yep you guys are right...it's smart marketing to not announce you're releasing your album 2 weeks before you are going to release it :roll:
While I agree that the album won't be coming out on June 2nd. Single??? Maybe. But even that is a long shot. I'll see your two weeks and raise you a ten days like Radiohead did. I'll then see your ten days and raise you a "couple" of days before like the Racontuers
yep you guys are right...it's smart marketing to not announce you're releasing your album 2 weeks before you are going to release it :roll:
I dont think its 2 weeks away. I think its end of June, or sometime in July. I just DONT think its as late as September. No way.
And remember when PJ didnt announce their concerts until they were already on sale?>????
Announcement! P J Tickets are onsale now! We know we havent told you anything....but they are playing these cities and they are already on sale in the goods section.
That's entirely possible -- but clearly the 2006 album/tour represented a shift in them actively courting attention about new material, so I don't think the 1991-2003 M.O. applies.
thats how clive does business, no way to tell if the same will happen this time around
My guess is somehow Conan asked, they thought it sounded like fun and gives them a chance to try out some new tunes before they head to Europe and Chicago, so they said yes. Simple as that. I doubt it has anything to do with the release date.
That's entirely possible -- but clearly the 2006 album/tour represented a shift in them actively courting attention about new material, so I don't think the 1991-2003 M.O. applies.
I'm not saying they accepted Conan because they knew they'd have a single/album out by then, but that now that they have, it makes sense to do so if possible. And prior to the tour, as well.
1996, Letterman appearance, shortly after No Code released, and sandwiched in the middle of a tour.
1998 - Took over the airwaves for MW radio, a few days prior to Yield's release, not to mention the all new marketing campaign for the album as well
2000 - Letterman appearance 2 weeks before Binaural Released
2002 - 2 Days on Letterman, 3 days after Riot Act Released
2006 - SNL 3 weeks prior to album release, Letterman 2 days after release
What MO are you referring to. Releasing something on June 2nd fits it ENTIRELY.
sounds about right- I do think it will happen right before ACL
Then why bother with the Conan show June 1st? Ok, Pearl Jam is playing new songs, to promote an upcoming album 3 months away? You don't take such a high profile show to promote something that's not ready for the public within a reasonable amount of time.
Ok, so digital download available June 2nd while hard copy/expanded cd available in the fall.
Let's see.
Haven't read the whole thread; this may have been touched upon already....
Who says they're not just doing the show because of the massive exposure of Conan's first night on the TOnight Show? Maybe it's not really to promote the new album, but for exposure...and they figure that since they have new songs ready to go (regardless of release date), they'll play one instead of rehashing old stuff?
from a marketing standpoint? since when has that been the only reason PJ makes decision?
if the belgian poster is correct, and the new album is being put out by universal (or some subsidiary), then that points to this whole tonight show thing as being a business decision first and foremost - not by the band, not by conan, but by marketing execs at nbc/universal.
they use PJ to help the show's ratings, and they use the show to promote PJ to sell more albums. universal stands to clean up on both ends.
if all that happens to be true, will i let it bother me? not really i guess. it's 2009 and everything's about the money, esp. in the entertainment biz. but block that stuff out and still enjoy the show and the new album.
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
if the belgian poster is correct, and the new album is being put out by universal (or some subsidiary)
The rumor has been the band would self-release the album in America but use a distributor to get it overseas. The Belgian poster is consistent with that and wouldn't necessarily mean Universal is calling the shots with regard to Conan.
"They said ... timing was everything
made him ... want to be everywhere
there's a ... lot to be said for nowhere."
Haven't read the whole thread; this may have been touched upon already....
Who says they're not just doing the show because of the massive exposure of Conan's first night on the TOnight Show? Maybe it's not really to promote the new album, but for exposure...and they figure that since they have new songs ready to go (regardless of release date), they'll play one instead of rehashing old stuff?
A fair thought, but the press release specifically said to feature songs off of the new album.
My guess is somehow Conan asked, they thought it sounded like fun and gives them a chance to try out some new tunes before they head to Europe and Chicago, so they said yes. Simple as that. I doubt it has anything to do with the release date.
That's entirely possible -- but clearly the 2006 album/tour represented a shift in them actively courting attention about new material, so I don't think the 1991-2003 M.O. applies.
I'm not saying they accepted Conan because they knew they'd have a single/album out by then, but that now that they have, it makes sense to do so if possible. And prior to the tour, as well.
1996, Letterman appearance, shortly after No Code released, and sandwiched in the middle of a tour.
1998 - Took over the airwaves for MW radio, a few days prior to Yield's release, not to mention the all new marketing campaign for the album as well
2000 - Letterman appearance 2 weeks before Binaural Released
2002 - 2 Days on Letterman, 3 days after Riot Act Released
2006 - SNL 3 weeks prior to album release, Letterman 2 days after release
What MO are you referring to. Releasing something on June 2nd fits it ENTIRELY.
And in every single one of those instances, the release date was known well before the performance was ever even announced.
What about the 92 mtv awards, snl in 94, jools holland show, vh1 storytellers, etc? They've had many tv appearances over the years. Accepting an invite to be the musical guests on what i guaranteed to be a huge night of tv by no means is some guarantee that an album release is in the works.
What about the 92 mtv awards, snl in 94, jools holland show, vh1 storytellers, etc? They've had many tv appearances over the years. Accepting an invite to be the musical guests on what i guaranteed to be a huge night of tv by no means is some guarantee that an album release is in the works.
And how far in advance was In Rainbows promoted for before being released digitally one day, and how bout Nine Inch Nails Ghosts or The Slip for that matter.
So in terms of making a release date known, it's irrelevant at this stage of the process, there is no release date needed. And as someone mentioned before...."TIX ON SALE NOW" without any advance warning other than some sort of tweet, but nothing to the general public.
from a marketing standpoint? since when has that been the only reason PJ makes decision?
if the belgian poster is correct, and the new album is being put out by universal (or some subsidiary), then that points to this whole tonight show thing as being a business decision first and foremost - not by the band, not by conan, but by marketing execs at nbc/universal.
they use PJ to help the show's ratings, and they use the show to promote PJ to sell more albums. universal stands to clean up on both ends.
if all that happens to be true, will i let it bother me? not really i guess. it's 2009 and everything's about the money, esp. in the entertainment biz. but block that stuff out and still enjoy the show and the new album.
I think this makes a lot of sense. Kind of bothers me though.
"hear my name, take a good look, this could be the day."
Conan had the White Stripes on for his farewell show in NYC. They weren't promoting anything. I view it as the same thing. A big, available band to play your biggest show.
This is just a great op for the band and I'm guessing they just want to give us a treat (new songs). Thank you Pearl Jam!
As far as the release goes, i do believe it will be out earlier than late September. At the same time though, I believe the reports that it isn't named and it is not ready to be released at this minute.
What is excting is that they are going to start doing interviews and we will start to hear early info on the album as it leaks out. This will be an exciting summer with some suprises along the way for sure.
I was thinking earlier about how some of us longtime fans miss the mystery of pre interent. Having to do your own research etc. In a way they still do that to the best of their abilities. People may bitch about how they are handling things but bottom line is at least we're discussing it and we all have lots of questions. F it, that's a great thing!
Psyched for some new PJ rock!
“I know this song so well, I can smoke a cigarette, have a drink, brush my teeth, take a shit, and mow the lawn while singing it. But I'll only be doing a couple of those things during this version.”
Conan had the White Stripes on for his farewell show in NYC. They weren't promoting anything. I view it as the same thing. A big, available band to play your biggest show.
This is just a great op for the band and I'm guessing they just want to give us a treat (new songs). Thank you Pearl Jam!
As far as the release goes, i do believe it will be out earlier than late September. At the same time though, I believe the reports that it isn't named and it is not ready to be released at this minute.
What is excting is that they are going to start doing interviews and we will start to hear early info on the album as it leaks out. This will be an exciting summer with some suprises along the way for sure.
I was thinking earlier about how some of us longtime fans miss the mystery of pre interent. Having to do your own research etc. In a way they still do that to the best of their abilities. People may bitch about how they are handling things but bottom line is at least we're discussing it and we all have lots of questions. F it, that's a great thing!
Psyched for some new PJ rock!
I've seen the White Stripes mentioned a few times, but they are a different circumstance. They're Conan's favorite band. If Dave was closing shop and PJ was playin I could see the comparison, but this is somethin different.
I don't think the album will be out on 6/2, but the single will probably drop around then. The album is recorded and now they are workin out final mixes and track order, that much we know. Bands don't sit on albums like they used to.
If they plan on waitin til November, we'll hear it long before then, b/c it'll leak.
Late summer/early fall>August 24/25 is my pinpoint prediction.
I am sure someone at the first Vedder show in 3 weeks will scream out and ask him when will it be released followed by a request to play some of the new songs.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
I am sure someone at the first Vedder show in 3 weeks will scream out and ask him when will it be released followed by a request to play some of the new songs.
Yeah, if Ed wanted to avoid requests and yelling fans, he picked a strange time to tour.
What about the 92 mtv awards, snl in 94, jools holland show, vh1 storytellers, etc? They've had many tv appearances over the years. Accepting an invite to be the musical guests on what i guaranteed to be a huge night of tv by no means is some guarantee that an album release is in the works.
And how far in advance was In Rainbows promoted for before being released digitally one day, and how bout Nine Inch Nails Ghosts or The Slip for that matter.
So in terms of making a release date known, it's irrelevant at this stage of the process, there is no release date needed. And as someone mentioned before...."TIX ON SALE NOW" without any advance warning other than some sort of tweet, but nothing to the general public.
NIN and Radiohead are miles ahead of PJ both in terms of internet savvy and in public awareness. They can do that and people will race to get it. PJ doesn't generate the same kind of interest.
As to tickets, my guess was they did it in a misguided effort to avoid the kind of insane frenzy that has accompanied some of their ticket sales in the past.
Because on a logistical and marketing standpoint, it's pointless.
how about just because it would be fun? how about they are doing it because they have never played the tonight show (I dont think) and they like Conan? how about that playing the first night of the "new" tonight show is kinda cool just in itself? they will play a song, folks will rip it and distribute it and build a buzz for the official release and tour dates
logistically, you and I really dont know whats involved-but hey Id watch out for a show in LA around that time
from a marketing standpoint? since when has that been the only reason PJ makes decision?
thank you...someone making sense
exactly....said the same in my very first post. it's certainly not *pointless* at all. it's win-win for them both! conan scoring a big band for his opening, pearl jam being the first musical guest on the new tonight show. that, in and of itself, is reason *enough*....right along with the fun, the buzz generated, the excitement. i don't see why any other *reasons*, such as album release, whatever...needs to be tied to it, at all.
NIN and Radiohead are miles ahead of PJ both in terms of internet savvy and in public awareness. They can do that and people will race to get it. PJ doesn't generate the same kind of interest.
The Conan premiere could be viewed as somethin to help raise awareness for PJ's new album, so I think they are gonna capitalize on it as much as possible. They've promoted their albums more and more with the last few albums, and I'd guess they'll turn it up a notch again for this one.
Slap a "name your own price" box in PJ's store and they will have matched Radiohead's internet savvy. NIN are miles ahead of everybody as far as that goes, but nobody has really tried anything on the same level. The "name your own price" thing was cool but I dunno if it was anything more than what PJ has done with their live shows.
Radiohead did it more to make headlines, where NIN are really using it to move music forward.
i don't see why any other *reasons*, such as album release, whatever...needs to be tied to it, at all.
Because whether you like it or not, the world of business is is not about "fun", but rather, business.
believe me, i understand that. :?
seriously tho, getting to the point pearl jam is in at this point in their career does afford them many choices....and they have always been about making their own decisions. you also fail to appreciate that simply being ON the tonight show, for it's debut with conan at the helm, is a HUGE business thing in terms of exposure. as others have rightly pointed out, this is NOT the first time pearl jam has made a tv performance, nor debuted new music on a tv performance, without an album release already or soon after. again i say, it is VERY possible they are doing it for the *fun* of it...and you bet...the exposure, for both pearl jam and conan, all win-win....and who's to say that after this initial show, conan doesn't ask them back in 3-4 months time to be a musical guest, again, to promote their new album? this is how good business relationships develop....you use your star-power to help another star shine more brightly. who knows...maybe you'll be right. i personally think not. in either case tho, your opinion on the topic - being there is 'no point' to this appearance if they don't release their album right away - is just that, your opinion....and no more right or wrong than anyone' else's here.
i don't see why any other *reasons*, such as album release, whatever...needs to be tied to it, at all.
Because whether you like it or not, the world of business is is not about "fun", but rather, business.
believe me, i understand that. :?
seriously tho, getting to the point pearl jam is in at this point in their career does afford them many choices....and they have always been about making their own decisions. you also fail to appreciate that simply being ON the tonight show, for it's debut with conan at the helm, is a HUGE business thing in terms of exposure. as others have rightly pointed out, this is NOT the first time pearl jam has made a tv performance, nor debuted new music on a tv performance, without an album release already or soon after. again i say, it is VERY possible they are doing it for the *fun* of it...and you bet...the exposure, for both pearl jam and conan, all win-win....and who's to say that after this initial show, conan doesn't ask them back in 3-4 months time to be a musical guest, again, to promote their new album? this is how good business relationships develop....you use your star-power to help another star shine more brightly. who knows...maybe you'll be right. i personally think not. in either case tho, your opinion on the topic - being there is 'no point' to this appearance if they don't release their album right away - is just that, your opinion....and no more right or wrong than anyone' else's here.
Exactly We are on the same page, having some good discussion here, but another opinion of mine is...
Back when PJ did the 2005 tour (which was to fund the avocado album through pearl jam llc rather than individual pockets or the backing of a record label, that is fact, not opinion) they stated they will not play any of the new stuff....sure gone was written, then later recorded for the album.....BUT.....they were touring on no album (unless you count it for the lost dogs/rearviewmirror tour)...but also, they did not play the new songs.....and there were a lot of hardcore fans that went to a lot of those shows....
I'm really not sure why - you can say the songs weren't "ready" but that could be another debate within itself, or to save the new stuff for something closer to the album release date....so to also bring up things in the past isn't ever relevant with PJ in the future....so we're all on a common ground of who knows.
But i'll be basking in zero glory if something is released june 2nd...cause we all win, not just me haha.
sounds about right- I do think it will happen right before ACL
Then why bother with the Conan show June 1st? Ok, Pearl Jam is playing new songs, to promote an upcoming album 3 months away? You don't take such a high profile show to promote something that's not ready for the public within a reasonable amount of time.
Ok, so digital download available June 2nd while hard copy/expanded cd available in the fall.
Let's see.
They are doing June 1 because that will be Conan's first show. If they were going to release the album on June 2, the marketing/promotion wheels would already have been cranking.
They are doing June 1 because that will be Conan's first show. If they were going to release the album on June 2, the marketing/promotion wheels would already have been cranking.
i said that too but i was told radiohead did it differently so i was wrong... :roll:
They are doing June 1 because that will be Conan's first show. If they were going to release the album on June 2, the marketing/promotion wheels would already have been cranking.
you don't need marketing/promotion wheels on a new album in this day and age whether for an album or a single.....radiohead/nine inch nails have been doing just fine...and dave matthews hasn't ever had a promotion for an album for who knows how long i can remember....not saying it doesn't exist, but if it does it's not reaching part of its target audience
but who knows...i'm still saying, something june 2nd.
Exactly We are on the same page, having some good discussion here, but another opinion of mine is...
Back when PJ did the 2005 tour (which was to fund the avocado album through pearl jam llc rather than individual pockets or the backing of a record label, that is fact, not opinion) they stated they will not play any of the new stuff....sure gone was written, then later recorded for the album.....BUT.....they were touring on no album (unless you count it for the lost dogs/rearviewmirror tour)...but also, they did not play the new songs.....and there were a lot of hardcore fans that went to a lot of those shows....
I'm really not sure why - you can say the songs weren't "ready" but that could be another debate within itself, or to save the new stuff for something closer to the album release date....so to also bring up things in the past isn't ever relevant with PJ in the future....so we're all on a common ground of who knows.
But i'll be basking in zero glory if something is released june 2nd...cause we all win, not just me haha.
Gone was written the day before the Borgata shows by Ed and the band wouldn't had a chance to rehearse it or arrange it in full band format. So I'm not really sure that helps your argument.
Doing Conan on June 1st is POINTLESS unless you're actually promoting something to be out rather quickly within the performance date...sure it's not pointless to the fans, but in the actuality of it, a band like Green Day (who's struggling with first week sales compared to American Idiot) should've tried for that spot on Conan.
They have sold 91,797 copies out of roughly 56% of retailers reporting (in the US)....they shipped out 650K cd's in anticipation of first week sales.
Just stating logistics here people.
Sounds like someone is trying to show what they learned in their music biz course at community college!
Comments
Hilarious! I think you're cruising to get banned again though. Just testing the waters or actually pushing the envelope?
While I agree that the album won't be coming out on June 2nd. Single??? Maybe. But even that is a long shot. I'll see your two weeks and raise you a ten days like Radiohead did. I'll then see your ten days and raise you a "couple" of days before like the Racontuers
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
NO!
I dont think its 2 weeks away. I think its end of June, or sometime in July. I just DONT think its as late as September. No way.
And remember when PJ didnt announce their concerts until they were already on sale?>????
Announcement! P J Tickets are onsale now! We know we havent told you anything....but they are playing these cities and they are already on sale in the goods section.
Nuclear fission
1996, Letterman appearance, shortly after No Code released, and sandwiched in the middle of a tour.
1998 - Took over the airwaves for MW radio, a few days prior to Yield's release, not to mention the all new marketing campaign for the album as well
2000 - Letterman appearance 2 weeks before Binaural Released
2002 - 2 Days on Letterman, 3 days after Riot Act Released
2006 - SNL 3 weeks prior to album release, Letterman 2 days after release
What MO are you referring to. Releasing something on June 2nd fits it ENTIRELY.
Who says they're not just doing the show because of the massive exposure of Conan's first night on the TOnight Show? Maybe it's not really to promote the new album, but for exposure...and they figure that since they have new songs ready to go (regardless of release date), they'll play one instead of rehashing old stuff?
(with a small attempt with Will Farrel and QOTSA haha)
GO DISCUSSIONS! THE MODS WILL BE PROUD
if the belgian poster is correct, and the new album is being put out by universal (or some subsidiary), then that points to this whole tonight show thing as being a business decision first and foremost - not by the band, not by conan, but by marketing execs at nbc/universal.
they use PJ to help the show's ratings, and they use the show to promote PJ to sell more albums. universal stands to clean up on both ends.
if all that happens to be true, will i let it bother me? not really i guess. it's 2009 and everything's about the money, esp. in the entertainment biz. but block that stuff out and still enjoy the show and the new album.
The rumor has been the band would self-release the album in America but use a distributor to get it overseas. The Belgian poster is consistent with that and wouldn't necessarily mean Universal is calling the shots with regard to Conan.
made him ... want to be everywhere
there's a ... lot to be said for nowhere."
A fair thought, but the press release specifically said to feature songs off of the new album.
And in every single one of those instances, the release date was known well before the performance was ever even announced.
What about the 92 mtv awards, snl in 94, jools holland show, vh1 storytellers, etc? They've had many tv appearances over the years. Accepting an invite to be the musical guests on what i guaranteed to be a huge night of tv by no means is some guarantee that an album release is in the works.
And how far in advance was In Rainbows promoted for before being released digitally one day, and how bout Nine Inch Nails Ghosts or The Slip for that matter.
So in terms of making a release date known, it's irrelevant at this stage of the process, there is no release date needed. And as someone mentioned before...."TIX ON SALE NOW" without any advance warning other than some sort of tweet, but nothing to the general public.
I think this makes a lot of sense. Kind of bothers me though.
This is just a great op for the band and I'm guessing they just want to give us a treat (new songs). Thank you Pearl Jam!
As far as the release goes, i do believe it will be out earlier than late September. At the same time though, I believe the reports that it isn't named and it is not ready to be released at this minute.
What is excting is that they are going to start doing interviews and we will start to hear early info on the album as it leaks out. This will be an exciting summer with some suprises along the way for sure.
I was thinking earlier about how some of us longtime fans miss the mystery of pre interent. Having to do your own research etc. In a way they still do that to the best of their abilities. People may bitch about how they are handling things but bottom line is at least we're discussing it and we all have lots of questions. F it, that's a great thing!
Psyched for some new PJ rock!
I've seen the White Stripes mentioned a few times, but they are a different circumstance. They're Conan's favorite band. If Dave was closing shop and PJ was playin I could see the comparison, but this is somethin different.
I don't think the album will be out on 6/2, but the single will probably drop around then. The album is recorded and now they are workin out final mixes and track order, that much we know. Bands don't sit on albums like they used to.
If they plan on waitin til November, we'll hear it long before then, b/c it'll leak.
Late summer/early fall>August 24/25 is my pinpoint prediction.
Yeah, if Ed wanted to avoid requests and yelling fans, he picked a strange time to tour.
NIN and Radiohead are miles ahead of PJ both in terms of internet savvy and in public awareness. They can do that and people will race to get it. PJ doesn't generate the same kind of interest.
As to tickets, my guess was they did it in a misguided effort to avoid the kind of insane frenzy that has accompanied some of their ticket sales in the past.
exactly....said the same in my very first post. it's certainly not *pointless* at all. it's win-win for them both! conan scoring a big band for his opening, pearl jam being the first musical guest on the new tonight show. that, in and of itself, is reason *enough*....right along with the fun, the buzz generated, the excitement. i don't see why any other *reasons*, such as album release, whatever...needs to be tied to it, at all.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Because whether you like it or not, the world of business is is not about "fun", but rather, business.
The Conan premiere could be viewed as somethin to help raise awareness for PJ's new album, so I think they are gonna capitalize on it as much as possible. They've promoted their albums more and more with the last few albums, and I'd guess they'll turn it up a notch again for this one.
Slap a "name your own price" box in PJ's store and they will have matched Radiohead's internet savvy. NIN are miles ahead of everybody as far as that goes, but nobody has really tried anything on the same level. The "name your own price" thing was cool but I dunno if it was anything more than what PJ has done with their live shows.
Radiohead did it more to make headlines, where NIN are really using it to move music forward.
believe me, i understand that. :?
seriously tho, getting to the point pearl jam is in at this point in their career does afford them many choices....and they have always been about making their own decisions. you also fail to appreciate that simply being ON the tonight show, for it's debut with conan at the helm, is a HUGE business thing in terms of exposure. as others have rightly pointed out, this is NOT the first time pearl jam has made a tv performance, nor debuted new music on a tv performance, without an album release already or soon after. again i say, it is VERY possible they are doing it for the *fun* of it...and you bet...the exposure, for both pearl jam and conan, all win-win....and who's to say that after this initial show, conan doesn't ask them back in 3-4 months time to be a musical guest, again, to promote their new album? this is how good business relationships develop....you use your star-power to help another star shine more brightly. who knows...maybe you'll be right. i personally think not. in either case tho, your opinion on the topic - being there is 'no point' to this appearance if they don't release their album right away - is just that, your opinion....and no more right or wrong than anyone' else's here.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Exactly
Back when PJ did the 2005 tour (which was to fund the avocado album through pearl jam llc rather than individual pockets or the backing of a record label, that is fact, not opinion) they stated they will not play any of the new stuff....sure gone was written, then later recorded for the album.....BUT.....they were touring on no album (unless you count it for the lost dogs/rearviewmirror tour)...but also, they did not play the new songs.....and there were a lot of hardcore fans that went to a lot of those shows....
I'm really not sure why - you can say the songs weren't "ready" but that could be another debate within itself, or to save the new stuff for something closer to the album release date....so to also bring up things in the past isn't ever relevant with PJ in the future....so we're all on a common ground of who knows.
But i'll be basking in zero glory if something is released june 2nd...cause we all win, not just me haha.
They are doing June 1 because that will be Conan's first show. If they were going to release the album on June 2, the marketing/promotion wheels would already have been cranking.
i said that too but i was told radiohead did it differently so i was wrong... :roll:
you don't need marketing/promotion wheels on a new album in this day and age whether for an album or a single.....radiohead/nine inch nails have been doing just fine...and dave matthews hasn't ever had a promotion for an album for who knows how long i can remember....not saying it doesn't exist, but if it does it's not reaching part of its target audience
but who knows...i'm still saying, something june 2nd.
Gone was written the day before the Borgata shows by Ed and the band wouldn't had a chance to rehearse it or arrange it in full band format. So I'm not really sure that helps your argument.
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- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Sounds like someone is trying to show what they learned in their music biz course at community college!