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Israel should be proud

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    CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    mickeyrat wrote:
    not sure where this belongs. didn't want to start a new thread so.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_ ... ast_carter

    Offers 3 seemingly plausible realities.
    I think the 2 state solution is the best idea...people on both sides have shown they are not comfortable with the current status quo.
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    Commy wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    not sure where this belongs. didn't want to start a new thread so.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_ ... ast_carter

    Offers 3 seemingly plausible realities.
    I think the 2 state solution is the best idea...people on both sides have shown they are not comfortable with the current status quo.

    A one state solution doesn't feel right. There will be a lot of animosity in the population considering they've been in a state of war for over 60 years.
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    CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    NoK wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    not sure where this belongs. didn't want to start a new thread so.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_ ... ast_carter

    Offers 3 seemingly plausible realities.
    I think the 2 state solution is the best idea...people on both sides have shown they are not comfortable with the current status quo.

    A one state solution doesn't feel right. There will be a lot of animosity in the population considering they've been in a state of war for over 60 years.
    if people could put aside differences and accept majority rules...maybe. but that doesn't look likely...


    hey baby...there aint no easy way out...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrPP3qkM0E
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    fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    One-state is the best and only way. A two-state solution, to put it in the words of Ali Abunimah, is an illusion.
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    _outlaw wrote:
    One-state is the best and only way. A two-state solution, to put it in the words of Ali Abunimah, is an illusion.

    One state solution is more viable when it comes to land and resources but not when it comes to the people. I don't think Palestinians would want a soldier who happily shelled their homes killing several members of their family to become their protectors.
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    Commy wrote:
    if people could put aside differences and accept majority rules...maybe. but that doesn't look likely...


    hey baby...there aint no easy way out...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrPP3qkM0E

    I prefer the Vedder version.. sounds a lot more emotional.. then again I am on a PJ message board so thats expected
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    CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    NoK wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    if people could put aside differences and accept majority rules...maybe. but that doesn't look likely...


    hey baby...there aint no easy way out...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrPP3qkM0E

    I prefer the Vedder version.. sounds a lot more emotional.. then again I am on a PJ message board so thats expected
    this one?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wkxAmQo-Vw
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    Commy wrote:

    thats the one! sounds a lot more intense when he sings it.. great stuff.. thanks!
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    Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Wouldn't you guys feel like firing rockets if someone took over your land?
    Let's say for example, you live in the state of California and some group force their way onto your land and occupy it. Wouldn't you feel a bit pissed off? :?
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    this shit just doesn't end..

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/israel ... 35831.html

    Israel accused of using farmers as human shields
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    NoK wrote:
    this shit just doesn't end..

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/israel ... 35831.html

    Israel accused of using farmers as human shields
    Oh I'm sure more is going to come to light.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    SolarWorldSolarWorld Posts: 1,902
    Anyone watch 60 minutes this sunday? I just listened to it, you can grab it from itunes... If I was a Palestinian living in the West Bank I would be firing those big bottle rockets over the walls every chance I could. The Israeli Government is seriously fucked up...
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    flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    SolarWorld wrote:
    Anyone watch 60 minutes this sunday? I just listened to it, you can grab it from itunes... If I was a Palestinian living in the West Bank I would be firing those big bottle rockets over the walls every chance I could. The Israeli Government is seriously fucked up...

    Outlaw posted this link to the video a couple of days ago. Very eye opening story. The quartering of Israeli troops in Palestinian homes is unbelievable.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752349n
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    ogre1213ogre1213 Posts: 391
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    edited January 2009
    455264374-palestinian-boy-mohammed-kutkut-14-right-covers-his-face-as.jpg

    In this picture
    Palestinian boy Mohammed Kutkut, 14, right, covers his face as he sits next to the name sign of his killed friend Ahed Qaddas in the Fakhoura boys school in Jebaliya, northern Gaza strip, Saturday, Jan. 24, 2009. Three friends of his class where killed when the Israeli army shelled Jebaliya in the past weeks. Tens of thousands of children have flocked back to schools throughout the Gaza Strip, days after Israel ended its fierce military operation against the territory's rulers."
    Post edited by NoK on
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    Report: Israeli Settlement Construction Jumps 60 % in 2008
    http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsD ... 4C00399A2A

    http://www.peacenow.org.il/data/SIP_STO ... 5/3935.pdf

    Construction in Israeli settlements on the occupied West Bank jumped 60 percent in 2008 in the wake of the re-launching of the Middle East peace process at a U.S. conference, the Peace Now watchdog group said on Wednesday.

    At least 1,257 new structures were built in settlements over the course of 2008, compared to 800 erected the previous year, a report said. The ground was also prepared for 63 new structures.

    Building in wildcat outposts -- settlements not authorised by the government -- saw a 2.5-fold increase, with 261 new structures built in 2008 compared with 98 the previous year, Peace Now said.

    "Expansion continues -- the settlers do not need to wait for Bibi," it said, referring to right-wing opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu widely predicted by the polls to become the nation's next prime minister after February 10 elections.

    Construction also boomed in annexed east Jerusalem and heated up especially after the international conference in Annapolis in November 2007 that saw Israelis and Palestinians formally relaunch their sputtering peace talks.

    Tenders were issued to build 1,184 housing units in east Jerusalem in 2008, compared with 793 issued in 2007. A staggering 94 percent of the 2007 tenders were issued in December, right after the Annapolis conference.

    In addition, plans to construct 2,730 housing units in east Jerusalem received final approval in 2008, compared with 391 units in 2007.

    Israeli settlement in Palestinian territory is one of the thorniest issues at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    The report was published as new U.S. peace envoy George Mitchell arrived in the region to push for peace negotiations.(AFP)
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    ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    ogre1213 wrote:
    you are all blind to see that israel has to take care of business

    protecting its citizens from madmen that hate freedom, hate democracy, hate everything and unleash a real and true terror and fear on people that just want to live and be free

    all terrorists care about is killing and destroying

    do you really think israel wanted to kill so many children and women and innocent civilians? NO

    do you really think theyre goal was to kill so many children and women and innocent civilians? NO

    if it was we would have been done by now and everyone in the gaza strip would be dead


    that was not the goal

    it tears my heart out that we had to do something like this, that so many innocent people died

    but it has to be done to root out the evil from the good people

    these are a few crazy hateful people that are ruining lives and killing people for no reason

    they are making it difficult for people in that area of the world to live their lives

    and it bothers me that there are people in America and the world that agree with them

    it makes me truly sick
    SORRY
    Isreal should go back to the borders the UN demanded. It should abandon the settlements made on palestinian land. As far as I see it isreal is occupying palestinian land and as such are attacked by the people they are oppressing.
    You want peace In Isreal or do you want more of palestine
    If I was a from Palestine I also would be doing as they have
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NoK wrote:
    Report: Israeli Settlement Construction Jumps 60 % in 2008
    http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsD ... 4C00399A2A

    http://www.peacenow.org.il/data/SIP_STO ... 5/3935.pdf

    Construction in Israeli settlements on the occupied West Bank jumped 60 percent in 2008 in the wake of the re-launching of the Middle East peace process at a U.S. conference, the Peace Now watchdog group said on Wednesday.

    At least 1,257 new structures were built in settlements over the course of 2008, compared to 800 erected the previous year, a report said. The ground was also prepared for 63 new structures.

    Building in wildcat outposts -- settlements not authorised by the government -- saw a 2.5-fold increase, with 261 new structures built in 2008 compared with 98 the previous year, Peace Now said.

    "Expansion continues -- the settlers do not need to wait for Bibi," it said, referring to right-wing opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu widely predicted by the polls to become the nation's next prime minister after February 10 elections.

    Construction also boomed in annexed east Jerusalem and heated up especially after the international conference in Annapolis in November 2007 that saw Israelis and Palestinians formally relaunch their sputtering peace talks.

    Tenders were issued to build 1,184 housing units in east Jerusalem in 2008, compared with 793 issued in 2007. A staggering 94 percent of the 2007 tenders were issued in December, right after the Annapolis conference.

    In addition, plans to construct 2,730 housing units in east Jerusalem received final approval in 2008, compared with 391 units in 2007.

    Israeli settlement in Palestinian territory is one of the thorniest issues at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    The report was published as new U.S. peace envoy George Mitchell arrived in the region to push for peace negotiations.(AFP)

    Yep! That's peace in action!
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    RM291946 wrote:
    You are the one who quoted me after I stated why I hate Hamas, saying the above about Palestinians defending themselves. Obviously you simply weren't paying attention to what you were responding to, so I will leave it at that.

    To whichever one who asked for proof, it's not about that. I only brought it up in the first place cos one of you said I was dug in against them and was too closed minded. so I wrote about that to explain that I'm not being closed minded, it's that they gave me reason to hate them. If you go back, you'll see that.

    Please go back again and explain to me why you hate Hamas.
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Here is what I believe:

    Israel for defense, political, public pressure and other reasons, finally decided to retaliate against the Hamas rockets. It's been years and years of rocket fire, without any major retaliation from Israel. I do think Israel was justified in their response, and I think other nations would certainly do the same.

    That being said, I do not think Israel's response (justified or otherwise) was the right thing to do in this situation. Most importantly, innocent people have died. Israel is democratic, liberal, they practice human rights. Hamas and Islamist governments do not do this. Ever wonder why Israel always gets held under double standards? They are expected to be the moral/ethical nation (which they are most of the time). if Israel messes up once, they face huge public outcry. But when Hamas murdered 100s of Palestinians in their civil battle with Fatah, there was no public outcry.

    I don't think what Israel did was right. But the public needs to recognize the impossible situation that they face. And if the public truly cares about the Palestinian people, they would rally out against their Hamas leaders who seriously do not have peace and their own people's best interests at heart.

    Please explain to me how you feel about the 3 year Israeli blockade of Gaza which was described by the U.N as a crime against humanity? http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane. ... endocument Also, how do you feel about the fact that Israel and the U.S continue to resist a two-state settlement?

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/articl ... 11&ar=2542
    'Beyond restoring its deterrence capacity, Israel's main goal in the Gaza slaughter was to fend off the latest threat posed by Palestinian moderation. For the past three decades the international community has consistently supported a settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict that calls for two states based on a full Israeli withdrawal to its June 1967 border, and a "just resolution" of the refugee question based on the right of return and compensation. The vote on the annual U.N. General Assembly resolution, "Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine," supporting these terms for resolving the conflict in 2008 was 164 in favor, 7 against (Israel, United States, Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau), and 3 abstentions. At the regional level the Arab League in March 2002 unanimously put forth a peace initiative on this basis, which it has subsequently reaffirmed. In recent times Hamas has repeatedly signaled its own acceptance of such a settlement. For example, in March 2008 Khalid Mishal, head of Hamas's Political Bureau, stated in an interview:

    There is an opportunity to deal with this conflict in a manner different than Israel and, behind it, the U.S. is dealing with it today. There is an opportunity to achieve a Palestinian national consensus on a political program based on the 1967 borders, and this is an exceptional circumstance, in which most Palestinian forces, including Hamas, accept a state on the 1967 borders....There is also an Arab consensus on this demand, and this is a historic situation. But no one is taking advantage of this opportunity. No one is moving to cooperate with this opportunity. Even this minimum that has been accepted by the Palestinians and the Arabs has been rejected by Israel and by the U.S.[29]

    Israel is fully cognizant that the Hamas Charter is not an insurmountable obstacle to a two-state settlement on the June 1967 border. "[T]he Hamas leadership has recognized that its ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future," a former Mossad head recently observed. "[T]hey are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967....They know that the moment a Palestinian state is established with their cooperation, they will be obligated to change the rules of the game: They will have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original ideological goals."[30]'


    And, I'd like you to answer this question: Why are illegal Jewish-only settlements still being built?
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Check this out:

    Turkish speaker at the World Economic Forum blasts Shimon Peres over the attack on Gaza:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja ... s-row-gaza
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Gaza desperately short of food after Israel destroys farmland
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/fe ... ood-crisis

    Officials warn of 'destruction of all means of life' after the three-week conflict leaves agriculture in the region in ruins

    Peter Beaumont in Gaza
    The Observer, Sunday 1 February 2009



    'Gaza's 1.5 million people are facing a food crisis as a result of the destruction of great areas of farmland during the Israeli invasion.

    According to the World Food Programme, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation and Palestinian officials, between 35% and 60% of the agriculture industry has been wrecked by the three-week Israeli attack, which followed two years of economic siege.

    Christine van Nieuwenhuyse, the World Food Programme's country director, said: "We are hearing that 60% of the land in the north - where the farming was most intensive - may not be exploitable again. It looks to me like a disaster. It is not just farmland, but poultry as well.

    "When we have given a food ration in Gaza, it was never a full ration but to complement the diet. Now it is going to be almost impossible for Gaza to produce the food it needs for the next six to eight months, assuming that the agriculture can be rehabilitated. We will give people a full ration."

    The FAO estimates that 13,000 families who depend directly on herding, farming and fishing have suffered significant damage. "Before the blockade and the attack," said Ahmad Sourani, director of the Agricultural Development Association of Gaza, which runs programmes with charities such as Britain's Christian Aid, "Gaza produced half of its own food. Now that has declined by 25%. In addition, a quarter of the population depends on agriculture for income. What we have seen in large areas of farmland is the destruction of all means of life.

    "We have seen a creeping process of farmers being forced out of the buffer zone around Gaza's border. Before 2000 we could approach and farm within 50m of the fence. After Israel's evacuation of the settlements in 2005, the Israeli army imposed a buffer of 300m. Although it is elastic, now there are areas, depending on the situation, where farmers cannot reach their farms in safety within an area of over a kilometre. It is indirect confiscation by fear. My fear is that, if it remains, it will become de facto. Bear in mind that 30% of Gaza's most productive land is within that buffer zone."

    The wholesale destruction of farms, greenhouses, dairy parlours, livestock, chicken coops and orchards has damaged food production, which was already hit by the blockade.

    Buildings heavily damaged during Israel's Operation Cast Lead included much of its agricultural infrastructure. The Ministry of Agriculture was targeted, the agriculture faculty at al-Azhar university in Beit Hanoun largely destroyed, and the offices of the Palestinian Agricultural Relief Committees in Zaitoun - which provides cheap food for the poor - ransacked and vandalised by soldiers who left abusive graffiti.


    Although international and local officials are still gathering figures, they believe that scores, perhaps hundreds, of wells and water sources have been damaged and several hundred greenhouses have been levelled, as well as severe damage inflicted on 60,000-75,000 dunums of Gaza's 175,000 dunums (44,000 acres) of farmable land.

    As well as the physical damage done by Israeli bulldozers, bombing and shelling, land has been contaminated by munitions, including white phosphorous, burst sewerage pipes, animal carcasses and even asbestos used in roofing. In many places, the damage is extreme. In Jabal al-Rayas, once a thriving farming community, every building has been knocked down, and even the cattle killed and left to lie rotting in the fields.

    In al-Atatra, Ahmad Hassan, 65, the overseer of an orchard that once had hundreds of lemon and orange trees, surveyed an area flattened by bulldozers. "This was the well," he said, showing a pile of bulldozed concrete. "We can clear the ground in two weeks. Then what? The well is gone. The pump has been destroyed. And where will the trees come from to replant the land?"


    Van Nieuwenhuyse said: "Already, the price of meat has tripled since the Israeli operation began. What is more worrying is the situation over vegetables. Protein we can help with, but before this there were already deficiencies in the diet. Now they will have to rely on Israel."

    It was a view echoed by Hassan Abu Etah, the deputy agriculture minister in Gaza. "It has all been hugely damaged. And it affects all of Gaza, not simply the farmers. We produced some of what we needed. It makes you wonder whether they wanted to change Gaza from production to consumption."

    In the heavily damaged village of Khuza'a, near Khan Younis, Salam Najar surveyed the no-go zone that extends from the last houses in the village to the border fence where Israeli farmland begins. "Most of the families here have farmed that side. Now no one feels safe to go there. They have destroyed it all."
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    flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    I dont understand how the Israelis can keep arguing this was about rocket attacks with a straight face. The only bright spot to this bullshit is I believe a good part of the world has finally realized the Israelis are the aggressors and full of shit.
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    NoKNoK Posts: 824
    I dont understand how the Israelis can keep arguing this was about rocket attacks with a straight face. The only bright spot to this bullshit is I believe a good part of the world has finally realized the Israelis are the aggressors and full of shit.

    Yet nothing on the ground changes.. cause people realise it but they don't care.
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    AusticmanAusticman Posts: 1,323
    Even the Israeli PM admits there response to the bombing are over the top.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=736402

    "Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert earlier vowed to deal "a severe and disproportionate Israeli response" to Palestinian rocket fire against southern Israel since a January 18 ceasefire brought an end to its 22-day war on Gaza."
    I can't go the library anymore, everyone STINKS!!
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Austicman wrote:
    Even the Israeli PM admits there response to the bombing are over the top.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=736402

    "Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert earlier vowed to deal "a severe and disproportionate Israeli response" to Palestinian rocket fire against southern Israel since a January 18 ceasefire brought an end to its 22-day war on Gaza."

    This is because Jews during WWII suffered at the hands of the Nazis. Therefore they are now above the law and can act as they please.
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