my Niece got EXPELLED!

Heineken Helen

g under p wrote:

Hey I'm all about freedom of expression just students have to be careful of what they say just like if you were on a plane and what is appropriate to say and what is not.

why though? It's like was said, I doubt any of her sophomore friends would have taken offense... maybe if there were a couple of vietnamese kids PERHAPS they might be some kinda right but it doesn't sound like there were any.

So yeh, why does anybody have to be careful about what they say? This I'll never understand :(

eyedclaar

Heineken Helen wrote:

:eek: Wow! Perpetuating hate speech? Nope, it was just a really really funny joke. At the MOST the school should educate the school a bit better on being 'sensitive' (nothing to do with offensive) but to watch out for highly sensitive people who can ruin their lives.

Damn, I hate coming down on the side of the politally correct but like I've said before I work in HR and civil rights. This is what I do. I don't think you are in a position to judge whether or not a Vietnamese person would in fact find the term "Charlie" offensive. That is for the race being labeled/named to decide, not you. So, while you think it's really, really, funny - try putting yourself in their shoes for a second.

Like I already said, expulsion is a complete overreaction but the school does need to be aware of sensitvity issues.

Pauk

Heineken Helen wrote:

So yeh, why does anybody have to be careful about what they say? This I'll never understand :(

Because there is a sick sad minority of people who like to take the moral high ground whenever possible for self righteous gratification that they are better people :(


I don't think saying Charlie is offensive. In war, sides always give the opposition nicknames. I'd never feel offended if someone called me a limey. It's nothing to do with race as much as nicknaming the enemy, whoever the enemy may be. Far enough if it was used in a derogatory fashion towards someone from vietnam it might be offensive, but in the context of that joke not at all. Using another example, I don't think it's offensive at all to use Nazis in a joke, but to use nazi in a derogatory sense towards a german person is obviously offensive.

Nevertheless, no matter how offensive it is a kid shouldn't be expelled for one single slip of the tongue. How are they meant to learn from that? Joking about the vietnam war hardly pops up regularly these days so the kid was never going to learn by example. If they were warned about it but still carried on that may warrant suspension, but expulsion is way too extreme. Expulsion should be saved for dangerous acts or intentional deeply offensive actions, not for a harmless joke.

Heineken Helen

eyedclaar wrote:

Damn, I hate coming down on the side of the politally correct but like I've said before I work in HR and civil rights. This is what I do. I don't think you are in a position to judge whether or not a Vietnamese person would in fact find the term "Charlie" offensive. That is for the race being labeled/named to decide, not you. So, while you think it's really, really, funny - try putting yourself in their shoes for a second.

Like I already said, expulsion is a complete overreaction but the school does need to be aware of sensitvity issues.

were there any Vietnamese people THERE to BE offended? I don't think so, so it's doubtful that has anything to do with it. Education is much better than punishment. Had the school taught the students to be sensitive, they wouldn't have to punish. Besides, from what I gather, it was simply a joke with her friends. Kids should be allowed to be kids... how the fuck are they supposed to know who's going to take offense at what? Kids are much less easily offended than adults... adults tend to go too far.

acoustic guy

Vietnam was not that bad. lieutenant Dan would always tell us to GET DOWN! SHUT UP! We were always waling around looking for this guy named Charlie.

On a serious note. I didn not read all nine pages in here but its so sad that a kid would get expelled for that bs. There is many many many more terrible things that kids get away with then that.
Whats wrong with this country?

Heineken Helen

fowls wrote:

I don't think it's offensive at all to use Nazis in a joke,

:eek: You'd better duck

to be honest I could go completely off on a tangent about the whole PC thing, but I'll save that for when I'm face to face with people... vocals translate better than words on a computer screen.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

eyedclaar wrote:

That is for the race being labeled/named to decide, not you.

.

why? that sounds completely arbitrary. i would think that is up to society as a whole, not one overly sensitive guy or a few. and i doubt any Vietnamese (which isnt a race btw) would be insulted. Sounds more like overly worried white people

Pauk

Heineken Helen wrote:

:eek: You'd better duck

Pfft If people were actually offended by the use of "Nazi", Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade would have bombed.

eyedclaar

fowls wrote:

Because there is a sick sad minority of people who like to take the moral high ground whenever possible for self righteous gratification that they are better people :(


I don't think saying Charlie is offensive. In war, sides always give the opposition nicknames. I'd never feel offended if someone called me a limey. It's nothing to do with race as much as nicknaming the enemy, whoever the enemy may be. Far enough if it was used in a derogatory fashion towards someone from vietnam it might be offensive, but in the context of that joke not at all. Using another example, I don't think it's offensive at all to use Nazis in a joke, but to use nazi in a derogatory sense towards a german person is obviously offensive.

What's this another white person who doesn't think "Charlie" is offensive. Big surprise. There's no real reason YOU should be offended as the term isn't used in relation to your race. It's the Vietnamese who get to decide if the term is offensive or not and I guarantee you they think it is.

They don't go around saying things to each other like, "My Charlie, wazzup?" or "Charlie please, you must be out your mind."

I have a lot of practice with this conversation from private meetings with employees who are sent to the HR guy (me) for training or discipline. Again, it doesn't matter what YOU find offensive, it doesn't matter what YOU might have intended. People are fired or disciplined all the time because THEY think some offhand remark or joke is hilarious while someone overhearing the comments is offended.

lukin2006

Vedderfan10 wrote:

If one person is offended at all by something someone says, reprimands must happen. In a work situation, she could be fired for that. Its unfortunate that an offended person can't just say "I found that really offensive..." rather than run to the Human Rights or whatever department to have the person fired or reprimanded...

While your nieces actions were funny, it could completely be taken out of context and be considered to be in very poor taste and very offensive...and yeah, could get you a suspension from school.

Where I work we were forced to take a course on harassment, and we were told that if we felt like someone has said something offensive we first must tell them that what they said was offensive, before work or anyone else would even look at it, that seems reasonable. But as far as I'm concerned people take everything said way to serious.

lukin2006

MrSmith wrote:

You have offended me. who do i contact in regards to getting you fired?

please, explain this logic to me.

God how i hate political correctness. its a plague on mankind.

Amen.

my2hands

duggro wrote:

you gotta take it to the school board. threaten legal action

thats correct


i would even consult an attorney


she definitely can fight that and has a good chance of winning. that is ridiculous

eyedclaar

Heineken Helen wrote:

were there any Vietnamese people THERE to BE offended? I don't think so, so it's doubtful that has anything to do with it. Education is much better than punishment. Had the school taught the students to be sensitive, they wouldn't have to punish. Besides, from what I gather, it was simply a joke with her friends. Kids should be allowed to be kids... how the fuck are they supposed to know who's going to take offense at what? Kids are much less easily offended than adults... adults tend to go too far.

So, if there were no black people around, the kids could run around shouting "nigger" at the top of their lungs?

lukin2006

MrSmith wrote:

oh damnit, i said "mankind" instead of something more gender neutral like "people". please, ladies, dont be offended that i would use such a male chauvanist term. i really like my job.

your fired, clear out now

my2hands

failedpersephone wrote:

"Charlie's in the trees!!!" she yelled and fell on her stomach while there was a helicopter flying SUPER low overhead.

she was on break, and she joked that it was giving her a " 'Nam flashback" and then yelled "Charlie's in the TREES!!!" and took a spill...

i am sorry, but that is funny, i laughed while reading it picturing it happening!

lukin2006

MrSmith wrote:

i didnt mean you. i'm just trying to figure out why anyone could be offended. its not racist, sexist, anti-anything. its a scene out of Forrest Gump for Christsakes! is it the Columbine angle? thats a huuuuge stretch.

i think its a terrible example to set for kids that they should watch every word they say for fear that some uninformed idiot could be offended and cost them there job/education.

i probably wouldnt last a day at your job, heheh.

I wouldn't last if the people I work with were so PC, gotta love working with people who have good humour and know when people are joking.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

eyedclaar wrote:

So, if there were no black people around, the kids could run around shouting "nigger" at the top of their lungs?

black people have plenty of reasons to be offended at that word, and if people are using it, they probably mean it to be offensive.

I've yet to hear a decent reason why saying "Charlie" in public would be offensive and If someone says Charlie in referencing a Vietnam movie chances are they mean know offense by it.

They arent in the same league. THEY ARE NOT REMOTELY SIMILAR.

Pauk

eyedclaar wrote:

What's this another white person who doesn't think "Charlie" is offensive. Big surprise. There's no real reason YOU should be offended as the term isn't used in relation to your race. It's the Vietnamese who get to decide if the term is offensive or not and I guarantee you they think it is.

They don't go around saying things to each other like, "My Charlie, wazzup?" or "Charlie please, you must be out your mind."

I have a lot of practice with this conversation from private meetings with employees who are sent to the HR guy (me) for training or discipline. Again, it doesn't matter what YOU find offensive, it doesn't matter what YOU might have intended. People are fired or disciplined all the time because THEY think some offhand remark or joke is hilarious while someone overhearing the comments is offended.

The difference is you're in a professional workplace and this is a KID during their BREAK amongst FRIENDS! Kids say stupid things at breaktime. Everyone's made some stupid joke at one time or another. it may be inappropriate but it's not worthy of expulsion.

I'd never joke about war or killing in work, but I have plenty of times amongst friends because I know they don't take it offensively or personally. In my opinion unless the kid is using it as an insult or bullying tactic then what they do on break is none of the teacher's concern.

eyedclaar

MrSmith wrote:

black people have plenty of reasons to be offended at that word, and if people are using it, they probably mean it to be offensive.

I've yet to hear a decent reason why saying "Charlie" in public would be offensive and If someone says Charlie in referencing a Vietnam movie chances are they mean know offense by it.

They arent in the same league. THEY ARE NOT REMOTELY SIMILAR.

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure you know Vietnamese culture inside and out. I'm sure they all have fond memories of the Vietnam war and enjoy being called Charlie.

For anyone who was actually paying attention. I said, all that needed to happen was one teacher pull the kid aside and give a brief explanation as to why that isn't the most appropriate language for school. No suspensions, no expulsions, just an opportunity to educate...

For the record, I'm sure most of you white folks can't imagine why anyone would have trouble with the term "redskin". Hell, we have a professional football team with the same same. I'm part cherokee, do I have a right to be offended with that term?

eyedclaar

fowls wrote:

The difference is you're in a professional workplace and this is a KID during their BREAK amongst FRIENDS! Kids say stupid things at breaktime. Everyone's made some stupid joke at one time or another. it may be inappropriate but it's not worthy of expulsion.

I'd never joke about war or killing in work, but I have plenty of times amongst friends because I know they don't take it offensively or personally. In my opinion unless the kid is using it as an insult or bullying tactic then what they do on break is none of the teacher's concern.

For the last time:

For anyone who was actually paying attention. I said, all that needed to happen was one teacher pull the kid aside and give a brief explanation as to why that isn't the most appropriate language for school. No suspensions, no expulsions, just an opportunity to educate...