Israel should be proud

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  • CJMST3K
    CJMST3K Posts: 9,722
    Commy wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    CJMST3K wrote:
    I suppose Israel should just allow Hamas to keep firing rockets at their civilians, without retaliation.
    NO but if what they were/are doing creates that kind of reaction , then maybe they want to rethink he they're going about things.
    yeah, those damn rockets that killed all of 3 civilians. during the same time Israel killed over 700 innocent palestinians. seems their is a slight imbalance to the violence.


    btw, the rockets started again AS retaliation against Israeli aggression. Israel broke the ceasefire...not to excuse the rocket attacks-but people are putting a little too much importance in something that does almost no damage to Israel or its civilians.


    My understanding is that during the ceasefire Hamas fired several thousand rockets into Israel.

    Is Hamas targeting civilians? Please answer yes or no.

    Should Israel's response, to be "proportionate", be to fire several thousand rockets back? Please answer how you would have handled it differently if you had to make the call. Hamas fired a few thousand rockets at you, killing some... attempting to kill a lot more... and you would do.... what...
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
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  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    This is the story I mentioned earlier..

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/gaza-f ... 96621.html

    Gaza family says Israeli soldier shot children

    SOUAD ABED RABBO was in her apartment on the edge of the Jabalya refugee camp near the Israeli border on January 7 when the call came from Israeli soldiers for everyone in the area to come outside.

    Her apartment had been bombed, and there was an Israeli tank unit approaching the building.

    "We started coming outside of the apartment, and we were waving white flags to show that we were not fighters," she said through a translator yesterday.

    Among the first to exit the building were one of her sons, Khaled, and his wife and three daughters, Amal, 2, Sammer, 4, and Souad, 7.

    Two soldiers were standing on either side of the tank outside the house, she said. Another of her sons, Husam, told the Herald that one of the soldiers was an officer.

    "They were standing there just looking at us, and they were eating chips and one had chocolate and they were talking to each other," Husam said.

    "We were waiting for about 10 minutes for directions on where we should go."

    Husam and another son, Ahmed, said a third soldier rose from inside the tank, holding his rifle.

    Their mother says she did not see the third soldier until he started shooting.

    "He did it very slowly," Ahmed said. "He took careful aim at the little girls, and shot Amal and Souad three times. Sammer started running back up the steps toward the house and he shot her also."

    Their grandmother started shouting, trying to push her son, Khaled, the father of the two shot girls, and his wife, back into the house. She was also shot, three times.

    One bullet passed through her upper arm, another passed through her torso underneath her rib cage, and another was lodged in her abdomen.

    Ahmed, Husam, and another son, Farj, recall that their mother and the three girls were dragged inside the house. "When the soldiers realised that two of the girls were dead, they said Khaled could take her to the hospital,"

    Khaled starting shouting for help.

    One neighbour who heard him was Ehab al-Asheikh, an ambulance driver, who told the Herald he went outside to see what had happened.

    "I wanted to use the ambulance to drive Khaled to the hospital but I was prevented from doing so by the soldiers," he said.

    Khaled said the soldiers told him he could take his daughter to the hospital, and he set off on foot with Sammer in his arms. His wife walked with him, carrying one of the dead girls, and another brother, Ibrahim, carried the second dead girl.

    Sammer was taken to Shifa hospital, then transferred to a hospital in Egypt and is now in intensive care in a hospital in Belgium and reportedly has severe spinal injuries.

    The Israeli Defence Forces later destroyed the building, and all the other residential buildings in the neighbourhood.

    Ehad al-Asheikh showed the Herald his ambulance which, was crushed almost beyond recognition underneath the rubble of his former home.

    An Israeli military spokesman, Captain Benjamin Rutland, said the allegations were being treated seriously and being investigated.

    "With regard to this particular incident, this is being investigated at the very highest levels of the IDF," Captain Rutland said. "It is a very thorough investigation."

    Captain Rutland stressed that at no stage did the IDF

    target civilians.

    Khaled Abed Rabbo showed pictures of the dead girls taken on his mobile phone. He also claims that he has video footage of the girls, taken after they had died, but this was not shown to the Herald.

    Khaled Abed Rabbo is on the payroll of the Palestinian Authority based in the West Bank city of Ramallah, as a policeman. The family is associated with the Fatah movement of the Palestinian Authority President, Mahmoud Abbas, and is not believed to have any connections to Hamas.

    He is demanding a full inquiry and wants the chance to present his own evidence.

    "Why do they come after us?" Khaled asked the Herald. "We are not militants here. We are not Hamas. We are just ordinary people.

    "Somebody did this to my daughters and I want the world to know what is going on here."
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    CJMST3K wrote:
    My understanding is that during the ceasefire Hamas fired several thousand rockets into Israel.

    Is Hamas targeting civilians? Please answer yes or no.

    Should Israel's response, to be "proportionate", be to fire several thousand rockets back? Please answer how you would have handled it differently if you had to make the call. Hamas fired a few thousand rockets at you, killing some... attempting to kill a lot more... and you would do.... what...

    You're understanding is WRONG. Israel broke the ceasefire on November 4th 2008 by going into Gaza and killing 6 Hamas militants after a major lull in violence. Go read all the links we posted.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    CJMST3K wrote:


    My understanding is that during the ceasefire Hamas fired several thousand rockets into Israel.

    Is Hamas targeting civilians? Please answer yes or no.

    Should Israel's response, to be "proportionate", be to fire several thousand rockets back? Please answer how you would have handled it differently if you had to make the call. Hamas fired a few thousand rockets at you, killing some... attempting to kill a lot more... and you would do.... what...
    my understanding is that hamas don't quite have the precision stuff that Israel have... so nope, I wouldn't say they're targetting civilians... but they've no choice if they wanna retaliate... Israel have all this hi tech stuff.
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  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    edited January 2009
    CJMST3K wrote:


    My understanding is that during the ceasefire Hamas fired several thousand rockets into Israel.

    Is Hamas targeting civilians? Please answer yes or no.

    Should Israel's response, to be "proportionate", be to fire several thousand rockets back? Please answer how you would have handled it differently if you had to make the call. Hamas fired a few thousand rockets at you, killing some... attempting to kill a lot more... and you would do.... what...

    actually Israel broke the cease fire-even CNN agrees http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

    and no Hamas isn't targeting civilians. they can't target anything with those homemade rockets. they fire them blind-which is why only 3 civilians were killed, they aren't accurate enough to target schools and so on-unlike the Israeli military's arsenal.. Israel has deliberately targeted civilians..as seen when they bombed the UN school, which is just one case, of many.


    So Israel broke the ceasefire , Hamas retaliated, so somehow Israel's war became about stopping the rocket attacks-which they started in the first place. Israel's actions are thecause of the rocket attacks...so the solution seems very simple to me. stop attacking Gaza and there will be no rocket attacks.
    Post edited by Commy on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    CJMST3K wrote:
    I suppose Israel should just allow Hamas to keep firing rockets at their civilians, without retaliation.

    You mean the civilians who live in towns like Sderot, which legally belongs to the Palestinians?

    They have an alternative. They can abide by international law and make a full withdrawal from the occupied territories. How's that?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited January 2009
    CJMST3K wrote:
    My understanding is that during the ceasefire Hamas fired several thousand rockets into Israel.

    Is Hamas targeting civilians? Please answer yes or no.

    Should Israel's response, to be "proportionate", be to fire several thousand rockets back? Please answer how you would have handled it differently if you had to make the call. Hamas fired a few thousand rockets at you, killing some... attempting to kill a lot more... and you would do.... what...

    My understanding is that Israel imposed an illegal 3 year blockade of Gaza which resulted in the U.N declaring it a crime against humanity. Israel broke the terms of the ceasefire by never fully lifting the blockade. It also outright broke the ceasefire on November 5th when it carried out an illegal incursion into Gaza which left 6 Palestinians dead.
    But then I've already mentioned this. Just continue ignoring the facts.

    If anyone is interested in the results on the civilian population of Gaza as a direct result of Israel's blockade of Gaza then read this:
    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n01/roy_01_.html
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Very good article here:


    http://english.daralhayat.com/opinion/c ... story.html
    '...One of Israel's war aims must surely have been to pre-empt any attempt by the incoming US administration of Barack Obama to re-launch the moribund peace process. Valuable months will now be lost clearing up the mess. As for the outgoing Bush administration, the blatant lies of Condoleezza Rice, who blamed the war solely on Hamas, must serve as the damning political epitaph of the most ineffectual U.S. Secretary of State of modern times.
    Israel has never liked Palestinian moderates, for the simple reason that concessions might have to be made to them. To avoid being drawn into negotiations, it has always preferred Palestinian radicals - and when they were not there it has done everything it could to create them. 'How can you negotiate with someone who wants to kill you?' is a familiar Israeli refrain.
    The war on Gaza has confirmed Israel's visceral rejection of any expression of Palestinian nationalism. It will kill to prevent it, as sixty years of wars, assassinations and massacres testify. Consciously or not, Israeli leaders seem to fear that any recognition of Palestinian aspirations undermines the legitimacy of their own national enterprise.
    It may be that the war was launched precisely because Hamas has recently shown signs of moderation. Its key spokesmen - including Khaled Mish'al, head of its political bureau - have expressed their readiness to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. To Israel's dismay, they have begun to distance themselves from the movement's 1987 charter, which calls for Israel's destruction.
    The Qassam rockets were a great embarrassment to the Israeli government. It was unable to stop them except by agreeing a truce. The rockets angered an Israeli population notoriously blind to any suffering but its own. But, in truth, the rockets were no more than highly irritating pin-pricks. The figures speak for themselves. Fewer than 20 Israelis have been killed by Qassam rockets since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. In the same period Israel, displaying its usual astonishing indifference to Arab life, has killed some 2,000 Palestinians. Israeli state terror has been incomparably more lethal than anything Hamas could manage. The death toll continues to mount.
    Israel never liked the truce with Hamas and chose not to respect its terms. Instead of easing the blockade on Gaza -- as it was meant to do -- it tightened it, reducing the crowded, suffering Strip to abject misery. And it unilaterally broke the truce by an armed incursion on 4 November, which killed several Hamas men. In retrospect, this action must be seen as a deliberate attempt to provoke Hamas into a violent response, and thus provide Israel with a casus belli...'
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    BBC defends Gaza appeal decision - Thursday, 22 January 2009
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7846150.stm

    The BBC has defended a decision not to air a TV fund-raising appeal for Gaza, saying it wanted to avoid compromising public confidence in its impartiality.

    It said a decision was taken with other broadcasters not to show the Disasters Emergency Committee crisis appeal on any network in the UK.

    A corporation statement added there were also doubts about "the delivery of aid in a volatile situation".

    DEC said there was "clear evidence" the British public wanted to help.

    In a statement, the BBC said: "The BBC decision was made because of question marks about the delivery of aid in a volatile situation and also to avoid any risk of compromising public confidence in the BBC's impartiality in the context of an ongoing news story.

    "However, the BBC will, of course, continue to report the humanitarian story in Gaza."

    A spokesman for ITV told the Times website: "The DEC did ask broadcasters if they could support the appeal.

    "We assessed the DEC's request carefully against agreed criteria and were unable to reach the consensus which is necessary for an appeal."


    Disasters Emergency Committee Gaza humanitarian appeal:
    Launched on 22 January to raise money for Gaza aid relief and reconstruction
    Participants: Action Aid, British Red Cross, Cafod, Care International, Christian Aid, Concern Worldwide, Help the Aged, Islamic Relief, Merlin, Oxfam, Save the Children, Tearfund, World Vision
    Tel: 0370 60 60 900 or go to DEC website

    DEC is an umbrella organisation representing a number of aid agencies.

    Spokeswoman Shaista Aziz said it was confident in the abilities of DEC members and other parts of the organisation to respond and there was an "overwhelming humanitarian need".

    She added: "We regret the fact that the message we wanted to get across will not reach as many people as hoped."

    Action Aid, the British Red Cross, Cafod, Care International UK, Islamic Relief, Oxfam, Save the Children and Tearfund are among the agencies affiliated to DEC.

    Launching the appeal, DEC chief executive Brendan Gormley said: "DEC agencies have a humanitarian mandate. We are not proposing to attempt to rebuild Gaza... with the public's support we can help relieve short-term needs."

    The British government has pledged to give £30m in humanitarian aid to crisis-torn Gaza.

    At least 1,300 Palestinians were killed, nearly a third of them children, and 5,500 injured in the Israeli operation, which began on 27 December, Palestinian medical sources in Gaza say.

    Israel says that it acted to stop Hamas militants targeting Israeli towns with rocket fire.

    Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians, have been killed, the Israeli army says.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    The thing is, the BBC's alleged impartiality can only benefit the aggressor/the occupier. Therefore, it's not impartial at all.
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    Commy wrote:
    RM291946 wrote:


    With Hamas, it's personal, what militants did to some of my family over there. It's why I'm dug in against them.

    you see the problem here I hope. when Israel goes and kills 1500 Palestinians how many family members do you think they'll be mobilizing against them.

    Except that Palestinians and Jews already hate each other and have a go at each other.
    Us Roma harbour no hate for either, until more recently when Hamas came into the picture.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    RM291946 wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    RM291946 wrote:


    With Hamas, it's personal, what militants did to some of my family over there. It's why I'm dug in against them.

    you see the problem here I hope. when Israel goes and kills 1500 Palestinians how many family members do you think they'll be mobilizing against them.

    Except that Palestinians and Jews already hate each other and have a go at each other.
    Us Roma harbour no hate for either, until more recently when Hamas came into the picture.

    How dare the Palestinians have the audacity to attempt to defend themselves! I can understand how this could lead you to hate them.
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    Byrnzie wrote:

    How dare the Palestinians have the audacity to attempt to defend themselves! I can understand how this could lead you to hate them.

    Are you attempting to state Roma did something to Hamas militants to deserve the vicious torture? Please please say that so I can rip into you.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    RM291946 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    How dare the Palestinians have the audacity to attempt to defend themselves! I can understand how this could lead you to hate them.

    Are you attempting to state Roma did something to Hamas militants to deserve the vicious torture? Please please say that so I can rip into you.
    what vicious torture? you have any facts to back up your argument?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    RM291946 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    How dare the Palestinians have the audacity to attempt to defend themselves! I can understand how this could lead you to hate them.

    Are you attempting to state Roma did something to Hamas militants to deserve the vicious torture? Please please say that so I can rip into you.

    Who's Roma? What are you on about?
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,799
    Byrnzie wrote:
    RM291946 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    How dare the Palestinians have the audacity to attempt to defend themselves! I can understand how this could lead you to hate them.

    Are you attempting to state Roma did something to Hamas militants to deserve the vicious torture? Please please say that so I can rip into you.

    Who's Roma? What are you on about?
    believe she posted before , ethnic gypsy.
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mickeyrat wrote:
    believe she posted before , ethnic gypsy.

    So now the Palestinians are guilty of torturing the Roma gypsies? This should be interesting.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,799
    Byrnzie wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    believe she posted before , ethnic gypsy.

    So now the Palestinians are guilty of torturing the Roma gypsies? This should be interesting.
    No just Hamas. But yeah , I'm tuning in!
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7848673.stm


    BBC urged to transmit Gaza appeal
    Saturday, 24 January 2009

    'The BBC has again been urged to reconsider its decision not to broadcast a charity appeal for Gaza.

    International Development Secretary Douglas Alexander said it was not too late for a reversal to recognise the "immense human suffering".

    A protest is to be held outside Broadcasting House in London after the BBC declined to broadcast appeals by the Disasters Emergency Committee.

    The BBC said it would not compromise its commitment to impartiality.

    Mr Alexander said: "I think the British public ... can distinguish between support for humanitarian aid and perceived partiality in a conflict.

    "I really struggle to see in the face of the immense human suffering of people in Gaza... that this is in any way a credible argument.

    "They still have time to make a different judgement to recognise the immense human suffering."

    He also said people may become concerned that the suffering of people in Gaza was not taken as seriously as suffering in other conflicts.

    BBC Director-General Mark Thompson turned down the request to broadcast the appeal, saying it might jeopardise the public's confidence in the BBC's impartiality.

    His comments were echoed by the BBC's chief operating officer, Caroline Thomson, who said it is important to take all these decisions very seriously.

    She said: "I think what we do for the disaster emergency committee in giving air time for appeals is unique in the BBC... giving time on behalf of a body to appeal for things is a decision that has to be taken very, very carefully.

    "In the case of natural disasters it's straight forward... in the case of man made disasters and wars the issue is much, much more complicated.

    "The most important thing we can do for the people who are suffering is carrying on reporting it and we've done exemplary work in reporting the suffering of the people of Gaza.

    "If we lose the trust of the audience by appearing, however curious it may seem, to support one side rather than another then we will have lost it for the charities themselves as well as everyone else."

    Shadow international development secretary Andrew Mitchell said the decision to broadcast was "completely" a matter for the BBC.

    But he said the appeal should be aired so the public can decide whether to support it.

    ITV and Sky have also said they will not show the appeal, with an ITV spokesman saying that no consensus could be reached.

    The Disasters Emergency Committee - an umbrella organisation for several major aid charities - said it was disappointed its request to run TV and radio appeals was turned down.

    It wanted to raise funds for people in need of food, shelter and medicines as a result of Israel's military action in the Palestinian area.

    Geoffrey Dennis, chief executive of the global humanitarian group Care International, said it was not a time for politics.

    "As far as being impartial is concerned, that's our job... we know exactly what we are doing on the ground, there are a lot of people in real danger at the moment," he said.

    "Fifty per cent of the population in Gaza are under the age of 18, they're not interested in the politics in this, they want to go to school and play football like my son."

    "We don't get involved in the politics, we are saying as all of the major aid agencies in the UK... we need to help these people that are really suffering."

    Veteran politician Tony Benn, who will speak at the protest at Broadcasting House, said the corporation's position made no sense.

    He told BBC Radio 4: "There's been an absolute crisis in Gaza, you can't allow the BBC to say if we help people who are dying we are going to be engaged in controversy."

    Mr Benn will address the pro-Palestinian rally called by the Stop the War Coalition, and is expected to say the BBC's refusal is a "betrayal" of its obligations.

    Following Mr Benn's speech, the demonstrators intend to march to Trafalgar Square via Downing Street.
  • stevehomeair
    stevehomeair Posts: 318
    OR NOT....YOU KILLED JESUS THE ONLY SON OF MAN

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