my Niece got EXPELLED!

roar

BlackCorduroy wrote:

Last week an attorney came to my journalism class and was giving us a lecture about the first amendment and freedom of speech..

He told us about how a man burned the American Flag at the Republican National Convention a while ago and was arrested. The case was taken to the supreme court and they ruled that speech is still protected even if the general public finds it offensive.

You'll probably learn about Tinker vs. Des Moines soon:
"Student speech may be suppressed only if the speech: (1) materially and substantially interferes with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the schools; (2) invades or collides with the rights of others; (3) is vulgar, lewd, obscene, or plainly offensive; or (4) is school-sponsored. Additionally, as with free speech rights in any context, school officials may impose reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on student speech."

eyedclaar

BlackCorduroy wrote:

ah, yeah you're right, nevermind. still, the punishment is rediculous

I totally agree just in case that was lost on anyone despite me repeating it over and over again. There should have been no punishment in this situation.

For the record, I am the least PC person you will ever meet when I'm not wearing my professional HR hat.

BlackCorduroy

roar wrote:

You'll probably learn about Tinker vs. Des Moines soon:
"Student speech may be suppressed only if the speech: (1) materially and substantially interferes with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the schools; (2) invades or collides with the rights of others; (3) is vulgar, lewd, obscene, or plainly offensive; or (4) is school-sponsored. Additionally, as with free speech rights in any context, school officials may impose reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on student speech."

yeah i know, i was wrong. it gets kinda tricky

failedpersephone

well...I totally didn't intend for this to be a discourse on racism...also, I did talk to my niece about the joke. I wanted to make sure that she understood that there are people out there that really DO have PTSS over war (not just Viet Nam) I think that the school over reacted, I personally found it hilarious - but then again I find a lot of things in this world hilarious. I don't think it is possible to truly offend me with WORDS when ACTIONS that take place in this world are so offensive...it is offensive to me that we allow people to starve to death because of a difference in political beliefs...it is OFFENSIVE to me that wealth is not more equally distributed...or even distributed based on regional wealth.

I told her that despite having cousins and Uncles that fought in this war, she had no real right to joke about another's misfortune...but to be honest my statements to her were rather hollow. I don't really feel that THIS case illustrated that. considering as she was doing a joke reenactment of classic Viet Nam war images...nothing more complex than that.

At her school there were 4 kids dressed as "borat" for Halloween...so, it is really strange to me that they would single her out. (While I found Borat funny, I also could see how that was a racist caricature...that was pointing out racist caricatures)

Once again, the issue that the school had was the insensitivity to Servicemen & women...

I met with the Superintendent and three of the school board trustees, and the counselor...she has a 3 day in-school detention (she has to come to school but stay in the main office) while on detention she must write a paper on the repercussions of the viet nam war on 1. the homefront, 2 the Veitnamese survivors, 3 the veterans.

she is allowed back in to her regular classes on Wednesday. So she wont be missing the AP placement tests.

She has already written a paper on the lasting effects of the Viet Nam war on the American Conscience. it was titled "Will we ever "win" again? A Changing Homefront, the effects of the Viet Nam war on the American Public"

but I suppose this paper won't count. :rolleyes:

I would like to take this time to apologize to anyone on this thread who took offense at the joke.

And her mom is beyond angry with me...apparently this is all my influence. :rolleyes:

EvilMerlin

failedpersephone wrote:

well...I totally didn't intend for this to be a discourse on racism...also, I did talk to my niece about the joke. I wanted to make sure that she understood that there are people out there that really DO have PTSS over war (not just Viet Nam) I think that the school over reacted, I personally found it hilarious - but then again I find a lot of things in this world hilarious. I don't think it is possible to truly offend me with WORDS when ACTIONS that take place in this world are so offensive...it is offensive to me that we allow people to starve to death because of a difference in political beliefs...it is OFFENSIVE to me that wealth is not more equally distributed...or even distributed based on regional wealth.

I told her that despite having cousins and Uncles that fought in this war, she had no real right to joke about another's misfortune...but to be honest my statements to her were rather hollow. I don't really feel that THIS case illustrated that. considering as she was doing a joke reenactment of classic Viet Nam war images...nothing more complex than that.

At her school there were 4 kids dressed as "borat" for Halloween...so, it is really strange to me that they would single her out. (While I found Borat funny, I also could see how that was a racist caricature...that was pointing out racist caricatures)

Once again, the issue that the school had was the insensitivity to Servicemen & women...

I met with the Superintendent and three of the school board trustees, and the counselor...she has a 3 day in-school detention (she has to come to school but stay in the main office) while on detention she must write a paper on the repercussions of the viet nam war on 1. the homefront, 2 the Veitnamese survivors, 3 the veterans.

she is allowed back in to her regular classes on Wednesday. So she wont be missing the AP placement tests.

She has already written a paper on the lasting effects of the Viet Nam war on the American Conscience. it was titled "Will we ever "win" again? A Changing Homefront, the effects of the Viet Nam war on the American Public"

but I suppose this paper won't count. :rolleyes:

I would like to take this time to apologize to anyone on this thread who took offense at the joke.

And her mom is beyond angry with me...apparently this is all my influence. :rolleyes:

Damn you for having a sense of humor!

All jokes aside, I'm glad it's all cleared up now to the point that she won't mess with any of her AP exams and all that jazz. In school suspension sucks though. I remember when I worked at the Jr High, I got stuck with that duty for a week. It's boring even when you're just working it!

norm

failedpersephone wrote:

And her mom is beyond angry with me...apparently this is all my influence. :rolleyes:

yeah your screwed


glad cooler heads have prevailed....

g under p

failedpersephone wrote:

She has already written a paper on the lasting effects of the Viet Nam war on the American Conscience. it was titled "Will we ever "win" again? A Changing Homefront, the effects of the Viet Nam war on the American Public"

:

I already love the title of her paper and have you read it?


Peace

failedpersephone

cutback wrote:

yeah your screwed


glad cooler heads have prevailed....

YEAH...I can't believe we came from the same loins. (btw, THAT joke NEVER goes over well)

She literally yelled at me for 23 minutes...I was afraid that she was going to hyperventilate since she didn't seem to be taking IN any air. part of her point was that my niece is very impressionable, and that EVERYTHING I do is "cool" to her...I am always the "cool" aunt...and she was trying to impress me. I guess my Sis says that she is ALWAYS trying to impress me...how she talks, dresses, movies she likes and *gasp* music.

totally don't get that logic...I wasn't sitting on the grass at school. I mean, this would have been a joke to do in our backyard to impress me...not someplace where I wasnt. duh.

She was like 'meow meow meow...it's a lot of responsibility to be such a figure to a young impressionable girl...meow meow meow..."

I am kinda surprised at myself for just totally 'taking" all of that! I was like meek...

strange...the sad thing is, I actually DO consider that my niece looks up to me...I am careful about what is projected, and I try really hard to be accessible to her - no question is ever turned down...no shame.

EvilMerlin

failedpersephone wrote:

YEAH...I can't believe we came from the same loins. (btw, THAT joke NEVER goes over well)

She literally yelled at me for 23 minutes...I was afraid that she was going to hyperventilate since she didn't seem to be taking IN any air. part of her point was that my niece is very impressionable, and that EVERYTHING I do is "cool" to her...I am always the "cool" aunt...and she was trying to impress me. I guess my Sis says that she is ALWAYS trying to impress me...how she talks, dresses, movies she likes and *gasp* music.

totally don't get that logic...I wasn't sitting on the grass at school. I mean, this would have been a joke to do in our backyard to impress me...not someplace where I wasnt. duh.

She was like 'meow meow meow...it's a lot of responsibility to be such a figure to a young impressionable girl...meow meow meow..."

I am kinda surprised at myself for just totally 'taking" all of that! I was like meek...

strange...the sad thing is, I actually DO consider that my niece looks up to me...I am careful about what is projected, and I try really hard to be accessible to her - no question is ever turned down...no shame.

I got that talk from my sister once, well a couple times. Ugh, I hate it. I used to pick up my nephew from school 2 days a week. And one day a kid was really messing with him and hit him with a pine cone, so he fought the kid and beat him up.

Long story short, she said because I was picking him up, he fought the kid to impress me while I was going over there. I was walking up and saw the kid hit him with the pine cone and he ran over and punched him. And that's how the fight took off. Nothing to it.

However if my sister was picking him up, there's no way any of that would have happened. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. He fought the kid cause he knew I'd see it, but if I wasn't there, he wouldn't have provoked the kid to start a fight with him, ramble ramble ramble.

mookie9999

At least she didn't say "GET SOME! GET SOME!!" followed by:

Private Joker: Any women or children?
Door Gunner: Sometimes!
Private Joker: How can you shoot women or children?
Door Gunner: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?

eyedclaar

mookie9999 wrote:

At least she didn't say "GET SOME! GET SOME!!" followed by:

Private Joker: Any women or children?
Door Gunner: Sometimes!
Private Joker: How can you shoot women or children?
Door Gunner: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?

To quote Homer (the dumb one):

Why me laugh?

Vedderlution_Baby

Was probably seen by someone who has first hand experience with PTSD and got really pissed off at it.

EquallyWorthless

WildChildRose wrote:

Um what the heck kind of joke is that? It's extremely racist. How old is she? I dunno if the punishment is appropriate but what she said is really out of line IMO.

charlie is a slang for enemy there is nothing racist about it

"viet cong" ''VC'' "victor charlie" ''charlie"

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Maybe she really fought in nam?

eh eh?

the wolf

eyedclaar wrote:

Damn, I hate coming down on the side of the politally correct but like I've said before I work in HR and civil rights. This is what I do. I don't think you are in a position to judge whether or not a Vietnamese person would in fact find the term "Charlie" offensive. That is for the race being labeled/named to decide, not you. So, while you think it's really, really, funny - try putting yourself in their shoes for a second.

Like I already said, expulsion is a complete overreaction but the school does need to be aware of sensitvity issues.

but your wrong here, Charlie reffers to a soilder in the Viet Cong. has nothing to do with their race. the vietnamese called our airforce, soilders "round eyes" which does in fact reffer to our race. i hope you can see the difference between the two.

this is way different.

Heineken Helen

lukin2006 wrote:

Where I work we were forced to take a course on harassment, and we were told that if we felt like someone has said something offensive we first must tell them that what they said was offensive, before work or anyone else would even look at it, that seems reasonable. But as far as I'm concerned people take everything said way to serious.

that is a very good stance to take... very reasonable. And yep, people DO take everything way too seriously.

Heineken Helen

eyedclaar wrote:

So, if there were no black people around, the kids could run around shouting "nigger" at the top of their lungs?

Yip . You behave according to your surroundings... I've a filthy mouth on me but I don't swear in church or in front of my boyfriends mother... cos that's just what you do. However, whatever I want to say in front of my friends or in my house should be completely legal, people can't even mimic accents anymore cos it's 'racist' what about actors? Just cos one person takes offense to something that isnt' even about THEM... well that's freedom of speech gone right down the drain... besides, wasn't the reason that she offended the troops... NOT the Vietnamese. How does that one work?

Heineken Helen

smithnic wrote:

That's really not funny...
I don't care that the school didn't like it, and someone got suspended, whatever, the real issue here is the complete lack of anything funny in her statement. It's just not funny. Why would anyone laugh?

cos it's fucking hilarious... the kid was imitating an episode of south park or platoon or whatever! She should take acting classes perhaps. Fuck school, maybe that's where her future is.

Heineken Helen

MrSmith wrote:

I dont understand where you are coming from saying that a person can decide something is offensive and it automatically is. There has to be some reasonable degree of insult meant.

Very well said... pretty much sums up MY problem with political correctness.

Heineken Helen

g under p wrote:

Let's say someone from Afghanistan made similar actions or made fun of the death of Pat Tillman on how he was killed by friendly fire and our gov't covered it up. Even though may have been comical I would've taken offense to it. I'm not sure how you would but I certainly would and would've wanted her reprimanded but not to the extent of expulsion.

If Pat Tillman were Irish, there would have been jokes flying around within minutes... that's just how we work. No matter how much people are upset by the death of someone... Princess Diana :rolleyes: , Ken Bigley, Madeleine McCann (disappearance) it's in our nature to, rather than feel miserable or depressed over it, we have to laugh at stuff... ya know the kinda nervous laugh you might get at a funeral?