Would you send in a player in to intentionally hurt Tom Brady?

ryan198

Poncier wrote:

Don't make things up.
Goodell never considered forfeiture as the Pats never saw the tape which was confiscated 7 minutes into the game.

And had he considered forfeiture, his decision would have nothing to do with how Vegas would view the game.
The NFL does not acknowledge point spreads and gambling on its games. They know it exists but it does not otherwise get mention in the league office.
Thats an absurd theory.

And if you've ever gambled you know the answer would be that all bets on the game would be cancelled if there was a forfeeit.

uhhh...so let me get this straight a week later when the forfeiture could have happened, the people who won on the Pats that cashed their tickets in during the week were going to bring their winnings back to Vegas sportsbooks, and Jets betters that could prove they wagered on the game were going to get refunds? Online that's easier, but in Vegas that is not going to fly now is it? Besides the sportsbooks would have taken a massive hit, and while the league may not overtly acknowledge gambling you are absolutely crazy if they don't consider the one thing that makes this league continue to be the most popular sport in the United States - even though its product is contrived, and mostly awful to watch live.

To forfeit that would have been the equivalent of biting the hand that feeds, and while Goodell has no problem hanging players out to dry (PacMan, Chris Henry, Vick next year, and so on) he won't do that to the slightly bigger players in this league (Andy Reid, Bill Bellichek) and/or the biggest players (Vegas, Corporate Sponsors, and Owners). You see just like every other business in America the laborers (who in this case get paid semi-well...sorta) get the shaft in favor of the real power brokers.

Solat13

ryan198 wrote:

Either that or Goodell is going to take away the 32nd pick for the Pats and award the Jets with the 3rd pick which is what should be done. For if you really want to punish a team for cheating you have to actually punish them not give them a bogus fine (there are no rules saying Kraft can't award Bellytits a $500k bonus at the end of the year), and take away a late draft pick. If they actually had to wait until the end of the 2nd round to draft, PLUS watch helplessly as the new #81 goes in to free agency and signs to play side-by-side with the original #81 the balance of power in the NFL would dramatically shift. Which is what should happen when you get caught cheating.

You can't really punish New England other than taking their own draft pick. You can't punish a team for being smart. I mean trading their own pick in 2007 at number 28 to the 49ers for the 49ers 1st coming up this year and a 4th round pick last year which they then traded to Oakland giving them Randy Moss and a top 3 or 4 draft pick next year was brilliant.

That might be one of the greatest draft day steals in history.

I mean when golden boy Don Shula was caught tampering they only took away his team's first round pick in 1970. That's the harshest punishment the league can dole out. But if a team is smart enough to be able to maneuver around that punishment you have to give them credit.

I mean the Eagles made a similar draft day move last year with the Cowboys and got much less in return. The lesson - the Patriots are just a really well run organization and have assembled a helluva team.

JSBE

ryan198 wrote:

...the most popular sport in the United States - even though its product is contrived, and mostly awful to watch live...

smoke crack much? how is the nfl contrived and mostly awful to watch live?

satansbedbugs

Any coach that sends in a player to deliberately hurt another player is a pussy... this isnt the Karate Kid.......( sweep the leg )

JSBE

ryan198 wrote:

Either that or Goodell is going to take away the 32nd pick for the Pats and award the Jets with the 3rd pick which is what should be done. For if you really want to punish a team for cheating you have to actually punish them not give them a bogus fine (there are no rules saying Kraft can't award Bellytits a $500k bonus at the end of the year), and take away a late draft pick. If they actually had to wait until the end of the 2nd round to draft, PLUS watch helplessly as the new #81 goes in to free agency and signs to play side-by-side with the original #81 the balance of power in the NFL would dramatically shift. Which is what should happen when you get caught cheating.

if you actually believe half the stuff you type...wow.

pjhawks

JSBE wrote:

ha ha. belli-cheat. you're killing me. where do you come up with this stuff? that's so original and funny...and original.

hey, how many super bowls has andy reid won?

well I guess for Pats fans the ends does justify the means.

a few questions and answers that pretty much sums everything up I think:

Q: Is Bellicheck a convicted cheater? A: Yes
Q: Was any other team or coach penalized for the same offense? A: No
Q: Do Pats fans justify his cheating by claiming that everyone does it: A: Yes
Q: Then why were no other teams convicted of the same? A: Don't know, maybe at least one Pats fan can give me that answer - i've been waiting for weeks for this answer
Q: Is it possible that his cheating helped them win 3 Super Bowls? A: Yes of course, why else did he do it
Q: Does his past cheating have any affect on this year's team and it's ability to go undefeated? A: Don't think so, this team is awesome and probably unbeatable.


please all you Pats fans here please dispute any of the answers above with FACTS if you can.

josevolution

people i'm asking do any of you gamble the spread it seems like it will be easy $$$ to take the points .....

ryan198

JSBE wrote:

smoke crack much? how is the nfl contrived and mostly awful to watch live?

How is the NFL not contrived? The whole thing is a spectacle of dictated behaviors, that reify commercialism, nationalism, militarism, corporate capitalism, and hypermasculinity. Are you serious that you don't see it everytime you go to a game when the government wastes our tax dollars on flyovers from F-16 while every cheers wildly ("so this is how democracy dies...to wild applause"), to halftime shows sponsored by companies that are making billions of dollars from a war, then ironically celebrate our injured soldiers for making them that money, to commercially based breaks in the game which should have no such breaks, to music made specifically for football games to make more money for corporations which artificially excited the crowd on a 3rd and 13 with 3:14 left in the first quarter, to the ritualistic heavy drinking, and tit flashing, to the seperation of the "little people" from the have's in the way the seating is oriented, to the fact that with the exception of the Patriots and Cowboys (Colts, Pack, and Steelers could fit into this when at full power) are the only two teams worth watching this year, but rich owners will still get their fans to pay for stadiums and watch their crappy teams while billions of dollars that could go to education, and social welfare silently flow into their pockets, and we (me included) herd like cows week after week into games, watch on tv, and do not stop to see what's really going on.

ryan198

JSBE wrote:

if you actually believe half the stuff you type...wow.

I was just saying if you want to punish a team for cheating you should do that. I don't think it's actually going to happen. Well except the fact that Randy Moss, who has always wanted to play for the Cowboys, IS going to be a free agent at the end of the year...I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of possibility. He may stay, but the Pats never give big paydays to old players, they just don't.

my2hands

i can't wait until the Patriot's lose this sunday

a little Super Bowl revenge

g under p

my2hands wrote:

i can't wait until the Patriot's lose this sunday

a little Super Bowl revenge

Many have been saying that for what 10 weeks now, we shall see this weekend again.

Peace

Danimal

ryan198 wrote:

How is the NFL not contrived? The whole thing is a spectacle of dictated behaviors, that reify commercialism, nationalism, militarism, corporate capitalism, and hypermasculinity. Are you serious that you don't see it everytime you go to a game when the government wastes our tax dollars on flyovers from F-16 while every cheers wildly ("so this is how democracy dies...to wild applause"), to halftime shows sponsored by companies that are making billions of dollars from a war, then ironically celebrate our injured soldiers for making them that money, to commercially based breaks in the game which should have no such breaks, to music made specifically for football games to make more money for corporations which artificially excited the crowd on a 3rd and 13 with 3:14 left in the first quarter, to the ritualistic heavy drinking, and tit flashing, to the seperation of the "little people" from the have's in the way the seating is oriented, to the fact that with the exception of the Patriots and Cowboys (Colts, Pack, and Steelers could fit into this when at full power) are the only two teams worth watching this year, but rich owners will still get their fans to pay for stadiums and watch their crappy teams while billions of dollars that could go to education, and social welfare silently flow into their pockets, and we (me included) herd like cows week after week into games, watch on tv, and do not stop to see what's really going on.

Oh Jesus

Solat13

ryan198 wrote:

I was just saying if you want to punish a team for cheating you should do that. I don't think it's actually going to happen. Well except the fact that Randy Moss, who has always wanted to play for the Cowboys, IS going to be a free agent at the end of the year...I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of possibility. He may stay, but the Pats never give big paydays to old players, they just don't.

Moss is going to make about 5 million this year after performance bonuses are paid out. What would stop the Patriots from using the franchise tag on him and pay him approximately 7.75 million next year. That way either he stays a Patriot another season or whatever team that signs him has to give New England 2 first round picks.

The Patriots have used that in the past with Asante Samuel.

ryan198

Solat13 wrote:

Moss is going to make about 5 million this year after performance bonuses are paid out. What would stop the Patriots from using the franchise tag on him and pay him approximately 7.75 million next year. That way either he stays a Patriot another season or whatever team that signs him has to give New England 2 first round picks.

The Patriots have used that in the past with Asante Samuel.

two good points but who are they going to tag then? Samuel or Moss? And, after the way he played this year, plus the fact that the Cowboys themselves have two first round picks, wouldn't you be willing to part with one for Moss? This will be interesting at the end of the year. Besides as sick as Moss is with Stallworth, and Welker, what if he gets matched with Terrell Owens, Patrick Crayton, Terry Glenn (if he's still alive), and Jason Witten, plus MB3 and Julius Jones.

ryan198

Danimal wrote:

Oh Jesus

Dude I was perfectly willing to let it go that the NFL was a contrived spectacle, but I was asked. And can you really dispute any of that, or is it easier just to say Oh Jesus and roll your eyes?

booomm11

ryan198 wrote:

two good points but who are they going to tag then? Samuel or Moss? And, after the way he played this year, plus the fact that the Cowboys themselves have two first round picks, wouldn't you be willing to part with one for Moss? This will be interesting at the end of the year. Besides as sick as Moss is with Stallworth, and Welker, what if he gets matched with Terrell Owens, Patrick Crayton, Terry Glenn (if he's still alive), and Jason Witten, plus MB3 and Julius Jones.

What a circus that would be. your crazy

ryan198

they'd need two quaterbacks for sure! haha.

JSBE

pjhawks wrote:

well I guess for Pats fans the ends does justify the means.

a few questions and answers that pretty much sums everything up I think:

Q: Is Bellicheck a convicted cheater? A: Yes
Q: Was any other team or coach penalized for the same offense? A: No
Q: Do Pats fans justify his cheating by claiming that everyone does it: A: Yes
Q: Then why were no other teams convicted of the same? A: Don't know, maybe at least one Pats fan can give me that answer - i've been waiting for weeks for this answer
Q: Is it possible that his cheating helped them win 3 Super Bowls? A: Yes of course, why else did he do it
Q: Does his past cheating have any affect on this year's team and it's ability to go undefeated? A: Don't think so, this team is awesome and probably unbeatable.


please all you Pats fans here please dispute any of the answers above with FACTS if you can.

i, as a patriots fan for 22 years (i'm 30, so i was obviously a 'squish the fish' and 'bury the bears' bandwagon hopper when i was all of 7 years old) will confirm that in week 1 of the 2007 season the patriots were caught videotaping defensive signals (aka - cheating, "videogate") which is against the nfl rules. this is a fact.

to my knowledge, no other team has been caught doing this (cheating by videotaping defensive signals) in the current 2007 season or in any recent season, therefore, no other team has been penalized in the manner that the patriots have been (fine, loss of 1st round draft pick).

some, but not all patriot fans will try to justify "videogate" by saying that everyone else does it. this is not my excuse.

i will agree that while it is possible that any videotaping of defensive signals could improve the possibility for the patriots or any team to win a game or multiple games which could possibly result in winning a super bowl championship, however, i, like many patriot fans as well as a great number of football "experts" in both the written and electronic media feel that it could not be the only reason that the patriots were able to win three super bowls this decade.

are we good? can we move on now?

JSBE

Danimal wrote:

Oh Jesus

i was really up to a reply back to all the commercialism, nationalism, militarism, corporate capitalism, and hypermasculinity, but then my puny fooball lovin' man brain began to hurt.

and i'm damn positive the pats will franchise moss if they don't reach a deal. samuel is gone. he can go get his nate clements-esque deal and play for a very sub .500 team.

Strangest Tribe

ryan198 wrote:

How is the NFL not contrived? The whole thing is a spectacle of dictated behaviors, that reify commercialism, nationalism, militarism, corporate capitalism, and hypermasculinity. Are you serious that you don't see it everytime you go to a game when the government wastes our tax dollars on flyovers from F-16 while every cheers wildly ("so this is how democracy dies...to wild applause"), to halftime shows sponsored by companies that are making billions of dollars from a war, then ironically celebrate our injured soldiers for making them that money, to commercially based breaks in the game which should have no such breaks, to music made specifically for football games to make more money for corporations which artificially excited the crowd on a 3rd and 13 with 3:14 left in the first quarter, to the ritualistic heavy drinking, and tit flashing, to the seperation of the "little people" from the have's in the way the seating is oriented, to the fact that with the exception of the Patriots and Cowboys (Colts, Pack, and Steelers could fit into this when at full power) are the only two teams worth watching this year, but rich owners will still get their fans to pay for stadiums and watch their crappy teams while billions of dollars that could go to education, and social welfare silently flow into their pockets, and we (me included) herd like cows week after week into games, watch on tv, and do not stop to see what's really going on.

*applause*