***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

pjhawks

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

and it's not bothering ryan because he has been damn productive this year as usual.

my biggest argument against fixer and cliffy is you two suggest that anyone could drive in the runs that Arod and Howard do if they were in the same spot and i call that utter nonsense. only a handful or more could. if it was true Jimmy Rollins would be in the top 5 in RBIs since he spent the 1st 75% of the season hitting behind a guy who was leading the league in on-base percentage at the time - oh and he had a whopping 5 RBIs in those 1st 30 games with that. not quite as easy as you say.

He's beating a dead horse here, as usual, but J-Roll's lack of RBI's hitting behind Polly was telling. There's something to be said for a player who gets on base vs. a player who clears the bases.

yes i know i am but just once i want Fixer and Cliffy to acknoledge its not quite as easy as they say and anyone can't do it.

anyway can't wait to watch the best record in baseball take on that 3rd place team tonight.

of course i'm sure we will hear about any Ks from the 4th hitter (but nothing about his man-crush striking out against a single-A guy last night haha).

The Fixer

pjhawks wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

and it's not bothering ryan because he has been damn productive this year as usual.

my biggest argument against fixer and cliffy is you two suggest that anyone could drive in the runs that Arod and Howard do if they were in the same spot and i call that utter nonsense. only a handful or more could. if it was true Jimmy Rollins would be in the top 5 in RBIs since he spent the 1st 75% of the season hitting behind a guy who was leading the league in on-base percentage at the time - oh and he had a whopping 5 RBIs in those 1st 30 games with that. not quite as easy as you say.

He's beating a dead horse here, as usual, but J-Roll's lack of RBI's hitting behind Polly was telling. There's something to be said for a player who gets on base vs. a player who clears the bases.

yes i know i am but just once i want Fixer and Cliffy to acknoledge its not quite as easy as they say and anyone can't do it.

anyway can't wait to watch the best record in baseball take on that 3rd place team tonight.

of course i'm sure we will hear about any Ks from the 4th hitter (but nothing about his man-crush striking out against a single-A guy last night haha).

rico brogna was the phils cleanup hitter in the late 90s. he had back to back 100 RBI seasons for them. do you think he's a good hitter? I don't

pjhawks

The Fixer wrote:

did you read the article cliffy sent? howard has the most ABs with runners on base in MLB. and it's not even close.

any good hitter will knock in runs if they are in the right spot of the lineup. RBI are more indicative of lineup production than individual performance. (that's not a knock on howard...just pointing out that RBI are an awful way to gauge individual performance).

but wait our offense is awful isn't it?????????????????? :roll: :roll: :roll:

and i dispute that anyone would drive in the same amount of runs - see Rollins, Jimmy - but ignore that for your own arguments.

The Fixer

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

did you read the article cliffy sent? howard has the most ABs with runners on base in MLB. and it's not even close.

any good hitter will knock in runs if they are in the right spot of the lineup. RBI are more indicative of lineup production than individual performance. (that's not a knock on howard...just pointing out that RBI are an awful way to gauge individual performance).

but wait our offense is awful isn't it?????????????????? :roll: :roll: :roll:

and i dispute that anyone would drive in the same amount of runs - see Rollins, Jimmy - but ignore that for your own arguments.

their offense is not good enough to reach their goal of winning it all (even when their best hitter returns later this month).

not sure why you want to keep bringing up rollins? he was hitting third for a month. you really want to put a lot of worth into that? as usual, you need a stronger case dude. you really need to stick to college hoops

pjhawks

The Fixer wrote:

rico brogna was the phils cleanup hitter in the late 90s. he had back to back 100 RBI seasons for them. do you think he's a good hitter? I don't

he actually wasn't a bad hitter. I'm sure you can look up his WAR and OPS OBS and STFU stats but i don't need to look them up to make a judgment. can you think for yourself or do you only get information from a spreadsheet?

and if your braves are going to take over 1st by memorial day (17 days) they might want to take at least 2 out 3 this series (or should they worry about getting into 2nd place 1st?)

Cliffy6745

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

did you read the article cliffy sent? howard has the most ABs with runners on base in MLB. and it's not even close.

any good hitter will knock in runs if they are in the right spot of the lineup. RBI are more indicative of lineup production than individual performance. (that's not a knock on howard...just pointing out that RBI are an awful way to gauge individual performance).

but wait our offense is awful isn't it?????????????????? :roll: :roll: :roll:

and i dispute that anyone would drive in the same amount of runs - see Rollins, Jimmy - but ignore that for your own arguments.

You can't compare a middle infielder to a power hitting first baseman. Of course Rollins isn't going to drive in the same number as Howard because he doesn't have the power.

jamminpearls

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

did you read the article cliffy sent? howard has the most ABs with runners on base in MLB. and it's not even close.

any good hitter will knock in runs if they are in the right spot of the lineup. RBI are more indicative of lineup production than individual performance. (that's not a knock on howard...just pointing out that RBI are an awful way to gauge individual performance).

but wait our offense is awful isn't it?????????????????? :roll: :roll: :roll:

and i dispute that anyone would drive in the same amount of runs - see Rollins, Jimmy - but ignore that for your own arguments.

You can't compare a middle infielder to a power hitting first baseman. Of course Rollins isn't going to drive in the same number as Howard because he doesn't have the power.

I'm thinking his point is that the same guys are on base when Howards's up as Rollins for the most part. As noted before Hr's aren't the only way to get RBI's so power isn't a valid reason imo.

The Fixer

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

rico brogna was the phils cleanup hitter in the late 90s. he had back to back 100 RBI seasons for them. do you think he's a good hitter? I don't

he actually wasn't a bad hitter. I'm sure you can look up his WAR and OPS OBS and STFU stats but i don't need to look them up to make a judgment. can you think for yourself or do you only get information from a spreadsheet?

and if your braves are going to take over 1st by memorial day (17 days) they might want to take at least 2 out 3 this series (or should they worry about getting into 2nd place 1st?)

Quality post. Especially your first line

Cliffy6745

jamminpearls wrote:

I'm thinking his point is that the same guys are on base when Howards's up as Rollins for the most part. As noted before Hr's aren't the only way to get RBI's so power isn't a valid reason imo.

Power is a valid reason because the harder you hit the ball the more likely it is to find the ground, or seats. No one would argue Rollins specifically would have the same number of RBIs but there are plenty of players that would.

If Jeter who is a first ballot hall of famer batted cleanup in his prime, he wouldn't have the RBI numbers of Arod.

You can't compare a player like Rollins or Jeter to a player like Howard. Of course they would never have the same number of RBIs.

jamminpearls

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

I'm thinking his point is that the same guys are on base when Howards's up as Rollins for the most part. As noted before Hr's aren't the only way to get RBI's so power isn't a valid reason imo.

Power is a valid reason because the harder you hit the ball the more likely it is to find the ground, or seats. No one would argue Rollins specifically would have the same number of RBIs but there are plenty of players that would.

If Jeter who is a first ballot hall of famer batted cleanup in his prime, he wouldn't have the RBI numbers of Arod.

You can't compare a player like Rollins or Jeter to a player like Howard. Of course they would never have the same number of RBIs.

I'm not comparing them,i'm saying his point imo is that not every good player can produce great numbers. It takes a special player to knock in 680 RBI's in 5yrs.

pjhawks

The Fixer wrote:

Quality post. Especially your first line

wel i'd say .265 21 homers and around 95 RBIs averages and 152 games played averaged for 3 years in Philly is spot on 'NOT BAD' as i said. not great, but not bad is it not?

see i didn't need those stats to know he was 'not bad' but my memory serves me correct once i did look those up.

Cliffy6745

jamminpearls wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

I'm thinking his point is that the same guys are on base when Howards's up as Rollins for the most part. As noted before Hr's aren't the only way to get RBI's so power isn't a valid reason imo.

Power is a valid reason because the harder you hit the ball the more likely it is to find the ground, or seats. No one would argue Rollins specifically would have the same number of RBIs but there are plenty of players that would.

If Jeter who is a first ballot hall of famer batted cleanup in his prime, he wouldn't have the RBI numbers of Arod.

You can't compare a player like Rollins or Jeter to a player like Howard. Of course they would never have the same number of RBIs.

I'm not comparing them,i'm saying his point imo is that not every good player can produce great numbers. It takes a special player to knock in 680 RBI's in 5yrs.

With a special team around him.

The Fixer

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Quality post. Especially your first line

wel i'd say .265 21 homers and around 95 RBIs averages and 152 games played averaged for 3 years in Philly is spot on 'NOT BAD' as i said. not great, but not bad is it not?

He sucked as a hitter dude. By far his best asset was his glove.

As if RBI wasn't bad enough, now we are using games played to gauge talent. Ugh, we are going in the wrong direction. I give up

Cliffy6745

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Quality post. Especially your first line

wel i'd say .265 21 homers and around 95 RBIs averages and 152 games played averaged for 3 years in Philly is spot on 'NOT BAD' as i said. not great, but not bad is it not?

see i didn't need those stats to know he was 'not bad' but my memory serves me correct once i did look those up.

Those numbers are replacement level at best.

pjhawks

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Quality post. Especially your first line

wel i'd say .265 21 homers and around 95 RBIs averages and 152 games played averaged for 3 years in Philly is spot on 'NOT BAD' as i said. not great, but not bad is it not?

see i didn't need those stats to know he was 'not bad' but my memory serves me correct once i did look those up.

Those numbers are replacement level at best.

i said NOT BAD - do you guys understand english? jeezus h. christ i didn't say the guy was ryan fucking howard or even jimmy fucking rollins. i said NOT BAD. if .260 sucks and replacement level then 90% of major leaguers suck according to you guys. my god.....

Cliffy6745

pjhawks wrote:

i said NOT BAD - do you guys understand english? jeezus h. christ i didn't say the guy was ryan fucking howard or even jimmy fucking rollins. i said NOT BAD. if .260 sucks and replacement level then 90% of major leaguers suck according to you guys. my god.....

Maybe the reason you like Ryan Howard so much is because you have low expectations. Morgan Ensberg hit .263 for his career for fucks sake.

pjhawks

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

i said NOT BAD - do you guys understand english? jeezus h. christ i didn't say the guy was ryan fucking howard or even jimmy fucking rollins. i said NOT BAD. if .260 sucks and replacement level then 90% of major leaguers suck according to you guys. my god.....

Maybe the reason you like Ryan Howard so much is because you have low expectations. Morgan Ensberg hit .263 for his career for fucks sake.

you do know i was talking about rico brogna do you not? i know you come from new york so some things don't take so well :roll: :roll: :roll:

Cliffy6745

pjhawks wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

i said NOT BAD - do you guys understand english? jeezus h. christ i didn't say the guy was ryan fucking howard or even jimmy fucking rollins. i said NOT BAD. if .260 sucks and replacement level then 90% of major leaguers suck according to you guys. my god.....

Maybe the reason you like Ryan Howard so much is because you have low expectations. Morgan Ensberg hit .263 for his career for fucks sake.

you do know i was talking about rico brogna do you not? i know you come from new york so some things don't take so well :roll: :roll: :roll:

I am aware of who you are talking about, point was if you think .260 is not bad, you have pretty low expectations of a hitter.

The Juggler

you four are insufferable. jeez.

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Quality post. Especially your first line

wel i'd say .265 21 homers and around 95 RBIs averages and 152 games played averaged for 3 years in Philly is spot on 'NOT BAD' as i said. not great, but not bad is it not?

see i didn't need those stats to know he was 'not bad' but my memory serves me correct once i did look those up.

Those numbers are replacement level at best.

also, I didn't have to look anything up. I'm a phils fan, I follow them closely, and I remember stuff like this.

After looking into ole rico's stats I did notice that he has a career OBP of .320. His career WAR is -1.9 . I wouldn't call that 'Not Bad'...I would call it terrible.

Didn't think I'd see it, but this tops the Zach Duke defense