I believe it was Cate who said, perhaps jokingly, that the problem was men thinking that breasts should only serve one purpose, and that's their enjoyment. I believe you said that hits the nail on the head or something like that.
I thought negative generalisations about gender was not okay. I thought it was one of those things feminists fought. I guess it's okay when you do it about men, though.
I have made not a single negative generalization about men. Agreeing that it is a problem that some people (not all men) view the primary function of women's breasts as being for the sexual gratification of men is in no way sexist, negative, or a generalization.
I read several articles about this protest, not just the one on this site and I remember one article mentioning the fathers that joined their wives in their protest. No one mentioned them here, you (generic) were to busy blaming and vilifying men for turning breasts into sex objects and being so weak that they cannot accept that breasts are meant to provide nutrition to children.
This sounds like a conversation you must have been having with someone else. I haven't said anything to you or even read most of your posts in this thread. Maybe you should leave me out of it.
Nope. I pointed out that what was deemed sexist then is completely ignored in this thread, it's tolerated and it's considered funny. The only difference with that bitch thread is that this time it's men being vilified and insulted... accusations specifically linked to gender, nonetheless!
To me, it's cool. I don't care. My stance hasn't changed since that thread... but it appears you are rather lenient in your judgement, or maybe you judge with a double standard?
Dude, get over it. And don't accuse me of anything. I haven't even read this whole thread. Here's the argument you're making:
1. Long, long ago, in a thread far, far away, scb disagreed with Collin. scb said the word "bitch" is sexist and Collin said it isn't.
2. Some other people made some posts in another, much later, thread. Collin thought these posts were sexist against men. scb, who didn't even read these posts, didn't jump to the defense of men everywhere and call out the posters for being sexist.
3. Therefore, scb judges with a double-standard.
That argument doesn't fly and you know it.
Once again, if you want to continue our previous discussion about sexism, start another thread. But don't try to make this thread about a problem you had with me in the past.
Care to elucidate? I basically agree with all the women here about breastfeeding. We might not agree about why it's okay... but that's details, imo. The important part is that it should be allow and no big deal. It must be hard for you to acknowledge the fact that I'm your side on this issue... At least, on the side of the women who support breastfeeding. I believe in a little discretion.
So, what is it that I don't know a fuck about?
Don't tell me what it's hard for me to acknowledge. Once again, I wasn't even talking to you. Stop trying to pick a fight.
Yes, I would care to elucidate, but I won't because I don't want to get this thread locked.
This sounds like a conversation you must have been having with someone else. I haven't said anything to you or even read most of your posts in this thread. Maybe you should leave me out of it.
Well, if you didn't even read my post perhaps you shouldn't be telling me what I know and what I don't know.
Dude, get over it. And don't accuse me of anything. I haven't even read this whole thread. Here's the argument you're making
If you had read the thread you would have noticed a trend of male-bashing going on and perhaps you wouldn't have agreed with that statement that said men (not some men) see breasts as something soley for their sexual pleasure. Read the thread and you'll see plenty of negative comments towards men in general, like the one you agreed with.
But don't try to make this thread about a problem you had with me in the past.
I never had a problem with you in the past.
Don't tell me what it's hard for me to acknowledge. Once again, I wasn't even talking to you. Stop trying to pick a fight.
Then don't tell me what I know and what I don't know. You quoted me and said I obviously didn’t know what the fuck I was talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
So if you didn't read my posts, which you had a hard time not replying to :rolleyes:, don't fucking tell me what I know and what I don't know.
Stop trying to pick a fight.
I'm done with this. I never had a problem with you, still don't have but you seem to have formed your opinion of me in the last thread. It becomes apparent in this thread. Your hypocrisy has been exposed and you cannot even admit that the shit spouted here about men was according to your standards sexist.
edit: I guess I shouldn't have assumed you read the thread. I just read so many thing about men here that I know had these statements been about women, anyone saying would be called a sexist. Despite smiley faces etc. Especially by you, since you seemed to feel so strongly about it in the other thread. Some of the posters in that other thread agree with you and yet bash men here... I found that odd and hypocritical.
Well, if you didn't even read my post perhaps you shouldn't be telling me what I know and what I don't know.
If you had read the thread you would have noticed a trend of male-bashing going on and perhaps you wouldn't have agreed with that statement that said men (not some men) see breasts as something soley for their sexual pleasure. Read the thread and you'll see plenty of negative comments towards men in general, like the one you agreed with.
I never had a problem with you in the past.
Then don't tell me what I know and what I don't know. You quoted me and said I obviously didn’t know what the fuck I was talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
So if you didn't read my posts, which you had a hard time not replying to :rolleyes:, don't fucking tell me what I know and what I don't know.
Stop trying to pick a fight.
I'm done with this. I never had a problem with you, still don't have but you seem to have formed your opinion of me in the last thread. It becomes apparent in this thread. Your hypocrisy has been exposed and you cannot even admit that the shit spouted here about men was according to your standards sexist.
Haha! My hypocrisy has been exposed? That's actually funny. It kinda makes me feel like I'm in a game of Clue or something.
edit: I guess I shouldn't have assumed you read the thread. I just read so many thing about men here that I know had these statements been about women, anyone saying would be called a sexist. Despite smiley faces etc. Especially by you, since you seemed to feel so strongly about it in the other thread. Some of the posters in that other thread agree with you and yet bash men here... I found that odd and hypocritical.
Thanks. I do feel strongly about sexism. But you seem to have a problem with some other people, not me. Please take it up with them and leave me out of it. I guess I just don't appreciate someone saying I don't give a fuck about other people. Go figure...
Thanks. I do feel strongly about sexism. But you seem to have a problem with some other people, not me. Please take it up with them and leave me out of it. I guess I just don't appreciate someone saying I don't give a fuck about other people. Go figure...
Well, most people here, men and women, have said that a little discretion is the key.
You said there was no room for compromise. Some people are uncomfortable with breastfeeding. This is fairly normal, I think. There could be plenty of reasons why they are uncomfortable. I am uncomfortable with it because I consider it to be a private matter between the mother and her child. I avert my eyes and walk on in order not to invade their privacy.
If a woman is in a crowded store I don't think it's wrong to tell her there are changing rooms available if she wants to use them (this is not what happened in this case, though, I'm aware of that). She shouldn't be forced to use them. But what's wrong with informing a mother that there are more private places, quieter places than the middle of the store. (someone objected to this, I forgot who)
Anyway, plenty of people seem to be slightly uncomfortable with it, so is a little discretion really so much to ask? Apparently not, because most women argee that a little discretion is the key.
You on the other hand said there was no room for compromise (compromise being discretion). And that's what bothered me. I gladly avert my eyes because I feel it's the respectful thing to do and when someone then says, they on their part are not willing to do anything to feed their child discretely, I feel it's a bit respectless. I probably shouldn't have said you don't give a fuck about other people, so I'm sorry about that. But I can't say I understand your stance.
Right now, I'm tired. All I needed to say has been said, mostly in post #303. I'd like to add that bringing up Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is definitely not necessary and I certainly don't see the connexion. It is legal to breastfeed and most people don't have a problem with it. It's a few people who do. Forty years after MLK's death black people are still not treated equally and racism is still very much alive. I cannot believe someone would actually compare the fight the civil rights movement had to fight with this issue.
I'm okay with fighting for your rights to breastfeed... but saying this is the same fight MLK fought is absurd.
Well, most people here, men and women, have said that a little discretion is the key.
You said there was no room for compromise. Some people are uncomfortable with breastfeeding. This is fairly normal, I think. There could be plenty of reasons why they are uncomfortable. I am uncomfortable with it because I consider it to be a private matter between the mother and her child. I avert my eyes and walk on in order not to invade their privacy.
If a woman is in a crowded store I don't think it's wrong to tell her there are changing rooms available if she wants to use them (this is not what happened in this case, though, I'm aware of that). She shouldn't be forced to use them. But what's wrong with informing a mother that there are more private places, quieter places than the middle of the store. (someone objected to this, I forgot who)
Anyway, plenty of people seem to be slightly uncomfortable with it, so is a little discretion really so much to ask? Apparently not, because most women argee that a little discretion is the key.
You on the other hand said there was no room for compromise (compromise being discretion). And that's what bothered me. I gladly avert my eyes because I feel it's the respectful thing to do and when someone then says, they on their part are not willing to do anything to feed their child discretely, I feel it's a bit respectless. I probably shouldn't have said you don't give a fuck about other people, so I'm sorry about that. But I can't say I understand your stance.
Right now, I'm tired. All I needed to say has been said, mostly in post #303. I'd like to add that bringing up Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is definitely not necessary and I certainly don't see the connexion. It is legal to breastfeed and most people don't have a problem with it. It's a few people who do. Forty years after MLK's death black people are still not treated equally and racism is still very much alive. I cannot believe someone would actually compare the fight the civil rights movement had to fight with this issue.
I'm okay with fighting for your rights to breastfeed... but saying this is the same fight MLK fought is absurd.
Well, I'm off to bed.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Sweet dreams.
I do agree that most women are discreet when they breast feed but for the purpose of this particular thread, I still don’t agree that this woman absolutely HAD to feed her baby that very second in the middle of H&M. Just to pick up on your point, no I wouldn’t eat my lunch in a toilet, but similarly I wouldn’t eat my lunch in the middle of H&M either. I would do what the majority of people would do and go outside and find a slightly less busy and more appropriate place to eat. I can’t imagine somewhere as busy and chaotic as a shop would be a pleasant atmosphere for a baby to feed anyway, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.”
Well, without knowing the geography around the store, or even knowing what one of these H&M stores looks like, I can’t really comment on whether or not this woman could have gone somewhere else. Perhaps she was trying to find a discrete place to feed, ie: inside the store, so that she wouldn’t have to feed on a crowded street? The point was that she was refused, which sparked the debate about a woman’s right to feed wherever she wants and brings about the discussion of just why is anyone uncomfortable with it in the first place.
“I’m not sure it’s necessarily a case of over ‘sexualisation’ that reduced the amount of women breast feeding, I’m no historian so I couldn’t answer that one, but I think there would also be a case to argue that as women’s rights were brought to the fore front and more and more women went out to work, more solutions to the baby feeding situation were created. Certainly breasts did become more ‘sexualised’, although rather ironically the current ‘ideal’ body type for a female is super skinny with barely any breasts.”
You’re right, there were many factors involved in the over sexualization of women’s breasts. Rather than the sexualization being the reason women stopped breastfeeding, the fact that breastfeeding became so unacceptable caused some of the overt sexualization of them, and played a role in the shame that surrounded the exposure of them.
“Sorry but from everything I’ve read the breast is predominantly made up of fat and blood vessels, there are plenty of diagrams and articles to support that, just do a google search (I’ll do it for you if you can’t be bothered!). This is further supported by the fact that when women gain or lose weight the breasts get larger or smaller.”
Ok, I dunno what you’ve read, but I am gonna type out some stuff verbatim from my midwives textbook. “Anatomy and physiology of the breast. The breasts are compound secreting glands composed of mainly glandular tissue, which is arranged in lobes, approximately 20 in number. (Fig 40.1) Each lobe is divided into lobules that consist of alveoli and ducts. The alveoli contain acini cells, which produce milk and are surrounded by myoepithelial cells, which contract and propel the milk out. (Fig 40.2) Small lactiferous ducts, carrying milk from the alveoli, unite to form larger ducts. Several large lactiferous ducts (tubules) conveying milk from one or more lobe emerge on the surface of the nipple. The lactiferous ducts are distensible. Myoepithelial cells are oriented longitudinally along the ducts, and, under the influence of Oxytocin, these smooth muscle cells contract and the tubule becomes shorter and wider.”
“The nipple, composed of erectile tissue, is covered with epithelium and contains plain muscle fibers, which have a sphincter-like action in controlling the flow of milk. Surrounding the nipple is the areola, which contain Montgomery glands. These produce a sebum like substance, which acts as a lubricant during pregnancy and throughout breastfeeding.”
“The breast is supplied with blood from the internal and external mammary arteries, and branches from the intercostal arteries. The veins are arranged in a circular fashion around the nipple. Lymph drains freely between the two breasts and into lymph nodes in the axillae and mediastium.” Myles Textbook for Midwives, 14th Ed 2003. D Fraser, M Cooper. Churchill Livingston.
Since I can’t paste pictures from my textbooks, google it is.
Here’s a link to some diagrams of the breast: http://www.ayurvediccure.com/breast_composition.htm
As I stated, this is the composition of a woman of average weight. Of course adipose tissue increases when a woman’s weight does, or decreases when she loses weight. Adipose tissue is increased and decreased all over the body though with weight fluctuation.
Not sure if your comments about doing the research if I can be bothered was meant to be a derogatory one or not, but believe me, I have done the research. It makes up a large part of my profession, and I have also breast fed four children so I feel somewhat qualified to speak about this.
“That’s just a theory, curiously I found this argument was mostly perpetuated on pro-breast feeding/ attachment parenting sites. Biologists have suggested quite the opposite, that larger breasts can often smother the child – and nobody said a ‘completely flat chest’ obviously there would be a small amount of protrusion due to the mammary glands and supporting structures. Here’s a brief article I just found which gives you the gist of the argument. http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0067.htm
”
I haven’t based my theories on any online websites. In fact I’ve never even looked at a website like that. At any rate, why is it an issue that websites like this promote that theory? For the most part, the size of the human breast has baffled scientists and there are lots of theories about it. Another is that the breast evolved in that way to accommodate the flat faced aspect of human babies. In comparison to other mammals, human babies have quite a recessed jaw and having a breast that protrudes outward facilitates feeding. Biologists may have hypothesized that large breasts can suffocate the child, but when in fact the research was done it proved the hypothesis incorrect and found it was an extremely rare event, and usually accompanied by other factors such as alcohol and drug abuse. I actually remember a few years ago reading about a woman who’s baby had suffocated at the breast, but she was still heavily under the influence of a general anesthetic for a c-section. The baby had been attached to the breast with assistance from staff and once it was on, they left the room. Very sad indeed.
Certainly the breasts have a role in sexual attraction, and there are theories about this as well, but it is not their primary purpose, which was my original point.
its not about being disgusted if they breastfed their child, but more on the lines of is there a better place to do it than amongst the clothes in the store. Will taking a moment cause irreparable damage to the child if they don't get fed that second?
I'm not disgusted by a woman breastfeeding her kid , I just look away. As long as it isn't me with a baby, I could really care less..
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
I didnt have time to go through all the posts, but as soon as "we" stop thinking woman's breasts are "dirty sexy funbags of love" the better off we will all be!
I absolutely understand the need to give a child food when it's needed, but I really can not stand some of the women groups you see on tv defending their right to breast feed, they totally creep me out (I'm talking about the attachment parenting types). I also see nothing wrong with being subtle in these situations and of course women can put breast milk in bottles. Have these women never heard of planning?! It's like, 'shit I'm in H&M buying some crap and my child all of a sudden needs feeding' - do you not know your baby's schedule?!
this is my issue with it- the planning thing. Sure, I think people should have the right to do it if they need to, but people feed their babies on a schedule. It seems like you'd want to AVOID having to do it while shopping or something. If I were doing it, I'd think I'd view it as a more private thing, but I guess that's me.
The one issue I did have a problem with was the woman who was taking the medical boards and wanted to have her test time extended so she could pump breast milk. I do have a big problem with that. She knew she was having a baby, she knew she was talking the medical boards, so could have waited to take the boards or waited to have a baby if it was planned. I don't think she won her case, which is good. I don't think that would have been fair to the other test takers who planned their lives more accordingly, or made sacrifices, or to people who had health concerns that may have needed extended breaks.
I didnt have time to go through all the posts, but as soon as "we" stop thinking woman's breasts are "dirty sexy funbags of love" the better off we will all be!
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Frantically screaming babies (you know...the hungry ones...) are something else all kinds of people freak out about.
Can't that mother do "something??"
Uhm...Yeah... But...well she needs to find someplace that people find "more acceptable."
Would a Food Court be appropriate? A place where everyone else is eating?
And while this mom who is probably running on minimal sleep and is tired and worn -the -f out like many moms are... listens to her baby scream and gets dirty looks from people because of it...her frustration tolerance runs low as the baby grows more and more hungry, irritable and difficult to console. Not the best combo!!!
Hungry babies need to eat. Simple as that. They are BABIES!
Seems like a lot of people expect a lot from others.
I take it you can't give an example of posts that say "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male" because there aren't such posts in this thread.
Read Animal's posts and don't be snide with me just because I have the audacity to go to bed at 2.30am with no further desire to spoon feed you because you're having a comprehension problem and want to turn the whole thing into a rant against feminism. If it's good enough for you to give up at bedtime it's good enough for me.
This is a clear example of what bothers me. Talk about a double standard, indeed. Men have been vilified in this very thread and none of the feminists who are so concerned with sexism have said a word about it, instead they inforced it and tried to justify it. You can make generalization about men, call them all pigs, weak, unable to see breasts as anything other than something sexual... It's all tolerated. It's this hypocrisy that bothers me. It especially bothers me because this hateful language was deemed hateful and sexist by them, not me. I said there was nothing sexist about the word bitch (only in an explicit sexist context) and everyone was against me. Now, men are called pigs, weak... and it's all justified, all the ladies share a few laughs, add a few smileys... And it's not sexist. I remember that the word 'bitch' was sexist in about any possible context whatsoever... I guess there really is a double standard, eh?
WHAT FEMINISTS????????????? There are men and there are women in this thread. YOU are the one that keeps harping on about feminists and has decided that men are being hard done by. You seem to be the only one. Both cutback and rock on haven't been protesting the rampant mysandry that you seem to have decided is going on. Perhaps it's that problem you have with humour again or maybe you have a whole other agenda. It's looking that way to me. Or maybe it's that they understood humour when they saw it and didn't take comments made personally?
I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about with the rubbish about the word bitch but if it's a previous thread I wasn't in it.
At no point did I call men pigs.
I never ever in this entire thread or in my entire life said that women should be forced to cover their breast or feed their children discretely. Never.
Who said you did? But you seem to think that mutual respect involves a blanket for some women.
I talked about mutual respect. I hope that woman can take other people's feelings into consideration when they breastfeed, and like I have said quite a few times in this thread, it seems many women do. If you don't, I certainly won't complain and I certainly won't do anything about it. I don't give a damn. You can walk around naked, breastfeed your baby next to me... I don't care, I'll look away. I even think most women wouldn't like it if I started staring.
WHY should women take anybody else's feelings into consideration when they're breastfeeding? As far as I can see there is no onus on them to do so. Their primary concern should always be the nourishment and nurture of their child.
Nobody said you would complain, at no point did I question your behaviour with regard to coming across a breastfeeding woman OTHER than to point out that I don't think breast feeding women need to be considering anybody else other than themselves and their child.
But it appears it's only the feminists such as scb who don't give a fuck about other people. This is a war against women and should be fought. There's no room for compromise (the little discretion most people, men and women, seem to agree on). But hey, it's your every right.
I'm not really understanding why you've dragged scb into this and labelled her a feminist (like it's a bad thing :rolleyes:) and clearly misrepresented her level of compassion for others except perhaps you were frustrated that you weren't going to be able to continue misconstruing what I was saying, calling me stupid and generally sprouting off at me because I had gone to bed.
If you think society encourages flashing your tits in public, go into a H&M topless. Society doesn't encourage that at all. Remember nipple gate? :rolleyes: It was a freakin' national scandal in the US.
Is this not the country that invented Hooters? The country with one of the biggest adult film industries in the world? The same country that invented Girls Gone Wild and a plethora of other opportunities for women to be seen naked in public? This is the crux of the argument right here Collin. America most certainly does love the booby and are quite happy to see it, WHEN they think it's appropriate, which is fine by me. Just don't try to tell me that these other examples are acceptable if inadvertant boobage during breast feeding is not. THAT right there is the issue as far as I'm concerned.
And in case you were wondering, Jeanie, I haven't formed any negative opinions about you. But if I'm perfectly honest I'm disappointed that you have judged me so quickly.
Well I was pretty disappointed in some of the negative comments you made judging me Collin so I guess we're even.
If you read my posts, you'll see that I never uttered a negative word about breastfeeding, never said there should be rules about when or where it is approriate and under what conditions. What I did do, however, was disagree with some of the arguments made for why breastfeeding should be allowed.
No and I never said you did, but you keep coming back to your interpretation of discretion and as far as I can see I don't agree with you on that and I don't see any reason why I can't say I don't agree.
So, I'm done with this thread and quite frankly I'm disappointed in a lot of posters of whom I always considered to be respectful, polite and reasonable
Yeah, I can understand that. I'm pretty disappointed in some of the stuff that you've levelled at me in this thread thus far and find a lot of what you've levelled at me a far cry from your usual behaviour.
this is my issue with it- the planning thing. Sure, I think people should have the right to do it if they need to, but people feed their babies on a schedule. It seems like you'd want to AVOID having to do it while shopping or something. If I were doing it, I'd think I'd view it as a more private thing, but I guess that's me.
Oh no. Not this schedule thing.
Do you ever get a hunger pang at 10 am when you have already eaten breakfast??
Babies bellies hold very little and they are growing like crazy.
Their little brains are growing... Their skulls are hardening... They are growing in LEAPS and BOUNDS... and their immune systems are developing... hell their entire infrastructure is growing and developing daily!!!
SCHEDULES???
OMG. People crack me up. Let me guess. You have no kids.
Comments
scb wrote "you're a young man" in the post iluvcats quoted.
naděje umírá poslední
i might just bust mine out on the way to the coffee shop just cuz
I have made not a single negative generalization about men. Agreeing that it is a problem that some people (not all men) view the primary function of women's breasts as being for the sexual gratification of men is in no way sexist, negative, or a generalization.
This sounds like a conversation you must have been having with someone else. I haven't said anything to you or even read most of your posts in this thread. Maybe you should leave me out of it.
Dude, get over it. And don't accuse me of anything. I haven't even read this whole thread. Here's the argument you're making:
1. Long, long ago, in a thread far, far away, scb disagreed with Collin. scb said the word "bitch" is sexist and Collin said it isn't.
2. Some other people made some posts in another, much later, thread. Collin thought these posts were sexist against men. scb, who didn't even read these posts, didn't jump to the defense of men everywhere and call out the posters for being sexist.
3. Therefore, scb judges with a double-standard.
That argument doesn't fly and you know it.
Once again, if you want to continue our previous discussion about sexism, start another thread. But don't try to make this thread about a problem you had with me in the past.
Don't tell me what it's hard for me to acknowledge. Once again, I wasn't even talking to you. Stop trying to pick a fight.
Yes, I would care to elucidate, but I won't because I don't want to get this thread locked.
Now can we please get back on topic? :rolleyes:
I said he was a man.
Haha! Look - we agree on something!
Well, if you didn't even read my post perhaps you shouldn't be telling me what I know and what I don't know.
If you had read the thread you would have noticed a trend of male-bashing going on and perhaps you wouldn't have agreed with that statement that said men (not some men) see breasts as something soley for their sexual pleasure. Read the thread and you'll see plenty of negative comments towards men in general, like the one you agreed with.
I never had a problem with you in the past.
Then don't tell me what I know and what I don't know. You quoted me and said I obviously didn’t know what the fuck I was talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
So if you didn't read my posts, which you had a hard time not replying to :rolleyes:, don't fucking tell me what I know and what I don't know.
Stop trying to pick a fight.
I'm done with this. I never had a problem with you, still don't have but you seem to have formed your opinion of me in the last thread. It becomes apparent in this thread. Your hypocrisy has been exposed and you cannot even admit that the shit spouted here about men was according to your standards sexist.
edit: I guess I shouldn't have assumed you read the thread. I just read so many thing about men here that I know had these statements been about women, anyone saying would be called a sexist. Despite smiley faces etc. Especially by you, since you seemed to feel so strongly about it in the other thread. Some of the posters in that other thread agree with you and yet bash men here... I found that odd and hypocritical.
naděje umírá poslední
(well that and the fact that we both consider breastfeeding to be normal, not offensive and perfectly acceptable... but that's just a minor detail)
naděje umírá poslední
Haha! My hypocrisy has been exposed? That's actually funny. It kinda makes me feel like I'm in a game of Clue or something.
I obviously missed that
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
sorry, I missed that
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Thanks. I do feel strongly about sexism. But you seem to have a problem with some other people, not me. Please take it up with them and leave me out of it. I guess I just don't appreciate someone saying I don't give a fuck about other people. Go figure...
Well, most people here, men and women, have said that a little discretion is the key.
You said there was no room for compromise. Some people are uncomfortable with breastfeeding. This is fairly normal, I think. There could be plenty of reasons why they are uncomfortable. I am uncomfortable with it because I consider it to be a private matter between the mother and her child. I avert my eyes and walk on in order not to invade their privacy.
If a woman is in a crowded store I don't think it's wrong to tell her there are changing rooms available if she wants to use them (this is not what happened in this case, though, I'm aware of that). She shouldn't be forced to use them. But what's wrong with informing a mother that there are more private places, quieter places than the middle of the store. (someone objected to this, I forgot who)
Anyway, plenty of people seem to be slightly uncomfortable with it, so is a little discretion really so much to ask? Apparently not, because most women argee that a little discretion is the key.
You on the other hand said there was no room for compromise (compromise being discretion). And that's what bothered me. I gladly avert my eyes because I feel it's the respectful thing to do and when someone then says, they on their part are not willing to do anything to feed their child discretely, I feel it's a bit respectless. I probably shouldn't have said you don't give a fuck about other people, so I'm sorry about that. But I can't say I understand your stance.
Right now, I'm tired. All I needed to say has been said, mostly in post #303. I'd like to add that bringing up Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is definitely not necessary and I certainly don't see the connexion. It is legal to breastfeed and most people don't have a problem with it. It's a few people who do. Forty years after MLK's death black people are still not treated equally and racism is still very much alive. I cannot believe someone would actually compare the fight the civil rights movement had to fight with this issue.
I'm okay with fighting for your rights to breastfeed... but saying this is the same fight MLK fought is absurd.
Well, I'm off to bed.
naděje umírá poslední
No problem!
naděje umírá poslední
I prefer BLUE footed ones! got any to share?
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Sweet dreams.
I think there is a Seinfeld episode about this... excellent.
I get very uncomfortable when my sister breast feeds. Does this mean that I hate women and/or am sexist?
I used more discretion when I was breastfeeding in public than I do when i get dressed to go "out on the town."
I have been known to occasionally (OK... frequently
Way more tittie than I ever really showed when I was breast feeding.
Glad the people in H& M don't ask me to cover-up.
That would be in another thread...such as Southwest Airlinegate.
This thread really blows my mind.
To some ADULT people... Their odd hang-ups are more important than hungry babies getting fed in a timely and efficient manner.
HOLY SHIT what kind of society do we actually live in???
“ ”
I haven’t based my theories on any online websites. In fact I’ve never even looked at a website like that. At any rate, why is it an issue that websites like this promote that theory? For the most part, the size of the human breast has baffled scientists and there are lots of theories about it. Another is that the breast evolved in that way to accommodate the flat faced aspect of human babies. In comparison to other mammals, human babies have quite a recessed jaw and having a breast that protrudes outward facilitates feeding. Biologists may have hypothesized that large breasts can suffocate the child, but when in fact the research was done it proved the hypothesis incorrect and found it was an extremely rare event, and usually accompanied by other factors such as alcohol and drug abuse. I actually remember a few years ago reading about a woman who’s baby had suffocated at the breast, but she was still heavily under the influence of a general anesthetic for a c-section. The baby had been attached to the breast with assistance from staff and once it was on, they left the room. Very sad indeed.
Certainly the breasts have a role in sexual attraction, and there are theories about this as well, but it is not their primary purpose, which was my original point.
I'm not disgusted by a woman breastfeeding her kid , I just look away. As long as it isn't me with a baby, I could really care less..
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
this is my issue with it- the planning thing. Sure, I think people should have the right to do it if they need to, but people feed their babies on a schedule. It seems like you'd want to AVOID having to do it while shopping or something. If I were doing it, I'd think I'd view it as a more private thing, but I guess that's me.
The one issue I did have a problem with was the woman who was taking the medical boards and wanted to have her test time extended so she could pump breast milk. I do have a big problem with that. She knew she was having a baby, she knew she was talking the medical boards, so could have waited to take the boards or waited to have a baby if it was planned. I don't think she won her case, which is good. I don't think that would have been fair to the other test takers who planned their lives more accordingly, or made sacrifices, or to people who had health concerns that may have needed extended breaks.
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Frantically screaming babies (you know...the hungry ones...) are something else all kinds of people freak out about.
Can't that mother do "something??"
Uhm...Yeah... But...well she needs to find someplace that people find "more acceptable."
Would a Food Court be appropriate? A place where everyone else is eating?
And while this mom who is probably running on minimal sleep and is tired and worn -the -f out like many moms are... listens to her baby scream and gets dirty looks from people because of it...her frustration tolerance runs low as the baby grows more and more hungry, irritable and difficult to console. Not the best combo!!!
Hungry babies need to eat. Simple as that. They are BABIES!
Seems like a lot of people expect a lot from others.
Read Animal's posts and don't be snide with me just because I have the audacity to go to bed at 2.30am with no further desire to spoon feed you because you're having a comprehension problem and want to turn the whole thing into a rant against feminism. If it's good enough for you to give up at bedtime it's good enough for me.
WHAT FEMINISTS????????????? There are men and there are women in this thread. YOU are the one that keeps harping on about feminists and has decided that men are being hard done by. You seem to be the only one. Both cutback and rock on haven't been protesting the rampant mysandry that you seem to have decided is going on. Perhaps it's that problem you have with humour again or maybe you have a whole other agenda. It's looking that way to me. Or maybe it's that they understood humour when they saw it and didn't take comments made personally?
I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about with the rubbish about the word bitch but if it's a previous thread I wasn't in it.
At no point did I call men pigs.
Who said you did? But you seem to think that mutual respect involves a blanket for some women.
WHY should women take anybody else's feelings into consideration when they're breastfeeding? As far as I can see there is no onus on them to do so. Their primary concern should always be the nourishment and nurture of their child.
Nobody said you would complain, at no point did I question your behaviour with regard to coming across a breastfeeding woman OTHER than to point out that I don't think breast feeding women need to be considering anybody else other than themselves and their child.
I'm not really understanding why you've dragged scb into this and labelled her a feminist (like it's a bad thing :rolleyes:) and clearly misrepresented her level of compassion for others except perhaps you were frustrated that you weren't going to be able to continue misconstruing what I was saying, calling me stupid and generally sprouting off at me because I had gone to bed.
Is this not the country that invented Hooters? The country with one of the biggest adult film industries in the world? The same country that invented Girls Gone Wild and a plethora of other opportunities for women to be seen naked in public? This is the crux of the argument right here Collin. America most certainly does love the booby and are quite happy to see it, WHEN they think it's appropriate, which is fine by me. Just don't try to tell me that these other examples are acceptable if inadvertant boobage during breast feeding is not. THAT right there is the issue as far as I'm concerned.
Well I was pretty disappointed in some of the negative comments you made judging me Collin so I guess we're even.
No and I never said you did, but you keep coming back to your interpretation of discretion and as far as I can see I don't agree with you on that and I don't see any reason why I can't say I don't agree.
Yeah, I can understand that. I'm pretty disappointed in some of the stuff that you've levelled at me in this thread thus far and find a lot of what you've levelled at me a far cry from your usual behaviour.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
~D.K.S.
Thanks I try... OMG here goes Collin again..... hehehe...
Oh no. Not this schedule thing.
Do you ever get a hunger pang at 10 am when you have already eaten breakfast??
Babies bellies hold very little and they are growing like crazy.
Their little brains are growing... Their skulls are hardening... They are growing in LEAPS and BOUNDS... and their immune systems are developing... hell their entire infrastructure is growing and developing daily!!!
SCHEDULES???
OMG. People crack me up. Let me guess. You have no kids.