Virginia Tech : Hindsight 20/20

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  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    And how come the people who use the "illegal things are hard to obtain" argument never think back to Prohibition?
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Staceb10 wrote:
    The local supermarket? I haven't seen any 9 millimeter glocks at my local grocers lately? This guy had two hours from the initial shootings before thinking "holy shit, I just killed two people so why don't I just aim for another 30!"

    Don't be silly.. you know what I mean by local supermarket.... Yeah.. he did have two hours from the intial killings but the damage was already done... he was in already in his 'carnage' mode..... Should he not have had a gun at his disposal, maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have happened that way.

    My question (among others) is.. how was he able to kill 2 people, wait two hours and go on a rampage without being stopped in those two hours...
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    reborncareerist wrote:
    And how come the people who use the "illegal things are hard to obtain" argument never think back to Prohibition?

    Again.. alcohol was there but not readily available for those who didn't plan/know..... My grampa knew.. he went to jail for it!
  • Staceb10
    Staceb10 Posts: 675
    redrock wrote:
    Don't be silly.. you know what I mean by local supermarket.... Yeah.. he did have two hours from the intial killings but the damage was already done... he was in already in his 'carnage' mode..... Should he not have had a gun at his disposal, maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have happened that way.

    My question (among others) is.. how was he able to kill 2 people, wait two hours and go on a rampage without being stopped in those two hours...

    He bought one of the guns at a shop five days prior so how do we know he didn't buy it for that purpose then? The two people were killed and the initial thought was that it was a domestic issue and it was over as the police were investigating. They didn't know who was responsible for the original murders so they couldn't have stopped him or known that he was going to his room to write some crazy note and then go massacre a bunch of other people.
  • Staceb10
    Staceb10 Posts: 675
    redrock wrote:
    Again.. alcohol was there but not readily available for those who didn't plan/know..... My grampa knew.. he went to jail for it!


    Your thinking on that is flawed. I can go to any city and find someone selling drugs on the street corner. Its riskier but it isn't impossible.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Staceb10 wrote:
    Your thinking on that is flawed. I can go to any city and find someone selling drugs on the street corner. Its riskier but it isn't impossible.
    Never said it was impossible, just more difficult.... You may know what a drug dealer looks like, which street corner to find him/her, how to approach this person and how to do the deal. But if you're not familiar with that it definitely requires more thought, time and maybe even guts because you are on unfamiliar territory. That goes for anything illegal...
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    Of course it is rare and unusual. If it weren't the papers, news broadcasts and message boards wouldn't have been dominated with reports, discussions and debates.

    Yeah, right! Do me a favour, and surprise me jeffbr. See if you can manage to post something that isn't completely meaningless?

    04-17-2007, 08:45 AM
    dunkman

    Angry America's grim school shooting history - a timeline

    April 2007: A gunman shoots dead at least 20 people at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia.

    October 2006: A 32-year-old gunman shoots dead at least five girls at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, before killing himself

    September 2006: Gunman in Colorado shoots and fatally wounds a teenage schoolgirl, then kills himself; two days later a teenager kills the headteacher of a school in Cazenovia, Wisconsin

    November 2005: Student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators

    March 2005: Minnesota schoolboy kills nine, then shoots himself

    May 2004: Four people injured in shooting at a school in Maryland

    April 2003: Teenager shoots dead head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, then kills himself

    March 2001: Pupil opens fire at a school in California, killing two students

    February 2000: Six-year-old girl shot dead by classmate in Michigan

    November 1999: Thirteen-year-old girl shot dead by a classmate in New Mexico

    May 1999: Student injures six pupils in shoot-out in Georgia

    April 1999: Two teenagers shoot dead 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine School in Colorado

    June 1998: Two adults hurt in shooting by teenage student at high school in Virginia

    May 1998: Fifteen-year-old boy shoots himself in the head after taking a girl hostage

    May 1998: Fifteen-year-old shoots dead two students in school cafeteria in Oregon

    April 1998: Fourteen-year-old shoots dead a teacher and wounds two students in Pennsylvania

    March 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, kill four girls and a teacher in Arkansas

    December 1997: Fourteen-year-old boy kills three students in Kentucky

    October 1997: Sixteen-year-old boy stabs mother, then shoots dead two students at school in Mississippi, injuring several others
    __________________
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    old and in the way wrote:
    Yes its unusual and yes it's rare in this or any society, what the hell are you thinking. Oh I forget!! you are hard wired to blame America first

    So gun crime in the U.S is a rarity is it? What the hell are you thinking? Oh I forget! You're not thinking, you're just spouting!
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Yeah, right! Do me a favour, and surprise me jeffbr. See if you can manage to post something that isn't completely meaningless?

    Each one is horrible and makes me sick. As I've said, one is too many.

    All of the shooters are lucky that have you to absolve them from any personal responsibility. And we are lucky as Americans that we have you to tell us how screwed up we are as a society. Now if you feel better about yourself, move along.

    I will continue to maintain that these are unusual events that are outside the norm.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Byrnzie wrote:
    So gun crime in the U.S is a rarity is it? What the hell are you thinking? Oh I forget! You're not thinking, you're just spouting!

    I'm pretty sure he wasn't generalizing to gun crime. Context may escape you, but I believe we're talking about mass killings in schools.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    I'm pretty sure he wasn't generalizing to gun crime. Context may escape you, but I believe we're talking about mass killings in schools.

    you're confusing yourself. Sit down, take a deep breath, and start again.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Staceb10 wrote:
    He bought one of the guns at a shop five days prior so how do we know he didn't buy it for that purpose then? The two people were killed and the initial thought was that it was a domestic issue and it was over as the police were investigating. They didn't know who was responsible for the original murders so they couldn't have stopped him or known that he was going to his room to write some crazy note and then go massacre a bunch of other people.

    that's still kinda fucked up though. 2 people get shot in a dorm, suspect number 1 is the ex-bf, and they don't even stop by HIS dorm to see what he was up to? i know they thought he fled the campus, but this is why you don't assume shit. esp not when you've got a distraught adolescent with a weapon of mass destruction.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    All of the shooters are lucky that have you to absolve them from any personal responsibility.

    Finding answers and/solutions to prevent such things reoccurring is not the same as absolving the perpetrators. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to grasp. I can type my posts in capitals if that will make it any easier for you?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    soulsinging wrote:
    that's still kinda fucked up though. 2 people get shot in a dorm, suspect number 1 is the ex-bf, and they don't even stop by HIS dorm to see what he was up to? i know they thought he fled the campus, but this is why you don't assume shit. esp not when you've got a distraught adolescent with a weapon of mass destruction.

    That's right. The authorities 'presumed' that it was a mere domestic incident.

    Presumption = a very dangerous thing.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    I'm pretty sure he wasn't generalizing to gun crime. Context may escape you, but I believe we're talking about mass killings in schools.

    Read the post of Dunkman's above. You obviously didn't do this the first time you decided to respond to it. Read it from top to bottom. Then point out which of the incidents of murder mentioned didn't occur on a school or college campus. You won't find one. Get it? This is why I posted it in response to your previous claim that gun crime on U.S campuses is a rarity.

    Oh, sorry! I'm America bashing. Therefore just discard everything I say.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Byrnzie wrote:
    you're confusing yourself. Sit down, take a deep breath, and start again.

    I know who is confused. Perhaps you need to go back and read for comprehension this time. You continue to see things which don't exist.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Byrnzie wrote:
    That's right. The authorities 'presumed' that it was a mere domestic incident.

    Presumption = a very dangerous thing.

    yeah, and even in that case, why would they not check the room of the other half of the domestic?
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Read the post of Dunkman's above. You obviously didn't do this the first time you decided to respond to it. Read it from to bottom. Then point out which of the incidents of murder mentioned didn't occur on a school or college campus. You won't find one. Get it? This is why I posted it in response to your previous claim that gun crime on U.S campuses is a rarity.

    Oh, sorry! I'm America bashing. Therefore just discard everything I say.


    I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    soulsinging wrote:
    yeah, and even in that case, why would they not check the room of the other half of the domestic?

    Yep. Definitely a major fuck-up by the look of things. If someone - anyone - is shot on a campus - under any circumstances - then there should be an immediate, total shut down of the place.
    I reckon someone's job's on the chopping board here.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.

    You were right above when you said that one is too many. However, I count 19 on Dunkman's list. This suggests to me that something isn't quite right somewhere.
    I'm not saying that America as a whole is to blame. I'm asking what is it about school/college life, or the school/college system in the U.S that may be partly to blame for this stuff. I could be wrong about it. I'm just probing. Some people on here have agreed with me. No-one has refuted my assumptions.
    So, i'm still asking questions. Sorry if that offends you!

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