Toronto Maple Leafs Thread

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  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    Speaking of injuries, when Tucker went feet first into the boards I said to my gf, "I've done that." only I did it with a lot more speed and couldn't walk right for 2 months or so. Did he play last night? I figured he bruised the bone in his foot.
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Rygar wrote:
    Speaking of injuries, when Tucker went feet first into the boards I said to my gf, "I've done that." only I did it with a lot more speed and couldn't walk right for 2 months or so. Did he play last night? I figured he bruised the bone in his foot.

    Yes he played, but not affective.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • Steve DunneSteve Dunne Posts: 4,965
    looked like the canes were playing a mite team last night there in the 2nd period.
    I love to turn you on
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    looked like the canes were playing a mite team last night there in the 2nd period.

    That's what fast teams against a slow defense can do, Gill looked like a big tree that got caught standing still, Kubina isn't very mobile, McCabe looked like shit, except his pp goal, White trys to stick handle through people to much, i dunno the fowards didn't help the defence much either, and by the end Toskala look like he gave up on the last 2 goals.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    kenshunt wrote:
    That's what fast teams against a slow defense can do, Gill looked like a big tree that got caught standing still, Kubina isn't very mobile, McCabe looked like shit, except his pp goal, White trys to stick handle through people to much, i dunno the fowards didn't help the defence much either, and by the end Toskala look like he gave up on the last 2 goals.

    If you already let in 5 you'd probably give up too
  • HawkshoreHawkshore Posts: 2,152
    Hey Ken there is always next year in leaf land :)

    ..............and besides another shitty year is a small price to pay to seal the fate of JFJ!
    Van 92.07.21 / Van 98.07.19 / Sea 98.07.22 / Tor 98.08.22 / Sea 00.11.06 / Van 03.05.30/ Van 05.09.02/ Gorge 06.07.22 & 23 / EV Van 08.04.02 / Tor 09.08.21 / Sea 09.09.21 & 22 / Van 09.09.25 / Van 11.09.25 / Van 13.12.04 / Pem 16.07.17 / Sea 18.08.10
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    kenshunt wrote:
    That's what fast teams against a slow defense can do, Gill looked like a big tree that got caught standing still, Kubina isn't very mobile, McCabe looked like shit, except his pp goal, White trys to stick handle through people to much, i dunno the fowards didn't help the defence much either, and by the end Toskala look like he gave up on the last 2 goals.


    Gill always looks like a planted tree. I surprised he dosen't wear number 23 to remind fans of another bum named Gill. :)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    Hawkshore wrote:
    Hey Ken there is always next year in leaf land :)

    ..............and besides another shitty year is a small price to pay to seal the fate of JFJ!

    Honestly JFJ is NOT that bad (other than the eternity contract for Antropov). It's more the retarded fans and media that make him look bad.
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Rygar wrote:
    Honestly JFJ is NOT that bad (other than the eternity contract for Antropov). It's more the retarded fans and media that make him look bad.

    Eric Lindros, Jason Allison, Pavel Kubina, Hal Gill, Jeff O'Neil, Re-Signing MCabe to huge money, Trading Tuuka Rask for Andrew Raycroft, missing the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons as GM, i think he has done a terrible job.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Rygar wrote:
    Honestly JFJ is NOT that bad (other than the eternity contract for Antropov). It's more the retarded fans and media that make him look bad.


    The guy looks like he came from Boston to be the GM. The guy hasn't had one good signing since he has been here. Any fan could be a better GM then he is. The guy plays by MLG rules. The place is full and we lose. You don't need to put a winner on the ice. Somewhere Harold Ballard is laughing and saying, "don't fix what ain't broke".
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    kenshunt wrote:
    Eric Lindros, Jason Allison, Pavel Kubina, Hal Gill, Jeff O'Neil, Re-Signing MCabe to huge money, Trading Tuuka Rask for Andrew Raycroft, missing the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons as GM, i think he has done a terrible job.

    Lindros, Allison, Kubina, Gill, o'Neil - ok, instead of signing these he could have signed.....? Big names don't want to play in the Canadian cities. And

    O'Neill probably didn't play on spending most of his time injured....

    Tuuka Rask....yeah you're probably right for that, but he needed a goalie and who knows what he tried.
    Raycroft had been playing decent before hand :P
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    even flow? wrote:
    The guy looks like he came from Boston to be the GM. The guy hasn't had one good signing since he has been here. Any fan could be a better GM then he is. The guy plays by MLG rules. The place is full and we lose. You don't need to put a winner on the ice. Somewhere Harold Ballard is laughing and saying, "don't fix what ain't broke".


    Who is he going to sign? Who wants to play in Canadian markets?? Players who're already playing in Canadian markets, and that is pretty much it.


    I'm not saying he's a great GM or has done a great job, I'm just saying he isn't as bad as the Toronto media would like you to believe.
  • HawkshoreHawkshore Posts: 2,152
    Rygar wrote:
    Who is he going to sign? Who wants to play in Canadian markets?? Players who're already playing in Canadian markets, and that is pretty much it.


    I'm not saying he's a great GM or has done a great job, I'm just saying he isn't as bad as the Toronto media would like you to believe.


    Funny we didn't have much problem convincing Luongo to sign a long term deal with the Canucks
    Van 92.07.21 / Van 98.07.19 / Sea 98.07.22 / Tor 98.08.22 / Sea 00.11.06 / Van 03.05.30/ Van 05.09.02/ Gorge 06.07.22 & 23 / EV Van 08.04.02 / Tor 09.08.21 / Sea 09.09.21 & 22 / Van 09.09.25 / Van 11.09.25 / Van 13.12.04 / Pem 16.07.17 / Sea 18.08.10
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Rygar wrote:
    Who is he going to sign? Who wants to play in Canadian markets?? Players who're already playing in Canadian markets, and that is pretty much it.


    I'm not saying he's a great GM or has done a great job, I'm just saying he isn't as bad as the Toronto media would like you to believe.

    I'm saying get us in the playoffs, change things up, they didn't have to re-sign Antropov, Poni, Battagllia, Devereaux, even if it's second tear guys, make a change for the sake of change cause they didn't make the playoffs with this team, so the only change they made was basically Blake instead of O'Neil thanks JFJ good work and he traded for a goalie who isn't a proven number 1 and handed him 4 mil, and traded for Bell who is going to jail at the end of the season and suspended by the league for 15 games, again good work JFJ. 95% is still a team that didn't make the playoffs.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    kenshunt wrote:
    I'm saying get us in the playoffs, change things up, they didn't have to re-sign Antropov, Poni, Battagllia, Devereaux, even if it's second tear guys, make a change for the sake of change cause they didn't make the playoffs with this team, so the only change they made was basically Blake instead of O'Neil thanks JFJ good work and he traded for a goalie who isn't a proven number 1 and handed him 4 mil, and traded for Bell who is going to jail at the end of the season and suspended by the league for 15 games, again good work JFJ. 95% is still a team that didn't make the playoffs.

    Hahaha, well I'll give you that. Playoffs are a long way off too. What do you think your chances are?
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    Hawkshore wrote:
    Funny we didn't have much problem convincing Luongo to sign a long term deal with the Canucks

    Yeah, he really lead the charge of big name players into Canada, didn't he?
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Rygar wrote:
    Hahaha, well I'll give you that. Playoffs are a long way off too. What do you think your chances are?

    50-50, but i dunno, prolly miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 points again lol.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    kenshunt wrote:
    50-50, but i dunno, prolly miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 points again lol.

    Like 5 or 6 other teams.
  • HawkshoreHawkshore Posts: 2,152
    Rygar wrote:
    Yeah, he really lead the charge of big name players into Canada, didn't he?

    Can't speak for the other clubs....the one big name player we went after playing in a US market was glad to sign here and I'm sure as fuck happy about it :D

    The Flems have also had success in convincing players to sign there also....Tangauy & Aucion come to mind.

    I think it depends more the specific situation.......still a little jilted over Briere passing on the Habs :)
    Van 92.07.21 / Van 98.07.19 / Sea 98.07.22 / Tor 98.08.22 / Sea 00.11.06 / Van 03.05.30/ Van 05.09.02/ Gorge 06.07.22 & 23 / EV Van 08.04.02 / Tor 09.08.21 / Sea 09.09.21 & 22 / Van 09.09.25 / Van 11.09.25 / Van 13.12.04 / Pem 16.07.17 / Sea 18.08.10
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Hawkshore wrote:
    Can't speak for the other clubs....the one big name player we went after playing in a US market was glad to sign here and I'm sure as fuck happy about it :D

    The Flems have also had success in convincing players to sign there also....Tangauy & Aucion come to mind.

    I think it depends more the specific situation.......still a little jilted over Briere passing on the Habs :)

    French Canadian's hate playing in Montreal
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    Hawkshore wrote:
    Can't speak for the other clubs....the one big name player we went after playing in a US market was glad to sign here and I'm sure as fuck happy about it :D

    The Flems have also had success in convincing players to sign there also....Tangauy & Aucion come to mind.

    I think it depends more the specific situation.......still a little jilted over Briere passing on the Habs :)

    Not at all. I don't think Briere would have solved the team's problems in the slightest.
    Tanguay and Aucoin aren't really good examples of big name players. Aucoin hasn't done jack for years, and Tanguay, well he's still pretty good but he's no superstar without Sakic.


    Can't blame Luongo for wanting to sign there (he played for Florida, hahaha!). I'd b e glad if I was a Canucks fan too.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Rygar wrote:
    Who is he going to sign? Who wants to play in Canadian markets?? Players who're already playing in Canadian markets, and that is pretty much it.


    I'm not saying he's a great GM or has done a great job, I'm just saying he isn't as bad as the Toronto media would like you to believe.


    Living in the city I can't recall even reading or hearing a story where Toronto was pursuing a half decent player to sign. Better yet making a worth while pitch for one.

    So in the end, he is a horrible GM and the media and fans have it right. ;)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    even flow? wrote:
    Living in the city I can't recall even reading or hearing a story where Toronto was pursuing a half decent player to sign. Better yet making a worth while pitch for one.

    So in the end, he is a horrible GM and the media and fans have it right. ;)

    Cujo was a great signing years ago, but since that, nothing really.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • HawkshoreHawkshore Posts: 2,152
    kenshunt wrote:
    Cujo was a great signing years ago, but since that, nothing really.


    Didn't Quinn sign him?
    Van 92.07.21 / Van 98.07.19 / Sea 98.07.22 / Tor 98.08.22 / Sea 00.11.06 / Van 03.05.30/ Van 05.09.02/ Gorge 06.07.22 & 23 / EV Van 08.04.02 / Tor 09.08.21 / Sea 09.09.21 & 22 / Van 09.09.25 / Van 11.09.25 / Van 13.12.04 / Pem 16.07.17 / Sea 18.08.10
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Hawkshore wrote:
    Didn't Quinn sign him?

    Yes, but Quinn shouldn't have been fired either, he got them in the playoffs every year as coach except for the team Fergie gave him.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    kenshunt wrote:
    Cujo was a great signing years ago, but since that, nothing really.


    As already pointed out, we were talking about the super moves that Ferguson has made. I can't believe Sundin has stuck around for so long with an organization that is going no where.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • HawkshoreHawkshore Posts: 2,152
    kenshunt wrote:
    Yes, but Quinn shouldn't have been fired either, he got them in the playoffs every year as coach except for the team Fergie gave him.


    I liked Pat to from gis time here with the Canucks.....but you had to know when they brought JFJ in Quinn was going to get dicked over! :(
    Van 92.07.21 / Van 98.07.19 / Sea 98.07.22 / Tor 98.08.22 / Sea 00.11.06 / Van 03.05.30/ Van 05.09.02/ Gorge 06.07.22 & 23 / EV Van 08.04.02 / Tor 09.08.21 / Sea 09.09.21 & 22 / Van 09.09.25 / Van 11.09.25 / Van 13.12.04 / Pem 16.07.17 / Sea 18.08.10
  • kenshuntkenshunt Posts: 2,863
    Hawkshore wrote:
    I liked Pat to from gis time here with the Canucks.....but you had to know when they brought JFJ in Quinn was going to get dicked over! :(

    But you know, Pat's a terrible coach, never won a cup, so they fire his ass, and say there going in a different direction with young kids, top line still consists of Mats Sundin, Jason Blake, Nik Antropov, not exactly a youth movement.
    London 2005
    Toronto 2011 night 2
    Hamilton 2011
    London 2013
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Hockey/2007/10/11/4566806-sun.html

    In the most telling moment of a season already in crisis, the highest paid Maple Leaf skated behind his own goal Tuesday night and proceeded to trip over the net.

    Maybe Bryan McCabe had done this before. Maybe not. But the symbol was clear and not at all comical.

    This is the player John Ferguson has chosen to build his team around. This is his Chris Pronger, his Nick Lidstrom. Ferguson cannot trade McCabe, cannot send him to the minors, cannot place him on waivers, can probably not look at him the wrong way and cannot keep him on his feet.

    And the troubling part is, McCabe is almost a victim of his own financial success. The more he earns, the less he fits the description of what he is supposed to be, the more the pressure mounts for him to be something he cannot be.

    That is $7.1 million the Leafs can do nothing but grimace about. It is his security for life, and a certainty for Leaf fans that this team, under this management group, can never be right.



    The commitment was made by Ferguson to build this team around the most expensive defence in the National Hockey League. That wasn't the plan -- there never has been a plan -- but it's how things have worked out.

    Seven million a year for McCabe. Five million a year for Pavel Kubina. A logical four million a year for Tomas Kaberle. That's $16 million in a salary capped hockey world: Two players whose contracts indicate they can't be traded, and one whose contract alone means he won't be traded.

    This is the same highly paid group that wasn't good enough a year ago as the Leafs neared the bottom of the NHL in goals against. And after parting with one first-round pick for a goaltender last summer, Ferguson solidified the unit by trading another first-round pick and assorted other draft trinkets to bring in another goalie this summer.

    BOTTOM DWELLERS

    And four games into a new season, the Leafs are again near the bottom in goals against, allowing 4.25 against per game. Now go back to the final five games of last season, relevant because the Leafs needed to win almost all of them to advance to the post-season, and look at the numbers.

    In those key games, they allowed seven goals against the New York Rangers, four against the Ottawa Senators, five against the New York Islanders, five against the Montreal Canadiens.

    Twenty three goals against in five games.

    Not good enough then. Not good enough now. With a new goalie in Vesa Toskala and basically the same defence with big and slow Andy Wozniewski replacing the young and injured Carlo Colaiacovo, almost nothing has changed.

    Ferguson has tied his own hands -- some would say neck -- by the manner in which he has chosen to build this club.

    He can't buy his way out of this the way previous Leaf administrators might have. He can't trade his way out of this: He has too many contracts that don't match contribution. He can't rely on kids -- they don't have any future stars.

    Instead, they are locked in long term with players who weren't good enough last year, aren't good enough this year, won't be good enough next year.

    Paul Maurice may not want to play the trap with this team but his general manager already is playing it in his own game of front office survival. Ferguson is, essentially, trapped.

    He has never shown himself able to make anything close to a move of consequence during the season. Should this early season slate of goals against continue, the only assurance is that in no particular order the general manager will lose his job and the coach will lose his job and at least one of those firings is unfair.

    The best player, Mats Sundin, turns 37 in February. McCabe is only in year two of a five-year deal. He'll be 36 when his contract expires. Darcy Tucker, who hasn't scored in his last 11 games as a Leaf and has five goals in 21 games since signing on for three more seasons and $12 million, will turn 33 in March. He will be 36 in the final year of his deal.

    How does any of that translate to a successful future?

    This is John Ferguson's legacy. He made the mess but can't clean it up. Question is: Can anyone?
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    even flow? wrote:
    http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Hockey/2007/10/11/4566806-sun.html

    In the most telling moment of a season already in crisis, the highest paid Maple Leaf skated behind his own goal Tuesday night and proceeded to trip over the net.

    Maybe Bryan McCabe had done this before. Maybe not. But the symbol was clear and not at all comical.

    This is the player John Ferguson has chosen to build his team around. This is his Chris Pronger, his Nick Lidstrom. Ferguson cannot trade McCabe, cannot send him to the minors, cannot place him on waivers, can probably not look at him the wrong way and cannot keep him on his feet.

    And the troubling part is, McCabe is almost a victim of his own financial success. The more he earns, the less he fits the description of what he is supposed to be, the more the pressure mounts for him to be something he cannot be.

    That is $7.1 million the Leafs can do nothing but grimace about. It is his security for life, and a certainty for Leaf fans that this team, under this management group, can never be right.



    The commitment was made by Ferguson to build this team around the most expensive defence in the National Hockey League. That wasn't the plan -- there never has been a plan -- but it's how things have worked out.

    Seven million a year for McCabe. Five million a year for Pavel Kubina. A logical four million a year for Tomas Kaberle. That's $16 million in a salary capped hockey world: Two players whose contracts indicate they can't be traded, and one whose contract alone means he won't be traded.

    This is the same highly paid group that wasn't good enough a year ago as the Leafs neared the bottom of the NHL in goals against. And after parting with one first-round pick for a goaltender last summer, Ferguson solidified the unit by trading another first-round pick and assorted other draft trinkets to bring in another goalie this summer.

    BOTTOM DWELLERS

    And four games into a new season, the Leafs are again near the bottom in goals against, allowing 4.25 against per game. Now go back to the final five games of last season, relevant because the Leafs needed to win almost all of them to advance to the post-season, and look at the numbers.

    In those key games, they allowed seven goals against the New York Rangers, four against the Ottawa Senators, five against the New York Islanders, five against the Montreal Canadiens.

    Twenty three goals against in five games.

    Not good enough then. Not good enough now. With a new goalie in Vesa Toskala and basically the same defence with big and slow Andy Wozniewski replacing the young and injured Carlo Colaiacovo, almost nothing has changed.

    Ferguson has tied his own hands -- some would say neck -- by the manner in which he has chosen to build this club.

    He can't buy his way out of this the way previous Leaf administrators might have. He can't trade his way out of this: He has too many contracts that don't match contribution. He can't rely on kids -- they don't have any future stars.

    Instead, they are locked in long term with players who weren't good enough last year, aren't good enough this year, won't be good enough next year.

    Paul Maurice may not want to play the trap with this team but his general manager already is playing it in his own game of front office survival. Ferguson is, essentially, trapped.

    He has never shown himself able to make anything close to a move of consequence during the season. Should this early season slate of goals against continue, the only assurance is that in no particular order the general manager will lose his job and the coach will lose his job and at least one of those firings is unfair.

    The best player, Mats Sundin, turns 37 in February. McCabe is only in year two of a five-year deal. He'll be 36 when his contract expires. Darcy Tucker, who hasn't scored in his last 11 games as a Leaf and has five goals in 21 games since signing on for three more seasons and $12 million, will turn 33 in March. He will be 36 in the final year of his deal.

    How does any of that translate to a successful future?

    This is John Ferguson's legacy. He made the mess but can't clean it up. Question is: Can anyone?


    Hahahaha, well I stand corrected. Tripping over the net, nice opener. Ponikarovsky got hurt at PRACTICE yesterday, courtesy of Chad Kilger.
    Who the hell signs Tucker the Fucker for $12 million??
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