***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Wobbie

P.S. the attendance numbers for your last place team are fucking impressive. Is it actually still full?

Johnny Abruzzo

The Fixer wrote:

There should be a rule that they have to play MSG every two years. Nothing compares to that place.

You must spray your shorts over New York 3 times a week.

imalive wrote:

P.S. the attendance numbers for your last place team are fucking impressive. Is it actually still full?

Usually pretty full, but sometimes people are no shows (like me on Friday - fucking got stuck at work) or hang out in bars and such.


btw - I'm also much more excited about MMJ than the PJ show.

Jearlpam0925

Wish I was going to that MMJ show, but the priorities of the Philly Folk Fest beckon...

Johnny Abruzzo

I really miss this guy. :roll:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/8238905/texas-rangers-ron-washington-roy-oswalt-go-another-inning

Go back to your construction work already - how many more millions do you need?

The Fixer

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

There should be a rule that they have to play MSG every two years. Nothing compares to that place.

You must spray your shorts over New York 3 times a week.

.

I love NYC, but if that's not exaggerating then I don't know what is

81

who's pitching the 18th?

The Fixer

Been a lot of talk about this Lee waivers thing and whether the phils should move him (and his salary). I didn't think they should trade him until I read this, which has me second guessing myself. Maybe they can trade him for a competent GM


Imagine that you bought a new car with the odometer barely moved, and five-year financing made the payments heavier toward the back end of the deal. For almost two full years, you've gotten a chance to run it at full speed.



In that time, you've put a lot of miles on the car. You have started to notice a few pings in the engine. The tread on the tires has started to show signs of wear. Depreciation has begun -- really, from the first day you signed the papers.

Then, out of the blue, someone offers you this deal: They'll take the car off your hands and all the payments, including the whopper balloon bill that's due at the end.



Unless the car came with some sentimental value, you'd take that extraordinary proposal in a second.



In a parallel world, these are generally the circumstances that the Philadelphia Phillies are in today with pitcher Cliff Lee. The best business decision for them is to take the opportunity to dump his contract on the Los Angeles Dodgers. "A no-brainer," said a high-ranking rival official. "From a business standpoint, it's an easy call."



To review: The Phillies signed Lee after the 2010 season to a heavily backloaded five-year, $120 million deal, and as of today, the left-hander is still owed about $95 million. Lee, who turns 34 years old at the end of this month, is set to make about $7.5 million for the rest of this season and $25 million for each of the next three seasons. At the outset of the 2016 season, Lee has a $27.5 million option with a $12.5 million buyout. Lee will be 37 years old when the 2016 season begins, so unless he develops a really hard knuckleball and becomes the next version of R.A. Dickey, there is almost no chance that the Phillies (or any other team) would pick up that option and give Lee the highest salary of any pitcher in the majors when he's at such an advanced age.

So, in effect, Lee is owed $87.5 million for the next three seasons of work, when he will be the highest-paid player in the majors. His deal could cost $102.5 million over four years, if his option vests.

The Phillies talked with other teams about Lee before the July 31 trade deadline, and then on Friday, the Dodgers were awarded a waiver claim on the left-hander. The Phillies essentially have three options: They can try to work out a trade with the Dodgers; they could just give Lee away, like the Toronto Blue Jays a few years ago when they allowed the Chicago White Sox to take Alex Rios on waivers; or they could pull Lee back from waivers.



The Phillies are keeping Lee, Ruben Amaro said the other day. But Amaro tends to change his mind, and it would be in the best interest of the Phillies if he did so in this situation. Dumping Lee is the smart play, although it would take some guts. There would have to be an admission of miscalculation -- first in the initial valuation of the player, and also a conversation about why the Phillies didn't work out a deal before the deadline for a prospect, such as the Rangers' Mike Olt.



The Phillies told other teams they wouldn't eat any of the money owed to Lee, which made any deal impossible in the minds of rival executives. If the Phillies had been more flexible, they might've gotten more traction in their trade talks and gotten a good young player in return for the lefty.



That's not really an option on Aug. 5, so it's spilled milk at this point. There's not much sense in worrying about it. The Phillies should focus on what's to come.



Last year, in the first season of Lee's deal, he continued to pitch like one of baseball's best pitchers, going 17-6 with a 2.40 ERA. This year, not so much, and some of his erosion in performance can probably be blamed on the Phillies' overall struggles. Lee has a 3.73 ERA, and he's allowed a much higher rate of homers.



"He's still a really good pitcher," said one scout the other day.



But is he going to be worth $29 million annually for the next three seasons, which is essentially what the Phillies would owe him?



One really smart general manager noted this summer that when you sign a player to a long-term deal (five or more years) what you are realistically hoping for is peak performance in the first couple of seasons, then a period in the middle of the deal when the player is still good -- but maybe not as great as he once was -- before a steep decline at the end of the deal.



The Washington Nationals would probably jump at the chance to step away from the Jayson Werth contract. The Boston Red Sox would love to get out of the last five years of the Carl Crawford deal. If the New York Yankees were offered a parachute on the last five seasons of the Alex Rodriguez deal, they'd take it. The Phillies owe about $110 million to Ryan Howard through the next four years and two months -- and of course they should welcome the chance to get out of that contract.



Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols and Joey Votto all signed massive contracts, and at the back end of those deals, their teams will be paying more for legacy than for production. The Yankees got to the end of Derek Jeter's 10-year deal and then negotiated a cut in salary for him by about 40 percent. Nobody, besides Barry Bonds and a few others, gets better as they advance well past their 30th birthday.



The Phillies have already gotten the first couple of years of the Lee deal, when the odometer was at its lowest, and what they have is a chance to walk away from the deal when Lee's performance is most likely to decline and when he's about to get even more expensive.



The Phillies have saved a lot of money already in unloading the contracts of Shane Victorino and Hunter Pence, and if they get rid of Lee's contract, they could put themselves in position to be much more aggressive. They've made mistakes and they're paying for them, but now the Dodgers -- with their bottomless wallet -- are essentially offering them a bailout. The Phillies would be crazy to pass it up, unless they are confident he's going to perform at a $29 million level during the next three seasons.

Cliffy6745

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I really miss this guy. :roll:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/8238905/texas-rangers-ron-washington-roy-oswalt-go-another-inning

Go back to your construction work already - how many more millions do you need?

He's such a bitch. Rangers sure have the market cornered on old prima donna pitchers.

Johnny Abruzzo

The Fixer wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

There should be a rule that they have to play MSG every two years. Nothing compares to that place.

You must spray your shorts over New York 3 times a week.

I love NYC, but if that's not exaggerating then I don't know what is

I hope it's exaggerating.

The Fixer

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

You must spray your shorts over New York 3 times a week.

I love NYC, but if that's not exaggerating then I don't know what is

I hope it's exaggerating.

I meant the part about bringing it up 3 times a week. after all, it is the best city in the world...with the best arena (by far).

Anyone watching this women's soccer game? glad to see pete carroll is still coaching our girls

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

Anyone watching this women's soccer game? glad to see pete carroll is still coaching our girls

I hear it's fucking awesome. Going to try and put it on now online.

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Anyone watching this women's soccer game? glad to see pete carroll is still coaching our girls

I hear it's fucking awesome. Going to try and put it on now online.

yeah, just got back from gym and US was tying it up on a PK. kinda questionable call

rapinoe is really good. cool story about her homosexuality in SI last week.

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Anyone watching this women's soccer game? glad to see pete carroll is still coaching our girls

I hear it's fucking awesome. Going to try and put it on now online.

yeah, just got back from gym and US was tying it up on a PK. kinda questionable call

rapinoe is really good. cool story about her homosexuality in SI last week.

Nice, I saw it was 1-1 and all of a sudden a co worker said it was 3-3. Wild.

Heard it was a good article. Will have to check it out.

Johnny Abruzzo

The Fixer wrote:

I meant the part about bringing it up 3 times a week. after all, it is the best city in the world...with the best arena (by far).

Whatever you say dude. Well the arena's cool at least, being right down there in the middle of everything. The city - ugh.

Cliffy6745

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

I meant the part about bringing it up 3 times a week. after all, it is the best city in the world...with the best arena (by far).

Whatever you say dude. Well the arena's cool at least, being right down there in the middle of everything. The city - ugh.

Anyone who doesn't like the city has only spent time in midtown. There is no way you can head to the neighborhoods and not like it. It's a sterotype of midtown just like NYC sterotypes Philly as the boonies. I love both cities and have spent time all over both. Both have great things to offer. At this point in my life, I can't see myself living there paying that rent for the space with the easy access to NYC from Philly. I'd prefer to go up every couple weeks and have a rooftop deck here for 1/4th of the price. That said, it's an awesome fucking city, both are.

Cliffy6745

Damn! So many chances.

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

I meant the part about bringing it up 3 times a week. after all, it is the best city in the world...with the best arena (by far).

Whatever you say dude. Well the arena's cool at least, being right down there in the middle of everything. The city - ugh.

Anyone who doesn't like the city has only spent time in midtown. There is no way you can head to the neighborhoods and not like it. It's a sterotype of midtown just like NYC sterotypes Philly as the boonies. I love both cities and have spent time all over both. Both have great things to offer. At this point in my life, I can't see myself living there paying that rent for the space with the easy access to NYC from Philly. I'd prefer to go up every couple weeks and have a rooftop deck here for 1/4th of the price. That said, it's an awesome fucking city, both are.

agreed. I don't know why people rip NYC (unless you're a complete moron like john rocker). what's not to like???

As for MSG...the location is a small part of what's so great about it.

oh shit, that goal was insane

Cliffy6745

Good god that was fucking awesome!!

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

agreed. I don't know why people rip NYC (unless you're a complete moron like john rocker). what's not to like???

As for MSG...the location is a small part of what's so great about it.

oh shit, that goal was insane

I fucking despise the location of MSG. I call it Baghdad. I despise Penn Station. Convenient but nothing worthwhile there. All the bars are filled with creeps cheating on their wives before they head out to the suburbs. haha. Definitely convenient as shit though and right in the middle of a lot, just aren't a lot of great spots there.

Johnny Abruzzo

We're going to MSG on Dec. 22 for a college hoops game at noon. What should we do after the game? Hanging out, dinner etc. Since you guys are the NYC experts and all.