Perhaps you don't understand the word 'mutual'. I guess it's my fault. I knew I was dealing with women. I should select my vocabulary more carefully and eliminate the 'hard' words.
Yeah, I know how you feel. I have to tone down my thoughts and opinions and choose my words carefully all the time because they're just too complex for some blokes to understand.
Mutual means equally shared by both parties. That means breastfeeding women should be aware that some people find breastfeeding uncomfortable. So, then, perhaps they could be discrete about it when they are in a public place where lots and lots of people pass, like a H&M store, for example.
The uncomfortable people should also respect that breastfeeding is normal and it's their problem, not the mothers' problem. They shouldn't make a big deal about it and move along.
That's mu-tu-al respect, Jeanie
Agreed. But who is defining said discretion? I mean if I accidentally don't cover myself properly and you inadvertently cop an eyeful what would the appropriate punishment be do you think? Boil me in oil? Whithering looks? Aghast outcry? I mean frankly I've had a gutful of people oggling my boobs over the years, I'm hardly gonna wiggle em around and give a free burlesque show before I feed but that's me. If someone else is more comfortable exposing more of themselves that's their business. What I wanna know is how does one juggle the baby, check and double check all angles to make sure no one can see, wrestle with the bra, get the baby latched on and always 100% of the time avoid upsetting people that if they don't wanna see shouldn't be looking in the first place? Complicated. Glad I've never had to worry about it. Hats off to the poor buggers that have.
Well, see there's the problem. You can't really read. I don't blame you, of course, you're a woman. Nature made you less intelligent for a reason, I guess
I stood next to a breastfeeding mom once and whipped out my dick. She called the police, I was arrested, put in jail and labeled a pervert by the entire femine population. How about that!
Serious? Man I can't count how many times I've been subjected to a bloke whipping it out in public right in front of me. Probably more times than I've seen a woman's breast inadvertently while she was attempting to breast feed. Nobody has ever been arrested in any case.
And please, it's not like men force girls to dress like that. They choose to do so. It's their choice as a woman. I won't stand in their way. Yet, I'm the one being blamed and called sexist and I'm the one who objectifies women? How the hell does that work?
Hmmm so men don't objectify women? And supposing they do it's women's fault anyway?
Like I said many times before I don't have a problem with women breastfeeding. I don't have a problem with scantily-clad women either. You seem to have a problem with the latter.
Huh? I do? What are you basing that assumption on?
Why shouldn't adult males be allowed to walk around naked in the park where your children play? Avert your eyes if you don't like it. There's no way they should compromise. The human body is beautiful and completely natural. There's nothing wrong with it and I won't have it that a bunch of uptight people can't accept that.
Well adult males unaccompanied by a child tend to be vilified in parks where children play these days even if they have clothing on but a guy doesn't breast feed so I'm not really sure why he'd need to be naked in the park anyway. I have seen topless blokes in the park where children play though. Nobody seems to get up in arms about it here.
I don't care whether MLK was breastfed or not. It's totally irrelevant and only a woman would be so stupid to bring him up in a discussion about breastfeeding (I'd insert a smiley face here, but I ran out)
If you think so but I'm a bit disappointed that you are unable to grasp the parallels. Or should we not consider the words and deeds of men at all in this debate?
I have no problem with breastfeeding whatsoever. Let that be clear, but...
... I think a little discretion is in order. We live in a society and we are quite happy when people are discreet about certain things. I don't see why breastfeeding should be any different. And it looks to me many (breastfeeding) women feel the same way.
... I think the whole aspect of breasts being regarded as sexual in this discussion is ridiculous. There are both men and women who are uncomfortable around breastfeeding mothers. Not just men. That's one thing.
Breasts are regarded as sexual by both men and women. Again, not just by men. There are plenty of men who are not uncomfortable around breastfeeding women too, the fathers for example.
... this is hardly a feminist issue. This is not about the objectification of women. But, while we're on the subject, women have choices. They can go into an H&M store and breastfeed and they can go into an H&M store and by clothes they like. They don't have to wear provocative clothes. No one is forcing them. Stop pretending that the male world is demanding these women to dress like that or in other words, stop being sexist. Also, supporting the notion that men are not able to regard breasts as anything other than sexual is also sexist.
... Breastfeeding is indeed natural. Many things are. You may have noticed that breastfeeding is legal. A lot of other natural things are illegal. So before bashing the male chauvenist power-structure, perhaps you could utter a thank you for that little fact.
I also think that something being "natural" is not a good argument to allow something. Any rational person will come to that conclusion. Someone posted a link to a story of a bitch feeding little tiger cubs. Both these animals do a lot of natural things that just aren't acceptable if humans do them.
I have not read this entire thread, but feel compelled to respond to this.
Women should and do have a right to breastfeed their child whenever and wherever they choose. Why people get so upset as seeing a mother nursing a child is beyond me. I do not understand this at all. Hell, we have teenagers walking around bearing much more than a mother who is nursing a child. There are fat people wearing skin tight clothes with boobs and belly hanging out and no one really says anything to them. Get a life people!
Breastfeeding is perfectly normal and naturual. It does not bother anyone. I don't see what the big deal is. When a child gets hungry, a mother must feed the baby! Breastfeeding is the best thing for a baby.
My wife ws a bit self conscious about nursing our daughter in public, but now she does not even think about it. No one has been rude to her, but if they were, they would certainly get an earful.
I have not read this entire thread, but feel compelled to respond to this.
Women should and do have a right to breastfeed their child whenever and wherever they choose. Why people get so upset as seeing a mother nursing a child is beyond me. I do not understand this at all. Hell, we have teenagers walking around bearing much more than a mother who is nursing a child. There are fat people wearing skin tight clothes with boobs and belly hanging out and no one really says anything to them. Get a life people!
Breastfeeding is perfectly normal and naturual. It does not bother anyone. I don't see what the big deal is. When a child gets hungry, a mother must feed the baby! Breastfeeding is the best thing for a baby.
My wife ws a bit self conscious about nursing our daughter in public, but now she does not even think about it. No one has been rude to her, but if they were, they would certainly get an earful.
Agreed. But who is defining said discretion? I mean if I accidentally don't cover myself properly and you inadvertently cop an eyeful what would the appropriate punishment be do you think? Boil me in oil? Whithering looks? Aghast outcry?
And that after I explained mutual so clearly.
No punishment. By saying accidentally I assume you'd normally cover your boob = your end of the mutual respect. Covering your boobs when you decide to breastfeed on a plane or in a crowded store.
Other side of the mutual respect is accepting breastfeeding happens and there is no punishment when you see a woman's boob. That it's legal, normal and they have every right to do so even if you disagree.
edit: Furthermore, a look or a cry does not infringe on your right to breastfeed. These people have every right to express their opinion, it's called freedom of speech.
Ah no, read back over the thread it's there, even blind freddy can see it. Or perhaps you've got selective vision?
Sorry - but you are wrong. Sure, practical purposes that's their only "function." But you know as well as I do that that is a load of shit. Tits, nipples especially have loads of nerves that work well with SEX. And you have to have SEX before you can breast feed, right? So, they do start as sex boobs before they turn into baby feeding boobs.
Are you talking about this? Is this the post that says "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male."
If not, I don't know what you are talking about.
If it is... then you are wrong. And it has been proven that the waist and the size of the breasts help men, subconsciously, with their partner choice. This has to do with furtility. So, the breast and the female figure in general do play a role even before the woman uses her breasts to feed. The primary function is to feed. Another function is to help get a woman pregnant. Plenty scientific studies about that. It's all part of a bigger process, a natural instinct to reproduce and finding a suitable partner to do this with.
Again if it's not this post you were refering to please show me the posts where people say the following:
1) breasts sole purpose is the sexual gratification of the male of the species, 2) breasts should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male.
I tried to find them but couldn't. Since they are so apparent, I'm sure you'll help me out.
Hmmm so men don't objectify women? And supposing they do it's women's fault anyway?
That's not what I said.
Well adult males unaccompanied by a child tend to be vilified in parks where children play these days even if they have clothing on but a guy doesn't breast feed so I'm not really sure why he'd need to be naked in the park anyway. I have seen topless blokes in the park where children play though. Nobody seems to get up in arms about it here.
I don't see why he'd have to be dressed anyway to be anyware.
If you think so but I'm a bit disappointed that you are unable to grasp the parallels. Or should we not consider the words and deeds of men at all in this debate?
I can't believe you are serious? You are actually comparing what black people went through with this?
My wife ws a bit self conscious about nursing our daughter in public, but now she does not even think about it. No one has been rude to her, but if they were, they would certainly get an earful.
No one's been rude?
I thought for sure they'd try to lynch her. You mean no one has put a burning cross on your lawn? People don't throw bricks threw your windows? Not even hateful graffiti slogan on your house?
No punishment. By saying accidentally I assume you'd normally cover your boob = your end of the mutual respect. Covering your boobs when you decide to breastfeed on a plane or in a crowded store.
Other side of the mutual respect is accepting breastfeeding happens and there is no punishment when you see a woman's boob. That it's legal, normal and they have every right to do so even if you disagree.
Sorry - but you are wrong. Sure, practical purposes that's their only "function." But you know as well as I do that that is a load of shit. Tits, nipples especially have loads of nerves that work well with SEX. And you have to have SEX before you can breast feed, right? So, they do start as sex boobs before they turn into baby feeding boobs.
Are you talking about this? Is this the post that says "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male."
If not, I don't know what you are talking about.
If it is... then you are wrong. And it has been proven that the waist and the size of the breasts help men, subconsciously, with their partner choice. This has to do with furtility. So, the breast and the female figure in general do play a role even before the woman uses her breasts to feed. The primary function is to feed. Another function is to help get a woman pregnant. Plenty scientific studies about that. It's all part of a bigger process, a natural instinct to reproduce and finding a suitable partner to do this with.
Again if it's not this post you were refering to please show me the posts where people say the following:
1) breasts sole purpose is the sexual gratification of the male of the species, 2) breasts should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male.
I tried to find them but couldn't. Since they are so apparent, I'm sure you'll help me out.
That's not what I said.
I don't see why he'd have to be dressed anyway to be anyware.
I can't believe you are serious? You are actually comparing what black people went through with this?
Collin I cannot see the point to continuing this. You are obviously very concerned about what you think I've said and you're wrong. You think I'm wrong so what's the point? As far as I'm concerned women are vilified in this society enough without having to also add a whole new set of rules and regulations in order not to offend some people. If women want to breast feed in public then they are legally allowed to do so and I fully support them. If that means some people are uncomfortable well **shrug** I feel sorry for them that they can't just get over it and worry about things that really matter but their discomfort is of secondary concern and less importance as far as I'm concerned. Accidently seeing a boob is not that big of a deal in the general scheme of things. What I'll never understand is a society that places expectation on a woman to behave modestly and in consideration of people who may be offended should she breast feed in public but there is not an equal expectation of modesty on women when revealing their breasts for sexual gratification and titivation in public. It's a seriously fucked up world when Girls Gone Wild are applauded for flashing their breasts in public and are encouraged to do so no strings attached but a woman attempting to feed her child is expected to behave with modesty and in consideration and mutual respect of those around her. To me if Girls Gone Wild, Hooters, topless sunbathers, fashion models, actresses, *insert whatever topless female you like here* can and do show their breasts in public on a daily basis then breast feeding mothers should also be of no concern. It's a piss poor double standard as far as I can see. They're just tits. Why all the hoo ha? So I'll leave you to continue assuming that I'm a rampant feminazi or whatever other negative opinions you've incorrectly formed and I'll continue with my growing negative impressions of you. It's not that big of a deal. G'night.
When I was nursing, I could never figure out the blanket thing. It always seemed to me that it would have suffocated my child or made him very uncomfortable (I was nursing during the summer), so I never used it. Was I modest? Was I discreet? Thing is, I had no desire to show anyone my goodies. I just wanted to feed my child. I guess if a woman exposes herself for the sake of doing it, we can go after her in the same way in which we would if she flashed people on the street, regardless of the fact she has a baby with her or not?
Now don't ask me how you tell the difference, cause as far as I am concerned I would not go after the flashing lady either.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Collin I cannot see the point to continuing this. You are obviously very concerned about what you think I've said and you're wrong. You think I'm wrong so what's the point? As far as I'm concerned women are vilified in this society enough without having to also add a whole new set of rules and regulations in order not to offend some people. If women want to breast feed in public then they are legally allowed to do so and I fully support them. If that means some people are uncomfortable well **shrug** I feel sorry for them that they can't just get over it and worry about things that really matter but their discomfort is of secondary concern and less importance as far as I'm concerned. Accidently seeing a boob is not that big of a deal in the general scheme of things. What I'll never understand is a society that places expectation on a woman to behave modestly and in consideration of people who may be offended should she breast feed in public but there is not an equal expectation of modesty on women when revealing their breasts for sexual gratification and titivation in public. It's a seriously fucked up world when Girls Gone Wild are applauded for flashing their breasts in public and are encouraged to do so no strings attached but a woman attempting to feed her child is expected to behave with modesty and in consideration and mutual respect of those around her. To me if Girls Gone Wild, Hooters, topless sunbathers, fashion models, actresses, *insert whatever topless female you like here* can and do show their breasts in public on a daily basis then breast feeding mothers should also be of no concern. It's a piss poor double standard as far as I can see. They're just tits. Why all the hoo ha? So I'll leave you to continue assuming that I'm a rampant feminazi or whatever other negative opinions you've incorrectly formed and I'll continue with my growing negative impressions of you. It's not that big of a deal. G'night.
I take it you can't give an example of posts that say "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male" because there aren't such posts in this thread.
This is a clear example of what bothers me. Talk about a double standard, indeed. Men have been vilified in this very thread and none of the feminists who are so concerned with sexism have said a word about it, instead they inforced it and tried to justify it. You can make generalization about men, call them all pigs, weak, unable to see breasts as anything other than something sexual... It's all tolerated. It's this hypocrisy that bothers me. It especially bothers me because this hateful language was deemed hateful and sexist by them, not me. I said there was nothing sexist about the word bitch (only in an explicit sexist context) and everyone was against me. Now, men are called pigs, weak... and it's all justified, all the ladies share a few laughs, add a few smileys... And it's not sexist. I remember that the word 'bitch' was sexist in about any possible context whatsoever... I guess there really is a double standard, eh?
I never ever in this entire thread or in my entire life said that women should be forced to cover their breast or feed their children discretely. Never.
I talked about mutual respect. I hope that woman can take other people's feelings into consideration when they breastfeed, and like I have said quite a few times in this thread, it seems many women do. If you don't, I certainly won't complain and I certainly won't do anything about it. I don't give a damn. You can walk around naked, breastfeed your baby next to me... I don't care, I'll look away. I even think most women wouldn't like it if I started staring.
But it appears it's only the feminists such as scb who don't give a fuck about other people. This is a war against women and should be fought. There's no room for compromise (the little discretion most people, men and women, seem to agree on). But hey, it's your every right.
If you think society encourages flashing your tits in public, go into a H&M topless. Society doesn't encourage that at all. Remember nipple gate? :rolleyes: It was a freakin' national scandal in the US.
And in case you were wondering, Jeanie, I haven't formed any negative opinions about you. But if I'm perfectly honest I'm disappointed that you have judged me so quickly.
If you read my posts, you'll see that I never uttered a negative word about breastfeeding, never said there should be rules about when or where it is approriate and under what conditions. What I did do, however, was disagree with some of the arguments made for why breastfeeding should be allowed.
And as usual I've been punished for it by a group of female posters.
So, I'm done with this thread and quite frankly I'm disappointed in a lot of posters of whom I always considered to be respectful, polite and reasonable.
Yep, people do agree for the most part as long as women breast feed as defined within the parameters of those that are uncomfortable with it, then we have mutual respect. Should you not agree those parameters are reasonable and dare to breastfeed in public and not fulfill all the expected requirements of every single person around you, then I guess there is no respect to be had for your point of view and your modesty and opinions then come into question. In other words, you have respect as long as you play by the unwritten rules and expectations of people that you've yet to come across. Great way to live.
Just reading through this thread again, and as stated by many, most women BF discretely when in public. The "pigs" you refer to are the one's that highlighted the intolerance of society only until a few years ago, and through their protest and raising of awareness in many countries, made it illegal to ask a BF mother to move on. These were the days of women being told to take their babies to the public toilet to feed them. Would you eat your lunch in a toilet? When it appears that attitudes are going backwards, the "pigs" will keep the issue in the limelight. More power to em!
I do agree that most women are discreet when they breast feed but for the purpose of this particular thread, I still don’t agree that this woman absolutely HAD to feed her baby that very second in the middle of H&M. Just to pick up on your point, no I wouldn’t eat my lunch in a toilet, but similarly I wouldn’t eat my lunch in the middle of H&M either. I would do what the majority of people would do and go outside and find a slightly less busy and more appropriate place to eat. I can’t imagine somewhere as busy and chaotic as a shop would be a pleasant atmosphere for a baby to feed anyway, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Actually, it is. My statement was OVERLY sexualized. There was a time through westernized history where breastfeeding was utterly frowned upon, and babies were fed milk from other animals via a plastic bottle. This was the norm. As a result of this, the PRIMARY purpose of the breast was forgotten, society evolved into one of intolerance and breasts became PRIMARILY sexual objects.
I’m not sure it’s necessarily a case of over ‘sexualisation’ that reduced the amount of women breast feeding, I’m no historian so I couldn’t answer that one, but I think there would also be a case to argue that as women’s rights were brought to the fore front and more and more women went out to work, more solutions to the baby feeding situation were created. Certainly breasts did become more ‘sexualised’, although rather ironically the current ‘ideal’ body type for a female is super skinny with barely any breasts.
And, sorry, you're wrong about the constitution of the breast. The mammary glands themselves make up a portion of the breast, you then have primary, secondary and tertiary milk ducts, which are held together by a network of connective tissue. In a woman of average weight, there actually isn't a lot of fat within the breast. All of the tissue involved in the breast and nipple are there to facilitate breastfeeding, right down to the sensitivity of the nipple.
Sorry but from everything I’ve read the breast is predominantly made up of fat and blood vessels, there are plenty of diagrams and articles to support that, just do a google search (I’ll do it for you if you can’t be bothered!). This is further supported by the fact that when women gain or lose weight the breasts get larger or smaller.
When humans became bipeds and began walking upright, it was necessary for the breast tissue to evolve to accommodate feeding in an upright position. With a completely flat chest, as well as an infant who has evolved and lost the ability to hold onto its mother, BF would prove very difficult.
That’s just a theory, curiously I found this argument was mostly perpetuated on pro-breast feeding/ attachment parenting sites. Biologists have suggested quite the opposite, that larger breasts can often smother the child – and nobody said a ‘completely flat chest’ obviously there would be a small amount of protrusion due to the mammary glands and supporting structures. Here’s a brief article I just found which gives you the gist of the argument. http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0067.htm
Its not that the breastfeeding is rude or bad or shameful- please understand. Its not that you are breastfeeding- its the wham!- I'm going to pull my tit out without the thought to others- that is rude. When woman have babies, all thoughts of decorum goes out the window? It should not. Yes, we in America have a "puritanical" double standard- it is what it is. We are a society that changes slowly on some things and faster on others.
You "forcing" me will make it harder for me to see your side. Sometimes a gentle touch will get the point across. I'm happy to compromise. Feed baby, just don't be rude about it.
But see, I'm saying that nothing done within the context of breastfeeding is rude - and that includes pulling out a tit. (Now, if it was used to squirt you in the eye with milk from across the room, that would be rude! ) You say that it's not that breastfeeding is rude per se, and I see that you mean that. I'm just saying that when you make any part of the process shameful - like the whipping out the tit part - that casts negativity on the whole of the experience.
Regarding getting the point across to the "other side," I hadn't yet thought about who the other side really is that we (and I use the term "we" loosely since I don't have children) are desiring to convince. Maybe it's not you, who need to be compromised with in order to not be defensive. Maybe the point is to desensitize the kids. We don't even have to argue with them - just do it more and more and by the time they get older they'll be used to it and the argument will be over.
(I'm actually not entirely sure I'm talking about the same thing you're talking about right now though. )
These aren't beliefs, they are facts. The vast majority of the world population raise their babies in arms. They co-sleep and have family beds. It's definitely not the norm in western culture, but from Asia to Zimbabwe, from Africa to the Middle East, this is the normal and expected way to parent.
OK, first and foremost, there is no ONE correct way to raise a child. Secondly, if you want to start looking at other cultures, you have to address a lot of factors. For example, many of the places you have mentioned are third world countries or developing countries, where sanitation is not anywhere near what we have in westernised cultures. Thus feeding a baby is something only a mother can do. In addition, due to the hand- to-mouth existence many of these women live in, there is no other option than to have a baby strapped to them whilst they work. Of course you then have issues such as religion which may dictate that women stay at home and look after children exclusively. Bed sharing may in some cases come down to a simple necessity due to lack of rooms or beds, or heating.
Allowing an infant unlimited and unobstructed access to its mother and her breasts, for food, comfort, security actually helps to develop a very secure, independent child because they have made the separation from their mother when they were ready to. Contrary to what people might believe, and yes it's a belief , attachment parents encourages independence rather than prevents it. The research and studies are available if you want to find it.
And there’s just as much evidence to suggest that what you have said is in fact not the case, the research is available for you too to find.
From personal experience, I used attachment parenting with my youngest child, I wish I had with all of them. He slept in our bed until he was five, when he decided himself that he wanted a big boy bed.
:eek: I don’t want to be rude, but is a five year old in your bed not a bit of a passion killer?!
I breastfed him for two and a half years, at which point he weaned himself. There was no trauma involved, no having to deny him, he simply wasn't interested anymore. He's 12 years old now, and probably my most independent and resilient child. He's confident, compassionate, loving, funny, extremely sensitive to other peoples feelings and moods. Quite the contrast to the view that children who are parented like this are insecure, introverted, dependent and somehow damaged by the process.
No matter how much you try to influence a child’s upbringing, there is no way you can control how their personality will develop. Studies have shown that a child’s peers are more influential than their parents anyway. One case looked at children whose parents were immigrants. The children continued to speak their parent’s language at home, yet were still able to learn the new language and speak it without an accent, whilst their parent’s retained their accents.
I also think there are some serious implications from the attachment method in terms of women’s rights. Given that women have struggled for years to be seen as equals in society, I’m not sure it’s right that a movement of women are implying other women are bad mothers if they HAVE to go out to work (or heaven forbid CHOOSE) to support their children. It must be a real ‘privilege’ to be able to stay at home and be at the beck and call of their child all day.
At this point I would say it's the law, on behalf of the culture, that defines how discreet we must be. Some societies have laws that women must cover their ankles. Some allow women to be completely naked. Ours allows us to bare our breasts in public for the sake of breastfeeding, but not otherwise.
So why are we even having this argument?
The women at H&M were merely trying to educate the public about the rights, afforded them by law, of breastfeeding women.
I take it you can't give an example of posts that say "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male" because there aren't such posts in this thread.
This is a clear example of what bothers me. Talk about a double standard, indeed. Men have been vilified in this very thread and none of the feminists who are so concerned with sexism have said a word about it, instead they inforced it and tried to justify it. You can make generalization about men, call them all pigs, weak, unable to see breasts as anything other than something sexual... It's all tolerated. It's this hypocrisy that bothers me. It especially bothers me because this hateful language was deemed hateful and sexist by them, not me. I said there was nothing sexist about the word bitch (only in an explicit sexist context) and everyone was against me. Now, men are called pigs, weak... and it's all justified, all the ladies share a few laughs, add a few smileys... And it's not sexist. I remember that the word 'bitch' was sexist in about any possible context whatsoever... I guess there really is a double standard, eh?
I never ever in this entire thread or in my entire life said that women should be forced to cover their breast or feed their children discretely. Never.
I talked about mutual respect. I hope that woman can take other people's feelings into consideration when they breastfeed, and like I have said quite a few times in this thread, it seems many women do. If you don't, I certainly won't complain and I certainly won't do anything about it. I don't give a damn. You can walk around naked, breastfeed your baby next to me... I don't care, I'll look away. I even think most women wouldn't like it if I started staring.
But it appears it's only the feminists such as scb who don't give a fuck about other people. This is a war against women and should be fought. There's no room for compromise (the little discretion most people, men and women, seem to agree on). But hey, it's your every right.
If you think society encourages flashing your tits in public, go into a H&M topless. Society doesn't encourage that at all. Remember nipple gate? :rolleyes: It was a freakin' national scandal in the US.
And in case you were wondering, Jeanie, I haven't formed any negative opinions about you. But if I'm perfectly honest I'm disappointed that you have judged me so quickly.
If you read my posts, you'll see that I never uttered a negative word about breastfeeding, never said there should be rules about when or where it is approriate and under what conditions. What I did do, however, was disagree with some of the arguments made for why breastfeeding should be allowed.
And as usual I've been punished for it by a group of female posters.
So, I'm done with this thread and quite frankly I'm disappointed in a lot of posters of whom I always considered to be respectful, polite and reasonable.
Whoa, whoa, whoa – back the fuck up! Why are you trying to start shit with me? I have purposely avoided having any conversation with you whatsoever in this thread. (And, believe me, it hasn’t been easy!) But you’re going to spout off about respect and then say I don’t give a fuck about other people? Real mature. :rolleyes: (And for the record, I've never called men weak or pigs or any such thing. I don't believe I've talked at all about - or even to - men in this thread.)
It sounds to me like you’re just still all hung up on that thread about the word “bitch” being sexist. You got your feelings hurt and you can’t get over it. Talk about being defensive! Now half of what you say is about “sexism” against men and male-bashing feminazis. It seems like you basically just hate feminists. But I’ll forgive you because you’re a young man and you obviously don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
But if you want to continue some past discussion about sexism, feminism, etc. maybe you should start a different thread for that.
I could only make it through the first 10 pages or so...but from what I see the only folks that were against breastfeeding in public were either men or women without children.
1. If you breastfed your child, you would understand that they want it when they're hungry and they don't care where they are.
2. If a breastfeeding mother hears a child cry - their breasts will react - and start to leak milk. It is our bodies natural reaction. I'd much rather a mother step aside and feed their child than make them listen to a screaming child while leaking all over themselves.
3. I have breastfed in public - most of the time I would try to have some type of cover, but if I didn't have one, the kid got fed anyway. It does not have to be a big production, but if I ever had someone tell me that I am not allowed to breastfeed in a public space, I would do it anyway and complain to the management after my child was fed.
I'm not going to get into the other arguments - they're just silly.
Whoa, whoa, whoa – back the fuck up! Why are you trying to start shit with me? I have purposely avoided having any conversation with you whatsoever in this thread. (And, believe me, it hasn’t been easy!) But you’re going to spout off about respect and then say I don’t give a fuck about other people? Real mature. :rolleyes: (And for the record, I've never called men weak or pigs or any such thing. I don't believe I've talked at all about - or even to - men in this thread.)
It sounds to me like you’re just still all hung up on that thread about the word “bitch” being sexist. You got your feelings hurt and you can’t get over it. Talk about being defensive! Now half of what you say is about “sexism” against men and male-bashing feminazis. It seems like you basically just hate feminists. But I’ll forgive you because you’re a young man and you obviously don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
But if you want to continue some past discussion about sexism, feminism, etc. maybe you should start a different thread for that.
collin is a man
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
I could only make it through the first 10 pages or so...but from what I see the only folks that were against breastfeeding in public were either men or women without children.
1. If you breastfed your child, you would understand that they want it when they're hungry and they don't care where they are.
2. If a breastfeeding mother hears a child cry - their breasts will react - and start to leak milk. It is our bodies natural reaction. I'd much rather a mother step aside and feed their child than make them listen to a screaming child while leaking all over themselves.
3. I have breastfed in public - most of the time I would try to have some type of cover, but if I didn't have one, the kid got fed anyway. It does not have to be a big production, but if I ever had someone tell me that I am not allowed to breastfeed in a public space, I would do it anyway and complain to the management after my child was fed.
I'm not going to get into the other arguments - they're just silly.
Yep, I think it should be done privately and sadly -- I'm childless, like you posted. However, I do believe that when a mom was bf'ing her baby publicly here, from what I saw, they put a blankie over the baby's head and I was wondering how they could breathe.
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Yep, I think it should be done privately and sadly -- I'm childless, like you posted. However, I do believe that when a mom was bf'ing her baby publicly here, from what I saw, they put a blankie over the baby's head and I was wondering how they could breathe.
unless the blankie was made out of plastic bags i dont think it would be a serious problem... i slept with a blanket over my head til i was like 8 years old cause i was incredibly afraid of the dark
unless the blankie was made out of plastic bags i dont think it would be a serious problem... i slept with a blanket over my head til i was like 8 years old cause i was incredibly afraid of the dark
I get scared when my husband puts the covers over his head when he's cold.
I yell at him that he's going to smother and I'll get charged with murder!
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Whoa, whoa, whoa – back the fuck up! Why are you trying to start shit with me? I have purposely avoided having any conversation with you whatsoever in this thread. (And, believe me, it hasn’t been easy!) But you’re going to spout off about respect and then say I don’t give a fuck about other people? Real mature. :rolleyes: (And for the record, I've never called men weak or pigs or any such thing. I don't believe I've talked at all about - or even to - men in this thread.)
I'm not trying to start shit with you.
I believe it was Cate who said, perhaps jokingly, that the problem was men thinking that breasts should only serve one purpose, and that's their enjoyment. I believe you said that hits the nail on the head or something like that.
I thought negative generalisations about gender was not okay. I thought it was one of those things feminists fought. I guess it's okay when you do it about men, though.
I read several articles about this protest, not just the one on this site and I remember one article mentioning the fathers that joined their wives in their protest. No one mentioned them here, you (generic) were to busy blaming and vilifying men for turning breasts into sex objects and being so weak that they cannot accept that breasts are meant to provide nutrition to children.
It sounds to me like you’re just still all hung up on that thread about the word “bitch” being sexist. You got your feelings hurt and you can’t get over it. Talk about being defensive!
Nope. I pointed out that what was deemed sexist then is completely ignored in this thread, it's tolerated and it's considered funny. The only difference with that bitch thread is that this time it's men being vilified and insulted... accusations specifically linked to gender, nonetheless!
To me, it's cool. I don't care. My stance hasn't changed since that thread... but it appears you are rather lenient in your judgement, or maybe you judge with a double standard?
you obviously don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
Care to elucidate? I basically agree with all the women here about breastfeeding. We might not agree about why it's okay... but that's details, imo. The important part is that it should be allow and no big deal. It must be hard for you to acknowledge the fact that I'm your side on this issue... At least, on the side of the women who support breastfeeding. I believe in a little discretion.
unless the blankie was made out of plastic bags i dont think it would be a serious problem... i slept with a blanket over my head til i was like 8 years old cause i was incredibly afraid of the dark
Comments
Yeah, I know how you feel. I have to tone down my thoughts and opinions and choose my words carefully all the time because they're just too complex for some blokes to understand.
Agreed. But who is defining said discretion? I mean if I accidentally don't cover myself properly and you inadvertently cop an eyeful what would the appropriate punishment be do you think? Boil me in oil? Whithering looks? Aghast outcry? I mean frankly I've had a gutful of people oggling my boobs over the years, I'm hardly gonna wiggle em around and give a free burlesque show before I feed but that's me. If someone else is more comfortable exposing more of themselves that's their business. What I wanna know is how does one juggle the baby, check and double check all angles to make sure no one can see, wrestle with the bra, get the baby latched on and always 100% of the time avoid upsetting people that if they don't wanna see shouldn't be looking in the first place? Complicated. Glad I've never had to worry about it. Hats off to the poor buggers that have.
Well I wasn't aware that I was disrespecting you or vice versa.
haha! If women don't have a sense of humour explain how we get pregnant and give birth in the first place?
Thank god you're here! :rolleyes:
Ah no, read back over the thread it's there, even blind freddy can see it. Or perhaps you've got selective vision?
Serious?
Hmmm so men don't objectify women? And supposing they do it's women's fault anyway?
Huh? I do? What are you basing that assumption on?
Did you receive withering looks from folks that didn't approve of your outfit? You ain't really lived till that's happened!
Well adult males unaccompanied by a child tend to be vilified in parks where children play these days even if they have clothing on but a guy doesn't breast feed so I'm not really sure why he'd need to be naked in the park anyway. I have seen topless blokes in the park where children play though. Nobody seems to get up in arms about it here.
Of course you do!
Oh no need! I'm well aware that as a woman my opinion is redundant most of the time anyway.
I understand humour just fine, you're the one not getting it.
Ok
If you think so but I'm a bit disappointed that you are unable to grasp the parallels. Or should we not consider the words and deeds of men at all in this debate?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
... I think a little discretion is in order. We live in a society and we are quite happy when people are discreet about certain things. I don't see why breastfeeding should be any different. And it looks to me many (breastfeeding) women feel the same way.
... I think the whole aspect of breasts being regarded as sexual in this discussion is ridiculous. There are both men and women who are uncomfortable around breastfeeding mothers. Not just men. That's one thing.
Breasts are regarded as sexual by both men and women. Again, not just by men. There are plenty of men who are not uncomfortable around breastfeeding women too, the fathers for example.
... this is hardly a feminist issue. This is not about the objectification of women. But, while we're on the subject, women have choices. They can go into an H&M store and breastfeed and they can go into an H&M store and by clothes they like. They don't have to wear provocative clothes. No one is forcing them. Stop pretending that the male world is demanding these women to dress like that or in other words, stop being sexist. Also, supporting the notion that men are not able to regard breasts as anything other than sexual is also sexist.
... Breastfeeding is indeed natural. Many things are. You may have noticed that breastfeeding is legal. A lot of other natural things are illegal. So before bashing the male chauvenist power-structure, perhaps you could utter a thank you for that little fact.
I also think that something being "natural" is not a good argument to allow something. Any rational person will come to that conclusion. Someone posted a link to a story of a bitch feeding little tiger cubs. Both these animals do a lot of natural things that just aren't acceptable if humans do them.
...
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Women should and do have a right to breastfeed their child whenever and wherever they choose. Why people get so upset as seeing a mother nursing a child is beyond me. I do not understand this at all. Hell, we have teenagers walking around bearing much more than a mother who is nursing a child. There are fat people wearing skin tight clothes with boobs and belly hanging out and no one really says anything to them. Get a life people!
Breastfeeding is perfectly normal and naturual. It does not bother anyone. I don't see what the big deal is. When a child gets hungry, a mother must feed the baby! Breastfeeding is the best thing for a baby.
My wife ws a bit self conscious about nursing our daughter in public, but now she does not even think about it. No one has been rude to her, but if they were, they would certainly get an earful.
Well said.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
And that after I explained mutual so clearly.
No punishment. By saying accidentally I assume you'd normally cover your boob = your end of the mutual respect. Covering your boobs when you decide to breastfeed on a plane or in a crowded store.
Other side of the mutual respect is accepting breastfeeding happens and there is no punishment when you see a woman's boob. That it's legal, normal and they have every right to do so even if you disagree.
edit: Furthermore, a look or a cry does not infringe on your right to breastfeed. These people have every right to express their opinion, it's called freedom of speech.
Sorry - but you are wrong. Sure, practical purposes that's their only "function." But you know as well as I do that that is a load of shit. Tits, nipples especially have loads of nerves that work well with SEX. And you have to have SEX before you can breast feed, right? So, they do start as sex boobs before they turn into baby feeding boobs.
Are you talking about this? Is this the post that says "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male."
If not, I don't know what you are talking about.
If it is... then you are wrong. And it has been proven that the waist and the size of the breasts help men, subconsciously, with their partner choice. This has to do with furtility. So, the breast and the female figure in general do play a role even before the woman uses her breasts to feed. The primary function is to feed. Another function is to help get a woman pregnant. Plenty scientific studies about that. It's all part of a bigger process, a natural instinct to reproduce and finding a suitable partner to do this with.
Again if it's not this post you were refering to please show me the posts where people say the following:
1) breasts sole purpose is the sexual gratification of the male of the species, 2) breasts should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male.
I tried to find them but couldn't. Since they are so apparent, I'm sure you'll help me out.
That's not what I said.
I don't see why he'd have to be dressed anyway to be anyware.
I can't believe you are serious? You are actually comparing what black people went through with this?
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No one's been rude?
I thought for sure they'd try to lynch her. You mean no one has put a burning cross on your lawn? People don't throw bricks threw your windows? Not even hateful graffiti slogan on your house?
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haha. Nope. However, she has a friend who was treated badly when breastfeeding her infant in the mall. Someone told her it was not appropriate.
This calls for a million breastfeeding women march.
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Collin I cannot see the point to continuing this. You are obviously very concerned about what you think I've said and you're wrong. You think I'm wrong so what's the point? As far as I'm concerned women are vilified in this society enough without having to also add a whole new set of rules and regulations in order not to offend some people. If women want to breast feed in public then they are legally allowed to do so and I fully support them. If that means some people are uncomfortable well **shrug** I feel sorry for them that they can't just get over it and worry about things that really matter but their discomfort is of secondary concern and less importance as far as I'm concerned. Accidently seeing a boob is not that big of a deal in the general scheme of things. What I'll never understand is a society that places expectation on a woman to behave modestly and in consideration of people who may be offended should she breast feed in public but there is not an equal expectation of modesty on women when revealing their breasts for sexual gratification and titivation in public. It's a seriously fucked up world when Girls Gone Wild are applauded for flashing their breasts in public and are encouraged to do so no strings attached but a woman attempting to feed her child is expected to behave with modesty and in consideration and mutual respect of those around her. To me if Girls Gone Wild, Hooters, topless sunbathers, fashion models, actresses, *insert whatever topless female you like here* can and do show their breasts in public on a daily basis then breast feeding mothers should also be of no concern. It's a piss poor double standard as far as I can see. They're just tits. Why all the hoo ha? So I'll leave you to continue assuming that I'm a rampant feminazi or whatever other negative opinions you've incorrectly formed and I'll continue with my growing negative impressions of you. It's not that big of a deal. G'night.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
When I was nursing, I could never figure out the blanket thing. It always seemed to me that it would have suffocated my child or made him very uncomfortable (I was nursing during the summer), so I never used it. Was I modest? Was I discreet? Thing is, I had no desire to show anyone my goodies. I just wanted to feed my child. I guess if a woman exposes herself for the sake of doing it, we can go after her in the same way in which we would if she flashed people on the street, regardless of the fact she has a baby with her or not?
Now don't ask me how you tell the difference, cause as far as I am concerned I would not go after the flashing lady either.
I take it you can't give an example of posts that say "that the female breast is only in existence for the sexual gratification of the male of the species and should only be seen in public for the purposes of the sexual gratification of the male" because there aren't such posts in this thread.
This is a clear example of what bothers me. Talk about a double standard, indeed. Men have been vilified in this very thread and none of the feminists who are so concerned with sexism have said a word about it, instead they inforced it and tried to justify it. You can make generalization about men, call them all pigs, weak, unable to see breasts as anything other than something sexual... It's all tolerated. It's this hypocrisy that bothers me. It especially bothers me because this hateful language was deemed hateful and sexist by them, not me. I said there was nothing sexist about the word bitch (only in an explicit sexist context) and everyone was against me. Now, men are called pigs, weak... and it's all justified, all the ladies share a few laughs, add a few smileys... And it's not sexist. I remember that the word 'bitch' was sexist in about any possible context whatsoever... I guess there really is a double standard, eh?
I never ever in this entire thread or in my entire life said that women should be forced to cover their breast or feed their children discretely. Never.
I talked about mutual respect. I hope that woman can take other people's feelings into consideration when they breastfeed, and like I have said quite a few times in this thread, it seems many women do. If you don't, I certainly won't complain and I certainly won't do anything about it. I don't give a damn. You can walk around naked, breastfeed your baby next to me... I don't care, I'll look away. I even think most women wouldn't like it if I started staring.
But it appears it's only the feminists such as scb who don't give a fuck about other people. This is a war against women and should be fought. There's no room for compromise (the little discretion most people, men and women, seem to agree on). But hey, it's your every right.
If you think society encourages flashing your tits in public, go into a H&M topless. Society doesn't encourage that at all. Remember nipple gate? :rolleyes: It was a freakin' national scandal in the US.
And in case you were wondering, Jeanie, I haven't formed any negative opinions about you. But if I'm perfectly honest I'm disappointed that you have judged me so quickly.
If you read my posts, you'll see that I never uttered a negative word about breastfeeding, never said there should be rules about when or where it is approriate and under what conditions. What I did do, however, was disagree with some of the arguments made for why breastfeeding should be allowed.
And as usual I've been punished for it by a group of female posters.
So, I'm done with this thread and quite frankly I'm disappointed in a lot of posters of whom I always considered to be respectful, polite and reasonable.
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EXACTLY!
I do agree that most women are discreet when they breast feed but for the purpose of this particular thread, I still don’t agree that this woman absolutely HAD to feed her baby that very second in the middle of H&M. Just to pick up on your point, no I wouldn’t eat my lunch in a toilet, but similarly I wouldn’t eat my lunch in the middle of H&M either. I would do what the majority of people would do and go outside and find a slightly less busy and more appropriate place to eat. I can’t imagine somewhere as busy and chaotic as a shop would be a pleasant atmosphere for a baby to feed anyway, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I’m not sure it’s necessarily a case of over ‘sexualisation’ that reduced the amount of women breast feeding, I’m no historian so I couldn’t answer that one, but I think there would also be a case to argue that as women’s rights were brought to the fore front and more and more women went out to work, more solutions to the baby feeding situation were created. Certainly breasts did become more ‘sexualised’, although rather ironically the current ‘ideal’ body type for a female is super skinny with barely any breasts.
Sorry but from everything I’ve read the breast is predominantly made up of fat and blood vessels, there are plenty of diagrams and articles to support that, just do a google search (I’ll do it for you if you can’t be bothered!). This is further supported by the fact that when women gain or lose weight the breasts get larger or smaller.
That’s just a theory, curiously I found this argument was mostly perpetuated on pro-breast feeding/ attachment parenting sites. Biologists have suggested quite the opposite, that larger breasts can often smother the child – and nobody said a ‘completely flat chest’ obviously there would be a small amount of protrusion due to the mammary glands and supporting structures. Here’s a brief article I just found which gives you the gist of the argument. http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0067.htm
But see, I'm saying that nothing done within the context of breastfeeding is rude - and that includes pulling out a tit. (Now, if it was used to squirt you in the eye with milk from across the room, that would be rude!
Regarding getting the point across to the "other side," I hadn't yet thought about who the other side really is that we (and I use the term "we" loosely since I don't have children) are desiring to convince. Maybe it's not you, who need to be compromised with in order to not be defensive. Maybe the point is to desensitize the kids. We don't even have to argue with them - just do it more and more and by the time they get older they'll be used to it and the argument will be over.
(I'm actually not entirely sure I'm talking about the same thing you're talking about right now though.
OK, first and foremost, there is no ONE correct way to raise a child. Secondly, if you want to start looking at other cultures, you have to address a lot of factors. For example, many of the places you have mentioned are third world countries or developing countries, where sanitation is not anywhere near what we have in westernised cultures. Thus feeding a baby is something only a mother can do. In addition, due to the hand- to-mouth existence many of these women live in, there is no other option than to have a baby strapped to them whilst they work. Of course you then have issues such as religion which may dictate that women stay at home and look after children exclusively. Bed sharing may in some cases come down to a simple necessity due to lack of rooms or beds, or heating.
And there’s just as much evidence to suggest that what you have said is in fact not the case, the research is available for you too to find.
:eek: I don’t want to be rude, but is a five year old in your bed not a bit of a passion killer?!
No matter how much you try to influence a child’s upbringing, there is no way you can control how their personality will develop. Studies have shown that a child’s peers are more influential than their parents anyway. One case looked at children whose parents were immigrants. The children continued to speak their parent’s language at home, yet were still able to learn the new language and speak it without an accent, whilst their parent’s retained their accents.
I also think there are some serious implications from the attachment method in terms of women’s rights. Given that women have struggled for years to be seen as equals in society, I’m not sure it’s right that a movement of women are implying other women are bad mothers if they HAVE to go out to work (or heaven forbid CHOOSE) to support their children. It must be a real ‘privilege’ to be able to stay at home and be at the beck and call of their child all day.
At this point I would say it's the law, on behalf of the culture, that defines how discreet we must be. Some societies have laws that women must cover their ankles. Some allow women to be completely naked. Ours allows us to bare our breasts in public for the sake of breastfeeding, but not otherwise.
So why are we even having this argument?
The women at H&M were merely trying to educate the public about the rights, afforded them by law, of breastfeeding women.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
were all just jealous that we cant suck boobs in public
http://seanbriceart.com/
Whoa, whoa, whoa – back the fuck up! Why are you trying to start shit with me? I have purposely avoided having any conversation with you whatsoever in this thread. (And, believe me, it hasn’t been easy!) But you’re going to spout off about respect and then say I don’t give a fuck about other people? Real mature. :rolleyes: (And for the record, I've never called men weak or pigs or any such thing. I don't believe I've talked at all about - or even to - men in this thread.)
It sounds to me like you’re just still all hung up on that thread about the word “bitch” being sexist. You got your feelings hurt and you can’t get over it. Talk about being defensive! Now half of what you say is about “sexism” against men and male-bashing feminazis. It seems like you basically just hate feminists. But I’ll forgive you because you’re a young man and you obviously don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about when it comes to most of these issues.
But if you want to continue some past discussion about sexism, feminism, etc. maybe you should start a different thread for that.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
1. If you breastfed your child, you would understand that they want it when they're hungry and they don't care where they are.
2. If a breastfeeding mother hears a child cry - their breasts will react - and start to leak milk. It is our bodies natural reaction. I'd much rather a mother step aside and feed their child than make them listen to a screaming child while leaking all over themselves.
3. I have breastfed in public - most of the time I would try to have some type of cover, but if I didn't have one, the kid got fed anyway. It does not have to be a big production, but if I ever had someone tell me that I am not allowed to breastfeed in a public space, I would do it anyway and complain to the management after my child was fed.
I'm not going to get into the other arguments - they're just silly.
collin is a man
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Yep, I think it should be done privately and sadly -- I'm childless, like you posted. However, I do believe that when a mom was bf'ing her baby publicly here, from what I saw, they put a blankie over the baby's head and I was wondering how they could breathe.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
http://seanbriceart.com/
I get scared when my husband puts the covers over his head when he's cold.
I yell at him that he's going to smother and I'll get charged with murder!
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
I'm not trying to start shit with you.
I believe it was Cate who said, perhaps jokingly, that the problem was men thinking that breasts should only serve one purpose, and that's their enjoyment. I believe you said that hits the nail on the head or something like that.
edit:
I thought negative generalisations about gender was not okay. I thought it was one of those things feminists fought. I guess it's okay when you do it about men, though.
I read several articles about this protest, not just the one on this site and I remember one article mentioning the fathers that joined their wives in their protest. No one mentioned them here, you (generic) were to busy blaming and vilifying men for turning breasts into sex objects and being so weak that they cannot accept that breasts are meant to provide nutrition to children.
Nope. I pointed out that what was deemed sexist then is completely ignored in this thread, it's tolerated and it's considered funny. The only difference with that bitch thread is that this time it's men being vilified and insulted... accusations specifically linked to gender, nonetheless!
To me, it's cool. I don't care. My stance hasn't changed since that thread... but it appears you are rather lenient in your judgement, or maybe you judge with a double standard?
Care to elucidate? I basically agree with all the women here about breastfeeding. We might not agree about why it's okay... but that's details, imo. The important part is that it should be allow and no big deal. It must be hard for you to acknowledge the fact that I'm your side on this issue... At least, on the side of the women who support breastfeeding. I believe in a little discretion.
So, what is it that I don't know a fuck about?
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Your point being...
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And the blanket made it less dark?
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Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me