Israel should be proud

Byrnzie

stevehomeair wrote:

OR NOT....YOU KILLED JESUS THE ONLY SON OF MAN

stevehomeair

WHAT HOLY LAND new jerUSAlem

catefrances

stevehomeair wrote:

OR NOT....YOU KILLED JESUS THE ONLY SON OF MAN

and herein lies the problem. we need logic in this discussion, not fairy stories.

stevehomeair

PRAY FOR PEACE AND LOVE and forgiveness

catefrances

stevehomeair wrote:

PRAY FOR PEACE AND LOVE and forgiveness

yeah... cause that seems to have worked a treat so far. :roll:

flywallyfly

stevehomeair wrote:

PRAY FOR PEACE AND LOVE and forgiveness

You didnt capitalize forgiveness -- does that mean it's not as important and I should just throw it in at the end of my prayer ? Can I pray for peace and hate as long as it keeps Israel from killing babies?

Flutter Girl

Byrnzie wrote:

RM291946 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

How dare the Palestinians have the audacity to attempt to defend themselves! I can understand how this could lead you to hate them.

Are you attempting to state Roma did something to Hamas militants to deserve the vicious torture? Please please say that so I can rip into you.

Who's Roma? What are you on about?

You are the one who quoted me after I stated why I hate Hamas, saying the above about Palestinians defending themselves. Obviously you simply weren't paying attention to what you were responding to, so I will leave it at that.

To whichever one who asked for proof, it's not about that. I only brought it up in the first place cos one of you said I was dug in against them and was too closed minded. so I wrote about that to explain that I'm not being closed minded, it's that they gave me reason to hate them. If you go back, you'll see that.

NoK

This article is quite long so I'll just be posting the link..

Foiling Another Palestinian "Peace Offensive": Behind the bloodbath in Gaza

By Norman G. Finkelstein

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/articl ... 11&ar=2542

Thoughts_Arrive

Israels objective was to annihilate the Palestinian people, not Hamas.
How can you be proud killing so many innocent children you dogs, fuck you! :evil: , what the f*** have the children done?
They have committed a war crime and should be brought to justice!

canadajammer

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

Israels objective was to annihilate the Palestinian people, not Hamas.
How can you be proud killing so many innocent children you dogs, fuck you! :evil: , what the f*** have the children done?
They have committed a war crime and should be brought to justice!

Israel's objective was certainly not to annihilate the Palestinian people. As horrible as this sounds, if Israel truly wanted to annihilate the people, the death toll would be a hell of a lot higher than it turned out to be.


Here is what I believe:

Israel for defense, political, public pressure and other reasons, finally decided to retaliate against the Hamas rockets. It's been years and years of rocket fire, without any major retaliation from Israel. I do think Israel was justified in their response, and I think other nations would certainly do the same.

That being said, I do not think Israel's response (justified or otherwise) was the right thing to do in this situation. Most importantly, innocent people have died. Israel is democratic, liberal, they practice human rights. Hamas and Islamist governments do not do this. Ever wonder why Israel always gets held under double standards? They are expected to be the moral/ethical nation (which they are most of the time). if Israel messes up once, they face huge public outcry. But when Hamas murdered 100s of Palestinians in their civil battle with Fatah, there was no public outcry.

I don't think what Israel did was right. But the public needs to recognize the impossible situation that they face. And if the public truly cares about the Palestinian people, they would rally out against their Hamas leaders who seriously do not have peace and their own people's best interests at heart.

Flutter Girl

speaking of the children having done nothing..we are no more innocent than the Israeli's. And I know for fact we have targeted at least 2 schools. One of which was aired on news over there showing Afghan mothers wailing while carrying their dead children out of the building.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090125/wl_nm/us_afghan_protest

fuck

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Israel's objective was certainly not to annihilate the Palestinian people. As horrible as this sounds, if Israel truly wanted to annihilate the people, the death toll would be a hell of a lot higher than it turned out to be.

As John Mearsheimer said, "it was not to kill all the Palestinians, it was to beat them into submission. But they will never be beaten into submission."

Israel for defense, political, public pressure and other reasons, finally decided to retaliate against the Hamas rockets. It's been years and years of rocket fire, without any major retaliation from Israel. I do think Israel was justified in their response, and I think other nations would certainly do the same.

You love to overlook things. You leave out that Israel has still been controlling the Gaza Strip. That the Gazans don't truly have freedom. That they actually barely ever have food, electricity, sanitation, medicine, etc. The rocket fire, in fact, is retaliation. And you want it to stop? It stopped in the six-month ceasefire that Israel violated. Not Hamas. But Israel. If any other country were doing the same as Israel, I would condemn them as well.

That being said, I do not think Israel's response (justified or otherwise) was the right thing to do in this situation. Most importantly, innocent people have died. Israel is democratic, liberal, they practice human rights.

Haha! As we all know, this is democratic and fair: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7825032.stm

They are expected to be the moral/ethical nation (which they are most of the time).

Only an idiot would expect them to be moral/ethical if you were to simply look at their history.

if Israel messes up once, they face huge public outcry. But when Hamas murdered 100s of Palestinians in their civil battle with Fatah, there was no public outcry.

There was public outcry. But when Israel kills hundreds more people, including tons of children, and commits insane war crimes, they WILL be held accountable. the civil war was nothing as bad as what Israel actually does to the Palestinians. In fact, it's simply an effect of the occupation and oppression.

I don't think what Israel did was right. But the public needs to recognize the impossible situation that they face.

The only thing that seems impossible for Israel is for them to be a peaceful, non-oppressor state.

And if the public truly cares about the Palestinian people, they would rally out against their Hamas leaders who seriously do not have peace and their own people's best interests at heart.

You provide no proof for this. Hamas has offered peace - the same peace the entire international community wants. Israel says no. how is Hamas being unreasonable? They want the same thing the UN and the world wants. Israel, on the other hand, is accused of war crimes, oppressing, occupying, etc.... they actually commit international crimes against the Geneva Convention and countless UN resolutions. You choose to ignore all of this in order to defend Israel's massacre of hundreds of children, and many more people, their leaving tens of thousands of people homeless, and causing billions in damage in an area where 80% of the 1.5 million people are refugees. Disgraceful.

fuck

RM291946 wrote:

speaking of the children having done nothing..we are no more innocent than the Israeli's. And I know for fact we have targeted at least 2 schools. One of which was aired on news over there showing Afghan mothers wailing while carrying their dead children out of the building.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090125/wl_nm/us_afghan_protest

Who the hell ever said the US is more innocent? This is completely irrelevant. You dismiss anything I bring up - which is COMPLETELY related - just so you don't have to address it, but bring up something like this to distract everyone from Israel's crimes against humanity.

flywallyfly

Wonder why they are so worried ????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090125/ap_ ... IRgxYDW7oF

JERUSALEM – Special legal teams will defend Israeli soldiers against potential war crimes charges stemming from civilian deaths in the Gaza Strip, the prime minister said Sunday, promising the country would "fully back" those who fought in the three-week offensive.

The move reflected growing concerns by Israel that officers could be subject to international prosecution, despite the army's claims that Hamas militants caused the civilian casualties by staging attacks from residential areas.

"The state of Israel will fully back those who acted on its behalf," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said. "The soldiers and commanders who were sent on missions in Gaza must know that they are safe from various tribunals."

flywallyfly

Maybe because they are busted and they know it ?? Life is cheap for these Israeli animals.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/unusu ... IDLRVNWS08

flywallyfly

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/ ... phorus.cnn

fuck

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752349n

Flutter Girl

_outlaw wrote:

RM291946 wrote:

speaking of the children having done nothing..we are no more innocent than the Israeli's. And I know for fact we have targeted at least 2 schools. One of which was aired on news over there showing Afghan mothers wailing while carrying their dead children out of the building.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090125/wl_nm/us_afghan_protest

Who the hell ever said the US is more innocent? This is completely irrelevant. You dismiss anything I bring up - which is COMPLETELY related - just so you don't have to address it, but bring up something like this to distract everyone from Israel's crimes against humanity.

What? I wasn't responding to anything specific..I just saw a sentence about the children, at the same time I had the article on another page and was reading it. Thought it was an interesting coincidence, is all...Lord have mercy :roll:

NoK

The Indian example
Radhika Sainath, The Electronic Intifada, 26 January 2009
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10245.shtml

In Gaza, Palestinians have once again been blamed for their own deaths. The British made a similar argument 151 years ago when they killed thousands of Indian civilians -- 1,200 in a single village -- in response to the largest anti-colonial uprising of the 19th century. If Israel truly desires peace with the Palestinians and safety for its citizens, it should look back to one of the greatest, and misunderstood, independence movements in history.

Most people believe India won its independence from the British exclusively through Gandhi's famous strategy of nonviolence. They're wrong; armed resistance has deep roots in India. During the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857, also known as the First War of Independence, Hindus and Muslims serving in the infantry for the British East Indian Company revolted against the British Empire, killing British officers and civilians alike. While the majority of these cavalrymen were Hindu, Muslims also partook in the rebellion. These Muslim fighters called themselves "jihadis" and even "suicide ghazis."

The British quashed the revolt, but for the next 90 years Indian violence, even terrorism, in response continued. In the early 20th century, Indian militants, frustrated with the Congress party -- the party of Gandhi and Nehru -- regularly resorted to acts of violence to overthrow the British. Official government reports note 210 "revolutionary outrages" and at least 1,000 "terrorists" involved in more than 101 attempted attacks between 1906 and 1917 in the state of Bengal alone (see Peter Heehs, "Terrorism in India During the Freedom Struggle," The Historian, 22 March 1993). One young revolutionary, Bhagat Singh, later referred to as "Shaheed" Bhagat Singh, bombed the Legislative Assembly in 1929.

On the other hand, Palestinians are usually portrayed in Israel and the West as exclusively militants or terrorists. Yet Palestinians have a vibrant, albeit unsuccessful, history of nonviolent resistance. In 1936, the Palestinians maintained a six-month general strike, the beginning of what became known as the Great Arab Revolt. The British retaliated by declaring martial law, jailing and killing large numbers of Palestinians, and destroying numerous Palestinian homes. The revolt lasted for three years and was the largest and longest anti-colonial uprising in the British Empire.

Fifty years later, the first Palestinian intifada was largely nonviolent and included acts of mass civil disobedience like flying the Palestinian flag, organizing strikes and boycotting Israeli products. In 1985, Mubarak Awad, a Palestinian-American psychologist from Jerusalem established a center for nonviolent resistance on the teachings of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. He was deported by Israel in 1988 (see Mubarak Awad, "Non-Violent Resistance: A Strategy for the Occupied Territories." Journal of Palestine Studies. Summer 1984). A year later, Beit Sahour, a town near Bethlehem, engaged in a tax revolt against Israel, under the famous American slogan "No taxation without representation." The Israeli army responded by arresting over 80 Palestinians, cutting telephone lines, blocking food shipments into the town and confiscating millions of dollars in Palestinian goods.

What about the current conflict? All the public hears about are the small, makeshift rockets Palestinians fire into southern Israel. But farmers, fisherman and children had been nonviolently resisting the Israeli occupation for years.

Up until the Israeli invasion, Gaza fishermen had been disobeying Israeli orders by fishing in their waters -- not unlike Gandhi when he urged Indians to march to the sea to collect their own salt against British orders. In response, the British beat and imprisoned Gandhi's marchers. Likewise, the Israeli navy repeatedly forced Palestinian fisherman to strip to their underwear and swim to Israeli navy ships, where they are detained and their boats confiscated.

Since 2002, Palestinian men, women and children have been sitting in front of Israeli bulldozers flattening their olive groves to construct a wall deep into the West Bank. The Israeli army has responded to these peaceful protestors with tear gas, beatings, arrests and even death.

The pattern occurred time and again: nonviolent Palestinian resistance would be crushed by Israeli force and ignored by the West. With nothing to show for their efforts, is it any surprise that the Palestinian peaceful protest movement founders? Violence has always been a historical response to colonialism and repression, in conflicts from India to Algeria to South Africa. That doesn't make attacks on civilians right -- or strategically effective, for that matter. In fact, as we all know, the Indian revolt against the British Empire only finally succeeded when Gandhi convinced his countrymen to resist peacefully. Extremist factions, like those during the Indian independence movement, only gain strength and popularity when Israel flattens even the most harmless dissent.

mickeyrat

not sure where this belongs. didn't want to start a new thread so.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_ ... ast_carter

Offers 3 seemingly plausible realities.