The reason that it's listed as the turning point, it's the first time Rivera had blown a save for the Yankees to lose against the Red Sox since April 13, 2002. That was so long ago that Rickey Henderson was still batting leadoff for the Red Sox that game and Ugie Urbina saved the game before being imprisoned for attacking 5 men with a machete in Venezuela.
Going into the day of the fight, the Red Sox were 9.5 games out against the Yankees and had lost 4 in a row to the Yanks - 3 of which were saved by Rivera. After that game, the Sox no longer saw Rivera as the unbeatable pitcher that had plagued them over the years. Rivera blew another save later that year in September and we know what happened in October and then he blew a couple more to start 2005. That game changed the mindset of the team who thought it was just going to be another inevitable year of playoff futility. I remember watching that game with Nothingman44 who was visiting from Providence and we always talk about that game as the game that first gave the fans hope that 2004 was a year that something special was going to happen.
That's fine if you argue it changed a mindset against a team...which to me is still a little thin of an argument when you consider the Sox were within 5 outs of defeating them, and had played with them most of the year...but fine I'll give that to you.
What I'm saying is that it is overblown as a "turnaround" game for the Red Sox when it was clearly not. Following that game the Sox would go 11-8, hardly a hot streak. From that point on however, they would only lose one series (Yankees), and split one series for the rest of the year (Orioles). The actual turnaround was when they got rid of Nomar, and then got used to each other. However, Theo Epstein on the front cover trading Nomar and a minor leaguer, for O-Cab, Mientkewicz, and D-Roberts, isn't as compelling to the Boston market as Veritek popping A-Rod in the face with a glove. Plus it doesn't make as fun a legend as the idea that the Red Sox completely turned it around when A-Rod got hit in the face by the Red Sox "tough as nails" catcher.
That's fine if you argue it changed a mindset against a team...which to me is still a little thin of an argument when you consider the Sox were within 5 outs of defeating them, and had played with them most of the year...but fine I'll give that to you.
What I'm saying is that it is overblown as a "turnaround" game for the Red Sox when it was clearly not. Following that game the Sox would go 11-8, hardly a hot streak. From that point on however, they would only lose one series (Yankees), and split one series for the rest of the year (Orioles). The actual turnaround was when they got rid of Nomar, and then got used to each other. However, Theo Epstein on the front cover trading Nomar and a minor leaguer, for O-Cab, Mientkewicz, and D-Roberts, isn't as compelling to the Boston market as Veritek popping A-Rod in the face with a glove. Plus it doesn't make as fun a legend as the idea that the Red Sox completely turned it around when A-Rod got hit in the face by the Red Sox "tough as nails" catcher.
Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan are fans. The book was written for the fans. It's not a statistical analysis or an in depth look at the season. It's like saying that Bill Simmons' book should be taken seriously as an analysis of the season. The book was written for fun and many of the fans of the Red Sox believe that game was the turning point for the team.
Besides Dave Roberts was not part of the Nomar deal. It was a separate trade with the Dodgers for Henri Staley who never made the majors.
And it did change the mindset of the team. The three Yankees games before the fight - the Yankees rallied for a win in the 8th, Captain Jeets dives into the crowd to catch a foul ball in an extra inning game when Nomar tells Francona that he can't pinch hit in a big situation and the day before, Foulke blows a game and in all three Rivera had a big role. Beating Rivera that game changed the mindset for the team that hadn't beaten him in a year and a half.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan are fans. The book was written for the fans. It's not a statistical analysis or an in depth look at the season. It's like saying that Bill Simmons' book should be taken seriously as an analysis of the season. The book was written for fun and many of the fans of the Red Sox believe that game was the turning point for the team.
Besides Dave Roberts was not part of the Nomar deal. It was a separate trade with the Dodgers for Henri Staley who never made the majors.
And it did change the mindset of the team. The three Yankees games before the fight - the Yankees rallied for a win in the 8th, Captain Jeets dives into the crowd to catch a foul ball in an extra inning game when Nomar tells Francona that he can't pinch hit in a big situation and the day before, Foulke blows a game and in all three Rivera had a big role. Beating Rivera that game changed the mindset for the team that hadn't beaten him in a year and a half.
I said Nomar AND a minor leaguer (forgot his name), plus cash if you want to get super technical, for those three. Like I said, it may/could have been a mindset changing game, but the trades, which were massively unpopular with the fans, were a bigger deal. I distinctly remember my buddy, a very knowledgable and, like you SOLAT, deep thinking Sox fan calling me when I was in a wal-mart with a voice that sounded like he lost a family member. I'm not sure you reaction, but even my g/f's (now wife's) fam was deeply disturbed by it.
BUT for once in my life I was right. I told them O-Cab was a real nice addition at short, not to mention a forgotten clutch hitter (see: the Expos whenever Vladdy went down), and that Mientk(whatever) would help the D, but then Cabrera made a bad error in like his 2nd or 3rd game and they all called crying again. I won't take any credit for talking up Roberts, but, in Red Sox lore, he turned out to be as important, if not more so, than punching A-Rod's face.
As for the books, they are fun books, but they do play a huge part in remembering the past. I'd venture to say that Simmons and the O'Nan/King book will be read by a hell of a lot more peeps than my dissertation will be - or even the Red Sox Century Book (which is fantastic btw). So I would argue that they do "matter" to a lot of people. Again, maybe not you, but a bunch of the peeps I interviewed often sighted those as "must reads" when doing my research.
No Code...I love your tag about Hank, but don't your Sawx have a street named after an owner who went through life fat, drunk, and stupid? Some people have all the luck .
No Code...I love your tag about Hank, but don't your Sawx have a street named after an owner who went through life fat, drunk, and stupid? Some people have all the luck .
not sure about fat or drunk .... but Tom Yawkey was certainly one thing ... racist.
I didn't say it...but it was implicit. Kind of funny how a stadium memorializes a racist then has an ownership that wonders why no black people want to go there (this is all true I've spoken to the new ownership's underlings -who are black women- and they just laugh). Anway I'm not sure if he was fat (his early days don't look like it from wikipedia), but Yawkey was a huge time drunk. He almost traded Ted Williams for an oft-injured Joe DiMaggio in 1947, after a drunken night out with the owners for the Yankees...so much for a rivalry (see also: Steinbrenner/Henry).
Anyway Jimed14, I'll get you my dissy once it's passed (at least the 2 chapters on the Red Sox hopefully this fall/winter). Not that you care what I write, but I know that you have said you are a huge Howard Bryant fan, and he's prominent throughout (including a bunch of sweet interview, meaning new, stuff). SOLAT, building from someone else's post on here about being sorry for offending other people...I just want to say how much I look forward to your replies, b/c you keep me honest, and grounded in my writing. I hope you don't feel like I'm compromising your thread, b/c I really, really have a good time having a back and forth convo with you about the sawx. I guess the main thing is that you (and if you don't think I do, I do) read and respond to my posts rather than just incite (sometimes I do this after a crappy day of writing, but mostly I try to add).
I said Nomar AND a minor leaguer (forgot his name), plus cash if you want to get super technical, for those three. Like I said, it may/could have been a mindset changing game, but the trades, which were massively unpopular with the fans, were a bigger deal. I distinctly remember my buddy, a very knowledgable and, like you SOLAT, deep thinking Sox fan calling me when I was in a wal-mart with a voice that sounded like he lost a family member. I'm not sure you reaction, but even my g/f's (now wife's) fam was deeply disturbed by it.
BUT for once in my life I was right. I told them O-Cab was a real nice addition at short, not to mention a forgotten clutch hitter (see: the Expos whenever Vladdy went down), and that Mientk(whatever) would help the D, but then Cabrera made a bad error in like his 2nd or 3rd game and they all called crying again. I won't take any credit for talking up Roberts, but, in Red Sox lore, he turned out to be as important, if not more so, than punching A-Rod's face.
As for the books, they are fun books, but they do play a huge part in remembering the past. I'd venture to say that Simmons and the O'Nan/King book will be read by a hell of a lot more peeps than my dissertation will be - or even the Red Sox Century Book (which is fantastic btw). So I would argue that they do "matter" to a lot of people. Again, maybe not you, but a bunch of the peeps I interviewed often sighted those as "must reads" when doing my research.
Ryan, you're a good guy and I had a good time hanging out with you in Baltimore which is why I like your discussions on here. And I know you read everything and process before responding which makes for good discussions. I don't have a lot of time at work right now to reply, but I thought I'd give you a couple of quotes from a few key members of the Red Sox regarding the Varitek A-Rod fight and why I feel it's a turning point.
David Ortiz (speaking about the fight) - "I think that's the best thing that ever happened to us. It's the start of something good."
Mark Bellhorn (after the fight) - "This is what we know we are capable of doing. We've been kind of up and down all year. Hopefully, we can carry this emotion and momentum the rest of the season."
Terry Francona (after the fight) - "I hope we look back a while from now and we're saying that this brought us together . . . I hope a long time from now we look back and say this did it."
Theo Epstein (after the fight) - "It was a classic. It had more intensity than most postseason games. This win and the way it happened should prove to be very important to us down the line. It's hard to have a more meaningful regular-season victory. We've been kind of waiting to have this feeling all year."
Bill James (after the season) - "The turning point of our season was either the July 24th comeback win against the Yankees, or the trade of Nomar Garciaparra six days later."
Yawkey was a racist and a drunk, but unfortunately he wasn't that different than the people of his time in Boston. People obviously care more to think about his love for the team and how he put his money where his mout was. In the end his problems kept the Sox from being the Champions he wanted them to be. I am sure I have read of good deeds he did, even those don't absolve him of his predjudice, it is not always right to paint a man from one perspective alone.
I am sure I have read of good deeds he did, even those don't absolve him of his predjudice, it is not always right to paint a man from one perspective alone.
I'm sure he had a hand in the Red Sox partnership with the Jimmy Fund.
I don't recall him ever being classified as cheap ... the Sox spent money on players ... so, there's that.
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I'm sure he had a hand in the Red Sox partnership with the Jimmy Fund.
I don't recall him ever being classified as cheap ... the Sox spent money on players ... so, there's that.
Yawkey definitely did some good stuff (Jimmy Fund included), but his memorialization by the Sox without really saying too much publicly (they are the only organization in baseball with a diversity department, the only one to annually recognized Jackie Robinson outside of J.R. Day, and even give out college scholarships to primarily minorities behind the scenes) still provides an obvious barrier to change.
I'm actually going to work this into my class this fall by having my students go to a McDonald's in downtown B-more. It'll be the first time many of my white students (98% of my class) are an obvious minority in a social situation, and I want them to come up with a plan to try to get more "white" people to go to that particular McDonald's. Like would they have a "Caucasian Day" similar to the way MLB teams do Latino or Ladies Nights? Would they be more compelled to go to that McDonald's if they ran a night like that? Maybe then they'd have to see that a welcoming atmosphere is more critical than any lip service paid through gender/sexuality/ethnic specific "days". The Red Sox are working on this, but still it's clearly not there yet.
P.S. Yawkey went back and forth between free wheeling and cheap. From 33-49 he spent, then when they lost to the Yankees, he withdrew and wanted to maybe even move the Sox until 1967. Then he and his wife spent again, but, by then the atmosphere was set (except 67-78) that Boston was a white place to play. Black players even had it in their contract that they could not be traded to the Sox. Mo Vaughn changed that a little, but my guess is that Pedro Martinez will prove to be the most important player in recent Red Sox history. Ok back to my dissy intro...it's getting there!
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
without Ortiz ... Manny not in the lineup today ... Drew is white hot ... Ellsbury is up to 33 stolen bases on the year (I bet Tito puts him on the All Star team) ... wow ...
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
without Ortiz ... Manny not in the lineup today ... Drew is white hot ... Ellsbury is up to 33 stolen bases on the year (I bet Tito puts him on the All Star team) ... wow ...
Nice one tonight as the Sox win in a shutout.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Lots of Sox fans in Philly tonight and I saw a couple wearing PJ shirts. I guess they're getting an early start on the camden shows.
Lester looked great tonight and totally had Howard baffled and the crowd was cheering when Paps struck out the side in the 9th.
Good win for the Sox and it was crazy seeing them steal 6 bases tonight.
love it, well the part about lester. i got him in fantasy baseball.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
love it, well the part about lester. i got him in fantasy baseball.
Btw, Phils fans are weak. They fled after the 8th when Utley struck out. For the 9th the Red Sox fans were the majority and were going nuts after Paps struck out the side. That should never ever happen on the road at a first place team's stadium.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
BOSTON -- Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling announced in a radio interview on Friday morning that he will have shoulder surgery on Monday, and thus, won't have a 2008 season.
In fact, the 216-game winner -- who helped the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001 before playing a key role in title runs by the Red Sox in 2004 and 2007 -- might very well never throw another pitch.
"There's a pretty decent chance that I've thrown my last pitch, forever," Schilling told WEEI-850 AM in Boston. "I'm going in to make it not hurt anymore, which is pretty much all I care about."
However, Schilling did leave open the possibility of pitching again in 2009 or beyond if he can make a strong-enough recovery after surgery. He can be a free agent after this season.
"I don't want it to end this way, but if this is the way it has to end, I'm OK with that," said Schilling.
Schilling first experienced pain in his right shoulder and biceps area over the winter, when he was trying to start his normal throwing program. The injury was revealed about a week before Spring Training and Schilling had spent months trying to rehab the injury.
He seemed to be making progress over the past few weeks, throwing his first side session on June 3. He was able to throw from the bullpen three more times after that, culminating with a disappointing session on June 13 in which Schilling started to get an idea that he had experienced a setback.
The Red Sox and Schilling mulled over the situation for a few days before deciding the next step. Schilling was examined by Red Sox medical director Thomas Gill on Wednesday before deciding on surgery.
The Red Sox haven't commented on Schilling's condition yet, but will likely do so in the hours leading up to Friday night's game against the Mariners.
If Schilling never pitches again, his last start will wind up being Game 2 of the 2007 World Series, when he led the Red Sox to a 2-1 victory over the Rockies.
Schilling joined the Red Sox in 2004, vowing to help the club end an 86-year championship drought. He did just that, becoming a legend during that postseason by pitching with his right ankle tendon literally sutured into place. With the now famous "bloody sock," Schilling won Game 6 of the American League Championship Series against the Yankees and Game 2 of the World Series against the Cardinals.
Schilling to have shoulder surgery
Red Sox right-hander will miss season; future in doubt, too
BOSTON -- Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling announced in a radio interview on Friday morning that he will have shoulder surgery on Monday, and thus, won't have a 2008 season.
In fact, the 216-game winner -- who helped the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001 before playing a key role in title runs by the Red Sox in 2004 and 2007 -- might very well never throw another pitch.
"There's a pretty decent chance that I've thrown my last pitch, forever," Schilling told WEEI-850 AM in Boston. "I'm going in to make it not hurt anymore, which is pretty much all I care about."
However, Schilling did leave open the possibility of pitching again in 2009 or beyond if he can make a strong-enough recovery after surgery. He can be a free agent after this season.
"I don't want it to end this way, but if this is the way it has to end, I'm OK with that," said Schilling.
Schilling first experienced pain in his right shoulder and biceps area over the winter, when he was trying to start his normal throwing program. The injury was revealed about a week before Spring Training and Schilling had spent months trying to rehab the injury.
He seemed to be making progress over the past few weeks, throwing his first side session on June 3. He was able to throw from the bullpen three more times after that, culminating with a disappointing session on June 13 in which Schilling started to get an idea that he had experienced a setback.
The Red Sox and Schilling mulled over the situation for a few days before deciding the next step. Schilling was examined by Red Sox medical director Thomas Gill on Wednesday before deciding on surgery.
The Red Sox haven't commented on Schilling's condition yet, but will likely do so in the hours leading up to Friday night's game against the Mariners.
If Schilling never pitches again, his last start will wind up being Game 2 of the 2007 World Series, when he led the Red Sox to a 2-1 victory over the Rockies.
Schilling joined the Red Sox in 2004, vowing to help the club end an 86-year championship drought. He did just that, becoming a legend during that postseason by pitching with his right ankle tendon literally sutured into place. With the now famous "bloody sock," Schilling won Game 6 of the American League Championship Series against the Yankees and Game 2 of the World Series against the Cardinals.
I'm not sure whether I'm happy or sad to hear this, he has such a BIG mouth and always sharing his political views (republican that is). This might it for him then after signing a fat renewal contract.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
3 & half back and there's new competition in the East.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
It's about damn time, good & much needed win tonight.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
What I'm saying is that it is overblown as a "turnaround" game for the Red Sox when it was clearly not. Following that game the Sox would go 11-8, hardly a hot streak. From that point on however, they would only lose one series (Yankees), and split one series for the rest of the year (Orioles). The actual turnaround was when they got rid of Nomar, and then got used to each other. However, Theo Epstein on the front cover trading Nomar and a minor leaguer, for O-Cab, Mientkewicz, and D-Roberts, isn't as compelling to the Boston market as Veritek popping A-Rod in the face with a glove. Plus it doesn't make as fun a legend as the idea that the Red Sox completely turned it around when A-Rod got hit in the face by the Red Sox "tough as nails" catcher.
Against Texas, mind.
Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan are fans. The book was written for the fans. It's not a statistical analysis or an in depth look at the season. It's like saying that Bill Simmons' book should be taken seriously as an analysis of the season. The book was written for fun and many of the fans of the Red Sox believe that game was the turning point for the team.
Besides Dave Roberts was not part of the Nomar deal. It was a separate trade with the Dodgers for Henri Staley who never made the majors.
And it did change the mindset of the team. The three Yankees games before the fight - the Yankees rallied for a win in the 8th, Captain Jeets dives into the crowd to catch a foul ball in an extra inning game when Nomar tells Francona that he can't pinch hit in a big situation and the day before, Foulke blows a game and in all three Rivera had a big role. Beating Rivera that game changed the mindset for the team that hadn't beaten him in a year and a half.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
BUT for once in my life I was right. I told them O-Cab was a real nice addition at short, not to mention a forgotten clutch hitter (see: the Expos whenever Vladdy went down), and that Mientk(whatever) would help the D, but then Cabrera made a bad error in like his 2nd or 3rd game and they all called crying again. I won't take any credit for talking up Roberts, but, in Red Sox lore, he turned out to be as important, if not more so, than punching A-Rod's face.
As for the books, they are fun books, but they do play a huge part in remembering the past. I'd venture to say that Simmons and the O'Nan/King book will be read by a hell of a lot more peeps than my dissertation will be - or even the Red Sox Century Book (which is fantastic btw). So I would argue that they do "matter" to a lot of people. Again, maybe not you, but a bunch of the peeps I interviewed often sighted those as "must reads" when doing my research.
what a douche.
unrelated
oh an tampa is dead......
not sure about fat or drunk .... but Tom Yawkey was certainly one thing ... racist.
(and stupid ... see: Jackie Robinson tryout @ Fenway)
I too love the quote .... such a great movie.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
None of the suspensions took effect on that day. So, yeah ... Excuse the shit out of me for having standards.
Anyway Jimed14, I'll get you my dissy once it's passed (at least the 2 chapters on the Red Sox hopefully this fall/winter). Not that you care what I write, but I know that you have said you are a huge Howard Bryant fan, and he's prominent throughout (including a bunch of sweet interview, meaning new, stuff). SOLAT, building from someone else's post on here about being sorry for offending other people...I just want to say how much I look forward to your replies, b/c you keep me honest, and grounded in my writing. I hope you don't feel like I'm compromising your thread, b/c I really, really have a good time having a back and forth convo with you about the sawx. I guess the main thing is that you (and if you don't think I do, I do) read and respond to my posts rather than just incite (sometimes I do this after a crappy day of writing, but mostly I try to add).
Ryan, you're a good guy and I had a good time hanging out with you in Baltimore which is why I like your discussions on here. And I know you read everything and process before responding which makes for good discussions. I don't have a lot of time at work right now to reply, but I thought I'd give you a couple of quotes from a few key members of the Red Sox regarding the Varitek A-Rod fight and why I feel it's a turning point.
David Ortiz (speaking about the fight) - "I think that's the best thing that ever happened to us. It's the start of something good."
Mark Bellhorn (after the fight) - "This is what we know we are capable of doing. We've been kind of up and down all year. Hopefully, we can carry this emotion and momentum the rest of the season."
Terry Francona (after the fight) - "I hope we look back a while from now and we're saying that this brought us together . . . I hope a long time from now we look back and say this did it."
Theo Epstein (after the fight) - "It was a classic. It had more intensity than most postseason games. This win and the way it happened should prove to be very important to us down the line. It's hard to have a more meaningful regular-season victory. We've been kind of waiting to have this feeling all year."
Bill James (after the season) - "The turning point of our season was either the July 24th comeback win against the Yankees, or the trade of Nomar Garciaparra six days later."
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
I'm sure he had a hand in the Red Sox partnership with the Jimmy Fund.
I don't recall him ever being classified as cheap ... the Sox spent money on players ... so, there's that.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I'm actually going to work this into my class this fall by having my students go to a McDonald's in downtown B-more. It'll be the first time many of my white students (98% of my class) are an obvious minority in a social situation, and I want them to come up with a plan to try to get more "white" people to go to that particular McDonald's. Like would they have a "Caucasian Day" similar to the way MLB teams do Latino or Ladies Nights? Would they be more compelled to go to that McDonald's if they ran a night like that? Maybe then they'd have to see that a welcoming atmosphere is more critical than any lip service paid through gender/sexuality/ethnic specific "days". The Red Sox are working on this, but still it's clearly not there yet.
P.S. Yawkey went back and forth between free wheeling and cheap. From 33-49 he spent, then when they lost to the Yankees, he withdrew and wanted to maybe even move the Sox until 1967. Then he and his wife spent again, but, by then the atmosphere was set (except 67-78) that Boston was a white place to play. Black players even had it in their contract that they could not be traded to the Sox. Mo Vaughn changed that a little, but my guess is that Pedro Martinez will prove to be the most important player in recent Red Sox history. Ok back to my dissy intro...it's getting there!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
without Ortiz ... Manny not in the lineup today ... Drew is white hot ... Ellsbury is up to 33 stolen bases on the year (I bet Tito puts him on the All Star team) ... wow ...
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Nice one tonight as the Sox win in a shutout.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Lester looked great tonight and totally had Howard baffled and the crowd was cheering when Paps struck out the side in the 9th.
Good win for the Sox and it was crazy seeing them steal 6 bases tonight.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
love it, well the part about lester. i got him in fantasy baseball.
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Btw, Phils fans are weak. They fled after the 8th when Utley struck out. For the 9th the Red Sox fans were the majority and were going nuts after Paps struck out the side. That should never ever happen on the road at a first place team's stadium.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
In fact, the 216-game winner -- who helped the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001 before playing a key role in title runs by the Red Sox in 2004 and 2007 -- might very well never throw another pitch.
"There's a pretty decent chance that I've thrown my last pitch, forever," Schilling told WEEI-850 AM in Boston. "I'm going in to make it not hurt anymore, which is pretty much all I care about."
However, Schilling did leave open the possibility of pitching again in 2009 or beyond if he can make a strong-enough recovery after surgery. He can be a free agent after this season.
"I don't want it to end this way, but if this is the way it has to end, I'm OK with that," said Schilling.
Schilling first experienced pain in his right shoulder and biceps area over the winter, when he was trying to start his normal throwing program. The injury was revealed about a week before Spring Training and Schilling had spent months trying to rehab the injury.
He seemed to be making progress over the past few weeks, throwing his first side session on June 3. He was able to throw from the bullpen three more times after that, culminating with a disappointing session on June 13 in which Schilling started to get an idea that he had experienced a setback.
The Red Sox and Schilling mulled over the situation for a few days before deciding the next step. Schilling was examined by Red Sox medical director Thomas Gill on Wednesday before deciding on surgery.
The Red Sox haven't commented on Schilling's condition yet, but will likely do so in the hours leading up to Friday night's game against the Mariners.
If Schilling never pitches again, his last start will wind up being Game 2 of the 2007 World Series, when he led the Red Sox to a 2-1 victory over the Rockies.
Schilling joined the Red Sox in 2004, vowing to help the club end an 86-year championship drought. He did just that, becoming a legend during that postseason by pitching with his right ankle tendon literally sutured into place. With the now famous "bloody sock," Schilling won Game 6 of the American League Championship Series against the Yankees and Game 2 of the World Series against the Cardinals.
Sad to see the Schill go out like this!!
Red Sox right-hander will miss season; future in doubt, too
BOSTON -- Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling announced in a radio interview on Friday morning that he will have shoulder surgery on Monday, and thus, won't have a 2008 season.
In fact, the 216-game winner -- who helped the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001 before playing a key role in title runs by the Red Sox in 2004 and 2007 -- might very well never throw another pitch.
"There's a pretty decent chance that I've thrown my last pitch, forever," Schilling told WEEI-850 AM in Boston. "I'm going in to make it not hurt anymore, which is pretty much all I care about."
However, Schilling did leave open the possibility of pitching again in 2009 or beyond if he can make a strong-enough recovery after surgery. He can be a free agent after this season.
"I don't want it to end this way, but if this is the way it has to end, I'm OK with that," said Schilling.
Schilling first experienced pain in his right shoulder and biceps area over the winter, when he was trying to start his normal throwing program. The injury was revealed about a week before Spring Training and Schilling had spent months trying to rehab the injury.
He seemed to be making progress over the past few weeks, throwing his first side session on June 3. He was able to throw from the bullpen three more times after that, culminating with a disappointing session on June 13 in which Schilling started to get an idea that he had experienced a setback.
The Red Sox and Schilling mulled over the situation for a few days before deciding the next step. Schilling was examined by Red Sox medical director Thomas Gill on Wednesday before deciding on surgery.
The Red Sox haven't commented on Schilling's condition yet, but will likely do so in the hours leading up to Friday night's game against the Mariners.
If Schilling never pitches again, his last start will wind up being Game 2 of the 2007 World Series, when he led the Red Sox to a 2-1 victory over the Rockies.
Schilling joined the Red Sox in 2004, vowing to help the club end an 86-year championship drought. He did just that, becoming a legend during that postseason by pitching with his right ankle tendon literally sutured into place. With the now famous "bloody sock," Schilling won Game 6 of the American League Championship Series against the Yankees and Game 2 of the World Series against the Cardinals.
Sad to see the Schill go out like this!!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
/ducks!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)