The local supermarket? I haven't seen any 9 millimeter glocks at my local grocers lately? This guy had two hours from the initial shootings before thinking "holy shit, I just killed two people so why don't I just aim for another 30!"
Don't be silly.. you know what I mean by local supermarket.... Yeah.. he did have two hours from the intial killings but the damage was already done... he was in already in his 'carnage' mode..... Should he not have had a gun at his disposal, maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have happened that way.
My question (among others) is.. how was he able to kill 2 people, wait two hours and go on a rampage without being stopped in those two hours...
Don't be silly.. you know what I mean by local supermarket.... Yeah.. he did have two hours from the intial killings but the damage was already done... he was in already in his 'carnage' mode..... Should he not have had a gun at his disposal, maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have happened that way.
My question (among others) is.. how was he able to kill 2 people, wait two hours and go on a rampage without being stopped in those two hours...
He bought one of the guns at a shop five days prior so how do we know he didn't buy it for that purpose then? The two people were killed and the initial thought was that it was a domestic issue and it was over as the police were investigating. They didn't know who was responsible for the original murders so they couldn't have stopped him or known that he was going to his room to write some crazy note and then go massacre a bunch of other people.
Your thinking on that is flawed. I can go to any city and find someone selling drugs on the street corner. Its riskier but it isn't impossible.
Never said it was impossible, just more difficult.... You may know what a drug dealer looks like, which street corner to find him/her, how to approach this person and how to do the deal. But if you're not familiar with that it definitely requires more thought, time and maybe even guts because you are on unfamiliar territory. That goes for anything illegal...
Of course it is rare and unusual. If it weren't the papers, news broadcasts and message boards wouldn't have been dominated with reports, discussions and debates.
Yeah, right! Do me a favour, and surprise me jeffbr. See if you can manage to post something that isn't completely meaningless?
04-17-2007, 08:45 AM
dunkman
Angry America's grim school shooting history - a timeline
April 2007: A gunman shoots dead at least 20 people at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia.
October 2006: A 32-year-old gunman shoots dead at least five girls at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, before killing himself
September 2006: Gunman in Colorado shoots and fatally wounds a teenage schoolgirl, then kills himself; two days later a teenager kills the headteacher of a school in Cazenovia, Wisconsin
November 2005: Student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators
March 2005: Minnesota schoolboy kills nine, then shoots himself
May 2004: Four people injured in shooting at a school in Maryland
April 2003: Teenager shoots dead head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, then kills himself
March 2001: Pupil opens fire at a school in California, killing two students
February 2000: Six-year-old girl shot dead by classmate in Michigan
November 1999: Thirteen-year-old girl shot dead by a classmate in New Mexico
May 1999: Student injures six pupils in shoot-out in Georgia
April 1999: Two teenagers shoot dead 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine School in Colorado
June 1998: Two adults hurt in shooting by teenage student at high school in Virginia
May 1998: Fifteen-year-old boy shoots himself in the head after taking a girl hostage
May 1998: Fifteen-year-old shoots dead two students in school cafeteria in Oregon
April 1998: Fourteen-year-old shoots dead a teacher and wounds two students in Pennsylvania
March 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, kill four girls and a teacher in Arkansas
December 1997: Fourteen-year-old boy kills three students in Kentucky
October 1997: Sixteen-year-old boy stabs mother, then shoots dead two students at school in Mississippi, injuring several others
__________________
Yeah, right! Do me a favour, and surprise me jeffbr. See if you can manage to post something that isn't completely meaningless?
Each one is horrible and makes me sick. As I've said, one is too many.
All of the shooters are lucky that have you to absolve them from any personal responsibility. And we are lucky as Americans that we have you to tell us how screwed up we are as a society. Now if you feel better about yourself, move along.
I will continue to maintain that these are unusual events that are outside the norm.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
He bought one of the guns at a shop five days prior so how do we know he didn't buy it for that purpose then? The two people were killed and the initial thought was that it was a domestic issue and it was over as the police were investigating. They didn't know who was responsible for the original murders so they couldn't have stopped him or known that he was going to his room to write some crazy note and then go massacre a bunch of other people.
that's still kinda fucked up though. 2 people get shot in a dorm, suspect number 1 is the ex-bf, and they don't even stop by HIS dorm to see what he was up to? i know they thought he fled the campus, but this is why you don't assume shit. esp not when you've got a distraught adolescent with a weapon of mass destruction.
All of the shooters are lucky that have you to absolve them from any personal responsibility.
Finding answers and/solutions to prevent such things reoccurring is not the same as absolving the perpetrators. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to grasp. I can type my posts in capitals if that will make it any easier for you?
that's still kinda fucked up though. 2 people get shot in a dorm, suspect number 1 is the ex-bf, and they don't even stop by HIS dorm to see what he was up to? i know they thought he fled the campus, but this is why you don't assume shit. esp not when you've got a distraught adolescent with a weapon of mass destruction.
That's right. The authorities 'presumed' that it was a mere domestic incident.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't generalizing to gun crime. Context may escape you, but I believe we're talking about mass killings in schools.
Read the post of Dunkman's above. You obviously didn't do this the first time you decided to respond to it. Read it from top to bottom. Then point out which of the incidents of murder mentioned didn't occur on a school or college campus. You won't find one. Get it? This is why I posted it in response to your previous claim that gun crime on U.S campuses is a rarity.
Oh, sorry! I'm America bashing. Therefore just discard everything I say.
Read the post of Dunkman's above. You obviously didn't do this the first time you decided to respond to it. Read it from to bottom. Then point out which of the incidents of murder mentioned didn't occur on a school or college campus. You won't find one. Get it? This is why I posted it in response to your previous claim that gun crime on U.S campuses is a rarity.
Oh, sorry! I'm America bashing. Therefore just discard everything I say.
I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
yeah, and even in that case, why would they not check the room of the other half of the domestic?
Yep. Definitely a major fuck-up by the look of things. If someone - anyone - is shot on a campus - under any circumstances - then there should be an immediate, total shut down of the place.
I reckon someone's job's on the chopping board here.
I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
You were right above when you said that one is too many. However, I count 19 on Dunkman's list. This suggests to me that something isn't quite right somewhere.
I'm not saying that America as a whole is to blame. I'm asking what is it about school/college life, or the school/college system in the U.S that may be partly to blame for this stuff. I could be wrong about it. I'm just probing. Some people on here have agreed with me. No-one has refuted my assumptions.
So, i'm still asking questions. Sorry if that offends you!
I don't have a problem with screenings, waiting periods etc but that isn't going to prevent people from getting guns. Do you think if someone wanted to get a gun they'd have to do it in a store legally? Marijuana is illegal, cocaine is illegal..does that stop the purchase and use of either of them?
I see redrock got to that one before me and pretty much said my opinion on that matter. If you snap, the average person will not know where to go NOW to get a gun to mass kill. It’s the same with drugs… unless you use quite often or know somebody who does you don’t have instant access to a dealer. Many will not sell to those they don’t know anyway… unless it’s on the street. I also don’t have a problem with screenings and waiting periods and all that. I can’t see the necessity of having a gun in the house but to compromise I would still accept your right as an American to have one… I just think it should be harder to get and I also think there should possibly be a psychological assessment before you’re entitled to one.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Anyone can go crazy, even the most normal person. Guns are bad, they should be banned, thats the bottom line IMO.
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
Yet again, we need to make a distinction between what is normal or common and what is not. Any crime is NOT normal but a lot of them are common (muggings, etc.). What we are trying to say here is that as horrific and tragic these school shooting may be, when you have 2 a year for the past 10 years, it is no longer an unusual event. It is shocking every time... any violent crime is shocking every time it happens but why so much fuss about another school shooting? Because it is such a tragedy, we do not understand how, yet again, it can happen. Why haven't we learned from all the past shootings? What can be done? That's why it is debated and spoken about all over the place.. not because it is aberrent (because unfortunately, it is not) but because we can't understand why, and it is close to all of us.
I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
Recurring trends lead to normalization. Recurring = normalization.
didn't you freak out on me for posting a vid of troops getting killed in Iraq? something the news does not show, but which has definitely become a normal occurrence in Iraq? Perhaps you are dodging reality?
Normal: (as per dictionary.com)
- Conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
- Serving to establish a standard.
"Serving to establish a standard"
There you go... I take your argument and toss it in the poopie can...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
yes these shootings are shocking. i think what adds to this is the fact that outside home, students spend a big slab of time at school. they are seen as safe havens and very time one of these campus shootings takes place it feels even more of a violation. we send our kids to school to learn. not to die.
in the big scheme of crime yes i agree campus shootings are not normal occurrences. even in the big bad united states. it's a somewhat new phenomenon and it needs to be addressed with something more solid than platitudes and the defence of the bills of rights.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
All of the shooters are lucky that have you to absolve them from any personal responsibility.
where did you get this...?
there is no need to be so dramatic and so black and white...yes, those shooters were responsible for their actions...however, they would not be "shooters" if they did not have a gun...
perhaps it's time to take a look at an industry that produces items of which their main purpose is killing...
perhaps it's time to take a look at an industry that produces items of which their main purpose is killing...
But but but... I thought their main purpose is just target shooting? Ya know... recreational fun?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
didn't they think it was a murder - suicide at first in the dorm? Which explains why they wouldn't have locked down the entire campus, just that dorm.
im not saying lock the entire campus down, im saying you go to the supposed murderer's dorm and check it out. they say one gun was used in the attack. he had to have still had it with him. how do you have 2 people dead in a gun-related murder suicide with no gun?
Comments
Don't be silly.. you know what I mean by local supermarket.... Yeah.. he did have two hours from the intial killings but the damage was already done... he was in already in his 'carnage' mode..... Should he not have had a gun at his disposal, maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have happened that way.
My question (among others) is.. how was he able to kill 2 people, wait two hours and go on a rampage without being stopped in those two hours...
Again.. alcohol was there but not readily available for those who didn't plan/know..... My grampa knew.. he went to jail for it!
He bought one of the guns at a shop five days prior so how do we know he didn't buy it for that purpose then? The two people were killed and the initial thought was that it was a domestic issue and it was over as the police were investigating. They didn't know who was responsible for the original murders so they couldn't have stopped him or known that he was going to his room to write some crazy note and then go massacre a bunch of other people.
Your thinking on that is flawed. I can go to any city and find someone selling drugs on the street corner. Its riskier but it isn't impossible.
Yeah, right! Do me a favour, and surprise me jeffbr. See if you can manage to post something that isn't completely meaningless?
04-17-2007, 08:45 AM
dunkman
Angry America's grim school shooting history - a timeline
April 2007: A gunman shoots dead at least 20 people at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia.
October 2006: A 32-year-old gunman shoots dead at least five girls at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, before killing himself
September 2006: Gunman in Colorado shoots and fatally wounds a teenage schoolgirl, then kills himself; two days later a teenager kills the headteacher of a school in Cazenovia, Wisconsin
November 2005: Student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators
March 2005: Minnesota schoolboy kills nine, then shoots himself
May 2004: Four people injured in shooting at a school in Maryland
April 2003: Teenager shoots dead head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, then kills himself
March 2001: Pupil opens fire at a school in California, killing two students
February 2000: Six-year-old girl shot dead by classmate in Michigan
November 1999: Thirteen-year-old girl shot dead by a classmate in New Mexico
May 1999: Student injures six pupils in shoot-out in Georgia
April 1999: Two teenagers shoot dead 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine School in Colorado
June 1998: Two adults hurt in shooting by teenage student at high school in Virginia
May 1998: Fifteen-year-old boy shoots himself in the head after taking a girl hostage
May 1998: Fifteen-year-old shoots dead two students in school cafeteria in Oregon
April 1998: Fourteen-year-old shoots dead a teacher and wounds two students in Pennsylvania
March 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, kill four girls and a teacher in Arkansas
December 1997: Fourteen-year-old boy kills three students in Kentucky
October 1997: Sixteen-year-old boy stabs mother, then shoots dead two students at school in Mississippi, injuring several others
__________________
So gun crime in the U.S is a rarity is it? What the hell are you thinking? Oh I forget! You're not thinking, you're just spouting!
Each one is horrible and makes me sick. As I've said, one is too many.
All of the shooters are lucky that have you to absolve them from any personal responsibility. And we are lucky as Americans that we have you to tell us how screwed up we are as a society. Now if you feel better about yourself, move along.
I will continue to maintain that these are unusual events that are outside the norm.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't generalizing to gun crime. Context may escape you, but I believe we're talking about mass killings in schools.
you're confusing yourself. Sit down, take a deep breath, and start again.
that's still kinda fucked up though. 2 people get shot in a dorm, suspect number 1 is the ex-bf, and they don't even stop by HIS dorm to see what he was up to? i know they thought he fled the campus, but this is why you don't assume shit. esp not when you've got a distraught adolescent with a weapon of mass destruction.
Finding answers and/solutions to prevent such things reoccurring is not the same as absolving the perpetrators. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to grasp. I can type my posts in capitals if that will make it any easier for you?
That's right. The authorities 'presumed' that it was a mere domestic incident.
Presumption = a very dangerous thing.
Read the post of Dunkman's above. You obviously didn't do this the first time you decided to respond to it. Read it from top to bottom. Then point out which of the incidents of murder mentioned didn't occur on a school or college campus. You won't find one. Get it? This is why I posted it in response to your previous claim that gun crime on U.S campuses is a rarity.
Oh, sorry! I'm America bashing. Therefore just discard everything I say.
I know who is confused. Perhaps you need to go back and read for comprehension this time. You continue to see things which don't exist.
yeah, and even in that case, why would they not check the room of the other half of the domestic?
I get that every one of the incidents on that particular list occurred at school. Do you not get that these are shocking because they are not normal occurrences? For the 2nd straight day this has been THE topic of discussion here, on TV, on the radio, around the water cooler. That isn't the case because it is a normal occurrence. It is the case because it is shocking and unusual. But if you wish to believe that this is a normal, common occurrence here go for it.
Yep. Definitely a major fuck-up by the look of things. If someone - anyone - is shot on a campus - under any circumstances - then there should be an immediate, total shut down of the place.
I reckon someone's job's on the chopping board here.
You were right above when you said that one is too many. However, I count 19 on Dunkman's list. This suggests to me that something isn't quite right somewhere.
I'm not saying that America as a whole is to blame. I'm asking what is it about school/college life, or the school/college system in the U.S that may be partly to blame for this stuff. I could be wrong about it. I'm just probing. Some people on here have agreed with me. No-one has refuted my assumptions.
So, i'm still asking questions. Sorry if that offends you!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
Yet again, we need to make a distinction between what is normal or common and what is not. Any crime is NOT normal but a lot of them are common (muggings, etc.). What we are trying to say here is that as horrific and tragic these school shooting may be, when you have 2 a year for the past 10 years, it is no longer an unusual event. It is shocking every time... any violent crime is shocking every time it happens but why so much fuss about another school shooting? Because it is such a tragedy, we do not understand how, yet again, it can happen. Why haven't we learned from all the past shootings? What can be done? That's why it is debated and spoken about all over the place.. not because it is aberrent (because unfortunately, it is not) but because we can't understand why, and it is close to all of us.
Recurring trends lead to normalization. Recurring = normalization.
didn't you freak out on me for posting a vid of troops getting killed in Iraq? something the news does not show, but which has definitely become a normal occurrence in Iraq? Perhaps you are dodging reality?
Normal: (as per dictionary.com)
- Conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
- Serving to establish a standard.
"Serving to establish a standard"
There you go... I take your argument and toss it in the poopie can...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
yes these shootings are shocking. i think what adds to this is the fact that outside home, students spend a big slab of time at school. they are seen as safe havens and very time one of these campus shootings takes place it feels even more of a violation. we send our kids to school to learn. not to die.
in the big scheme of crime yes i agree campus shootings are not normal occurrences. even in the big bad united states.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
didn't they think it was a murder - suicide at first in the dorm? Which explains why they wouldn't have locked down the entire campus, just that dorm.
where did you get this...?
there is no need to be so dramatic and so black and white...yes, those shooters were responsible for their actions...however, they would not be "shooters" if they did not have a gun...
perhaps it's time to take a look at an industry that produces items of which their main purpose is killing...
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
sigh banning guns will only put guns into the hands of bad people.
im not saying lock the entire campus down, im saying you go to the supposed murderer's dorm and check it out. they say one gun was used in the attack. he had to have still had it with him. how do you have 2 people dead in a gun-related murder suicide with no gun?