Hello from Israel

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  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    PaperPlates wrote:
    thank you for the perspective. Please dont confuse what alot of people here think of your country and its situation with the opinions of the MAJORITY of americans. You have entered the realm of the lunatic fringe. We stand behind you. Always have, always will. Peace be with you.

    A MAJORITY of Americans are idiots...

    Anyhow what I dont understand is why the Beirut airport was bombed if this was over hostages. It seems aggresive and almost as if your country is provoking further war.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • VivaPalestina
    VivaPalestina Posts: 225
    WHERE THE FUCK IS THE HELLO FROM GAZA?

    The israelis have fucking bombed their electricity company, bombed their bridges, they are preventing UN containers from going in and providing supplies. A jewish human rights group of doctors are trying to enter Gaza, but can't, BUT FUCKING SHIRAZ IS POSTING ON HIS COMPUTER, HOW MUCH DANGER CAN SHE BE IN...SORRY IF I HAVE NO FUCKING SYMPATHY, BUT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN GAZA WHO CAN'T FUCKING GET FOOD AND WATER, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED, DECAPITATED AND MAIMED.
  • The Illinoisemakers
    The Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    Jammin909 wrote:
    A MAJORITY of Americans are idiots...

    Anyhow what I dont understand is why the Beirut airport was bombed if this was over hostages. It seems aggresive and almost as if your country is provoking further war.

    Becuase they don't want the captured soldiers to be put in planes and flown off to Syria or Iran, much like an Israeli pilot was in the 70s and never heard from again.
  • hailhailkc
    hailhailkc Posts: 582
    even flow? wrote:
    So neither Palestine nor Israel ever existed. Odd that is! I will have to remember this the next time the ole "Palestine wasn't ever on any maps", to include Israel on that.

    Glad you called people out. Maybe the original poster has blood lust creating a profile and tossing one post into a thread and then not returning to back up his so called story of events.

    Palestine is a region...it's never been a country. Map? Yes. Country? No.
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  • Carlos D
    Carlos D Posts: 638
    shiraz wrote:
    Sorry, I missed that. About the prisoners: The US sentenced a terrorist to life time in prison not too long ago, Israel did the same thing with other terrorists that did much more than just planing things. Either way, they could have negotiated with Israel's gov. After all, they are claiming to be diplomats / politicians...

    Exactly.
    It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

    www.bebo.com/pearljam06
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    shiraz wrote:
    Sorry, I missed that. About the prisoners: The US sentenced a terrorist to life time in prison not too long ago, Israel did the same thing with other terrorists that did much more than just planing things. Either way, they could have negotiated with Israel's gov. After all, they are claiming to be diplomats / politicians...


    you still didn't answer inmytree's question as to *where* it happened

    you said they went into israeli territory and did this, he posted something claiming israel went into lebanon territory and that is where it all took place.
    Originally Posted by shiraz
    The hezbollah crossed the northern board, went *into Israel*, killed 7 soliders, kidnapped 2 more, went back to lebanon & started massive shooting towards civilians targets in Israel *for no reason*.
    OriginallyPosted by inmytree
    I saw a news story from Lebanon TV and the leader of Hezbollah stated they felt they had no other choice, their "natural right", because Isreal is holding many prisoners...and that Israel refused to discuss the release of the prisoners...is there truth to that, the prisoner stuff....

    the news story also stated the two soliders were captured after the soliders entered Lebanon to look for the kidnapped solider taken a couple of weeks ago...

    http://www.linktv.org/mosaic/streamsArchive/

    Please note: I'm not talking sides, I'm just curious...
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    London Calling wrote:
    If Irish terrorists did the same to the UK, do you think the UK would just fire some missiles into Ireland. Dont kid yourself buddy, you aint all that innocent, if you think firing into Lebanon is then ok, then you are part of the problem, and you support a fucked up governement, hence why nothing i getting solved over there.
    Again, another person that knows me so well and to think i'm inexperienced in these situations. My friend i was in Afghanistan, before any foreign troops arrived, trying to keep some sort of medical infrastructure going so dont lecture about warzones.

    Seriously? Irish terrorists don't threaten the very existence of the UK. Hezbollah has the luxury of being able to regroup after a loss. Israel cannot afford to lose once.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    shiraz wrote:
    Sorry, I missed that. About the prisoners: The US sentenced a terrorist to life time in prison not too long ago, Israel did the same thing with other terrorists that did much more than just planing things. Either way, they could have negotiated with Israel's gov. After all, they are claiming to be diplomats / politicians...

    with all due respect, what does the above have to do with my question...? From the report I viewed, the leader of Hezbollah stated many of the prisoners have been in prison for many years, I think he said 20....and that Israel would not negotiate with them...

    and there seems to be some confusion about exactly where the soldiers were when they were taken...I was hoping you could clear that up...

    since you are in Israel...
  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    Jammin909 wrote:
    A MAJORITY of Americans are idiots...

    Anyhow what I dont understand is why the Beirut airport was bombed if this was over hostages. It seems aggresive and almost as if your country is provoking further war.

    Maybe so they couldnt fly the hostages to...ohhhh idk.......syria..........or IRAN?
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • rightondude
    rightondude Posts: 745
    Middle east....the new KKK'ers wet dreamsicle...
  • VivaPalestina
    VivaPalestina Posts: 225
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Palestine is a region...it's never been a country. Map? Yes. Country? No.

    Country and region are the same, what do you call a region with its own name, inhabitants, currency, borders, etc.? A country.

    "Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics - including its name in Arabic, Filastin - became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance... In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic... Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine...– Edward Said, The Question of Palestine
  • Scubascott
    Scubascott Posts: 815
    shiraz wrote:
    Sorry, I missed that. About the prisoners: The US sentenced a terrorist to life time in prison not too long ago, Israel did the same thing with other terrorists that did much more than just planing things. Either way, they could have negotiated with Israel's gov. After all, they are claiming to be diplomats / politicians...

    Hi Shiraz and everyone. I haven't been around these boards for a long time. I knew that the latest news from Israel always sparks a stupid debate full of insults and name calling, so I just came over out of curiousity to see if anything intelligent had been said this time.

    I spent some time in Israel recently, and I have a lot of friends there, some of whom have family in the Golan and upper Galilee, so I've been a bit concerned for their safety over the last couple of days.

    I'm really sorry to hear about your city being attacked. I got a little taste of what its like to be scared like that while I was there, and I can only imagine what it feels like to be living with that fear all the time.

    I've never been one to take sides in this conflict. I've heard the story from both sides, and I really think that both sides are as much to blame as each other. The media in Israel is extremely biased against both the palestinians and the Hezbollah, as might be expected.

    Whether or not the Hezbollah would have ever considered negotiating with the Israeli government I don't know, but it seems to me to be irrelevant. As far Olmert and his government is concerned the Hezbollah are a terrorist organisation which therefore can not be negotiated with. One of the biggest problems seems to be that the Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option, but instead prefers to use force.

    Anyway, no matter which side you want to take, remember that civilians like Shiraz didn't ask for this to happen, and the reality is that their lives are being threatend, so give her some slack.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • melodious
    melodious Posts: 1,719
    purrmo wrote:
    WHERE THE FUCK IS THE HELLO FROM GAZA?

    The israelis have fucking bombed their electricity company, bombed their bridges, they are preventing UN containers from going in and providing supplies. A jewish human rights group of doctors are trying to enter Gaza, but can't, BUT FUCKING SHIRAZ IS POSTING ON HIS COMPUTER, HOW MUCH DANGER CAN SHE BE IN...SORRY IF I HAVE NO FUCKING SYMPATHY, BUT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN GAZA WHO CAN'T FUCKING GET FOOD AND WATER, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED, DECAPITATED AND MAIMED.
    out of sight; out of mind
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    "War will never cease until babies begin to come into the world with larger cerebrums and smaller adrenal glands." — H. L. Mencken
  • hailhailkc
    hailhailkc Posts: 582
    purrmo wrote:
    Country and region are the same, what do you call a region with its own name, inhabitants, currency, borders, etc.? A country.

    "Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics - including its name in Arabic, Filastin - became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance... In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic... Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine...– Edward Said, The Question of Palestine

    No, they aren't the same thing. The United States of America is a country. The "midwest" is a region.

    The Palestinians speak the same language, follow the same religion, manifest the same culture and eat the same cuisine as all other Arabs. They are really Arabs who happen to live in a region called Palestine. Palestine is not – and never was – the name of a country.

    It is the name of a region – just like Siberia is a region, not a country. There is no Siberian country, nor is there a Siberian people. It is a region. Just like the Sahara is a region, not a country. There is no Saharan country, nor is there a Saharan people. The Arabs living in that region are Libyans, Moroccans, etc. It is a region.

    Because Palestine is a region, not a country, England was able to carve out half of it and give it to the Arabs living on the other side of the Jordan River and call it the kingdom of Jordan. Because Palestine is a region, the United Nations was able to divide the rest of it between the Jews and the Arabs living there. Had the Arabs accepted the United Nations resolution, there would have been a newly created Arab state called Palestine. Instead, they rejected the United Nations compromise and went to war to destroy Israel. They lost the war. Hence, no Palestinian state.
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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    hailhailkc wrote:
    No, they aren't the same thing. The United States of America is a country. The "midwest" is a region.

    The Palestinians speak the same language, follow the same religion, manifest the same culture and eat the same cuisine as all other Arabs. They are really Arabs who happen to live in a region called Palestine. Palestine is not – and never was – the name of a country.

    It is the name of a region – just like Siberia is a region, not a country. There is no Siberian country, nor is there a Siberian people. It is a region. Just like the Sahara is a region, not a country. There is no Saharan country, nor is there a Saharan people. The Arabs living in that region are Libyans, Moroccans, etc. It is a region.

    Because Palestine is a region, not a country, England was able to carve out half of it and give it to the Arabs living on the other side of the Jordan River and call it the kingdom of Jordan. Because Palestine is a region, the United Nations was able to divide the rest of it between the Jews and the Arabs living there. Had the Arabs accepted the United Nations resolution, there would have been a newly created Arab state called Palestine. Instead, they rejected the United Nations compromise and went to war to destroy Israel. They lost the war. Hence, no Palestinian state.

    So because it was not a country, the people living there were supposed to give up the land they lived on because another groups religion says so? It seems to me they didn't think Palestine should exist or only exist on their terms.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ilana
    ilana Posts: 78
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    So because it was not a country, the people living there were supposed to give up the land they lived on because another groups religion says so? It seems to me they didn't think Palestine should exist or only exist on their terms.
    the original idea was, that where ever the jews where a majority in israel would be the israeli state and where the arabs would be a majority would be an arab state
    bet arabs never miss and oppotunity to miss an opotunity
    damn right, has not does not and should never exist, the arabs have 22 states including jorden (wich is a palastinian state) they dont nead the tiny strip of land called israel
    jews living in arab lands where expelled had thire property confiscated, becouse the arab group religion said so
  • Puck78
    Puck78 Posts: 737
    In the middle of all these endless reasoning if palestine is a state or not, inoocent civilians are deprived of their basic human rights. In both the sides. So, a bit of more open and brave negotiations would be better, instead than continuous closing in respective positions.
    www.amnesty.org
    www.amnesty.org.uk
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    An article from someone there on the ground....


    Bombing and Denying: Israel's Strategy
    by Bashir Abu-Manneh
    July 12, 2006


    Being in Israel these days is as strange as ever: an Israeli military machine that kills Palestinians daily is wedded to a society that denies their humanity daily. The more Israel punishes Palestinians, destroys their basic infrastructure, eradicates their social institutions, terrorizes them, and forces them to live in fear and despair, the more the Israeli elite and its fourth strongest army in the world obsesses over a primitive Palestinian-made short-range rocket like the "Qassam" (which causes minimal damage and is far from a serious threat to life or property) or a "mastermind of terror" like exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshal; breeds doubt over (or, outrightly denies) the Israeli army's killing of scores of families in Gaza; legitimizes the illegal arrest of tens of democratically-elected Palestinian representatives and officials; and presents Palestinians as a nation of terrorists who seek to eradicate Israel. In a colonial twist of logic, Israel accuses Palestinians of wanting to do to them the exact same things that Israel itself is routinely and systematically doing to the Palestinians: destroying their society, denying their national and democratic rights, and dehumanizing them.



    For Israel, then, to be Palestinian today is to be subhuman. Racism is thus endemic to present Israeli politics and society. The current conception of Israeli nationhood is premised on the notion that Israeli-Jews are superior human beings. They deserve all the rights and privileges that are systematically denied to others. And from this stems the current conception of Israeli security, which is also particularist to the extreme: in order for Israelis to be safe and secure, Palestinians have to live in a state of permanent occupation, insecurity and fear. Military might, expansionism, and war have been Israel's routine instruments for achieving these ends. Israeli politics has therefore never seriously contemplated the option that Israeli peace and security should be premised on the notion of Palestinian security, freedom, and independence. In a colonial society like Israel, then, universal notions of equality and mutuality are sadly absent. And for this the Israeli elite is mainly responsible. In order to safeguard its own colonial privileges in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, it has forced Israeli society to live in what Israeli sociologist Avishai Ehrlich has aptly called 'a permanent war society,' premised on the construction of Arabs and Palestinians as national enemies.* War and occupation are thus not only means of crushing and denying Palestinian national rights of self-determination, but also serve a clear domestic purpose. They are instruments of Israeli self-fashioning: militarizing Israeli society is necessary for the continued domestic domination of Israeli colonial practices. Israeli society is ceaselessly indoctrinated into believing that it exists in a permanent state of existential conflict with the Palestinians, and this in order for the Israeli elite to meet and realize its colonial policies and objectives of land expropriation and expansion (militarizing Israeli society is also a necessary precondition for acting as US watchdog and for serving American imperial interests in the region). One important outcome of such a sustained aggressive agenda is that Israel has become, as Gideon Levy has put it recently in Haaretz (26 March 2006), 'one racist nation.' There is not one Jewish political party in the Knesset, he concluded before the Israeli elections, which believes that Palestinians are equal human beings or equal partners in peace. Such racism can also be gauged in the tragic absence of an Israeli popular peace camp today: not one mass demonstration was organized in Israel to protest the endless shelling of civilians in Gaza in the last two weeks. Popular dissent is clearly absent among Israelis. Even though a significant majority of them (60%) do support the release of Palestinians prisoners in exchange for the captured Israeli soldier (as Hamas has offered), their position remains passive and paralyzed. Those demonstrations which did take place in Israel to protest army brutality in Gaza were either spontaneous minority expressions of outrage (like the recent one in front of the home of the Israeli army's Chief of Staff Dan Halutz in Tel-Aviv) or ones that were organized by the Palestinian minority in Israel (in Haifa, Nazareth, and the villages of the Galilee). No Jewish-Israeli popular dissent is legitimate, it seems, when the life of an Israeli soldier is at stake, as the killing of tens of Palestinians (16 in the last 24 hours alone), the wounding of hundreds, and the bombing of beaches, bridges, fields, houses, power plants, and roads is received with cynical and complicit silence.



    Also denied is the seemingly endless Palestinian peace offers that have been coming out of occupied Palestine for at least the last month. The prisoners' document has been attacked by the Israeli government as either 'insignificant' or as yet another attempt to legitimize terrorism and destroy the state of Israel! Solidly wedded to the international consensus (rejected by Israel and the US) of ending the illegal occupation, dismantling settlements, creating a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank (with East Jerusalem as capital), and abiding by international laws and resolutions over the Palestinian refugee problem, the prisoners' document has been resoundingly adopted by the Hamas-controlled Palestinian government. As Israeli bombs fall on Gaza, then, Palestinians have yet again shown that they are able and willing to consider a settlement of the question of Palestine in a fair peaceful manner. A peace offer has also been clearly articulated by Prime Minister Haniyeh in the Washington Post (July 11, 2006), modestly asking Americans to support the same rights that sovereign and independent nations enjoy: 'to live in peace, dignity and national integrity' and to create 'a fair and permanent peace' with Israel. Indeed, it is reasonable to argue that in the last couple of weeks Hamas has embarked on what one Israeli strategist before the 1982 invasion of Lebanon called 'a peace offensive' referring to the PLO. And the analogy is powerful and ominous: when 'threatened' by a Hamas ceasefire (which, like the PLO's previous one of 1981-82, also lasted over a year) and real peace, Israel bombs its way out of a diplomatic settlement. 2006 may well be a repetition of 1982 in this regard. And if Israel in 1982 used the attempted assassination of Israeli ambassador to London Argov by Palestinian groups not signed on to the PLO ceasefire as an excuse to put into motion a pre-planned invasion of Lebanon in order to crush the PLO, then the capture of soldier Gilad Shalit in 2006 has also been exploited in order to unleash a re-invasion of Gaza planned and hinted at months in advance of the Keren Shalom military operation. Confronted with real peace, Israel responds by waging war: and the 'permanent war society' is actively reproduced. As a result, a permanent peace society is as rejected and as illusive as ever.



    As one hears the incessant bombing of southern Lebanon in response to today's (July 12) Hezbollah military incident in Northern Israel (details of which are hourly emerging), it is easy to conclude that another broad and brutal military adventure in Lebanon is also on the horizon. If Hezbollah has sought to force Israel to release the illegally held Lebanese prisoners it still holds captive in Israeli prisons, the Israeli military echelons will most probably respond by unleashing Israeli military might against yet another defenseless Arab nation. As of now: the near future looks bleak, as Israeli rejectionism and military logic dominate.





    * Avishai Ehrlich, 'Israel: Conflict, War and Social Change', in Colin Creighton and Martin Shaw (eds.), The Sociology of War and Peace, New York, Sheridan House, 1987, pp121-142.





    Bashir Abu-Manneh teaches English at Barnard College, New York.
  • rightondude
    rightondude Posts: 745
    The only apparent solution is an ever expanding genocidal one. That is not even possible, so they need to open negiotiations until a solution is reached. If they were smart they would start multiple campaigns to subconsciously promote acceptance through self realization. Much to elaborate on this.

    Otherwise they can continue to regress and progress in a never ending ping pong match of killing and hating.

    Wow that was too easy, perhaps I should run for office. It seems noone else getting paid the big bucks can figure this out. However I doubt very highly that's the case though, and I'm no political genius by any means. Quite the opposite. I hate politics.

    Me thinks I smell evil rats in the office...lots of em. I smell even bigger fatter greasier ones controlling the banks.

    So who's got the gold again?

    He who holds all the gold rules all international government and the world itself. Mark those words my friends, they are the truth of the matter. Government is superficial compared to the international banking system. All just political puppets for their sick banking pleasure.

    One day you will know...

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