Virginia Tech : Hindsight 20/20

69charger

News article from January 2006:

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

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Wonder if Larry Hincker has changed his tune after today?

All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

Sickening.

Will1659

The next right-winger who tries to accuse the gun-control crowd of playing politics with a tragedy can fuck off.

And as far as this...

69charger wrote:

All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

...maybe, maybe not, but how many people would have been dead in the interim because a bunch of drunken frat boys are now packing heat when they get all liquored up on Friday night and decide to go looking for trouble. You could MAYBE have fewer big, dramatic events like this, but I bet you'd have a lot more deaths one or two at a time in the long run.

soulsinging

69charger wrote:

Wonder if Larry Hincker has changed his tune after today?

All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

Sickening.

yeah, then we coulda had SEVERAL shooting when these college kids get drunk or offended by what their liberal professor is saying and blow their top and start shooting. that'd be a much better solution.

how about if this kid hadn't been able to buy a gun, he'd have stabbed one person, been disarmed, and would be in jail now?

69charger

soulsinging wrote:

yeah, then we coulda had SEVERAL shooting when these college kids get drunk or offended by what their liberal professor is saying and blow their top and start shooting. that'd be a much better solution.

Could've? When has this EVER happened? Never.

People who go through the trouble of getting a permit are far more responsible than you give them credit for.

Smellyman2

Damn. America is a scary enough place. If everyone was packing I don't think I would ever go outside.

mpg82

Concealed weapons could've prevented the events or may have provided the shooter with more ammo. I don't know. It's a tough call.

69charger

Smellyman wrote:

Damn. America is a scary enough place. If everyone was packing I don't think I would ever go outside.

When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.

gue_barium

69charger wrote:

When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.

Yeah, the Old West sure proves that to be true.

cincybearcat

Smellyman wrote:

Damn. America is a scary enough place. If everyone was packing I don't think I would ever go outside.

What's so scary?

69charger

gue_barium wrote:

Yeah, the Old West sure proves that to be true.

You mean Old West movies or do you have reliable crime stats from the 1800's?

blackredyellow

I'm a gun owner and had a carrying permit when I lived in Pennsylvania, and I think that letting college kids carry a conceled weapon is idiotic.

Between the drunken frat boys, roided up football players, wanna-be suburban gangsters, and the real gangsters, I'd rather take my chances with the one in billion odds that a nutjob will open fire in a classroom instead of one of the aformentioned people accidently or purposely shooting someone on a daily basis.

gue_barium

69charger wrote:

You mean Old West movies or do you have reliable crime stats from the 1800's?

I think it can be safely stated that many of the western boomtowns that sprang up in the 1800's had a much higher rate of gun-related violence than cities do now.

soulsinging

69charger wrote:

Could've? When has this EVER happened? Never.

People who go through the trouble of getting a permit are far more responsible than you give them credit for.

never, cos most people dont carry weapons around all the time and those that are so paranoid they feel they need one at all times are the ones that shouldn't be having one.

soulsinging

69charger wrote:

When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.

this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

cincybearcat

soulsinging wrote:

this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

I have never understood this argument either.

blackredyellow

soulsinging wrote:

this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

Yeah, you always see journals and statments that surface after one of these whackos get killed that they wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire or whatever, and for most of them it's just a suicide mission where they want to take as many people out as possible.

I don't see the outside chance that someone else in the room having a gun as a deterrent... if anything, someone shooting back would make it more fun for the psychos.

soulsinging

blackredyellow wrote:

Yeah, you always see journals and statments that surface after one of these whackos get killed that they wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire or whatever, and for most of them it's just a suicide mission where they want to take as many people out as possible.

I don't see the outside chance that someone else in the room having a gun as a deterrent... if anything, someone shooting back would make it more fun for the psychos.

it'd be like doom! that'd be awesome!

69charger

soulsinging wrote:

this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

Stats don't lie. Violent crime rates are noticably lower in CC states.

As for your hypothetical... They could have shot him after the first shot was fired. That' 32 more people alive.

soulsinging

69charger wrote:

Stats don't lie. Violent crime rates are noticably lower in CC states.

As for your hypothetical... They could have shot him after the first shot was fired. That' 32 more people alive.

today. and over the year before, that's 50 more people dead when the pi psi get too drunk and start shooting off the front porch over a game of cards. or the white suburbam wannabe gangbanger guns down his dealer to show he's a thug. or... i think you get the idea.

stats also don't show causation. the states that have CC have lower crime to begin with.

Cosmo

69charger wrote:

News article from January 2006:

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

---

Wonder if Larry Hincker has changed his tune after today?

All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

Sickening.

...
I take it, this guy hasn't heard of the 'Girls Gone Wild' videos. Yeah... I want a bimbo that'll take off her clothes in public or screw 4 guys for a damn t-shirt to be carrying around a loaded 9mm in the campus cafeteria.

jeffbr

soulsinging wrote:

stats also don't show causation. the states that have CC have lower crime to begin with.

The stats compare states pre and post CC. So there goes that argument.

I've tried to stay away from these threads all day. I've done this debate too many times on this board. But it is clear cut - state crimes rates decrease after CC laws are passed.