Horseracing is Cruelty

g under p

Jeanie wrote:

Wow! Just Wow!

I sure hope none of you that have been banging on here about horses running, a natural instinct of theirs by the way, haven't EVER ridden one, because you know they aren't born with a saddle purely for human purposes. Not to mention how we have used them for centuries as work animals.

Face facts people, NOTHING lives in its "natural" state anymore, whatever the hell that was in the first place. The number of horses that would die if we released them all back to their "natural habitat" would be truly staggering, you can't tell me that isn't just as cruel and unusual punishment for such beautiful creatures.

At no point would I support the cruelty of animals but the bottom line is, if a horse doesn't want to run it will not run. Plain and simple. That a hoard of people have capitilized on that is an entirely different issue but I guess that gets lost once PETA gets on board.

You may have a point here that I can understand. Back in the early 90's I used to go to the beach at the Outer Banks in NC. At the far end of the northern island strip near Corolla there used to be wild horses roaming freely in the area.

Over time many of these horses ended up being killed and many injuries to humans driving through where they roam. Finally they had to build a barrier/wall to prevent the wild horses from roaming where humans drive cars many times too fast. So yes not many of these horses roam in their natural habitat these horses now must live in a roadless environment with less natural grass to eat.

A little history on these wild horses, they came to NC off of shipwrecks from Spanish ships in the early 1800's and swam to shore after these ships wrecked on the jagged rocks by hurricane driven winds.

Very beautiful horses and I still miss them.

Peace

Jeanie

Strangest Tribe wrote:

hey Jeanie, I thought you didn't like people who mistreated animals???

you haven't flip-fopped on me have you???

I don't like people that mistreat animals, never have, never will, I guess we differ on our interpretation of what constitutes mistreatment and also what the ramifications are for creatures when we take extreme measures on issues.

There are elements of horse racing that I agree are very cruel, including hitting them with the crop and pushing them too far, however I think it would be much smarter to be attempting to change those practices than stopping racing all together because what we'd end up with is a glut of horses that nobody has any use for, and what do you think would happen to them then?
Horses love to run, I don't have a problem with that, or with people getting excited watching them race each other, but how we go about that could certainly stand to see some changes.

It would be great if we lived in a perfect world where all creatures could live in their natural habitat as they were born to do, but the fact remains that habitats are dying, we do use animals for many things including food and I really can't see that stopping so my attitude is that if you love the animals then the best thing we can do is make sure that best practice is always followed and that we limit cruelty as much as we can. It's never acceptable but I doubt very much it will ever cease to be. I'm a realist when it comes to this issue. So no, no flip flop.

sennin

My only issue would be the use of the word 'tragedy', and the media's abuse of that word.

I didn't see the race....although I do enjoy horse racing. When I saw the headline "Tragedy Strikes Kentucky Derby", I thought OH SHIT!..maybe someone shot up the place, or a roof collapsed, someone sped through the infield with a 4x4....something of that nature.

Sure, it's sad....and makes you think about the validity of horse racing as a sport, but no where near a tragedy.

Jeanie

g under p wrote:

You may have a point here that I can understand. Back in the early 90's I used to go to the beach at the Outer Banks in NC. At the far end of the northern island strip near Corolla there used to be wild horses roaming freely in the area.

Over time many of these horses ended up being killed and many injuries to humans driving through where they roam. Finally they had to build a barrier/wall to prevent the wild horses from roaming where humans drive cars many times too fast. So yes not many of these horses roam in their natural habitat these horses now must live in a roadless environment with less natural grass to eat.

A little history on these wild horses, they came to NC off of shipwrecks from Spanish ships in the early 1800's and swam to shore after these ships wrecked on the jagged rocks by hurricane driven winds.

Very beautiful horses and I still miss them.

Peace

Yes! That's exactly the kind of thing I mean. It's so sad to see the ramifications of progress on animals.

The horses do sound beautiful and very courageous! I would miss them too.

aspoonfulweighsaton

Jeanie wrote:

Ditto your response. I fail to see what it has to do with the topic of the thread, but I'll answer. If you started beating me with a stick I'd probably fight for my life and if that failed I'd run. What's you're point?

I think you just proved their point. The horse can't fight back and can only run when being beaten by the jockey's stick.

Yes horses can run naturally, but my one-year old son can see that there's nothing natural about a horse race.

sponger

poor horsie....lived and died by the careless hand of man.

Rock on

I heard on a news radio program that in the US, an average 700 horses die each year due to racing. Their then slaughtered and shipped throughout Europe for human cunsumption.

On a lighter note, there are a few areas in the American west where wild horses and burros are thriveing quite nicely all on their own.

Collin

eyedclaar wrote:

No. I think I'm already disliked enough 'round these parts. Suffice to say, my philosophies stem from the Cherokee blood in my heart but have evolved into a game of numbers with my white blood logistics. Not to mention the cosmic spider web...

Don't get me started.

I can understand that your views are not popular, although I have no idea what you mean

Jeanie

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

I think you just proved their point. The horse can't fight back and can only run when being beaten by the jockey's stick.

Yes horses can run naturally, but my one-year old son can see that there's nothing natural about a horse race.

Have you ever seen a horse that doesn't want to do something?

There are stringent guidelines for the use of the crop in horse racing.

And given that your one year old son hasn't fully developed yet I hardly think he's an expert on the issue or can even weigh it up. Although I'm sure he's lovely he's not old enough to have an opinion one way or the other so I'm not sure why you're bringing him into it.

PJaddicted

http://www.chai-online.org/en/compassion/entertainment_racing.htm

Please read this.....it will show you another side to the sport of horse racing.

oxc

aspoonfulweighsaton

Jeanie wrote:

Have you ever seen a horse that doesn't want to do something?

There are stringent guidelines for the use of the crop in horse racing.

And given that your one year old son hasn't fully developed yet I hardly think he's an expert on the issue or can even weigh it up. Although I'm sure he's lovely he's not old enough to have an opinion one way or the other so I'm not sure why you're bringing him into it.

I was only trying to make a point. Obviously I would never drag my son into something like this. My point is that if you were to watch twenty horses in their natural habitat, they wouldn't arrange a race in a circle at high speeds. Better yet, I think that horseracing should try racing without jockeys for a while just to see what happens.

Now that would be entertaining.

PJGARDEN

PJaddicted wrote:

http://www.chai-online.org/en/compassion/entertainment_racing.htm

Please read this.....it will show you another side to the sport of horse racing.

oxc

Sorry but your article is BS and obviously written by someone not very familar with the horse industry.

Horses that don't "make the cut" so to speak are not disposed of. These horses are still worth pretty good money and are used for other things. Do you have any clue how much money is cost to breed to horses like this????? After someone has that much money invested in a horse do you really think they're just going to dispose of them?????? Not going to happen.

Then when they are done racing, again, do you have any clue how much money is invested in these horses????? Not to mention they are some of the most well bred horses out there. Why would they dispose of them. They go on and do other things with them. Almost every horse (and I have had a lot of horses) I have ever had was a former race horse. This is one of the most ignorant articles I have ever read.

Pedge

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120994417837766223.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
this article is more on the money. Irresponsible breeders are to blame for majority of tragedies we see on the racetrack and the latest one that occured in the Kentucky derby. To knowingly breed from a line of horse with genetic flaws in their conformation, weakness in bone structure etc is not on. "But just as Native Dancer's career was cut short by leg injuries, his descendants have shown the same fragile tendencies. If breeders and owners continue to tap this bloodline at the same rate, some say Saturday's grim spectacle is likely to be repeated." these idiot breeders chasing the big money are neglecting the fact that mating horses that were plagued with leg problems are only duplicating the problem for their future offspring. Similar tragedies would be avoided if these breeders used common sense and only mated with horses with no known history of bone weakness.
In regard to the actual horse racing being cruel though I disagree. I have owned racehorses who were all treated brilliantly and after inspecting them after each of their races they were never in a distressed state. You will get bad eggs who don't look after their horses but the majority of trainers keep their thoroughbreds in fine shape and their horses are happy

the little guy

And, of course Native Dancer was the dam's sire of Northern Dancer, and Northern Dancer in turn was the sire of Storm Bird who was the sire of the most expensive sire of the last decade plus Storm Cat, who certainly has bred fragility into the breed.

The prevelance of breeding for speed, and away from stamina, has had a detrimental effect on the thoroughbred.

Strangest Tribe

It would be better if we just didn't race horses anymore.

I'm quite sure the horses wouldn't mind. They could still run whenever they wanted, in the meadow.

the little guy

Strangest Tribe wrote:

It would be better if we just didn't race horses anymore.

I'm quite sure the horses wouldn't mind. They could still run whenever they wanted, in the meadow.

They wouldn't mind at all......they wouldn't be born.

eyedclaar

the little guy wrote:

They wouldn't mind at all......they wouldn't be born.

Yeah, because all horses are racing horses, right?

the little guy

eyedclaar wrote:

Yeah, because all horses are racing horses, right?

If you want to appear to know anything about what you are attempting to discuss it would help to make sane and relevant comments. If you want to espouse the irrelevant and knowledgeless views of the opportunistic radicals that have siezed on yet another chance to attempt to further a cause of ignorance then you are doing a fine job.

But, you're not fooling me or anyone that actually understands the situation.

Pedge

Strangest Tribe wrote:

It would be better if we just didn't race horses anymore.

I'm quite sure the horses wouldn't mind. They could still run whenever they wanted, in the meadow.

If you have ever been to a horse race which I am almost positive you havent I dare you to inspect each horse next time they parade around.They are magnificently fit animals and they are eagerly prancing on their toes excited about the race that awaits them. These thoroughbreds enjoy raceday, they are well looked after animals and they are not subject to cruelty. Like I have stated earlier we have to erradicate the practice of breeding fragility into the bone structure of racehorses. You stamp out this practice and you stamp out the vast majority of tragedies we see to racehorses. I am a total animal lover and when the greed of breeding for speed gets in the way of breeding for soundness that I have a real problem with

Jeanie

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

I was only trying to make a point. Obviously I would never drag my son into something like this. My point is that if you were to watch twenty horses in their natural habitat, they wouldn't arrange a race in a circle at high speeds. Better yet, I think that horseracing should try racing without jockeys for a while just to see what happens.

Now that would be entertaining.

But that's just it aspoonful, what is their natural habitat anymore? We have destroyed most of the natural habitat on this planet. It's everywhere, the destruction of habitat, very few creatures have the luxury of being in their natural habitat. They have had to adapt as we all have.

But I'm all for what you're suggesting. I reckon if you did let loose a bunch of runners on a race track without jockeys the horses would still run anyway. Perhaps not as uniformly as they do now but racehorses love to run, it's what they do.

By all means we should always strive for best practice when it comes to horseracing and anything else that involves those that cannot speak for themselves but I think this idea of animals sitting around in their "natural habitat" as some seem to advocate is just as cruel given that the interpretation of said behaviours is not taking the true nature of the animal into account.