Soldier Throws Dog Of Cliff

genie

The Champ wrote:

So you didn't imply it either? This is almost as satisfying as conversing with GTD ..almost..

all i'm saying is don't put fucking words into my mouth. if you can't remember what i've said go back and read my previous posts.

Kilgore_Trout

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

jew monkey?

why do you think the planet of the apes had such a poor jewelry and motion picture industry? no such thing as jew monkeys

if anne frank was able to see the innate good in people i see no reason why i should not be able to do the same... we see the examples you listed as evil according to the social constructs our species has established over centuries... we were able to make these moral decisions because of our mental abilities... other species probably have different criteria for what is acceptable behavior and there are probably a percentage of monkeys in monkey society as deplorable to their opinions as the klu klux klan is to ours

The Champ

AllNiteThing wrote:

You're comparing animal to animal? Do you also value the life of a caterpillar over a snail? Bumblebee over a shark? Fir tree over over rose bush? See how ridiculous it can be? Of course it's ingrained in us (and every species) to value the life of our own over other species' for survival purposes. But I think one of the qualities that does make us unique is the ability to use logic and perspective and perhaps allowing ourselves to be a bit more enlightened about our place in the world.

I don't blame you for thinking otherwise, because we are hardwired to believe in our superiority (and culturally reinforced). Unfortunately this mindstate is what is leading us to devour and eradicate our (distant) relatives in the animal kingdom. Because we have put the rest of the animal kingdom under the heel of our collective foot, we are open to much more scrutiny and criticism of our behavior as a species. I do believe, obviously, that the young are more precious and should be treated as such. Mistreating a baby human, a baby dog or a baby elephant is the most deplorable of behaviors.

This sounds like a bunch of bs lifted from one of your college term papers..So am I scum for eating meat too? Get real, please..

Swan

genie wrote:

all i'm saying is don't put fucking words into my mouth. if you can't remember what i've said go back and read my previous posts.

i don't think you even know what you said.

genie

The Champ wrote:

So now you just said what you didn't say you said before right?

wrong

AllNiteThing

Swan wrote:

You mean to tell me that if you’re at the edge of a cliff with some one whose holding a puppy in one hand and a baby in the other and tell you to chose one to save you would be torn between the two?

Of COURSE we value the baby more. All humans do instinctually. Can YOU tell me why though? Why do you value the baby more? You will say 'well...because it's a baby human! I'm human!'. Ok, well, to me that's way oversimplified and doesn't really explain it. As I stated, it's ingrained in us for survival purposes to value our kind over others. That's why we see races stick together as well. Thankfully we have overcome that mindset. The jump to seeing other species as our equals is a much larger mental jump to make and likely will never find full recognition by our species (as I doubt racism ever will completely).

I look at it as humans are animals. We are one species in an animal kingdom of many. We have many unique qualities that set us far apart. Other animal species have great unique qualities which set them far apart from other animal species. Just as sharks are not more important than elephants or bees aren't more important than spiders, humans aren't anymore important than all the rest. If this is all true, and we can agree on this, then what logical reason is there in the grand scheme of things to value the life of a human baby over a puppy? Or a baby elephant over a baby squirrel? Or a baby rabbit over a baby hippo? Honestly, answer me that.

Given the situation, I would almost certainly save the baby, given the evolutionary bias we have towards our own species, not to mention the social and cultural environment we come from, it would be impossible to make that decision any other way. I would feel incredibly remorseful for giving up the life of the puppy and in the back of my head know that the decision, in reality, is an impossible one.

Kilgore_Trout

genie wrote:

didn't want to look bad in front of other people.

this alone proves a sophistication not seen in the animal kingdom... not saying our decisions should be based so shallowly... but we are able to reason accordingly if we so choose

AllNiteThing

singularity wrote:

wow.

just wow.

You've added almost nothing.


Almost nothing.

The Champ

genie wrote:

all i'm saying is don't put fucking words into my mouth. if you can't remember what i've said go back and read my previous posts.

Well then don't act like we're stupid and incapable of interpreting what you implied with what you said or didn't say. Seriously, there is no need to read your statements again..calm down..

genie

Swan wrote:

i don't think you even know what you said.

oh, no need to be so bitchy...... it's because in my eyes you are nothing but another animal, isn't it?

Vedderlution_Baby

The Champ wrote:

This sounds like a bunch of bs lifted from one of your college term papers..So am I scum for eating meat too? Get real, please..

I think I understand what the dude is saying. Something along the lines of since we, as humans, have decided that we as a species are more evolved, more intelligent and as a whole, overall better than any other species on earth that we should be under more scrutiny and appalled that we get to the point that someone can just toss something alive off a cliff and not give a shit.

Swan

AllNiteThing wrote:

Of COURSE we value the baby more. All humans do instinctually. Can YOU tell me why though? Why do you value the baby more? You will say 'well...because it's a baby human! I'm human!'. Ok, well, to me that's way oversimplified and doesn't really explain it. As I stated, it's ingrained in us for survival purposes to value our kind over others. That's why we see races stick together as well. Thankfully we have overcome that mindset. The jump to seeing other species as our equals is a much larger mental jump to make and likely will never find full recognition by our species (as I doubt racism ever will completely).

I look at it as humans are animals. We are one species in an animal kingdom of many. We have many unique qualities that set us far apart. Other animal species have great unique qualities which set them far apart from other animal species. Just as sharks are not more important than elephants or bees aren't more important than spiders, humans aren't anymore important than all the rest. If this is all true, and we can agree on this, then what logical reason is there in the grand scheme of things to value the life of a human baby over a puppy? Or a baby elephant over a baby squirrel? Or a baby rabbit over a baby hippo? Honestly, answer me that.

Given the situation, I would almost certainly save the baby, given the evolutionary bias we have towards our own species, not to mention the social and cultural environment we come from, it would be impossible to make that decision any other way. I would feel incredibly remorseful for giving up the life of the puppy and in the back of my head know that the decision, in reality, is an impossible one.

How about saving the baby because it’s the right thing to do; because the baby might grow up to contribute to society in a positive way; because it might do more than shit on the ground and have 6 babies every six months?

And yes, because it is a HUMAN, you act like it’s a bad thing to be human, at least you’re not a puppy being thrown off a cliff.

AllNiteThing

sgossard3 wrote:

... have some pride in your species...

Why exactly?

Also, can't there be pride in one's species without the need to feel superior and destructive towards other species? A German can have pride that they are German, but that doesn't make it ok to murder 6 million Jews, does it? Someone from the Congo can be proud of their race, doesn't mean they have a right to throw a Pygmy off a cliff. There's a difference between pride and being an asshole.

Kilgore_Trout

AllNiteThing wrote:

Of COURSE we value the baby more. All humans do instinctually. Can YOU tell me why though? Why do you value the baby more? You will say 'well...because it's a baby human! I'm human!'. Ok, well, to me that's way oversimplified and doesn't really explain it. As I stated, it's ingrained in us for survival purposes to value our kind over others. That's why we see races stick together as well. Thankfully we have overcome that mindset. The jump to seeing other species as our equals is a much larger mental jump to make and likely will never find full recognition by our species (as I doubt racism ever will completely).

I look at it as humans are animals. We are one species in an animal kingdom of many. We have many unique qualities that set us far apart. Other animal species have great unique qualities which set them far apart from other animal species. Just as sharks are not more important than elephants or bees aren't more important than spiders, humans aren't anymore important than all the rest. If this is all true, and we can agree on this, then what logical reason is there in the grand scheme of things to value the life of a human baby over a puppy? Or a baby elephant over a baby squirrel? Or a baby rabbit over a baby hippo? Honestly, answer me that.

Given the situation, I would almost certainly save the baby, given the evolutionary bias we have towards our own species, not to mention the social and cultural environment we come from, it would be impossible to make that decision any other way. I would feel incredibly remorseful for giving up the life of the puppy and in the back of my head know that the decision, in reality, is an impossible one.

why should we value a human more? humans saw value in the flight of birds so we invented a machine that allowed us to fly... we saw value in the swimming of fish so we invented a machine that allowed us to go deep into the oceans... innovation and reason are enough of a differentiation in my book to give humans greater value... there is no reason i should not enjoy the card evolution has dealt us

genie

sgossard3 wrote:

this alone proves a sophistication not seen in the animal kingdom... not saying our decisions should be based so shallowly... but we are able to reason accordingly if we so choose

how do you know other animals don't think in the same way? give me some solid scientific proof of this.

Kilgore_Trout

AllNiteThing wrote:

Why exactly?

Also, can't there be pride in one's species without the need to feel superior and destructive towards other species? A German can have pride that they are German, but that doesn't make it ok to murder 6 million Jews, does it? Someone from the Congo can be proud of their race, doesn't mean they have a right to throw a Pygmy off a cliff. There's a difference between pride and being an asshole.

are you saying jews are a different species? i said pride in species... not nationality/religion... racism/persecution is a whole other issue than what we are talking about here

Somnium

genie wrote:

how do you know other animals don't think in the same way? give me some solid scientific proof of this.

milkbones

PJ_Saluki

genie wrote:

yep, that prick never wondered how much trouble people caused through their growth/evolution to it's surroundings and species, just like PJ_Saluki never wondered i would assume.

Kill 'em all and let the taxidermist sort 'em out.

AllNiteThing

sgossard3 wrote:

have human beings fucked things up? YES... we have a much more intricate and complex social context in which we exist

That's only in YOUR reality and what your senses tell you. We have very little grasp on the social workings of most species and a few that we do know a lot about has shows that they have extremely intricate social fabrics. Don't forget how simple we were in tribes for a few million years. This culture of the past 6,000 years has changed things dramatically from where we were, but would you value the life of one human in this culture over that of a tribal in the Australian outback or the Amazon basin? I wouldn't. They're not very far off from monkeys, which aren't very far off from other wild species, and on and on. Don't let your American Idol and Pearl Jam and war distract you from the fact that you are ANIMAL.

AllNiteThing

The Champ wrote:

Well, my opinion is that i'd rather my dog die/killed than my mom for example. If you truly value the life of your dog over your 'human' family/loved ones than it's more than mere opinions, but pure insanity..no matter on what level/angle you attempt to argue..

Then you are talking personal relationships, in which case you throw all hypotheticals and groupings out the window. I'd rather save my cat than my dog, my dog than my goldfish, my uncle than my cat, my mom than my uncle, my child than my mom, etc etc. This has no bearing on the hypotheticals of special comparisons. Those are direct personal and relative comparisons you are talking about and make your analogy irrelevant.