Have you ever seen a horse that doesn't want to do something?
There are stringent guidelines for the use of the crop in horse racing.
And given that your one year old son hasn't fully developed yet I hardly think he's an expert on the issue or can even weigh it up. Although I'm sure he's lovely he's not old enough to have an opinion one way or the other so I'm not sure why you're bringing him into it.
I was only trying to make a point. Obviously I would never drag my son into something like this. My point is that if you were to watch twenty horses in their natural habitat, they wouldn't arrange a race in a circle at high speeds. Better yet, I think that horseracing should try racing without jockeys for a while just to see what happens.
Please read this.....it will show you another side to the sport of horse racing.
oxc
Sorry but your article is BS and obviously written by someone not very familar with the horse industry.
Horses that don't "make the cut" so to speak are not disposed of. These horses are still worth pretty good money and are used for other things. Do you have any clue how much money is cost to breed to horses like this????? After someone has that much money invested in a horse do you really think they're just going to dispose of them?????? Not going to happen.
Then when they are done racing, again, do you have any clue how much money is invested in these horses????? Not to mention they are some of the most well bred horses out there. Why would they dispose of them. They go on and do other things with them. Almost every horse (and I have had a lot of horses) I have ever had was a former race horse. This is one of the most ignorant articles I have ever read.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120994417837766223.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
this article is more on the money. Irresponsible breeders are to blame for majority of tragedies we see on the racetrack and the latest one that occured in the Kentucky derby. To knowingly breed from a line of horse with genetic flaws in their conformation, weakness in bone structure etc is not on. "But just as Native Dancer's career was cut short by leg injuries, his descendants have shown the same fragile tendencies. If breeders and owners continue to tap this bloodline at the same rate, some say Saturday's grim spectacle is likely to be repeated." these idiot breeders chasing the big money are neglecting the fact that mating horses that were plagued with leg problems are only duplicating the problem for their future offspring. Similar tragedies would be avoided if these breeders used common sense and only mated with horses with no known history of bone weakness.
In regard to the actual horse racing being cruel though I disagree. I have owned racehorses who were all treated brilliantly and after inspecting them after each of their races they were never in a distressed state. You will get bad eggs who don't look after their horses but the majority of trainers keep their thoroughbreds in fine shape and their horses are happy
Why do people with closed minds always open their mouth
And, of course Native Dancer was the dam's sire of Northern Dancer, and Northern Dancer in turn was the sire of Storm Bird who was the sire of the most expensive sire of the last decade plus Storm Cat, who certainly has bred fragility into the breed.
The prevelance of breeding for speed, and away from stamina, has had a detrimental effect on the thoroughbred.
Yeah, because all horses are racing horses, right?
If you want to appear to know anything about what you are attempting to discuss it would help to make sane and relevant comments. If you want to espouse the irrelevant and knowledgeless views of the opportunistic radicals that have siezed on yet another chance to attempt to further a cause of ignorance then you are doing a fine job.
But, you're not fooling me or anyone that actually understands the situation.
It would be better if we just didn't race horses anymore.
I'm quite sure the horses wouldn't mind. They could still run whenever they wanted, in the meadow.
If you have ever been to a horse race which I am almost positive you havent I dare you to inspect each horse next time they parade around.They are magnificently fit animals and they are eagerly prancing on their toes excited about the race that awaits them. These thoroughbreds enjoy raceday, they are well looked after animals and they are not subject to cruelty. Like I have stated earlier we have to erradicate the practice of breeding fragility into the bone structure of racehorses. You stamp out this practice and you stamp out the vast majority of tragedies we see to racehorses. I am a total animal lover and when the greed of breeding for speed gets in the way of breeding for soundness that I have a real problem with
Why do people with closed minds always open their mouth
I was only trying to make a point. Obviously I would never drag my son into something like this. My point is that if you were to watch twenty horses in their natural habitat, they wouldn't arrange a race in a circle at high speeds. Better yet, I think that horseracing should try racing without jockeys for a while just to see what happens.
Now that would be entertaining.
But that's just it aspoonful, what is their natural habitat anymore? We have destroyed most of the natural habitat on this planet. It's everywhere, the destruction of habitat, very few creatures have the luxury of being in their natural habitat. They have had to adapt as we all have.
But I'm all for what you're suggesting. I reckon if you did let loose a bunch of runners on a race track without jockeys the horses would still run anyway. Perhaps not as uniformly as they do now but racehorses love to run, it's what they do.
By all means we should always strive for best practice when it comes to horseracing and anything else that involves those that cannot speak for themselves but I think this idea of animals sitting around in their "natural habitat" as some seem to advocate is just as cruel given that the interpretation of said behaviours is not taking the true nature of the animal into account.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120994417837766223.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
this article is more on the money. Irresponsible breeders are to blame for majority of tragedies we see on the racetrack and the latest one that occured in the Kentucky derby. To knowingly breed from a line of horse with genetic flaws in their conformation, weakness in bone structure etc is not on. "But just as Native Dancer's career was cut short by leg injuries, his descendants have shown the same fragile tendencies. If breeders and owners continue to tap this bloodline at the same rate, some say Saturday's grim spectacle is likely to be repeated." these idiot breeders chasing the big money are neglecting the fact that mating horses that were plagued with leg problems are only duplicating the problem for their future offspring. Similar tragedies would be avoided if these breeders used common sense and only mated with horses with no known history of bone weakness.
In regard to the actual horse racing being cruel though I disagree. I have owned racehorses who were all treated brilliantly and after inspecting them after each of their races they were never in a distressed state. You will get bad eggs who don't look after their horses but the majority of trainers keep their thoroughbreds in fine shape and their horses are happy
If you have ever been to a horse race which I am almost positive you havent I dare you to inspect each horse next time they parade around.They are magnificently fit animals and they are eagerly prancing on their toes excited about the race that awaits them. These thoroughbreds enjoy raceday, they are well looked after animals and they are not subject to cruelty. Like I have stated earlier we have to erradicate the practice of breeding fragility into the bone structure of racehorses. You stamp out this practice and you stamp out the vast majority of tragedies we see to racehorses. I am a total animal lover and when the greed of breeding for speed gets in the way of breeding for soundness that I have a real problem with
Well said Pedge. Very well said, all of it.
I particularly agree regarding the comments in bold. Seeing a thoroughbred at the track before the race, after the race or even at the beach after race day, you can see their spirit and the joy they take in running. They really are quite a sight to see frolicking amongst the waves at the beach. We used to get up really early some days and go down to the bay to watch them. Not that you see it too often anymore but still quite a sight to see them frolick.
I particularly agree regarding the comments in bold. Seeing a thoroughbred at the track before the race, after the race or even at the beach after race day, you can see their spirit and the joy they take in running. They really are quite a sight to see frolicking amongst the waves at the beach. We used to get up really early some days and go down to the bay to watch them. Not that you see it too often anymore but still quite a sight to see them frolick.
How can you tell they are feeling Joy before a race?
Perhaps they appear "spirited" because they fear being whipped.
If you have ever been to a horse race which I am almost positive you havent I dare you to inspect each horse next time they parade around.They are magnificently fit animals and they are eagerly prancing on their toes excited about the race that awaits them. These thoroughbreds enjoy raceday, they are well looked after animals and they are not subject to cruelty. Like I have stated earlier we have to erradicate the practice of breeding fragility into the bone structure of racehorses. You stamp out this practice and you stamp out the vast majority of tragedies we see to racehorses. I am a total animal lover and when the greed of breeding for speed gets in the way of breeding for soundness that I have a real problem with
Actually, my wife's cousin was the former chairman of Fairmont Park in Collinsville IL. I would say I've been to around 300+ horse races... I'm quite familiar with the horses.
The 6 horses I own look just as happy when i come home from work everyday as the horses do before a race... but usually when horses are taken from their stalls after they been penned up for several hours/days they're pretty goddamn happy even if they were headed to the glue factory.
Race horse people just see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.
any time you take advantage of an animal's natural instincts, it's just plain wrong. i dont care how long its been going on or how "well" these animals are treated.
i'd love to jump on the back of one of these horse-racing enthusiasts and ride him around town, whipping him in the ass until his leg break, giving me cause to shoot him in the head.
Sounds like what my boss does to me. We are all subject to some sort of abuse.
If you want to appear to know anything about what you are attempting to discuss it would help to make sane and relevant comments. If you want to espouse the irrelevant and knowledgeless views of the opportunistic radicals that have siezed on yet another chance to attempt to further a cause of ignorance then you are doing a fine job.
But, you're not fooling me or anyone that actually understands the situation.
Oh snack, the little dude ain't fucking around ..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
I sure hope none of you that have been banging on here about horses running, a natural instinct of theirs by the way, haven't EVER ridden one, because you know they aren't born with a saddle purely for human purposes. Not to mention how we have used them for centuries as work animals.
Face facts people, NOTHING lives in its "natural" state anymore, whatever the hell that was in the first place. The number of horses that would die if we released them all back to their "natural habitat" would be truly staggering, you can't tell me that isn't just as cruel and unusual punishment for such beautiful creatures.
At no point would I support the cruelty of animals but the bottom line is, if a horse doesn't want to run it will not run. Plain and simple. That a hoard of people have capitilized on that is an entirely different issue but I guess that gets lost once PETA gets on board.
good point. Also, look at Africa. Even "wild" places arent even wild.....theyre ranges now. Almost like large zoos.
the only thing in its natural state is antarctica.
I am just pointing out that its difficult to always tell if an animal is happy or terrified!
Oh ok, well no worries, I guess that's not been my experience. I guess I have been able to assess how an animal is feeling fairly accurately most of my life. Not saying I don't get it wrong at times but usually I can sense their state of mind. It's why I never get too upset when they bite me or tell me in other ways they're not happy. I usually just pay heed to what they're saying and fix the problem for them.
good point. Also, look at Africa. Even "wild" places arent even wild.....theyre ranges now. Almost like large zoos.
the only thing in its natural state is antarctica.
Well even Antartica is slowly being eroded. :(
I guess this is a big subject to me and I suppose I view it that if we lived in a perfect world these things wouldn't happen but we don't. So from my perspective we need to do all we can to work with the situation as it stands to ensure the most quality of life for the most amount of animals. And when I see bears locked in cages for the whole of their lives, or elephants still being hunted for their tusks, tasmanian devils being wiped out by cancerous tumours, whole tracts of the Amazon being completely deforrested and the animals dying, well sure we can all keep an eye on horseracing and strive for best practice but when taken into account with all the other things going on in the world by and large I don't see horseracing as a whole being cruel.
why are people so compelled to argue for animal right, but few of those same people give an "f" that our government has served to f over people in this country and the world over by bending over for corporations? I guess my main argument is a handful of horses and dogs dying sucks but comparitive to other issues in this world it's relatively meaningless. Is it barbaric? probably. Is it stupid? certainly. But seriously what's worse 1.6 horses dying per 1000, or 1.5 million dead in Iraq? A dogfighting ring or a 30 percent poverty rate in the United States? Michael Vick or Phil Knight?
yes I will be going to preakness in two weeks.
Michael Vick should be euthanized!! :mad:
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Nice to see the people-are-animals-too crowd is self-righteously outraged at another senseless death of brother animal. I'll type this slowly once again -- P.E.O.P.L.E. > A.N.I.M.A.L.S.
Simple equation. But not for some.
I know there are some on this board who just love to show their humanity by valuing an animal more than a human, like somehow it makes them better or more enlightened people. Ridiculous.
I don't hunt and don't ever want to hunt. I don't like animal blood sports and believe they're disgusting. I don't like watching people beat animals.
And I don't think horse racing is any of those things. Oh, and I'm not a gambler. I just watch it sometimes because I think it's kind of cool. I like track and field, too, and other sports.
I'm too lazy to go around quoting people so I'll just throw some responses out there:
Cop v. Horse -- I love it when people use the "people make choices so fuck them" argument. No matter that cops are important and would be the guys and gals who enforce animal cruelty laws. Cop gets killed? Stupid fucking cop could have avoided it. It's not like he was bred to be a cop. Unless, of course, he comes from a long line of cops and was following the family business.
Horses would rather live in meadows -- OK, I guess they would but how the hell would I know? It's a fucking horse; it can't tell me where it'd rather live. And besides, who the hell would own a horse (other than the rich) to not use it for something, even if it's some toy for an asshole kid to ride.
I don't like it so... -- It must be banned immediately. I love this mentality.
I'd like to (insert eye-for-an-eye punishment here) -- I'd like to whip that guy's ass with a riding crop. Hell, for all we know he might pay somebody to do that for him with his winnings. A lot of people are against animal cruelty but would do the same cruel thing to people. Wow.
I'd like II -- And please, don't give me the people should know/act better argument. One of the things about the ability to think and reason and have opposable thumbs is that some assholes misuse those advantages. They're cruel, terrible people and are dealt with according to laws that (ideally) aren't inhumane (unless, of course, they're 'enemy combatants,' whatever the hell that is other than an excuse for torture).
And finally -- I'm sick of myself for getting sucked into this shit once again. I think I hate myself even more now. I just can't resist sometimes and I've typed way too much shit to delete it. Maybe I should look at it as the letter I never sent to just blow off steam...
Nope, too immature.
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
I'd like II -- And please, don't give me the people should know/act better argument. One of the things about the ability to think and reason and have opposable thumbs is that some assholes misuse those advantages. They're cruel, terrible people and are dealt with according to laws that (ideally) aren't inhumane (unless, of course, they're 'enemy combatants,' whatever the hell that is other than an excuse for torture).
Hopefully they will die a much more horrible death then the poor animal!! Let's just hope....;):D
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Nice to see the people-are-animals-too crowd is self-righteously outraged at another senseless death of brother animal. I'll type this slowly once again -- P.E.O.P.L.E. > A.N.I.M.A.L.S.
Simple equation. But not for some.
I know there are some on this board who just love to show their humanity by valuing an animal more than a human, like somehow it makes them better or more enlightened people. Ridiculous.
I don't hunt and don't ever want to hunt. I don't like animal blood sports and believe they're disgusting. I don't like watching people beat animals.
And I don't think horse racing is any of those things. Oh, and I'm not a gambler. I just watch it sometimes because I think it's kind of cool. I like track and field, too, and other sports.
I'm too lazy to go around quoting people so I'll just throw some responses out there:
Cop v. Horse -- I love it when people use the "people make choices so fuck them" argument. No matter that cops are important and would be the guys and gals who enforce animal cruelty laws. Cop gets killed? Stupid fucking cop could have avoided it. It's not like he was bred to be a cop. Unless, of course, he comes from a long line of cops and was following the family business.
Horses would rather live in meadows -- OK, I guess they would but how the hell would I know? It's a fucking horse; it can't tell me where it'd rather live. And besides, who the hell would own a horse (other than the rich) to not use it for something, even if it's some toy for an asshole kid to ride.
I don't like it so... -- It must be banned immediately. I love this mentality.
I'd like to (insert eye-for-an-eye punishment here) -- I'd like to whip that guy's ass with a riding crop. Hell, for all we know he might pay somebody to do that for him with his winnings. A lot of people are against animal cruelty but would do the same cruel thing to people. Wow.
I'd like II -- And please, don't give me the people should know/act better argument. One of the things about the ability to think and reason and have opposable thumbs is that some assholes misuse those advantages. They're cruel, terrible people and are dealt with according to laws that (ideally) aren't inhumane (unless, of course, they're 'enemy combatants,' whatever the hell that is other than an excuse for torture).
And finally -- I'm sick of myself for getting sucked into this shit once again. I think I hate myself even more now. I just can't resist sometimes and I've typed way too much shit to delete it. Maybe I should look at it as the letter I never sent to just blow off steam...
Comments
I was only trying to make a point. Obviously I would never drag my son into something like this. My point is that if you were to watch twenty horses in their natural habitat, they wouldn't arrange a race in a circle at high speeds. Better yet, I think that horseracing should try racing without jockeys for a while just to see what happens.
Now that would be entertaining.
Sorry but your article is BS and obviously written by someone not very familar with the horse industry.
Horses that don't "make the cut" so to speak are not disposed of. These horses are still worth pretty good money and are used for other things. Do you have any clue how much money is cost to breed to horses like this????? After someone has that much money invested in a horse do you really think they're just going to dispose of them?????? Not going to happen.
Then when they are done racing, again, do you have any clue how much money is invested in these horses????? Not to mention they are some of the most well bred horses out there. Why would they dispose of them. They go on and do other things with them. Almost every horse (and I have had a lot of horses) I have ever had was a former race horse. This is one of the most ignorant articles I have ever read.
this article is more on the money. Irresponsible breeders are to blame for majority of tragedies we see on the racetrack and the latest one that occured in the Kentucky derby. To knowingly breed from a line of horse with genetic flaws in their conformation, weakness in bone structure etc is not on. "But just as Native Dancer's career was cut short by leg injuries, his descendants have shown the same fragile tendencies. If breeders and owners continue to tap this bloodline at the same rate, some say Saturday's grim spectacle is likely to be repeated." these idiot breeders chasing the big money are neglecting the fact that mating horses that were plagued with leg problems are only duplicating the problem for their future offspring. Similar tragedies would be avoided if these breeders used common sense and only mated with horses with no known history of bone weakness.
In regard to the actual horse racing being cruel though I disagree. I have owned racehorses who were all treated brilliantly and after inspecting them after each of their races they were never in a distressed state. You will get bad eggs who don't look after their horses but the majority of trainers keep their thoroughbreds in fine shape and their horses are happy
The prevelance of breeding for speed, and away from stamina, has had a detrimental effect on the thoroughbred.
I'm quite sure the horses wouldn't mind. They could still run whenever they wanted, in the meadow.
They wouldn't mind at all......they wouldn't be born.
Yeah, because all horses are racing horses, right?
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If you want to appear to know anything about what you are attempting to discuss it would help to make sane and relevant comments. If you want to espouse the irrelevant and knowledgeless views of the opportunistic radicals that have siezed on yet another chance to attempt to further a cause of ignorance then you are doing a fine job.
But, you're not fooling me or anyone that actually understands the situation.
But that's just it aspoonful, what is their natural habitat anymore? We have destroyed most of the natural habitat on this planet. It's everywhere, the destruction of habitat, very few creatures have the luxury of being in their natural habitat. They have had to adapt as we all have.
But I'm all for what you're suggesting. I reckon if you did let loose a bunch of runners on a race track without jockeys the horses would still run anyway. Perhaps not as uniformly as they do now but racehorses love to run, it's what they do.
By all means we should always strive for best practice when it comes to horseracing and anything else that involves those that cannot speak for themselves but I think this idea of animals sitting around in their "natural habitat" as some seem to advocate is just as cruel given that the interpretation of said behaviours is not taking the true nature of the animal into account.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well said Pedge. Very well said, all of it.
I particularly agree regarding the comments in bold. Seeing a thoroughbred at the track before the race, after the race or even at the beach after race day, you can see their spirit and the joy they take in running. They really are quite a sight to see frolicking amongst the waves at the beach. We used to get up really early some days and go down to the bay to watch them. Not that you see it too often anymore but still quite a sight to see them frolick.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
How can you tell they are feeling Joy before a race?
Perhaps they appear "spirited" because they fear being whipped.
Actually, my wife's cousin was the former chairman of Fairmont Park in Collinsville IL. I would say I've been to around 300+ horse races... I'm quite familiar with the horses.
The 6 horses I own look just as happy when i come home from work everyday as the horses do before a race... but usually when horses are taken from their stalls after they been penned up for several hours/days they're pretty goddamn happy even if they were headed to the glue factory.
Race horse people just see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.
Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:
I'm gonna stand by a horse at the racetrack, see that it's terrified and allow it to continue being terrified. :rolleyes:
Thanks joe, real nice of ya. NOT!
Do you not spend time with animals and understand them? I know the same as you would know.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I am just pointing out that its difficult to always tell if an animal is happy or terrified!
Sounds like what my boss does to me. We are all subject to some sort of abuse.
Nuclear fission
Oh snack, the little dude ain't fucking around
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
good point. Also, look at Africa. Even "wild" places arent even wild.....theyre ranges now. Almost like large zoos.
the only thing in its natural state is antarctica.
Nuclear fission
Oh ok, well no worries, I guess that's not been my experience.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well even Antartica is slowly being eroded. :(
I guess this is a big subject to me and I suppose I view it that if we lived in a perfect world these things wouldn't happen but we don't. So from my perspective we need to do all we can to work with the situation as it stands to ensure the most quality of life for the most amount of animals. And when I see bears locked in cages for the whole of their lives, or elephants still being hunted for their tusks, tasmanian devils being wiped out by cancerous tumours, whole tracts of the Amazon being completely deforrested and the animals dying, well sure we can all keep an eye on horseracing and strive for best practice but when taken into account with all the other things going on in the world by and large I don't see horseracing as a whole being cruel.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Be careful when you say "midgets"...hehehehe
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
GREAT POST.....so fuckin true too!! :mad:
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Michael Vick should be euthanized!! :mad:
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
yes
Simple equation. But not for some.
I know there are some on this board who just love to show their humanity by valuing an animal more than a human, like somehow it makes them better or more enlightened people. Ridiculous.
I don't hunt and don't ever want to hunt. I don't like animal blood sports and believe they're disgusting. I don't like watching people beat animals.
And I don't think horse racing is any of those things. Oh, and I'm not a gambler. I just watch it sometimes because I think it's kind of cool. I like track and field, too, and other sports.
I'm too lazy to go around quoting people so I'll just throw some responses out there:
Cop v. Horse -- I love it when people use the "people make choices so fuck them" argument. No matter that cops are important and would be the guys and gals who enforce animal cruelty laws. Cop gets killed? Stupid fucking cop could have avoided it. It's not like he was bred to be a cop. Unless, of course, he comes from a long line of cops and was following the family business.
Horses would rather live in meadows -- OK, I guess they would but how the hell would I know? It's a fucking horse; it can't tell me where it'd rather live. And besides, who the hell would own a horse (other than the rich) to not use it for something, even if it's some toy for an asshole kid to ride.
I don't like it so... -- It must be banned immediately. I love this mentality.
I'd like to (insert eye-for-an-eye punishment here) -- I'd like to whip that guy's ass with a riding crop. Hell, for all we know he might pay somebody to do that for him with his winnings. A lot of people are against animal cruelty but would do the same cruel thing to people. Wow.
I'd like II -- And please, don't give me the people should know/act better argument. One of the things about the ability to think and reason and have opposable thumbs is that some assholes misuse those advantages. They're cruel, terrible people and are dealt with according to laws that (ideally) aren't inhumane (unless, of course, they're 'enemy combatants,' whatever the hell that is other than an excuse for torture).
And finally -- I'm sick of myself for getting sucked into this shit once again. I think I hate myself even more now. I just can't resist sometimes and I've typed way too much shit to delete it. Maybe I should look at it as the letter I never sent to just blow off steam...
Nope, too immature.
Hopefully they will die a much more horrible death then the poor animal!! Let's just hope....;):D
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Hooray for horrible deaths!
great post PJ_Saluki - agree 100%