my Niece got EXPELLED!

smithnic

That's really not funny...
I don't care that the school didn't like it, and someone got suspended, whatever, the real issue here is the complete lack of anything funny in her statement. It's just not funny. Why would anyone laugh?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

eyedclaar wrote:

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure you know Vietnamese culture inside and out. I'm sure they all have fond memories of the Vietnam war and enjoy being called Charlie.

For anyone who was actually paying attention. I said, all that needed to happen was one teacher pull the kid aside and give a brief explanation as to why that isn't the most appropriate language for school. No suspensions, no expulsions, just an opportunity to educate...

For the record, I'm sure most of you white folks can't imagine why anyone would have trouble with the term "redskin". Hell, we have a professional football team with the same same. I'm part cherokee, do I have a right to be offended with that term?

I dont understand where you are coming from saying that a person can decide something is offensive and it automatically is. There has to be some reasonable degree of insult meant. you have the right to be offended by the color purple for all i care. what you dont have the right to do is tell other people they cant wear purple because it offends you.

No one was calling anyone Charlie! It was a kid saying something from a movie or an old war quote, and is completely race neutral, regardless of someone saying it is. If someone wants to make it a point to call all Vietnamese "charlie", i suppose that could be maybe be offensive (or at least irritating), sure. Almost any word can conceivably be used to offend someone if one means offense by it.

I dont think the kid should have even gotten a talking to. it wasnt innappropriate at all. it was a completely race neutral comment, and anyone with common sense would recognize that, regardless of their race.

FinsburyParkCarrots

That was a funny joke. I don't care. I would have put that kid up for a talent contest.

smithnic

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

That was a funny joke. I don't care. I would have put that kid up for a talent contest.

really? you honestly think it was THAT funny??
I pity your sense of humor

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

smithnic wrote:

really? you honestly think it was THAT funny??
I pity your sense of humor

it would be pretty funny if a 15 year old girl started pretending she was having nam flashbacks. I suppose it would depend on the acting...

you had to be there.

FinsburyParkCarrots

smithnic wrote:

really? you honestly think it was THAT funny??
I pity your sense of humor

I can be offensive, if you like. Now that would be a lot funnier.

eyedclaar

MrSmith wrote:

No one was calling anyone Charlie! It was a kid saying something from a movie or an old war quote, and is completely race neutral, regardless of someone saying it is. If someone wants to make it a point to call all Vietnamese "charlie", i suppose that could be maybe be offensive (or at least irritating), sure. Almost any word can conceivably be used to offend someone if one means offense by it.

you have the right to be offended by the color purple for all i care. what you dont have the right to do is tell other people they cant wear purple because it offends you. I dont understand where you are coming from saying that a person can decide something is offensive and it automatically is. There has to be some reasonable degree of insult meant.

I dont think the kid should have even gotten a talking to. it wasnt innappropriate at all. it was a completely race neutral comment, and anyone with common sense would recognize that, regardless of their race.

Again, you are using your world view and assuming it should apply to everyone. Go into a Vietnamese restaurant and start using the term "Charlie" in reference to Vietamese people. Don't actually call anyone that, just use it in everyday conversation and see how that goes over. I'm sure they will consider it a race neutral term.

FinsburyParkCarrots

eyedclaar wrote:

Again, you are using your world view and assuming it should apply to everyone. Go into a Vietnamese restaurant and start using the term "Charlie" in reference to Vietamese people. Don't actually call anyone that, just use it in everyday conversation and see how that goes over. I'm sure they will consider it a race neutral term.

Yes, but the school board is hardly made up of former Vietcong and their nearest and dearest.

FinsburyParkCarrots

And when did a guerrilla faction become a race?

By the way, what does the school board make of this? Does possession of this warrant expulsion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietcong_(computer_game)

norm

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Yes, but the school board is hardly made up of former Vietcong and their nearest and dearest.

well.....this school is in huntington beach, ca which borders on fountain valley which has a huge vietnamese population so it is possible.....but since this whole incident completely insipid and insane this doesn't really matter

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

eyedclaar wrote:

Again, you are using your world view and assuming it should apply to everyone. Go into a Vietnamese restaurant and start using the term "Charlie" in reference to Vietamese people. Don't actually call anyone that, just use it in everyday conversation and see how that goes over. I'm sure they will consider it a race neutral term.

i'm using simple historical evidence and the definition of the word itself, not some world view! its a nickname derived from army code designating Viet Cong. It doesnt matter what there culture is. the word itself isn't offensive!

FinsburyParkCarrots

cutback wrote:

well.....this school is in huntington beach, ca which borders on fountain valley which has a huge vietnamese population so it is possible.....but since this whole incident completely insipid and insane this doesn't really matter

Then it's probably all about fear of lawsuits and losing funding. The school needs Vietnamese money/students/etc., and is being hyper-paranoid, to the point of fearing that a military code term for an insurgent communist organisation might be interpreted as somehow constituting a synecdoche for a race.

norm

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Then it's probably all about lawsuits and funding, then. The school needs Vietnamese money and is being hyper-paranoid, to the point of thinking a military code term for an insurgent communist organisation somehow constitutes a synecdoche for a race.

tis true

g under p

Heineken Helen wrote:

were there any Vietnamese people THERE to BE offended? I don't think so, so it's doubtful that has anything to do with it. Education is much better than punishment. Had the school taught the students to be sensitive, they wouldn't have to punish. Besides, from what I gather, it was simply a joke with her friends. Kids should be allowed to be kids... how the fuck are they supposed to know who's going to take offense at what? Kids are much less easily offended than adults... adults tend to go too far.

It's obvious you may not have read some of my earlier post that I thought it was funny. However, that doesn't mean someone else might not think this was offensive. One does not have to be Vietnamese for this joke to be offensive to them it depends your feelings on the whole subject matter of Vietnam.

Let's say someone from Afghanistan made similar actions or made fun of the death of Pat Tillman on how he was killed by friendly fire and our gov't covered it up. Even though may have been comical I would've taken offense to it. I'm not sure how you would but I certainly would and would've wanted her reprimanded but not to the extent of expulsion.

Here's a bit more on Pat Tillman's death..Listen/Watch/Read
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/22/mary_tillman_mother_of_slain_nfl

Mary Tillman, Mother of Slain NFL Star, Afghan Vet Pat Tillman, on Her
Four-Year Quest to Cut Through Military Cover-Up of Son's Death by
Fratricide *

Pat Tillman left behind a lucrative NFL contract to enlist in the military
after 9/11. On April 22, 2004, Tillman was killed while serving in
Afghanistan. He died, the military said, while charging up a hill toward the
enemy to protect his fellow Army Rangers. But that wasn't the real story.
Tillman was killed by his own men. What's more, the military knew that
within hours but waited five weeks before admitting it. Four years and
several probes later, Pat Tillman's family, led by his mother Mary, are
still searching for answers about what really happened. Mary Tillman has
just published a book based on her review of uncensored government documents
and her four-year effort to cut through misleading official accounts of how
her son died. It's called Boots on the Ground by Dusk: My Tribute to Pat
Tillman.

Peace

eyedclaar

MrSmith wrote:

i'm using simple historical evidence and the definition of the word itself, not some world view! why would one use Charlie in referencing vietnamese people? Why would Vietnamese people be offended by it? its a nickname derived from army code designating Viet Cong. It doesnt matter what there culture is. the word itself isn't offensive!

No word is offensive. They are just letters crammed together. It is what people associate with those crammed together letters that might be offensive to some. By the way, I got it, the term "Charlie" doesn't offend you. I never said it should. However, it might offend others whether you think it should or not. Therefore, public schools should be aware that it could be a sensitive issue.

Riverrunner

Just my 2 cents: Your niece being expelled is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of!!! Something needs to be done with our current school system. I fear that we are raising children to be scared to say anything for fear of being in trouble - sort of like living in Myanmar, or the old Afghanistan, etc.

BlackCorduroy

Last week an attorney came to my journalism class and was giving us a lecture about the first amendment and freedom of speech..

He told us about how a man burned the American Flag at the Republican National Convention a while ago and was arrested. The case was taken to the supreme court and they ruled that speech is still protected even if the general public finds it offensive.

eyedclaar

BlackCorduroy wrote:

Last week an attorney came to my journalism class and was giving us a lecture about the first amendment and freedom of speech..

He told us about how a man burned the American Flag at the Republican National Convention a while ago and was arrested. The case was taken to the supreme court and they ruled that speech is still protected even if the general public finds it offensive.

That doesn't apply to public schools or employment. Free speech is not protected in those environments.

dreaminincolor

smithnic wrote:

That's really not funny...
I don't care that the school didn't like it, and someone got suspended, whatever, the real issue here is the complete lack of anything funny in her statement. It's just not funny. Why would anyone laugh?

thank you! I do not find it funny either....

people are missing the point that it is making fun of what real veterans of the vietnam war have gone through-their flashbacks their mental hurt they have PTSS...it is not a joking matter

BlackCorduroy

eyedclaar wrote:

That doesn't apply to public schools or employment. Free speech is not protected in those environments.

ah, yeah you're right, nevermind. still, the punishment is rediculous