Ahhh Captalism

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  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You haven't actually explained your decisions or free-will.

    All you have said is "I make the choice" I asked why you make different choices and you said "God and Love" and then you said that there would be variation in those who look to "God and Love" because of free-will.

    So basically what you are saying is that there is never a cause for your decisions. You didn't buy that MP3 player because it had more features, or a cheaper price. You didn't take that job because it offered you more bennefits or a greater salary. You didn't rent that car because of it's gas mileage. You have free-will, so your decisions are without cause.

    You don't feel attracted to beautiful women, and you certainly wouldn't use attractivness to affect your dating preferences. In-fact your dating preferences are completely without cause and you choose who to date based entirely on nothing but free-will. No variables affect your decisions except your own free-will.

    That is what you are saying to me. If you had the choice between two very nice women, but one was ugly and the other was gorgeous, you would choose the gorgeous one. That is because your decisions are caused! In that particular example, your decision would be caused by the visual stimulus the options had to offer. All of your decisions are made based on their merits and the predictable outcomes of your decisions weighed with your moral values you've obtained through a history of reinforcement.
    Ahnimus sometimes I can't help but to believe that you read like others talk. That is, at the expense of listening and learning.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    do it for a living, but do you know how it works?
    do I know how what works? the market movement? no one does. its all educated gambling. market does whatever the hell it wants.
    Abuskedti wrote:
    if the price is $50 right now - how many shares can I buy for $50?
    is this a hypothetical? you can buy as many shares as you want from someone who is willing to sell at 50. for every buyer there is a seller.
    Abuskedti wrote:
    of I buy up all the shares available for $50 and then next guy willing to sell wants $55 how fast does it go up to $55
    if you say sold. the price is now 55
    Abuskedti wrote:
    after I buy them up - and noone else is willing to sell at all- what happens to the price in the next hour? next week?
    are these serious questions?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    Ahnimus sometimes I can't help but to believe that you read like others talk. That is, at the expense of listening and learning.

    When you have something for me to learn, I'll listen.

    Right now you are just going around in circles.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Ahnimus wrote:
    When you have something for me to learn, I'll listen.

    Right now you are just going around in circles.

    And actually SD, maybe you should be the one listening and learning. I've spent the last two years on this topic.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do I know how what works? the market movement? no one does. its all educated gambling. market does whatever the hell it wants.

    I guess you use educated loosely.. millions play - all educated differently

    is this a hypothetical? you can buy as many shares as you want from someone who is willing to sell at 50. for every buyer there is a seller.

    But my question was.. if the big board says $50 how many can I buy (it may be very limited yes?) we really don't know

    if you say sold. the price is now 55

    But I ask about before it is sold... It was $50... now it doesn't really jump up to the next higest offered price... what if nobody wants to sell right now.. wouldn't it go up incrementally - at $51 maybe someone would change their mind.. its it one penny at a time? is it .001% at a tiime? and what time? are there updates once a minute? does that change from stock to stock?

    are these serious questions?

    of course they are serious questions.. this is serious business.. this is how American's make their decisions on just about all issues.

    But I guess since you said nobody knows, you are at least qualified to report that you don't know, nor does anyone you have come into contact with.

    I don't quite get why, from that position, you'd suggest that I didn't know shit.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    do I know how what works? the market movement? no one does. its all educated gambling. market does whatever the hell it wants.

    I guess you use educated loosely.. millions play - all educated differently

    is this a hypothetical? you can buy as many shares as you want from someone who is willing to sell at 50. for every buyer there is a seller.

    But my question was.. if the big board says $50 how many can I buy (it may be very limited yes?) we really don't know

    if you say sold. the price is now 55

    But I ask about before it is sold... It was $50... now it doesn't really jump up to the next higest offered price... what if nobody wants to sell right now.. wouldn't it go up incrementally - at $51 maybe someone would change their mind.. its it one penny at a time? is it .001% at a tiime? and what time? are there updates once a minute? does that change from stock to stock?

    are these serious questions?

    of course they are serious questions.. this is serious business.. this is how American's make their decisions on just about all issues.

    But I guess since you said nobody knows, you are at least qualified to report that you don't know, nor does anyone you have come into contact with.

    I don't quite get why, from that position, you'd suggest that I didn't know shit.
    according to this very confusing reply, yes, I will conclude you dont know shit about the markets.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    according to this very confusing reply, yes, I will conclude you dont know shit about the markets.

    you could learn alot with little reading.. its really not complicated at all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    you could learn alot with little reading.. its really not complicated at all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market

    :D:D:D dude I work in the markets everyday. and you give me a wiki on the stock market? WTF ??? :confused:
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    :D:D:D dude I work in the markets everyday. and you give me a wiki on the stock market? WTF ??? :confused:

    I know I know, but you don't understand how they work.

    You may buy and sell, you may give advice.. but none of that requires that you understand how they work.

    Thats the beauty of this market..

    A very key ingredient for example is consumer confidence ... What do you know about that? Sure you may know the trends for the past 100 years.. but how much if any of that is relevant in 2007?

    How much different are things today than 5 years ago.. nevermind the 50 to 100 years ago when these traditions developed.

    How many millionaires can the United States support? there is only so much ocean front property..

    what about natural resources.. water.. land.. food ...

    what about population growth..

    what about years and years of creative accounting... and very clever criminals within some of these comanies..

    What do you really know about the market? Do you know some important people that actually trade on the floor at the New York Stock exchange?

    how much do they know about these markets?

    What does Barnanke? What does he know.. is he the guy balancing all those spinning dinner plates on long poles?

    What do you know?

    what laws are going to change? What deals are being made? what information can be trusted?

    What exactly do you know?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I have no idea what you are getting at
  • JamMastaE
    JamMastaE Posts: 444
    spiral out wrote:
    Thats not going to happen it will go down but it will come back up it's happening everywhere not just america.


    i wish you were right,but your not.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain


    "I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
    Emiliano Zapata
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    JamMastaE wrote:
    i wish you were right,but your not.

    put your money where your mouth is. if you are 100% sure, open an account on a trading site such as this...

    https://us.etrade.com/e/t/home?SC=NPNRR26&WT.mc_id=NPNRR26&WT.srch=1

    or

    http://www.scottrade.com/

    or

    http://www.schwab.com/


    "short" (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp) all the money you have on this..

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=QQQQ

    Nasdaq symbol QQQQ



    you are 100% correct the market is going to crash. you can make millions. I am dead serious. Let's see if you walk the walk.
  • JamMastaE
    JamMastaE Posts: 444
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yes and no. the markets will correct themselves from this credit mess. and the markets will also see extreme volatility, like seen today. today was one the of craziest days I have ever seen.

    the fundamentals are still strong however. and we would need to down over 1000 points more for the market to go into a recession, I dont see that happening at all.

    the market is going to crash,the fed is keeping it afloat with money they print out of thin air with no gold backing making it worthless,that causes the inflation to soar and with America's manufacturing gone over seas we have no way to over come the inflation bubble that will eventually burst.period.

    oh yeah most of you probably don't know the federal reserve is a private bank and was set up to rob this country a long time ago.

    http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain


    "I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
    Emiliano Zapata
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    surferdude wrote:
    I determine my life. It's my choice to be who I am. I stopped blaming others a long time ago. In other words I grew up. Taking responsibility for my actions is a little overwhelming at times but is more than paid back by enjoying my actions. I refuse to live my life by your life limiting paradigm. I'm sorry that you can't accept the truth.

    What??!! You mean your life isn't chosen for you by the lies and deceptions that government brainwashes you with? ;)
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I have no idea what you are getting at

    You don't have to be an engineer to sell cars. You don't have to understand the world's economy and to sell mutual funds.

    The United States economy grew like crazy in the last 200 years..

    We've used up much of the new frontier - we've played that hand and did very very well..

    The next 200 will be much much different... Do know what is in store for the next 10?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    You don't have to be an engineer to sell cars. You don't have to understand the world's economy and to sell mutual funds.

    The United States economy grew like crazy in the last 200 years..

    We've used up much of the new frontier - we've played that hand and did very very well..

    The next 200 will be much much different... Do know what is in store for the next 10?

    probably similar to this..

    http://www.neatideas.com/data/data/GDP.htm

    http://www.neatideas.com/gdp.htm

    with steady population growth, all those people are going to bring something to the table right?
    http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/natproj.html

    but since we conquered the west, its all downhill :confused:
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    probably similar to this..

    http://www.neatideas.com/data/data/GDP.htm

    http://www.neatideas.com/gdp.htm

    with steady population growth, all those people are going to bring something to the table right?
    http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/natproj.html

    but since we conquered the west, its all downhill :confused:

    that is what I figured and all things being equal that would be a good bet. but these models don't really apply anymore

    I don't know, the larger population will be taking from the table too... there is limited resources...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    that is what I figured and all things being equal that would be a good bet. but these models don't really apply anymore

    I don't know, the larger population will be taking from the table too... there is limited resources...

    now you are speakin my language. you are 100% correct, there are limited resources.

    but I think you are underestimating the power of innovation and entrepreneurship. ya know, something that capitalism allows and encourages.
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Well, fuck then there seems to be an awful lot of lazy phenomologicol determinism here on teh Gold Coast, cos ther are a lot of of lazy cunts who energetically go surfing every day as an alternative eto a productive job, and teh live on socialist handouts provided by a capitalist economy while requiring substance support to keep them eternally happy in teh short but necessary periods when they need to stop surfing, or when it is flat.
    I'm thinknig that the markets are gonna fall a bit, and housing prices are gonna come down, as our mortgage rate goes up, mainly to insure the lendersd against the loan defaults that have nothing to do with the non-defaulting borrowers.
    I don't think tht home prices will come down too much on most markets her, cos population pressure is at least as big a driver as low rates were.
    Either way, I'm glad at this point that my retirement fund is entirely liquid, and is not up to it's nuts in either market.
    I'm gonna buy more guitars with it.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    well that didnt last long.


    capitalism isnt making me rich or poor. it makes me happy. I am able to get a job and start my own business.

    your first statement is the biggest crock of shit. laziness makes people poor. not rich people.

    Did you have a middle class upbringing? As i think your view is very different to that of a person born into a poor family.

    Rich people do indeed make people poor by not paying enough for lower paid jobs, because they want fatter profits each year and for what? how many houses and cars do you need? It's pure greed in my opinion.

    If minimum wage was about double here everyone could live a little more comfortably.

    I myself am living comfortably as i am lucky enough to have a skilled job. But that doesn't make me think that all the poor people are lazy because they don't.

    And infact where would you be without those people to serve you in burger king or whatever? Those jobs are needed and it is just fact that not everyone can climb there way up the ladder.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.

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