my Niece got EXPELLED!

wolfbear

sponger wrote:

And if she ever wanted to someday join law enforcement or work in a sensitive government position, an expulsion on her record could mean the difference in whether or not she clears a background check.

One has to wonder if these school officials realize that they're basically playing with peoples' futures.

Very good point.

sponger

If things don't work out in your favor tomorrow, be sure to post the school, school district, and name of the superintendant so that Jammers can take action.

illegal pants

i can't believe you're serious.. !! i thought surely this thread's a joke :eek: we got away with so much in school which was under 10 yrs ago for me..

for me this ties in with kickoutthejams' thread about raising a child in this day and age...

what are schools gonna be like when/if i have kids, good gawd...

:eek:

rockford

the wolf wrote:

do some homework on the subject b4 you start calling a kid a racist.

It is racist. It's a label cast upon the enemy in order to dehumanize them. Labeling makes it easier to pull the trigger. This is the same reason Al Qaeda labels Americans and Israelis as Zionists or infidels or US troops call them hajjis or sandgooks or whatever...

Consider this: you're visiting a place where you'll encounter a member of the Viet Cong in a peaceful public place. This could be a marketplace in Vietnam, or a public school in America (yes, they've immigrated here too). Which label is appropriate to cast on him?

1. Gook
2. Dink
3. Charlie
4. None of the above

Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools. I'd say a reprimand is warranted (especially since she likely doesn't understand the full meaning of her joke, as many of the people on this board don't), but an expulsion is too severe. A suspension and a letter of apology would be more appropriate.

sponger

rockford wrote:

1. Gook
2. Dink
3. Charlie
4. None of the above

Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools.

You just revealed to the forum that you can't tell the difference between a racial slur and a nickname.

The 1st Special Forces Detachment -D also goes under the name "Delta Force" because "Delta" is army talk for "D".

Under your rationale, whenever people refer to "D" Detachment of the 1st Special Forces as "Delta Force", they are being racist.

"Gook" and "Dink" have absolutely nothing to do with the official title of the communist vietnamese militia. Charlie is a direct reference to that offical title. Again, this was explained already.

the wolf

rockford wrote:

It is racist. It's a label cast upon the enemy in order to dehumanize them. Labeling makes it easier to pull the trigger. This is the same reason Al Qaeda labels Americans and Israelis as Zionists or infidels or US troops call them hajjis or sandgooks or whatever...

Consider this: you're visiting a place where you'll encounter a member of the Viet Cong in a peaceful public place. This could be a marketplace in Vietnam, or a public school in America (yes, they've immigrated here too). Which label is appropriate to cast on him?

1. Gook
2. Dink
3. Charlie
4. None of the above

Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools. I'd say a reprimand is warranted (especially since she likely doesn't understand the full meaning of her joke, as many of the people on this board don't), but an expulsion is too severe. A suspension and a letter of apology would be more appropriate.

like i myself, and a few others posted, it had nothing to do with our troops trying to dehumanize the enemy. it was military code talke for the radio's , so the enemy if listening could not decipher the message. Viet Cong became Victor Charles, and or Victor Charlie, and finally just Charlie, Charles, or Chuck.
ive worked with Nam vets, and have had many discussions with them doing research for a book. Most Vietnam vets think calling them Gooks , Dinks, as an insult to a worthy enemy. but Victor Charlie , or any of the other forms of that, acceptable , and actually feel it shows the enemy respect.

im sorry. im 35 years old and became facinated with the Vietnam war and the whole era, when i was only 12. its something i have strong feelings for.
and like i said, Most, of the Vets ive been around and have talked to would tell you the same thing. nothing racist about it. it was just military code talk. Like Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, and so on all the way to Zulu.

but of course, walking up to a vietnamese person and saying "hey Charlie" would not be cool. i get what you saying. but that was not the context in which the 15 year old girl was saying it. she was saying it in a Military context.

rockford

sponger wrote:

You just revealed to the forum that you can't tell the difference between a racial slur and a nickname.

The 1st Special Forces Detachment -D also goes under the name "Delta Force" because "Delta" is army talk for "D".

Under your rationale, whenever people refer to "D" Detachment of the 1st Special Forces as "Delta Force", they are being racist.

"Gook" and "Dink" have absolutely nothing to do with the official title of the communist vietnamese militia. Charlie is a direct reference to that offical title. Again, this was explained already.

Not at all. It's the labeling itself that's offensive. If you want to address someone as Viet Cong, then call them that. It should be pretty clear what's acceptable and what is not acceptable to say based upon what you'd say to someone's face. Charlie would not be acceptable slang to say to someone's face, so it shouldn't be used at all.

Even wikipedia points out : "American forces during the ensuing Vietnam War continued to refer to members of the NLF as Victor Charlie or simply Charlie, from the NATO phonetic alphabet... _This usage also tended to negate the positive connations of the organization's actual title_."

Using labels dehumanizes the fact that they're humans. And it makes it easier to pull the trigger in life or death situations, without thinking about the fact that the enemy has a mom and dad and kids too. For an enraged soldier in a wartime environment, sure, doing this kind of thing will help you survive so do what you need to do to get yourself home. For a school girl? Inappropriate.

I understand that one letter abbreviations are used for clarity in radio protocols, to prevent confusion of VC from BC or VE or BE or similiar sounding letters. This is apparently from the NATO phonetic alphabet, a term I just learned a moment ago.

the wolf

rockford wrote:

Not at all. It's the labeling itself that's offensive. If you want to address someone as Viet Cong, then call them that. It should be pretty clear what's acceptable and what is not acceptable to say based upon what you'd say to someone's face. Charlie would not be acceptable slang to say to someone's face, so it shouldn't be used at all.

Even wikipedia points out : "American forces during the ensuing Vietnam War continued to refer to members of the NLF as Victor Charlie or simply Charlie, from the NATO phonetic alphabet... _This usage also tended to negate the positive connations of the organization's actual title_."

Using labels dehumanizes the fact that they're humans. And it makes it easier to pull the trigger in life or death situations, without thinking about the fact that the enemy has a mom and dad and kids too. For an enraged soldier in a wartime environment, sure, doing this kind of thing will help you survive so do what you need to do to get yourself home. For a school girl? Inappropriate.

I understand that one letter abbreviations are used for clarity in radio protocols, to prevent confusion of VC from BC or VE or BE or similiar sounding letters. This is apparently from the NATO phonetic alphabet, a term I just learned a moment ago.

well if its in Wikipedia it must be true!! : ) wiki also says my last band sold over 50 thousand copies of our debut cd. lol. WRONG.
im just saying.

like i said in my previous post, her context was not racial at all.

rockford

the wolf wrote:

like i myself, and a few others posted, it had nothing to do with our troops trying to dehumanize the enemy. it was military code talke for the radio's , so the enemy if listening could not decipher the message. Viet Cong became Victor Charles, and or Victor Charlie, and finally just Charlie, Charles, or Chuck.
ive worked with Nam vets, and have had many discussions with them doing research for a book. Most Vietnam vets think calling them Gooks , Dinks, as an insult to a worthy enemy. but Victor Charlie , or any of the other forms of that, acceptable , and actually feel it shows the enemy respect.

im sorry. im 35 years old and became facinated with the Vietnam war and the whole era, when i was only 12. its something i have strong feelings for.
and like i said, Most, of the Vets ive been around and have talked to would tell you the same thing. nothing racist about it. it was just military code talk. Like Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, and so on all the way to Zulu.

but of course, walking up to a vietnamese person and saying "hey Charlie" would not be cool. i get what you saying. but that was not the context in which the 15 year old girl was saying it. she was saying it in a Military context.

I can agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe I'm bordering on being overly sensitive. I think a part of it, too, is that it really matters who's saying it.. It a member of the Viet Cong uses the term, or a US soldier, it has very different meanings than when repeated by a school-age girl. There's a lot of emotions, and terrible and great experiences that arose from the war, and it's hard to use some of these terms in simple and light-hearted playground jokes.

Maybe she can just make stick to boy jokes like the other 15 year old girls. :-)

the wolf

rockford wrote:

I can agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe I'm bordering on being overly sensitive. I think a part of it, too, is that it really matters who's saying it.. It a member of the Viet Cong uses the term, or a US soldier, it has very different meanings than when repeated by a school-age girl. There's a lot of emotions, and terrible and great experiences that arose from the war, and it's hard to use some of these terms in simple and light-hearted playground jokes.

Maybe she can just make stick to boy jokes like the other 15 year old girls. :-)

its cool. : )

duggro

nathanastin wrote:

I am so tired of all you sue happy dickheads. The school districts are so strapped for cash and you want to sue. With high gas prices, the schools are getting things left and right. Here's a solution, raise your kids right and don't allow them to act like idiots.

legal action doesnt mean trying to get money you idiot

Collin

I think the joke's pretty funny.

Jason P

There has to be something else to this story. No way this gets someone expelled.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

rockpants wrote:

Zero tolerance is the antithesis of common sense.

Astute observation!

edit and BTW this occurence stll makes me lol

hit the dirt!!!

hahaha

reminds me of me playing army when I was much younger...

Gossard_Is_God

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

As if the joke wasn't funny enough in itself, the fact that it's a 15 year old girl having Nam flashbacks just makes it the most perfect thing I've read on the boards in a while. It really sucks that she got expelled, but take comfort in the fact: that kind of wit can't be taught in school.

Same...it did make me lol

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

rockford wrote:

I can agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe I'm bordering on being overly sensitive. I think a part of it, too, is that it really matters who's saying it.. It a member of the Viet Cong uses the term, or a US soldier, it has very different meanings than when repeated by a school-age girl. There's a lot of emotions, and terrible and great experiences that arose from the war, and it's hard to use some of these terms in simple and light-hearted playground jokes.

Maybe she can just make stick to boy jokes like the other 15 year old girls. :-)

bordering? i'd say you leaped head first over the sensitivity line with a jet pack. You are acting in a way THAT DEFINES POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

Tek Money

Jason P wrote:

There has to be something else to this story. No way this gets someone expelled.

I agree. It's like the Timbit story... there was more to it.

fanch75

failedpersephone wrote:

for making a joke!

"Charlie's in the trees!!!" she yelled and fell on her stomach while there was a helicopter flying SUPER low overhead.

she was on break, and she joked that it was giving her a " 'Nam flashback" and then yelled "Charlie's in the TREES!!!" and took a spill...and THIS got her expelled.


seriously. I am pissed...I mean, what the HELL??? am I just incredibly insensitive, or is this over reacting???

I told her that if anything she should be given some type of gold star for takin' the joke to the zenith...I mean, tear in my eye proud over the idea that she would go balls out for a joke...

this isn't suspension...this is EXPULSION.

oh, btw she has Uncles and 2nd cousins that were IN 'Nam, and they have always USED this joke...in addition to other family members using it...

Man, why don't you get this kid's shit together before she robs me in ten years?!?!?

reeferchief

failedpersephone wrote:

for making a joke!

"Charlie's in the trees!!!" she yelled and fell on her stomach while there was a helicopter flying SUPER low overhead.

she was on break, and she joked that it was giving her a " 'Nam flashback" and then yelled "Charlie's in the TREES!!!" and took a spill...and THIS got her expelled.


seriously. I am pissed...I mean, what the HELL??? am I just incredibly insensitive, or is this over reacting???

I told her that if anything she should be given some type of gold star for takin' the joke to the zenith...I mean, tear in my eye proud over the idea that she would go balls out for a joke...

this isn't suspension...this is EXPULSION.

oh, btw she has Uncles and 2nd cousins that were IN 'Nam, and they have always USED this joke...in addition to other family members using it...

I remember when I was 15 I got suspended(and arrested)for possesion of Marijuana, I was out of school for two weeks.
It was one of around 25 suspensions over my last 3 years, others were for fighting, smoking, swearing or cussing at teachers etc etc.
That is just insane, what a petty thing to be expelled over I would take legal action.

markymark550

Maybe not the best joke to make, but really, expulsion?!?! That seems way too extreme a punishment for this incident.

Honestly, the only "punishment" that should have been given was someone talking to her about why the joke could be considered in poor taste and was insensitive.

For the record, I laughed my ass off reading the original post. Reminded me of the South Park episode where the boys go hunting with Jimbo and Ned. Cartman has 'Nam "flashbacks" in that episode...maybe that was part of where she got the joke?