those dirty 3rd parties stealing votes...

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    again, people were into him before what you deem the 'mania'. but obviously this is an exercise in futility.


    That works both ways, I'm sure you know.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    He's doing what is realistically possible for him. As I've already mentioned, he wouldn't even have ran if the Dems would have addressed these important issues that they simply chose not to. Once it was clear which was the nod was headed and what was being brought to the table, he decided to run.

    obvs you don't have to respond, but i'm curious as to why ralph nader and not, say, cynthia mckinney on behalf of the greens.

    http://www.runcynthiarun.org/ReconstructionManifesto
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'm implying that a very large percentage haven't, I know because of asking people about him. And also of the ones that know of him, many don't even know he's running this year. And of the ones that know he's running...many haven't heard what his stances on the issues include. Then there's the ones who feel fearing McCain is more important than voting their conscience.

    and on and on...

    then quite blaming the media and blame the voter and gasp! blame Nader...

    Nader has run for President a few times...and the same result each time...
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    then quite blaming the media and blame the voter and gasp! blame Nader...

    Nader has run for President a few times...and the same result each time...


    The media plays a huge part in getting people to become aware of the choices out there. You know this to be a fact but are ignoring it based on your support of Obama. People have to hear about a person before they can decide to support them.

    Running campaigns for president that the media ignores isn't going to change that fact.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    obvs you don't have to respond, but i'm curious as to why ralph nader and not, say, cynthia mckinney on behalf of the greens.

    http://www.runcynthiarun.org/ReconstructionManifesto

    I prefer Ralph's approach and his ability to fight uphill battles. He has proven himself quite capable in my eyes.

    McKinney can be over the top and is no where near as articulate a speaker as Ralph. She doesn't have the amount of accomplishments he does, among other things.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    The media plays a huge part in getting people to become aware of the choices out there. You know this to be a fact but are ignoring it based on your support of Obama. People have to hear about a person before they can decide to support them.

    Running campaigns for president that the media ignores isn't going to change that fact.

    I guess I could say your Nader-aid is effecting you, as well...

    I guess Nader has no blame here and voters who don't educate themselves are poor victims of the Media...

    Nader had plenty of face time in 2000....and nothing...some coverage in 2004...and nothing....here we are in 2008...and...
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    inmytree wrote:
    voters who don't educate themselves are poor victims of the Media...


    yep
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    I guess I could say your Nader-aid is effecting you, as well...

    I guess Nader has no blame here and voters who don't educate themselves are poor victims of the Media...

    Nader had plenty of face time in 2000....and nothing...some coverage in 2004...and nothing....here we are in 2008...and...


    Of course they should.

    Nader was not allowed in the debates in 2000, still reported as some fringe longshot by the media and yes, still even then, well under exposed by the media. He has never had the corporate money the Dems are able to get their grubby hands on. Why do you think campaigns ask for donations? So they can buy media time and sell themselves. It's a HUGE part of gaining support.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Danny Boy
    Danny Boy Posts: 161
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    The media plays a huge part in getting people to become aware of the choices out there. You know this to be a fact but are ignoring it based on your support of Obama. People have to hear about a person before they can decide to support them.

    Running campaigns for president that the media ignores isn't going to change that fact.

    I, like many, was first exposed to Obama when he delievered the keynote at the 2004 DNC. After I saw his speech, I told my dad that guy needed to run for president. I learned he had scribed a book and went out and bought it and motored through it voraciously. Spent a lot of time on his website long before the whisper of a presidential run surfaced and agreed with most of his legislation and speeches. I also think many of his proposals receive too scant attention based on his race and oratory abilities and go underappreciated or unnoticed.

    The media boom had nothing to do with my support for him and many people out there would echo my sentiments. Obama moved me much the same way Nader moves you and in some fashions using the media as the main antecedent for his poplularity diminishes the opinions and aspirations of people like me who did the research and threw their hats in the ring.
    Trading magic for fact, no tradebacks... So this is what it's like to be an adult...
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Danny Boy wrote:
    The media boom had nothing to do with my support for him and many people out there would echo my sentiments. Obama moved me much the same way Nader moves you and in some fashions using the media as the main antecedent for his poplularity diminishes the opinions and aspirations of people like me who did the research and threw their hats in the ring.

    yes, thank you. people are spending their free time in their neighborhoods, traveling around the state, and crossing state lines to talk to other people about him. and it's not because they saw him on the today show (i use that instead of cnn because i, like many others, do not have cable.).
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Danny Boy wrote:
    I, like many, was first exposed to Obama when he delievered the keynote at the 2004 DNC. After I saw his speech, I told my dad that guy needed to run for president. I learned he had scribed a book and went out and bought it and motored through it voraciously. Spent a lot of time on his website long before the whisper of a presidential run surfaced and agreed with most of his legislation and speeches. I also think many of his proposals receive too scant attention based on his race and oratory abilities and go underappreciated or unnoticed.

    The media boom had nothing to do with my support for him and many people out there would echo my sentiments. Obama moved me much the same way Nader moves you and in some fashions using the media as the main antecedent for his poplularity diminishes the opinions and aspirations of people like me who did the research and threw their hats in the ring.



    Where did you see this keynote speech, again? Most people saw it on TV
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    yes, thank you. people are spending their free time in their neighborhoods, traveling around the state, and crossing state lines to talk to other people about him. and it's not because they saw him on the today show (i use that instead of cnn because i, like many others, do not have cable.).


    It might be your reasoning or how you were exposed to him but it most definitely is the case for a rather large percentage.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    inmytree wrote:
    then quite blaming the media and blame the voter and gasp! blame Nader...

    Nader has run for President a few times...and the same result each time...


    I other thing I find weird about this whole exposure debate, is that Ralph Nader has been in the public eye since the 1960's whereas Obama has only been in the public eye for what maybe the last 5 years? I would think the near 40 years of public exposure would be enough to develop a decent voter following, so I am wondering why it hasn't. If after 40 years you can't build a decent amount of support, maybe you have to no one to blame but yourself.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    I other thing I find weird about this whole exposure debate, is that Ralph Nader has been in the public eye since the 1960's whereas Obama has only been in the public eye for what maybe the last 5 years? I would think the near 40 years of public exposure would be enough to develop a decent voter following, so I am wondering why it hasn't.


    That's EXACTLY my point.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Seems that if they don't report on something -or someone- they/it fades away.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Trust me... you'll have to look far and wide to find anyone that loves America more than me. And yes... America is flawed... and it's political system is a joke. But, right now... it's all we have. And yes, it's a choice between shit or crap... death by weed whacker or bolt cutters. But it comes down to who you believe will do the LEAST amount of harm to our nation. It's a terrible situation that we, as voters, help to perpetuate.
    ...
    And the change doesn't come from the White House... it comes from Congress. What americans need to do is fire their Representatives. If I had a 12% job approval rating... I'd be out of a job. But, we keep hiring these fools.. then, we complain about them.
    Voters need to send a message. Fire the incumbant... I don't care who is holding that seat... Senator Kennedy, Senator Feinstein, Senator McCain, Senator Clinton, Senator Obama and anyone currently in the House. Juist don't vote for any incumbant... vote for anyone else.
    I can guarantee you... that if this ever happens... just once... where the American voter finally says, "YOU ARE FIRED!!! NOW, GET THE HELL OUT!!!"... that's all it would take to make those fuckers shake in their shoes and get shit done. and it would reverberate all the way through the White House.


    to quote wayne coyne

    All we have is now -
    All we've ever had was now
    All we have is now
    All we'll ever have is now
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Danny Boy wrote:
    Congress has done a shitty job and hasn't carried out the will of the people. Even though Congress does create legislation, unless there's a working, veto-proof majority and conflicting leadership (Democratic Congress & Republican president), gridlock will continue to exist. If the Dems had enough votes to rule out the specter of a veto and the status quo was the same, I could understand the shithouse approval rating. The 2006 election was a demand from the voters to get the fuck out of Iraq and that has yet to materialize which will probably dictate more Republicans losing their seats.

    More independents in Congress is the recipe for improvement, imho ~ people who can vote on individual issues rather than along party lines.


    but the dems just rolled over! on the war, on wiretapping.....

    they may not have what it takes to override a veto but they have enough to filibuster instead of asking once and giving up
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Then, all you need is for others to join in and hack away, too.
    Count me in... except, my protest vote is going to write-in candidate, Stephen Colbert.


    the pocket colbert said to vote kucinich

    :D
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Well, I like to think people are voting on the individual and not a party. That is another huge problem. Why does there even need to be political parties?


    washington was against political parties as well
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    Or, We are trying to eliminate a mortal threat. When police feel their lives are in danger they shoot to kill, not injure to later take to prison and teach them their lesson. - a flawed example I'm sure, but it's my way of saying that I feel our way of life is being threatened and that the threat needs to be eliminated.

    I like your "You're FIRED!" post much better.

    I'm saddened when people say "It's too late." Sudden turn arounds happen. (Hello, Patriot Act) I say, hope and WORK for the best. At this time, the three mainstream candidates are not addressing my concerns enough to earn my vote - not even close. I will always vote for the candidate I feel is best for the country. Even if my candidate does not win, I hope he has enough impact for those who are in office to take a look at his policies and consider adopting more of them.

    .....

    You know, if we could all participate in a general strike, politicians and corporations alike would stop and listen. They ARE dependent upon us and we outnumber them.


    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q5wTaRYNhto

    There are better things
    to talk about
    Be constructive
    Bear witness
    We can use
    Be constructive
    with your blues

    Even when it's only
    warnings
    Even when you're talking
    war games......




    2 days!!!!!!!!
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way

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