When you say "convenient and comfortable for the mother"- what does that mean?
Isn't that what this whole thread is about? The convenience of breastfeeding when you want regardless of the place, and the people around you.
yes it is.
but what you find convenient and what a nursing mother find convenient may well be two different things. and when i say convenient and comfortable for the mother i mean exactly what it says. if she is comfortable with where she feeding and its convenient to feed the baby, then thats it. and i mean comfortable in her disposition and the situation as well as a nice comfy chair or whatever. but definately not a cramped dressing room.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm just saying that you don't have the right to never see anything you don't want to see. No right here has ever been established on your part. The rights of breastfeeding women have been established.
There are plenty of things people may not want to see. Some people don't ever want to see men with long hair, or ugly people, or tattoos, or people with disabilities. Do they have a right to not see these things? Nope. And you don't have a right to not see a woman breastfeed.
I'm just saying that you don't have the right to never see anything you don't want to see. No right here has ever been established on your part. The rights of breastfeeding women have been established.
There are plenty of things people may not want to see. Some people don't ever want to see men with long hair, or ugly people, or tattoos, or people with disabilities. Do they have a right to not see these things? Nope. And you don't have a right to not see a woman breastfeed.
You are correct. The rights of breastfeeding women have been established.
You are correct. The rights of breastfeeding women have been established.
And there is no such right to not see breastfeeding women.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want to avoid seeing a woman breastfeed. Breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural, sacred, life-sustaining event. Some cultures respect and honor it. Why doesn't ours?
Turning it into something obscene that must be hidden or done behind closed doors is not healthy.
I know - and you said it better. I thought I'd give it a try too though.
Well I don't know about that.
I think your style is much more diplomatic than mine.
But yeah, I'm glad to see you here scb. Your posts on women's issues are ones I always thoroughly enjoy reading and I greatly admire the way you articulate your point of view.
And there is no such right to not see breastfeeding women.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want to avoid seeing a woman breastfeed. Breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural, sacred, life-sustaining event. Some cultures respect and honor it. Why doesn't ours?
Turning it into something obscene that must be hidden or done behind closed doors is not healthy.
why not?? cause titties are hot! and should only be touched by men for their amusement. thats why not.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think your style is much more diplomatic than mine.
But yeah, I'm glad to see you here scb. Your posts on women's issues are ones I always thoroughly enjoy reading and I greatly admire the way you articulate your point of view.
Aw... you're sweet!
I just can't seem to stay away from these women's issues threads!
"People who do not embrace the sight of breastfeeding are deemed to be anti-mother or anti-baby when they may be simply anti-rudenes.
Breastfeeding is natural and our society undoubtedly overreacts to naked breasts. But the winner-take-all approach of extreme advocates only acts to polarize society on a problem for which reasonable solutions can evolve. When done with some discretion, public breastfeeding is becoming socially acceptable with many businesses accommodating the shift.
Breastfeeding need not devolve into cultural warfare. The issue will yield to courtesy, common sense and a bit of respect for the other person's rights."
i'm so disappointed that it's not a cape that breastfeeding Moms wear that give the superpower to fly so that they can fly around in public and smack people upside the head with their giant boobies
i'm so disappointed that it's not a cape that breastfeeding Moms wear that give the superpower to fly so that they can fly around in public and smack people upside the head with their giant boobies
I've coined the phrase "baby burkha" for it pris.
It's got all the prerequisites, the black, the complete coverage of the child and breast not to mention the lovely net "eye panel". :rolleyes:
but please say that the baby burkha still give nursing Moms the ability to fly so that they can smack 'em upside their uptight heads?;)
Well I think it's probably viewed as something a bit more chaste and modest, so I doubt they'd give women the ability to fly with them. I mean we can't just have women flying around willy nilly smacking people on the the upside of their uptight heads there girlie. Where's the control with that? Next you'll be wanting a woman president or something! No, no, women should cover up, well unless they're hot, in which case they have a responsibility to flaunt their ta-tas for the pleasure of all men, no baby attached of course, that just aint sexy. I mean it's not right this women wanting super powers, they're already allowed to vote and work and spend their lives being objectified and viewed only in sexual terms, you can't mess with that. It upsets people, they can't cope.
I say we get ourselves an island like Wonder Woman and all the breastfeeding Mummies can fly off there to breast feed away from the poor, poor emotionally fragile types that can't deal with a baby getting a meal in public.
Man everytime I see my nieces and nephew try to eat solid foods in public I wanna barf, I just WISH they were still on the booby.
"People who do not embrace the sight of breastfeeding are deemed to be anti-mother or anti-baby when they may be simply anti-rudenes.
Breastfeeding is natural and our society undoubtedly overreacts to naked breasts. But the winner-take-all approach of extreme advocates only acts to polarize society on a problem for which reasonable solutions can evolve. When done with some discretion, public breastfeeding is becoming socially acceptable with many businesses accommodating the shift.
Breastfeeding need not devolve into cultural warfare. The issue will yield to courtesy, common sense and a bit of respect for the other person's rights."
While I understand where you're coming from, my problem is with the very idea that breastfeeding can ever be rude, inappropriate, disrespectful, shameful, or something that should be hidden or done with discretion. We need to be promoting breastfeeding every chance we get, not turning it into something dirty or viewing it as a necessary evil. What kind of message are we sending to our kids (and adults) when we say breastfeeding should be done in private so as not to offend anyone? No one should be offended in the first place.
I get that the author is saying we should all compromise, but I think there are some things that shouldn't be compromised and this is one of them. If we concede that breastfeeding is in any way a negative thing, we are doing a disservice to all children. If we don't concede, perhaps people will eventually become desensitized to it and realize what a normal part of life it is. Compromise, in this case, would be a step backward, in my opinion.
To me this is like if I was told that some people were offended by my blonde hair. Of course I shouldn't cut it off. But should I at least compromise and tone it down a little bit, maybe darken the color? Nope. I shouldn't even compromise. They just need to get over it. (Sorry, I know that's a strange analogy. )
My point is, women should cover up if they want to, but not out of shame. There's nothing rude about breastfeeding.
While I understand where you're coming from, my problem is with the very idea that breastfeeding can ever be rude, inappropriate, disrespectful, shameful, or something that should be hidden or done with discretion. We need to be promoting breastfeeding every chance we get, not turning it into something dirty or viewing it as a necessary evil. What kind of message are we sending to our kids (and adults) when we say breastfeeding should be done in private so as not to offend anyone? No one should be offended in the first place.
I get that the author is saying we should all compromise, but I think there are some things that shouldn't be compromised and this is one of them. If we concede that breastfeeding is in any way a negative thing, we are doing a disservice to all children. If we don't concede, perhaps people will eventually become desensitized to it and realize what a normal part of life it is. Compromise, in this case, would be a step backward, in my opinion.
To me this is like if I was told that some people were offended by my blonde hair. Of course I shouldn't cut it off. But should I at least compromise and tone it down a little bit, maybe darken the color? Nope. I shouldn't even compromise. They just need to get over it. (Sorry, I know that's a strange analogy. )
My point is, women should cover up if they want to, but not out of shame. There's nothing rude about breastfeeding.
I think perhaps, like most things to do with community awareness and changes in attitudes, to start with compromise isn't normally the name of the game. There is time enough for compromise later, when more people come to be familiar with the sight of a breastfeeding woman in public. Now is the time for changing attitudes, making people aware, getting people involved in debate.
I'm quite sure that Emmeline Pankhurst and her comrades were considered most unladylike and militant, just as people STILL hold onto to negative views regarding feminists even though there really is no debating that their initial "militant" actions were both necessary and beneficial. And let's not forget that Martin Luther King was considered militant and uppity by some. So yeah, if it's good enough for Larry Flint to get in people's faces about women's boobies being seen for purely sexual entertainment then it's perfectly ok with me if a few, probably exhausted new Mums, march around out the front of a store breastfeeding their babies in protest of archaic, puritanical attitudes. I find there's a tendency to trivialize the things that mothers protest about, well women protesting in general really, but as we see protesting mothers have made some amazing changes in the world.
It seems most people here agree. Mutual respect is the key.
I'm quite disappointed in all the sexist feminist remarks, though. Sure, they want respect... but giving respect seems to be a bit harder.
I'm sure I'll be called a weak male who can only associate breasts with sex and who wants all women to wear burkas, though.
I don't get it. I've seen plenty of posts of people who only ask women to use a little discretion. Plenty of women even agree with this. Yet, the men (pigs, I believe they were called. Reminds me of a thread about the word bitch) who ask for it are weak, link breasts soley to sex... or it's even considered another way for the oppressive man to keep his lady at home :rolleyes:
How about this crazy notion, though. Some people are just umcomfortable with it, like some people are uncomfortable being around someone who is completely naked. I'm sure the breastfeeding mom will say it's the most beautiful thing and very natural and nothing to be ashamed of, like I'm sure the naturists will tell you exactly the same.
But this thread isn't about mutual respect anymore. It's become a male-bashing thread.
So I guess the point is: Men you cannot have an opinion about breastfeeding, unless you say you are completely comfortable with it and urge women to do it everywhere. You cannot say you want a little discretion. I know, it's tricky. Women will say they agree that discretion is important and will be discrete about it and have never seen a mom not being discrete about it. But you, as a male, cannot say it. It is oppressive, it shows you are sex-obsessed and weak.
Fuck compromise, fuck mutual respect! Hooray!
I just hope the nudists follow this trend and start to protest. They have a very strong case, especially with all the breastfeeding moms who will of course support their goal.
Oh, and I can't believe you brought MLK into this. What's next? Hitler was against breastfeeding too? :rolleyes:
come on this is stupid ..i gave mz little one 6 months the breast but i never did in puplic ..onlz in the parc etc. but never in the restaurant etc.. bec. it is disturbing for someones ..so it is ok..we are living in a world where woman can show everything but not the tense of breastfeeding
It seems most people here agree. Mutual respect is the key.
I'm quite disappointed in all the sexist feminist remarks, though. Sure, they want respect... but giving respect seems to be a bit harder.
I'm sure I'll be called a weak male who can only associate breasts with sex and who wants all women to wear burkas, though.
I don't get it. I've seen plenty of posts of people who only ask women to use a little discretion. Plenty of women even agree with this. Yet, the men (pigs, I believe they were called. Reminds me of a thread about the word bitch) who ask for it are weak, link breasts soley to sex... or it's even considered another way for the oppressive man to keep his lady at home :rolleyes:
How about this crazy notion, though. Some people are just umcomfortable with it, like some people are uncomfortable being around someone who is completely naked. I'm sure the breastfeeding mom will say it's the most beautiful thing and very natural and nothing to be ashamed of, like I'm sure the naturists will tell you exactly the same.
But this thread isn't about mutual respect anymore. It's become a male-bashing thread.
So I guess the point is: Men you cannot have an opinion about breastfeeding, unless you say you are completely comfortable with it and urge women to do it everywhere. You cannot say you want a little discretion. I know, it's tricky. Women will say they agree that discretion is important and will be discrete about it and have never seen a mom not being discrete about it. But you, as a male, cannot say it. It is oppressive, it shows you are sex-obsessed and weak.
Fuck compromise, fuck mutual respect! Hooray!
I just hope the nudists follow this trend and start to protest. They have a very strong case, especially with all the breastfeeding moms who will of course support their goal.
Oh, and I can't believe you brought MLK into this. What's next? Hitler was against breastfeeding too? :rolleyes:
Hi
Someone with a three lettered screenname beginning with s made all the sensible points above, very respectfully
All I have to say is that my difficulty with "respecting" those uncomfortable with the sight of a breastfeeding mom is complicated by the gender issues involved. If there is any sense that it is disrespectful to breastfeed my child in public, then I may feel like it is best and most respectful for me to do it at home, and complicate my life considerably.
How about "averting your eyes"? I promise I won't move and put myself at the right angle to impose the sight of my breast. I won't forcibly open your eyes with my hands. They are busy!
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Someone with a three lettered screenname beginning with s made all the sensible points above, very respectfully
All I have to say is that my difficulty with "respecting" those uncomfortable with the sight of a breastfeeding mom is complicated by the gender issues involved. If there is any sense that it is disrespectful to breastfeed my child in public, then I may feel like it is best and most respectful for me to do it at home, and complicate my life considerably.
How about "averting your eyes"? I promise I won't move and put myself at the right angle to impose the sight of my breast. I won't forcibly open your eyes with my hands. They are busy!
Hi.
I can't seem to find the post or posts in which this person made those points at all.
It seems most people here agree. Mutual respect is the key.
Yep, people do agree for the most part as long as women breast feed as defined within the parameters of those that are uncomfortable with it, then we have mutual respect. Should you not agree those parameters are reasonable and dare to breastfeed in public and not fulfill all the expected requirements of every single person around you, then I guess there is no respect to be had for your point of view and your modesty and opinions then come into question. In other words, you have respect as long as you play by the unwritten rules and expectations of people that you've yet to come across. Great way to live.
I'm quite disappointed in all the sexist feminist remarks, though. Sure, they want respect... but giving respect seems to be a bit harder.
I was really disappointed by the misogynist, chauvinistic, sexist comments I found in the thread also so I can understand how you feel. Not to mention the diminishing of women and their breasts down to sexual objects, yet again. I guess when I get respect, I give it, pretty much like everyone else.
I'm sure I'll be called a weak male who can only associate breasts with sex and who wants all women to wear burkas, though.
It's called humour Collin, I'm sorry you missed it. In general comments made are in direct response to the ludicrous claims by some that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male. There are more than enough emoticons on most of those posts that indicate humour. Read back through the thread and try to imagine that you are a woman and that these comments and requirements are directed at you. That what you are asking of others was being asked of you. Try to imagine that someone is telling you what you can do with your body parts, where, when, how and what they think is suitable behaviour for you, right down to what you should wear while you're doing it. I'm sorry you can't see the similarities between the baby feeding cape and a burkha but there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I see it. A lot of other people see it too.
I don't think that the men, or women for that matter, that have all these requirements for acceptable breast feeding in public are weak, but I do think people don't seem to have enough to occupy their minds if it bothers them. I also think that some of the comments have been highly hypocrytical given just how completely unconcerned people are when they see a naked or semi naked woman in a sexually provocative situation during the day. If we are going to live in a world where sex sells, and let's face it we do, then if I'm going to see breasts and women being objectified as sexual objects then I also have no problem with seeing a woman using her breasts for their other function, which is to feed their babies.
I don't get it. I've seen plenty of posts of people who only ask women to use a little discretion. Plenty of women even agree with this. Yet, the men (pigs, I believe they were called. Reminds me of a thread about the word bitch) who ask for it are weak, link breasts soley to sex... or it's even considered another way for the oppressive man to keep his lady at home.
Collin when you left the house this morning, did you have to take into consideration that what you were wearing or how you went about your day might be highly offensive to me and many others? That if you're going to continue doing the thing that offends me, I only ask that you comply with my wishes in order to make me feel more comfortable and use discretion (as defined by me) in what you are wearing or how you go about your day? I realize that as a feminazi I have a militant view so it's easy to dismiss what I'm saying and that I won't rest until you are completely under my control. That it's my sole goal in this life to control you and monitor and approve your every move and take over the world. Yeah, that's right, ridiculous. :rolleyes:
When you go into the world you are going to come across people doing things that you don't like, see things that you don't want to see. I simply cannot believe that breastfeeding even enters people's radars given all the offensive crap that you see people do in a day.
How about this crazy notion, though. Some people are just umcomfortable with it, like some people are uncomfortable being around someone who is completely naked. I'm sure the breastfeeding mom will say it's the most beautiful thing and very natural and nothing to be ashamed of, like I'm sure the naturists will tell you exactly the same.
Ok, I am completely uncomfortable to the point of distress seeing people with severe handicaps in wheelchairs. Should I start placing unrealistic expectations on those people in order that I be more comfortable? NO! Of course not. It's my problem, my discomfort and I need to get over it and deal with it. It would be completely unreasonable of me to expect them to keep their disability at home away from my eyes OR place expectations on them to behave in a way that is more acceptable to me in public. Not to mention highly discriminatory of me to place my own personal constraints and expectations on their already complicated lives. See how it works?
So I guess the point is: Men you cannot have an opinion about breastfeeding, unless you say you are completely comfortable with it and urge women to do it everywhere. You cannot say you want a little discretion. I know, it's tricky. Women will say they agree that discretion is important and will be discrete about it and have never seen a mom not being discrete about it. But you, as a male, cannot say it. It is oppressive, it shows you are sex-obsessed and weak.
Sure you can say it, you can say whatever you like, just don't get your knickers in a twist if people don't agree with you or don't consider yours as valid an opinion if you will never breast feed, or will never be under constant instruction about what you can or cannot do with your breasts. I mean I can say as a woman that I don't agree with circumcision but ultimately my opinion is redundant because I don't have a penis and will never have to experience it one way or the other. That I think circumcision is barbaric probably shows I'm a radical lesbian feminist or one of those new fangled libertarian types if that's the way someone wants to view it.
I just hope the nudists follow this trend and start to protest. They have a very strong case, especially with all the breastfeeding moms who will of course support their goal.
I'd have no problem if nudists protested either. Actually I'm a big fan of the recent nude protests. Not sure that breastfeeding mums will have time to add their support to the protest what with all the rules and requirements they have to follow in a day just to feed their children but you never know. Perhaps some of those super woman feeding capes and the ability to fly might help?
Oh, and I can't believe you brought MLK into this. What's next? Hitler was against breastfeeding too?
Why? Do you think he wasn't breast fed? I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't, given just how angry he was with the world so most likely, given just how much he was against, he'd be bound to be against breastfeeding as well, but MLK seems as though he probably had the benefit of being breast fed and I'd put money on him being supportive of this basic human right.
While I understand where you're coming from, my problem is with the very idea that breastfeeding can ever be rude, inappropriate, disrespectful, shameful, or something that should be hidden or done with discretion. We need to be promoting breastfeeding every chance we get, not turning it into something dirty or viewing it as a necessary evil. What kind of message are we sending to our kids (and adults) when we say breastfeeding should be done in private so as not to offend anyone? No one should be offended in the first place.
I get that the author is saying we should all compromise, but I think there are some things that shouldn't be compromised and this is one of them. If we concede that breastfeeding is in any way a negative thing, we are doing a disservice to all children. If we don't concede, perhaps people will eventually become desensitized to it and realize what a normal part of life it is. Compromise, in this case, would be a step backward, in my opinion.
To me this is like if I was told that some people were offended by my blonde hair. Of course I shouldn't cut it off. But should I at least compromise and tone it down a little bit, maybe darken the color? Nope. I shouldn't even compromise. They just need to get over it. (Sorry, I know that's a strange analogy. )
My point is, women should cover up if they want to, but not out of shame. There's nothing rude about breastfeeding.
Its not that the breastfeeding is rude or bad or shameful- please understand.
Its not that you are breastfeeding- its the wham!- I'm going to pull my tit out without the thought to others- that is rude. When woman have babies, all thoughts of decorum goes out the window? It should not. Yes, we in America have a "puritanical" double standard- it is what it is. We are a society that changes slowly on some things and faster on others.
You "forcing" me will make it harder for me to see your side. Sometimes a gentle touch will get the point across. I'm happy to compromise. Feed baby, just don't be rude about it.
I'm just saying that you don't have the right to never see anything you don't want to see. No right here has ever been established on your part. The rights of breastfeeding women have been established.
There are plenty of things people may not want to see. Some people don't ever want to see men with long hair, or ugly people, or tattoos, or people with disabilities. Do they have a right to not see these things? Nope. And you don't have a right to not see a woman breastfeed.
Yep, people do agree for the most part as long as women breast feed as defined within the parameters of those that are uncomfortable with it, then we have mutual respect. Should you not agree those parameters are reasonable and dare to breastfeed in public and not fulfill all the expected requirements of every single person around you, then I guess there is no respect to be had for your point of view and your modesty and opinions then come into question. In other words, you have respect as long as you play by the unwritten rules and expectations of people that you've yet to come across. Great way to live.
Perhaps you don't understand the word 'mutual'. I guess it's my fault. I knew I was dealing with women. I should select my vocabulary more carefully and eliminate the 'hard' words.
Mutual means equally shared by both parties. That means breastfeeding women should be aware that some people find breastfeeding umcomfortable. So, then, perhaps they could be discrete about it when they are in a public place where lots and lots of people pass, like a H&M store, for example.
The uncomfortable people should also respect that breastfeeding is normal and it's their problem, not the mothers' problem. They shouldn't make a big deal about it and move along.
That's mu-tu-al respect, Jeanie
I was really disappointed by the misogynist, chauvinistic, sexist comments I found in the thread also so I can understand how you feel. Not to mention the diminishing of women and their breasts down to sexual objects, yet again. I guess when I get respect, I give it, pretty much like everyone else.
Well, I guess we can keep on disrespecting each other.
It's called humour Collin, I'm sorry you missed it.
I'd love to believe that but I think it's common knowledge that women don't have a sense of humour.
In general comments made are in direct response to the ludicrous claims by some that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male.
Well, see there's the problem. You can't really read. I don't blame you, of course, you're a woman. Nature made you less intelligent for a reason, I guess
Those ludicrous claims were never made, though. The only people who made those claims were women.
Read back through the thread and try to imagine that you are a woman and that these comments and requirements are directed at you. That what you are asking of others was being asked of you. Try to imagine that someone is telling you what you can do with your body parts, where, when, how and what they think is suitable behaviour for you, right down to what you should wear while you're doing it.
I stood next to a breastfeeding mom once and whipped out my dick. She called the police, I was arrested, put in jail and labeled a pervert by the entire femine population. How about that!
I also think that some of the comments have been highly hypocrytical given just how completely unconcerned people are when they see a naked or semi naked woman in a sexually provocative situation during the day. If we are going to live in a world where sex sells, and let's face it we do, then if I'm going to see breasts and women being objectified as sexual objects then I also have no problem with seeing a woman using her breasts for their other function, which is to feed their babies.
It works both ways, of course.
And please, it's not like men force girls to dress like that. They choose to do so. It's their choice as a woman. I won't stand in their way. Yet, I'm the one being blamed and called sexist and I'm the one who objectifies women? How the hell does that work?
Like I said many times before I don't have a problem with women breastfeeding. I don't have a problem with scantily-clad women either. You seem to have a problem with the latter.
Collin when you left the house this morning, did you have to take into consideration that what you were wearing or how you went about your day might be highly offensive to me and many others?
Yes, I wanted to go out butt naked. I put on pants and a shirt, though.
See how it works?
Why shouldn't adult males be allowed to walk around naked in the park where your children play? Avert your eyes if you don't like it. There's no way they should compromise. The human body is beautiful and completely natural. There's nothing wrong with it and I won't have it that a bunch of uptight people can't accept that.
It's as much a male bashing thread as it is a woman bashing thread. I think the bashing is pretty even frankly.
I disagree.
Sure you can say it, you can say whatever you like, just don't get your knickers in a twist if people don't agree with you or don't consider yours as valid an opinion if you will never breast feed, or will never be under constant instruction about what you can or cannot do with your breasts. I mean I can say as a woman that I don't agree with circumcision but ultimately my opinion is redundant because I don't have a penis and will never have to experience it one way or the other. That I think circumcision is barbaric probably shows I'm a radical lesbian feminist or one of those new fangled libertarian types if that's the way someone wants to view it.
If they start doing circumcisions in public, I'll remind you that your opinion is redundant.
Yeah, I got nothin for this, it seems a bit juvenile to me but perhaps you're cracking a joke?
Almost there, Jeanie. Who knows maybe one day you'll understand humour
No, it wasn't a joke, though. I rephrased what I read here.
Why? Do you think he wasn't breast fed? I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't, given just how angry he was with the world so most likely, given just how much he was against, he'd be bound to be against breastfeeding as well, but MLK seems as though he probably had the benefit of being breast fed and I'd put money on him being supportive of this basic human right.
I don't care whether MLK was breastfed or not. It's totally irrelevant and only a woman would be so stupid to bring him up in a discussion about breastfeeding (I'd insert a smiley face here, but I ran out)
Comments
yes it is.
but what you find convenient and what a nursing mother find convenient may well be two different things. and when i say convenient and comfortable for the mother i mean exactly what it says. if she is comfortable with where she feeding and its convenient to feed the baby, then thats it. and i mean comfortable in her disposition and the situation as well as a nice comfy chair or whatever. but definately not a cramped dressing room.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Thank you.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
You are correct. The rights of breastfeeding women have been established.
I know - and you said it better. I thought I'd give it a try too though.
And there is no such right to not see breastfeeding women.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want to avoid seeing a woman breastfeed. Breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural, sacred, life-sustaining event. Some cultures respect and honor it. Why doesn't ours?
Turning it into something obscene that must be hidden or done behind closed doors is not healthy.
Well I don't know about that.
I think your style is much more diplomatic than mine.
But yeah, I'm glad to see you here scb. Your posts on women's issues are ones I always thoroughly enjoy reading and I greatly admire the way you articulate your point of view.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
why not?? cause titties are hot! and should only be touched by men for their amusement. thats why not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Aw... you're sweet!
I just can't seem to stay away from these women's issues threads!
Sadly, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy33.html
Toward the end of the article:
"People who do not embrace the sight of breastfeeding are deemed to be anti-mother or anti-baby when they may be simply anti-rudenes.
Breastfeeding is natural and our society undoubtedly overreacts to naked breasts. But the winner-take-all approach of extreme advocates only acts to polarize society on a problem for which reasonable solutions can evolve. When done with some discretion, public breastfeeding is becoming socially acceptable with many businesses accommodating the shift.
Breastfeeding need not devolve into cultural warfare. The issue will yield to courtesy, common sense and a bit of respect for the other person's rights."
Please don't.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
well now i'm sorry i asked because that's lame.
i'm so disappointed that it's not a cape that breastfeeding Moms wear that give the superpower to fly so that they can fly around in public and smack people upside the head with their giant boobies
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I've coined the phrase "baby burkha" for it pris.
It's got all the prerequisites, the black, the complete coverage of the child and breast not to mention the lovely net "eye panel". :rolleyes:
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Yeah, touched and suckled cause men remember how wonderful it was!
You'd think inadvertently getting the opportunity to see some one else enjoy how wonderful it is would have all the boys on side then!
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sure...why not? make sense
but please say that the baby burkha still give nursing Moms the ability to fly so that they can smack 'em upside their uptight heads?;)
angels share laughter
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Well I think it's probably viewed as something a bit more chaste and modest, so I doubt they'd give women the ability to fly with them. I mean we can't just have women flying around willy nilly smacking people on the the upside of their uptight heads there girlie.
I say we get ourselves an island like Wonder Woman and all the breastfeeding Mummies can fly off there to breast feed away from the poor, poor emotionally fragile types that can't deal with a baby getting a meal in public.
Man everytime I see my nieces and nephew try to eat solid foods in public I wanna barf, I just WISH they were still on the booby.
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While I understand where you're coming from, my problem is with the very idea that breastfeeding can ever be rude, inappropriate, disrespectful, shameful, or something that should be hidden or done with discretion. We need to be promoting breastfeeding every chance we get, not turning it into something dirty or viewing it as a necessary evil. What kind of message are we sending to our kids (and adults) when we say breastfeeding should be done in private so as not to offend anyone? No one should be offended in the first place.
I get that the author is saying we should all compromise, but I think there are some things that shouldn't be compromised and this is one of them. If we concede that breastfeeding is in any way a negative thing, we are doing a disservice to all children. If we don't concede, perhaps people will eventually become desensitized to it and realize what a normal part of life it is. Compromise, in this case, would be a step backward, in my opinion.
To me this is like if I was told that some people were offended by my blonde hair. Of course I shouldn't cut it off. But should I at least compromise and tone it down a little bit, maybe darken the color? Nope. I shouldn't even compromise. They just need to get over it. (Sorry, I know that's a strange analogy.
My point is, women should cover up if they want to, but not out of shame. There's nothing rude about breastfeeding.
I think perhaps, like most things to do with community awareness and changes in attitudes, to start with compromise isn't normally the name of the game. There is time enough for compromise later, when more people come to be familiar with the sight of a breastfeeding woman in public. Now is the time for changing attitudes, making people aware, getting people involved in debate.
I'm quite sure that Emmeline Pankhurst and her comrades were considered most unladylike and militant, just as people STILL hold onto to negative views regarding feminists even though there really is no debating that their initial "militant" actions were both necessary and beneficial. And let's not forget that Martin Luther King was considered militant and uppity by some. So yeah, if it's good enough for Larry Flint to get in people's faces about women's boobies being seen for purely sexual entertainment then it's perfectly ok with me if a few, probably exhausted new Mums, march around out the front of a store breastfeeding their babies in protest of archaic, puritanical attitudes. I find there's a tendency to trivialize the things that mothers protest about, well women protesting in general really, but as we see protesting mothers have made some amazing changes in the world.
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Thankyou thankyou, I think I just hit reply or something........ doh!
I'm quite disappointed in all the sexist feminist remarks, though. Sure, they want respect... but giving respect seems to be a bit harder.
I'm sure I'll be called a weak male who can only associate breasts with sex and who wants all women to wear burkas, though.
I don't get it. I've seen plenty of posts of people who only ask women to use a little discretion. Plenty of women even agree with this. Yet, the men (pigs, I believe they were called. Reminds me of a thread about the word bitch) who ask for it are weak, link breasts soley to sex... or it's even considered another way for the oppressive man to keep his lady at home :rolleyes:
How about this crazy notion, though. Some people are just umcomfortable with it, like some people are uncomfortable being around someone who is completely naked. I'm sure the breastfeeding mom will say it's the most beautiful thing and very natural and nothing to be ashamed of, like I'm sure the naturists will tell you exactly the same.
But this thread isn't about mutual respect anymore. It's become a male-bashing thread.
So I guess the point is: Men you cannot have an opinion about breastfeeding, unless you say you are completely comfortable with it and urge women to do it everywhere. You cannot say you want a little discretion. I know, it's tricky. Women will say they agree that discretion is important and will be discrete about it and have never seen a mom not being discrete about it. But you, as a male, cannot say it. It is oppressive, it shows you are sex-obsessed and weak.
Fuck compromise, fuck mutual respect! Hooray!
I just hope the nudists follow this trend and start to protest. They have a very strong case, especially with all the breastfeeding moms who will of course support their goal.
Oh, and I can't believe you brought MLK into this. What's next? Hitler was against breastfeeding too? :rolleyes:
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Hi
Someone with a three lettered screenname beginning with s made all the sensible points above, very respectfully
All I have to say is that my difficulty with "respecting" those uncomfortable with the sight of a breastfeeding mom is complicated by the gender issues involved. If there is any sense that it is disrespectful to breastfeed my child in public, then I may feel like it is best and most respectful for me to do it at home, and complicate my life considerably.
How about "averting your eyes"? I promise I won't move and put myself at the right angle to impose the sight of my breast. I won't forcibly open your eyes with my hands. They are busy!
Hi.
I can't seem to find the post or posts in which this person made those points at all.
edit: I might have misunderstood you, though...
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Yep, people do agree for the most part as long as women breast feed as defined within the parameters of those that are uncomfortable with it, then we have mutual respect. Should you not agree those parameters are reasonable and dare to breastfeed in public and not fulfill all the expected requirements of every single person around you, then I guess there is no respect to be had for your point of view and your modesty and opinions then come into question. In other words, you have respect as long as you play by the unwritten rules and expectations of people that you've yet to come across. Great way to live.
I was really disappointed by the misogynist, chauvinistic, sexist comments I found in the thread also so I can understand how you feel. Not to mention the diminishing of women and their breasts down to sexual objects, yet again. I guess when I get respect, I give it, pretty much like everyone else.
It's called humour Collin, I'm sorry you missed it. In general comments made are in direct response to the ludicrous claims by some that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male. There are more than enough emoticons on most of those posts that indicate humour. Read back through the thread and try to imagine that you are a woman and that these comments and requirements are directed at you. That what you are asking of others was being asked of you. Try to imagine that someone is telling you what you can do with your body parts, where, when, how and what they think is suitable behaviour for you, right down to what you should wear while you're doing it. I'm sorry you can't see the similarities between the baby feeding cape and a burkha but there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I see it. A lot of other people see it too.
I don't think that the men, or women for that matter, that have all these requirements for acceptable breast feeding in public are weak, but I do think people don't seem to have enough to occupy their minds if it bothers them. I also think that some of the comments have been highly hypocrytical given just how completely unconcerned people are when they see a naked or semi naked woman in a sexually provocative situation during the day. If we are going to live in a world where sex sells, and let's face it we do, then if I'm going to see breasts and women being objectified as sexual objects then I also have no problem with seeing a woman using her breasts for their other function, which is to feed their babies.
Collin when you left the house this morning, did you have to take into consideration that what you were wearing or how you went about your day might be highly offensive to me and many others? That if you're going to continue doing the thing that offends me, I only ask that you comply with my wishes in order to make me feel more comfortable and use discretion (as defined by me) in what you are wearing or how you go about your day? I realize that as a feminazi I have a militant view so it's easy to dismiss what I'm saying and that I won't rest until you are completely under my control. That it's my sole goal in this life to control you and monitor and approve your every move and take over the world. Yeah, that's right, ridiculous. :rolleyes:
When you go into the world you are going to come across people doing things that you don't like, see things that you don't want to see. I simply cannot believe that breastfeeding even enters people's radars given all the offensive crap that you see people do in a day.
Ok, I am completely uncomfortable to the point of distress seeing people with severe handicaps in wheelchairs. Should I start placing unrealistic expectations on those people in order that I be more comfortable? NO! Of course not. It's my problem, my discomfort and I need to get over it and deal with it. It would be completely unreasonable of me to expect them to keep their disability at home away from my eyes OR place expectations on them to behave in a way that is more acceptable to me in public. Not to mention highly discriminatory of me to place my own personal constraints and expectations on their already complicated lives. See how it works?
It's as much a male bashing thread as it is a woman bashing thread. I think the bashing is pretty even frankly.
Sure you can say it, you can say whatever you like, just don't get your knickers in a twist if people don't agree with you or don't consider yours as valid an opinion if you will never breast feed, or will never be under constant instruction about what you can or cannot do with your breasts. I mean I can say as a woman that I don't agree with circumcision but ultimately my opinion is redundant because I don't have a penis and will never have to experience it one way or the other. That I think circumcision is barbaric probably shows I'm a radical lesbian feminist or one of those new fangled libertarian types if that's the way someone wants to view it.
Yeah, I got nothin for this, it seems a bit juvenile to me but perhaps you're cracking a joke?
I'd have no problem if nudists protested either. Actually I'm a big fan of the recent nude protests. Not sure that breastfeeding mums will have time to add their support to the protest what with all the rules and requirements they have to follow in a day just to feed their children but you never know. Perhaps some of those super woman feeding capes and the ability to fly might help?
Why? Do you think he wasn't breast fed? I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't, given just how angry he was with the world
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Its not that the breastfeeding is rude or bad or shameful- please understand.
Its not that you are breastfeeding- its the wham!- I'm going to pull my tit out without the thought to others- that is rude. When woman have babies, all thoughts of decorum goes out the window? It should not. Yes, we in America have a "puritanical" double standard- it is what it is. We are a society that changes slowly on some things and faster on others.
You "forcing" me will make it harder for me to see your side. Sometimes a gentle touch will get the point across. I'm happy to compromise. Feed baby, just don't be rude about it.
It was scb
Well done, scb.
(as usual.
Perhaps you don't understand the word 'mutual'. I guess it's my fault. I knew I was dealing with women. I should select my vocabulary more carefully and eliminate the 'hard' words.
Mutual means equally shared by both parties. That means breastfeeding women should be aware that some people find breastfeeding umcomfortable. So, then, perhaps they could be discrete about it when they are in a public place where lots and lots of people pass, like a H&M store, for example.
The uncomfortable people should also respect that breastfeeding is normal and it's their problem, not the mothers' problem. They shouldn't make a big deal about it and move along.
That's mu-tu-al respect, Jeanie
Well, I guess we can keep on disrespecting each other.
I'd love to believe that but I think it's common knowledge that women don't have a sense of humour.
Well, see there's the problem. You can't really read. I don't blame you, of course, you're a woman. Nature made you less intelligent for a reason, I guess
Those ludicrous claims were never made, though. The only people who made those claims were women.
I stood next to a breastfeeding mom once and whipped out my dick. She called the police, I was arrested, put in jail and labeled a pervert by the entire femine population. How about that!
It works both ways, of course.
And please, it's not like men force girls to dress like that. They choose to do so. It's their choice as a woman. I won't stand in their way. Yet, I'm the one being blamed and called sexist and I'm the one who objectifies women? How the hell does that work?
Like I said many times before I don't have a problem with women breastfeeding. I don't have a problem with scantily-clad women either. You seem to have a problem with the latter.
Yes, I wanted to go out butt naked. I put on pants and a shirt, though.
Why shouldn't adult males be allowed to walk around naked in the park where your children play? Avert your eyes if you don't like it. There's no way they should compromise. The human body is beautiful and completely natural. There's nothing wrong with it and I won't have it that a bunch of uptight people can't accept that.
I disagree.
If they start doing circumcisions in public, I'll remind you that your opinion is redundant.
Almost there, Jeanie. Who knows maybe one day you'll understand humour
No, it wasn't a joke, though. I rephrased what I read here.
I don't care whether MLK was breastfed or not. It's totally irrelevant and only a woman would be so stupid to bring him up in a discussion about breastfeeding (I'd insert a smiley face here, but I ran out)
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That's what I thought. I looked at her posts and I disagree with you, meme. I don't think she made those points.
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