Virginia Tech : Hindsight 20/20

69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
edited April 2007 in A Moving Train
News article from January 2006:

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Wonder if Larry Hincker has changed his tune after today?

All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

Sickening.
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Comments

  • Will1659Will1659 Posts: 51
    The next right-winger who tries to accuse the gun-control crowd of playing politics with a tragedy can fuck off.

    And as far as this...
    69charger wrote:
    All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.
    ...maybe, maybe not, but how many people would have been dead in the interim because a bunch of drunken frat boys are now packing heat when they get all liquored up on Friday night and decide to go looking for trouble. You could MAYBE have fewer big, dramatic events like this, but I bet you'd have a lot more deaths one or two at a time in the long run.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    69charger wrote:
    Wonder if Larry Hincker has changed his tune after today?

    All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

    Sickening.

    yeah, then we coulda had SEVERAL shooting when these college kids get drunk or offended by what their liberal professor is saying and blow their top and start shooting. that'd be a much better solution.

    how about if this kid hadn't been able to buy a gun, he'd have stabbed one person, been disarmed, and would be in jail now?
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    yeah, then we coulda had SEVERAL shooting when these college kids get drunk or offended by what their liberal professor is saying and blow their top and start shooting. that'd be a much better solution.

    Could've? When has this EVER happened? Never.

    People who go through the trouble of getting a permit are far more responsible than you give them credit for.
  • Smellyman2Smellyman2 Posts: 689
    Damn. America is a scary enough place. If everyone was packing I don't think I would ever go outside.
  • mpg82mpg82 Posts: 83
    Concealed weapons could've prevented the events or may have provided the shooter with more ammo. I don't know. It's a tough call.
    6/26/98, 6/27/98, 06/13/99, 10/08/00, 6/18/03, 6/21/03, 6/29/06, 6/30/06, 5/7/10
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    Smellyman wrote:
    Damn. America is a scary enough place. If everyone was packing I don't think I would ever go outside.

    When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    69charger wrote:
    When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.

    Yeah, the Old West sure proves that to be true.

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    Smellyman wrote:
    Damn. America is a scary enough place. If everyone was packing I don't think I would ever go outside.


    What's so scary?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    gue_barium wrote:
    Yeah, the Old West sure proves that to be true.

    You mean Old West movies or do you have reliable crime stats from the 1800's?
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    I'm a gun owner and had a carrying permit when I lived in Pennsylvania, and I think that letting college kids carry a conceled weapon is idiotic.

    Between the drunken frat boys, roided up football players, wanna-be suburban gangsters, and the real gangsters, I'd rather take my chances with the one in billion odds that a nutjob will open fire in a classroom instead of one of the aformentioned people accidently or purposely shooting someone on a daily basis.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    69charger wrote:
    You mean Old West movies or do you have reliable crime stats from the 1800's?

    I think it can be safely stated that many of the western boomtowns that sprang up in the 1800's had a much higher rate of gun-related violence than cities do now.

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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    69charger wrote:
    Could've? When has this EVER happened? Never.

    People who go through the trouble of getting a permit are far more responsible than you give them credit for.

    never, cos most people dont carry weapons around all the time and those that are so paranoid they feel they need one at all times are the ones that shouldn't be having one.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    69charger wrote:
    When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.

    this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

    I have never understood this argument either.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

    Yeah, you always see journals and statments that surface after one of these whackos get killed that they wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire or whatever, and for most of them it's just a suicide mission where they want to take as many people out as possible.

    I don't see the outside chance that someone else in the room having a gun as a deterrent... if anything, someone shooting back would make it more fun for the psychos.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Yeah, you always see journals and statments that surface after one of these whackos get killed that they wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire or whatever, and for most of them it's just a suicide mission where they want to take as many people out as possible.

    I don't see the outside chance that someone else in the room having a gun as a deterrent... if anything, someone shooting back would make it more fun for the psychos.

    it'd be like doom! that'd be awesome!
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    this is bullshit. you think this guy was stable enough to rationally deliberate and go "hmmm, id like to massacre 30 people... but what if they shoot back? yeah, i guess i probly shouldn't do it."

    Stats don't lie. Violent crime rates are noticably lower in CC states.

    As for your hypothetical... They could have shot him after the first shot was fired. That' 32 more people alive.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    69charger wrote:
    Stats don't lie. Violent crime rates are noticably lower in CC states.

    As for your hypothetical... They could have shot him after the first shot was fired. That' 32 more people alive.

    today. and over the year before, that's 50 more people dead when the pi psi get too drunk and start shooting off the front porch over a game of cards. or the white suburbam wannabe gangbanger guns down his dealer to show he's a thug. or... i think you get the idea.

    stats also don't show causation. the states that have CC have lower crime to begin with.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    69charger wrote:
    News article from January 2006:

    Gun bill gets shot down by panel
    HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

    By Greg Esposito
    381-1675

    A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

    House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

    The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

    Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

    Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

    Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

    The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

    Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

    In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

    Wonder if Larry Hincker has changed his tune after today?

    All it would have taken is one student with a Concealed Carry Permit to have stopped this situation as soon as it started.

    Sickening.
    ...
    I take it, this guy hasn't heard of the 'Girls Gone Wild' videos. Yeah... I want a bimbo that'll take off her clothes in public or screw 4 guys for a damn t-shirt to be carrying around a loaded 9mm in the campus cafeteria.
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  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    stats also don't show causation. the states that have CC have lower crime to begin with.

    The stats compare states pre and post CC. So there goes that argument.

    I've tried to stay away from these threads all day. I've done this debate too many times on this board. But it is clear cut - state crimes rates decrease after CC laws are passed.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I take it, this guy hasn't heard of the 'Girls Gone Wild' videos. Yeah... I want a bimbo that'll take off her clothes in public or screw 4 guys for a damn t-shirt to be carrying around a loaded 9mm in the campus cafeteria.

    That would be SOOOOOO HOT! :D
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    jeffbr wrote:
    The stats compare states pre and post CC. So there goes that argument.

    I've tried to stay away from these threads all day. I've done this debate too many times on this board. But it is clear cut - state crimes rates decrease after CC laws are passed.

    I don't have a problem with concealed carry laws for the most part, but I strongly disagree with the point of this thread that CC should be allowed on a college campus. I just think that it's a recipe for disaster.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    I don't have a problem with concealed carry laws for the most part, but I strongly disagree with the point of this thread that CC should be allowed on a college campus. I just think that it's a recipe for disaster.

    Why? What if it were extended to properly trained faculty only? Wouldn't that be better than being totally defenseless?
  • Kid pulls out gun in class pretends to shoot everyone while his classmates laugh...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i0Gww3HSXY
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  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    I don't have a problem with concealed carry laws for the most part, but I strongly disagree with the point of this thread that CC should be allowed on a college campus. I just think that it's a recipe for disaster.

    Yeah, I'm not going to argue in favor of that. I was simply correcting a possible misconception about the stats.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    69charger wrote:
    Why? What if it were extended to properly trained faculty only? Wouldn't that be better than being totally defenseless?
    Having armed security wouldn't be a bad idea, but I don't like the CC idea.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jeffbr wrote:
    The stats compare states pre and post CC. So there goes that argument.

    I've tried to stay away from these threads all day. I've done this debate too many times on this board. But it is clear cut - state crimes rates decrease after CC laws are passed.

    the states enacting concealed carry do not have the same problems inner cities do. you're talking mostly about rural areas where most gun owners ARE responsible. but this is america. it's a huge and diverse nation. you cannot apply a one size fits all designation to all of it when it comes to something like guns. it might be fine for ohio, but i cannot see it being a good thing for chicago or nyc. and i certainly don't think it's a good idea to have a bunch of hormonal, horny, liquored up college kids packing heat on campus. when the fuck did this ever become anyone's idea of wise policy?
  • bookmusebookmuse Posts: 277
    I have never understood this argument either.


    Ditto here. Look at all the irrational things that occur because people are so stressed out-road rage, bar fights, spousal and child abuse, shit just arguements in the grocery lines or while Christmas shopping at wal Mart on the day after Thanksgiving, etc...not to mention all the depression, substance abuse and other mental heath issues and pain many people suffer-there are a lot of people out there a inch from going over the edge.


    Let's just have everyone have a gun to make it a safer society :rolleyes:

    And yes, criminals will find a way to get guns no matter what but easier access to guns can lead to this tragedy and make it easier for the the 51 year old Wisconsin man in the midst of a divorce kill his two kids and himself.
    "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes" ~ M Kuhn
  • 69charger wrote:
    When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.

    Yeah, just like how the death penalty deters people from committing violent crimes...

    Another consideration: Let's say that there were a handful of students with guns in a room when the police kicked down the door. Things happen fast, everyone's shitting themselves with fear and sweating adrenaline, no one knows exactly what's going on, maybe the cops don't have a physical description on the suspect... yeah, that's a situation where you want everyone in the room to have semiautomatic handguns.

    I'll admit that I'm pretty idelogically biased, but for the life of me, I have no idea how anyone could believe that more people with guns would have made this tragic situation end any better.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    69charger wrote:
    When everyone is packing it is a much safer place to be. Criminals have no idea who is carrying and are less likely to comit violent crime.


    thats not true.. if you knew anything about the person in your sig and his organisation then you'd realise that.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
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