This sounds like a bunch of bs lifted from one of your college term papers..So am I scum for eating meat too? Get real, please..
I think I understand what the dude is saying. Something along the lines of since we, as humans, have decided that we as a species are more evolved, more intelligent and as a whole, overall better than any other species on earth that we should be under more scrutiny and appalled that we get to the point that someone can just toss something alive off a cliff and not give a shit.
Of COURSE we value the baby more. All humans do instinctually. Can YOU tell me why though? Why do you value the baby more? You will say 'well...because it's a baby human! I'm human!'. Ok, well, to me that's way oversimplified and doesn't really explain it. As I stated, it's ingrained in us for survival purposes to value our kind over others. That's why we see races stick together as well. Thankfully we have overcome that mindset. The jump to seeing other species as our equals is a much larger mental jump to make and likely will never find full recognition by our species (as I doubt racism ever will completely).
I look at it as humans are animals. We are one species in an animal kingdom of many. We have many unique qualities that set us far apart. Other animal species have great unique qualities which set them far apart from other animal species. Just as sharks are not more important than elephants or bees aren't more important than spiders, humans aren't anymore important than all the rest. If this is all true, and we can agree on this, then what logical reason is there in the grand scheme of things to value the life of a human baby over a puppy? Or a baby elephant over a baby squirrel? Or a baby rabbit over a baby hippo? Honestly, answer me that.
Given the situation, I would almost certainly save the baby, given the evolutionary bias we have towards our own species, not to mention the social and cultural environment we come from, it would be impossible to make that decision any other way. I would feel incredibly remorseful for giving up the life of the puppy and in the back of my head know that the decision, in reality, is an impossible one.
How about saving the baby because it’s the right thing to do; because the baby might grow up to contribute to society in a positive way; because it might do more than shit on the ground and have 6 babies every six months?
And yes, because it is a HUMAN, you act like it’s a bad thing to be human, at least you’re not a puppy being thrown off a cliff.
Also, can't there be pride in one's species without the need to feel superior and destructive towards other species? A German can have pride that they are German, but that doesn't make it ok to murder 6 million Jews, does it? Someone from the Congo can be proud of their race, doesn't mean they have a right to throw a Pygmy off a cliff. There's a difference between pride and being an asshole.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Of COURSE we value the baby more. All humans do instinctually. Can YOU tell me why though? Why do you value the baby more? You will say 'well...because it's a baby human! I'm human!'. Ok, well, to me that's way oversimplified and doesn't really explain it. As I stated, it's ingrained in us for survival purposes to value our kind over others. That's why we see races stick together as well. Thankfully we have overcome that mindset. The jump to seeing other species as our equals is a much larger mental jump to make and likely will never find full recognition by our species (as I doubt racism ever will completely).
I look at it as humans are animals. We are one species in an animal kingdom of many. We have many unique qualities that set us far apart. Other animal species have great unique qualities which set them far apart from other animal species. Just as sharks are not more important than elephants or bees aren't more important than spiders, humans aren't anymore important than all the rest. If this is all true, and we can agree on this, then what logical reason is there in the grand scheme of things to value the life of a human baby over a puppy? Or a baby elephant over a baby squirrel? Or a baby rabbit over a baby hippo? Honestly, answer me that.
Given the situation, I would almost certainly save the baby, given the evolutionary bias we have towards our own species, not to mention the social and cultural environment we come from, it would be impossible to make that decision any other way. I would feel incredibly remorseful for giving up the life of the puppy and in the back of my head know that the decision, in reality, is an impossible one.
why should we value a human more? humans saw value in the flight of birds so we invented a machine that allowed us to fly... we saw value in the swimming of fish so we invented a machine that allowed us to go deep into the oceans... innovation and reason are enough of a differentiation in my book to give humans greater value... there is no reason i should not enjoy the card evolution has dealt us
this alone proves a sophistication not seen in the animal kingdom... not saying our decisions should be based so shallowly... but we are able to reason accordingly if we so choose
how do you know other animals don't think in the same way? give me some solid scientific proof of this.
Also, can't there be pride in one's species without the need to feel superior and destructive towards other species? A German can have pride that they are German, but that doesn't make it ok to murder 6 million Jews, does it? Someone from the Congo can be proud of their race, doesn't mean they have a right to throw a Pygmy off a cliff. There's a difference between pride and being an asshole.
are you saying jews are a different species? i said pride in species... not nationality/religion... racism/persecution is a whole other issue than what we are talking about here
yep, that prick never wondered how much trouble people caused through their growth/evolution to it's surroundings and species, just like PJ_Saluki never wondered i would assume.
Kill 'em all and let the taxidermist sort 'em out.
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
have human beings fucked things up? YES... we have a much more intricate and complex social context in which we exist
That's only in YOUR reality and what your senses tell you. We have very little grasp on the social workings of most species and a few that we do know a lot about has shows that they have extremely intricate social fabrics. Don't forget how simple we were in tribes for a few million years. This culture of the past 6,000 years has changed things dramatically from where we were, but would you value the life of one human in this culture over that of a tribal in the Australian outback or the Amazon basin? I wouldn't. They're not very far off from monkeys, which aren't very far off from other wild species, and on and on. Don't let your American Idol and Pearl Jam and war distract you from the fact that you are ANIMAL.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Well, my opinion is that i'd rather my dog die/killed than my mom for example. If you truly value the life of your dog over your 'human' family/loved ones than it's more than mere opinions, but pure insanity..no matter on what level/angle you attempt to argue..
Then you are talking personal relationships, in which case you throw all hypotheticals and groupings out the window. I'd rather save my cat than my dog, my dog than my goldfish, my uncle than my cat, my mom than my uncle, my child than my mom, etc etc. This has no bearing on the hypotheticals of special comparisons. Those are direct personal and relative comparisons you are talking about and make your analogy irrelevant.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
:rolleyes: thank you i'm so enlightened by this now. it is such an eye opener i've got to go and lie down now, ooohh all this information is giving my animal brain a headache :rolleyes:
I think I understand what the dude is saying. Something along the lines of since we, as humans, have decided that we as a species are more evolved, more intelligent and as a whole, overall better than any other species on earth that we should be under more scrutiny and appalled that we get to the point that someone can just toss something alive off a cliff and not give a shit.
I think everyone agrees that it's not cool to throw dogs off cliffs. Personally, I'd rather toss Hillary over than a dog, but that's just me. I'm glad you found something interesting and enlightening in that 'dude's' paper, but I certainly did not. I do understand what you are saying though and of course in a perfect world all species should be on the same level. But to compare baby Elephants, Cows and stuff to human babies is just not the reality I live in..is all..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
How about saving the baby because it’s the right thing to do; because the baby might grow up to contribute to society in a positive way; because it might do more than shit on the ground and have 6 babies every six months?
And yes, because it is a HUMAN, you act like it’s a bad thing to be human, at least you’re not a puppy being thrown off a cliff.
That's not an answer, just a cop out. Still waiting for an intelligent response to my numerous logical arguments, from the (human animals > all other animals) group.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
I think everyone agrees that it's not cool to throw dogs off cliffs. Personally, I'd rather toss Hillary over than a dog, but that's just me. I'm glad you found something interesting and enlightening in that 'dude's' paper, but I certainly did not. I do understand what you are saying though and of course in a perfect world all species should be on the same level. But to compare baby Elephants, Cows and stuff to human babies is just not the reality I live in..is all..
I was just giving the cliff note version. I've already pondered this question before.
Then you are talking personal relationships, in which case you throw all hypotheticals and groupings out the window. I'd rather save my cat than my dog, my dog than my goldfish, my uncle than my cat, my mom than my uncle, my child than my mom, etc etc. This has no bearing on the hypotheticals of special comparisons. Those are direct personal and relative comparisons you are talking about and make your analogy irrelevant.
yep, i think it goes down to the connection between us and others. for example if i don't get on with my grandfather why should i choose him over my dearly loved dog or vice versa
That's only in YOUR reality and what your senses tell you. We have very little grasp on the social workings of most species and a few that we do know a lot about has shows that they have extremely intricate social fabrics. Don't forget how simple we were in tribes for a few million years. This culture of the past 6,000 years has changed things dramatically from where we were, but would you value the life of one human in this culture over that of a tribal in the Australian outback or the Amazon basin? I wouldn't. They're not very far off from monkeys, which aren't very far off from other wild species, and on and on. Don't let your American Idol and Pearl Jam and war distract you from the fact that you are ANIMAL.
i am not denying the fact that i am an animal... we can just as easily break EVERYTHING down to a carbon code tho... why generalize so broadly? the fact of the matter is from what we do know about neurology and brain function that humans have a greater capacity for learning and social understanding and other intricacies not seen in other animal brains... we have evolution to thank for all these things no doubt... and as humankind continues to digress (as i believe we are, despite technology) i imagine other species will evolve towards more sophisticated human-like behavior and we will all eventually be on the same page... until then i will leave the idea of equality between man and animal to the hippies and beastiality enthusiasts (no offense)
I think everyone agrees that it's not cool to throw dogs off cliffs. Personally, I'd rather toss Hillary over than a dog, but that's just me. I'm glad you found something interesting and enlightening in that 'dude's' paper, but I certainly did not. I do understand what you are saying though and of course in a perfect world all species should be on the same level. But to compare baby Elephants, Cows and stuff to human babies is just not the reality I live in..is all..
so if i say humans = animals, would you agree or disagree?
why should we value a human more? humans saw value in the flight of birds so we invented a machine that allowed us to fly... we saw value in the swimming of fish so we invented a machine that allowed us to go deep into the oceans... innovation and reason are enough of a differentiation in my book to give humans greater value... there is no reason i should not enjoy the card evolution has dealt us
Great enjoy...good for you. So now we can (temporarily) fly and (temporarily) swim underwater. What does this do for us? How does this make us somehow....better??? It just makes us different, no? What about you feels the need to turn special qualities and differences into a game of comparisons and one upsmanship? Why the need to feel superior? Because of an elephants intricate social skills, organization, honoring of their dead, etc, etc. Does that make them a ... 'better'? ... animal than, say, a fox? Does it make them more important to the universe than a tarantula? What about bats...they have internal sonar for crying out loud! They must be 'better' than elephants.
See how ridiculous special comparisons are in the grand scheme of things? Pretty much irrelevant. And so is this human superiority complex.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
are you saying jews are a different species? i said pride in species... not nationality/religion... racism/persecution is a whole other issue than what we are talking about here
Not really.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
How about saving the baby because it’s the right thing to do; because the baby might grow up to contribute to society in a positive way; because it might do more than shit on the ground and have 6 babies every six months?
And yes, because it is a HUMAN, you act like it’s a bad thing to be human, at least you’re not a puppy being thrown off a cliff.
There are guide dogs you know, the ones that do contribute to the society and make life easier for disabled people. there are those dogs that sniff out drugs.... they contribute to the society too.
a person is a fucking looney toon if they will save a puppy from being dropped off a cliff before an infant.
In other words, you haven't read any post longer than a sentence in length, thus you are just assuming what other posters are saying based on your own extrapolations. Thanks.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
i am not denying the fact that i am an animal... we can just as easily break EVERYTHING down to a carbon code tho... why generalize so broadly? the fact of the matter is from what we do know about neurology and brain function that humans have a greater capacity for learning and social understanding and other intricacies not seen in other animal brains... we have evolution to thank for all these things no doubt... and as humankind continues to digress (as i believe we are, despite technology) i imagine other species will evolve towards more sophisticated human-like behavior and we will all eventually be on the same page... until then i will leave the idea of equality between man and animal to the beastiality enthusiasts (no offense)
But as much capacity as we have for understanding and realizing, we still revert back to caveman antics. And although we create amazing things such as airplanes and submarines, we also create nuclear bombs and guns that shoot thousands of bullets a minute. We may do more complex things than other species but we also do more disgusting, unforgivable things also.
Great enjoy...good for you. So now we can (temporarily) fly and (temporarily) swim underwater. What does this do for us? How does this make us somehow....better??? It just makes us different, no? What about you feels the need to turn special qualities and differences into a game of comparisons and one upsmanship? Why the need to feel superior? Because of an elephants intricate social skills, organization, honoring of their dead, etc, etc. Does that make them a ... 'better'? ... animal than, say, a fox? Does it make them more important to the universe than a tarantula? What about bats...they have internal sonar for crying out loud! They must be 'better' than elephants.
See how ridiculous special comparisons are in the grand scheme of things? Pretty much irrelevant. And so is this human superiority complex.
ok since you threw in "(temporarily)"... how bout if human scientist come up with the genesplicing abilities used to make a mouse glow-in-the-dark (already done) and magnify that on a human scale so that humans could do the best things of every species... would you then still argue that this super species hybrid is not the most superior? i think every animal has something incredible to offer to the world (except mosquitos... boo) but humans are the most intriguing overall... i guess its a matter of opinion... no point really arguing it... i think weve had a nice civil conversation out of it in either case
That's not an answer, just a cop out. Still waiting for an intelligent response to my numerous logical arguments, from the (human animals > all other animals) group.
The fact that you believe your arguments are logical speaks volumes about how fucking twisted you are. What I said is in no way a cop out; it’s the reasons why I would save a baby over a stinking little puppy.
And anyone who wouldn’t do the same is a murderous son of bitch.
i am not denying the fact that i am an animal... we can just as easily break EVERYTHING down to a carbon code tho... why generalize so broadly? the fact of the matter is from what we do know about neurology and brain function that humans have a greater capacity for learning and social understanding and other intricacies not seen in other animal brains... we have evolution to thank for all these things no doubt... and as humankind continues to digress (as i believe we are, despite technology) i imagine other species will evolve towards more sophisticated human-like behavior and we will all eventually be on the same page... until then i will leave the idea of equality between man and animal to the hippies and beastiality enthusiasts (no offense)
But I still ask, why does a 'great capacity for learning and social understanding (dolphins would disagree) and other intricacies not seen in other animal brains' mean thusly that humans are 'better' or 'more important' than other animals in the grand scheme of things? Surely all animals are not equal in these regards. Do you then classify each animal as better or more important than the other based on these self appointed characteristics? Sounds more nutty to me than valuing all life equally.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Comments
I think I understand what the dude is saying. Something along the lines of since we, as humans, have decided that we as a species are more evolved, more intelligent and as a whole, overall better than any other species on earth that we should be under more scrutiny and appalled that we get to the point that someone can just toss something alive off a cliff and not give a shit.
How about saving the baby because it’s the right thing to do; because the baby might grow up to contribute to society in a positive way; because it might do more than shit on the ground and have 6 babies every six months?
And yes, because it is a HUMAN, you act like it’s a bad thing to be human, at least you’re not a puppy being thrown off a cliff.
Why exactly?
Also, can't there be pride in one's species without the need to feel superior and destructive towards other species? A German can have pride that they are German, but that doesn't make it ok to murder 6 million Jews, does it? Someone from the Congo can be proud of their race, doesn't mean they have a right to throw a Pygmy off a cliff. There's a difference between pride and being an asshole.
nowadays hits you when you're young
http://seanbriceart.com/
how do you know other animals don't think in the same way? give me some solid scientific proof of this.
http://seanbriceart.com/
milkbones
Kill 'em all and let the taxidermist sort 'em out.
That's only in YOUR reality and what your senses tell you. We have very little grasp on the social workings of most species and a few that we do know a lot about has shows that they have extremely intricate social fabrics. Don't forget how simple we were in tribes for a few million years. This culture of the past 6,000 years has changed things dramatically from where we were, but would you value the life of one human in this culture over that of a tribal in the Australian outback or the Amazon basin? I wouldn't. They're not very far off from monkeys, which aren't very far off from other wild species, and on and on. Don't let your American Idol and Pearl Jam and war distract you from the fact that you are ANIMAL.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Then you are talking personal relationships, in which case you throw all hypotheticals and groupings out the window. I'd rather save my cat than my dog, my dog than my goldfish, my uncle than my cat, my mom than my uncle, my child than my mom, etc etc. This has no bearing on the hypotheticals of special comparisons. Those are direct personal and relative comparisons you are talking about and make your analogy irrelevant.
nowadays hits you when you're young
:rolleyes: thank you i'm so enlightened by this now. it is such an eye opener i've got to go and lie down now, ooohh all this information is giving my animal brain a headache :rolleyes:
Or a jew monkey.
nowadays hits you when you're young
I think everyone agrees that it's not cool to throw dogs off cliffs. Personally, I'd rather toss Hillary over than a dog, but that's just me. I'm glad you found something interesting and enlightening in that 'dude's' paper, but I certainly did not. I do understand what you are saying though and of course in a perfect world all species should be on the same level. But to compare baby Elephants, Cows and stuff to human babies is just not the reality I live in..is all..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Not at all...lions eat meat, wolves eat meat, etc etc. Slaughterhouses and the like are wrong though, IMO.
I didn't say you are scum...guilt complex?
I am real, and no I've never written a term paper on the subject.
nowadays hits you when you're young
me? i just like to sit back and watch the show.
but you want me to add something?
a person is a fucking looney toon if they will save a puppy from being dropped off a cliff before an infant.
That's not an answer, just a cop out. Still waiting for an intelligent response to my numerous logical arguments, from the (human animals > all other animals) group.
nowadays hits you when you're young
I was just giving the cliff note version. I've already pondered this question before.
yep, i think it goes down to the connection between us and others. for example if i don't get on with my grandfather why should i choose him over my dearly loved dog or vice versa
I'm sure the mother of the puppy would agree it's relative.
http://seanbriceart.com/
so if i say humans = animals, would you agree or disagree?
Great enjoy...good for you. So now we can (temporarily) fly and (temporarily) swim underwater. What does this do for us? How does this make us somehow....better??? It just makes us different, no? What about you feels the need to turn special qualities and differences into a game of comparisons and one upsmanship? Why the need to feel superior? Because of an elephants intricate social skills, organization, honoring of their dead, etc, etc. Does that make them a ... 'better'? ... animal than, say, a fox? Does it make them more important to the universe than a tarantula? What about bats...they have internal sonar for crying out loud! They must be 'better' than elephants.
See how ridiculous special comparisons are in the grand scheme of things? Pretty much irrelevant. And so is this human superiority complex.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Not really.
nowadays hits you when you're young
There are guide dogs you know, the ones that do contribute to the society and make life easier for disabled people. there are those dogs that sniff out drugs.... they contribute to the society too.
just thought i'd mention it in here
Did you just say cliff note? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
In other words, you haven't read any post longer than a sentence in length, thus you are just assuming what other posters are saying based on your own extrapolations. Thanks.
nowadays hits you when you're young
But as much capacity as we have for understanding and realizing, we still revert back to caveman antics. And although we create amazing things such as airplanes and submarines, we also create nuclear bombs and guns that shoot thousands of bullets a minute. We may do more complex things than other species but we also do more disgusting, unforgivable things also.
http://seanbriceart.com/
The fact that you believe your arguments are logical speaks volumes about how fucking twisted you are. What I said is in no way a cop out; it’s the reasons why I would save a baby over a stinking little puppy.
And anyone who wouldn’t do the same is a murderous son of bitch.
But I still ask, why does a 'great capacity for learning and social understanding (dolphins would disagree) and other intricacies not seen in other animal brains' mean thusly that humans are 'better' or 'more important' than other animals in the grand scheme of things? Surely all animals are not equal in these regards. Do you then classify each animal as better or more important than the other based on these self appointed characteristics? Sounds more nutty to me than valuing all life equally.
nowadays hits you when you're young