Tipping in the service industry

wolfbear

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

wow, thanks for finding that. That's scary. They can look at the credit card tips and assume that I made $320 on Saturday. Which I didn't, since I tipped $113 to the bussers, hostess and kitchen.

Well, this appears to be quite an old posting. I was just trying to find a quick history of the taxing of tips and how it has changed over the years. I know things continue to change and I've been out of the tax part of this for quite a while.

jasonw

dunkman wrote:

when i'm in the states next year i fully intend not to tip. I dont care that the service might be shitty next time i'm in there as i wont be in the same place twice. if staff 'feel hurt' that they only got 15% then wait till they get fuck all from me... then they'll know what real hurt is.

Yeah man you're awesome....you'll show 'em!

decides2dream

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

keep in mind, that we still need to earn a living, even in California. Somebody has to wait tables. Somebody has to support the family. $8/hour x 40 hours = $320. That's less than $1300 a month. A lot of people who wait tables do it because those hours work well with their family schedule/routine or because they are single parents, etc. Rent is $1300/month and up in California. So if you stop tipping, you are screwing all of us over and there will be no reason to wait tables anymore. Service will be shitty from then on.

i live in NY, no need to explain cost of living.


that said, that is still utter bullshit.
so you would take no pride in your work and only perform up to standards b/c of tips otherwise EVERYone would do a shit job? i think not. there are ALWAYS people who need work and who would take said jobs, and be happy to do so...and yes, still provide excellent service. i've gone to fast food restaurants, talk about making a shit wage, and have friendly, courteous, very good service. some of the 'best' restaurants there has been shit service. it depends on the waitstaff and their attitude.


and i STILL say $9 dollars an hour really does not 'deserve' a tip on top of that. imo, waiting tables is extremely similar to working retial in that the hours usually suck, no benefits, and the pay varies, usually a bit sucky. waiters i think actually make more than the average salesperson - if they don't work on commission. $9 an hour is pretty damn good $$$ for straight retail sales, and i think the same for being a waiter. want to make more $$$ w/o tips? get a different job. most waitstaff, along with most retail staff that i know of are college-age kids, some seniors, and some women making extra $$$ or supplementing their husband's income.

if one makes a 'career' of waiting tables, usually in very high-end restuarants...or low income areas/diners and such. if tipping came to an end, i would see better pay. you are already pretty decently paid b the hour for waitstaff imo. obviously, just my opinion. however, when compared to similar work with simlar requirements, it's decent pay. i expect good service in a store or i won't go back...i expect the same in a restaurant, so no...i don't see the end of tipping creating shitty service, except from servers who share the same attitude as you. i'd think you'd simply move on to other work, and other servers willing to work for that pay sans tip would quickly take the jobs, and sure...still manage to give excellent service simply b/c it's their work ethic to do so.

here in NY and elsewhere that waitstaff are still underpaid, i will happily continue to tip, and tip generously for excellent service. even here tho, as i said, if i ever was faced with a waitperson who clearly demonstrated the attitude they 'deserve' more of a tip...fuck that.

haffajappa

decides2dream wrote:

i live in NY, no need to explain cost of living.


and i STILL say $9 dollars an hour really does not 'deserve' a tip on top of that. imo, waiting tables is extremely similar to working retial in that the hours usually suck, no benefits, and the pay varies, usually a bit sucky. waiters i think actually make more than the average salesperson - if they don't work on commission. $9 an hour is pretty damn good $$$ for straight retail sales, and i think the same for being a waiter. want to make more $$$ w/o tips? get a different job. most waitstaff, along with most retail staff that i know of are college-age kids, some seniors, and some women making extra $$$ or supplementing their husband's income.

-

here in NY and elsewhere that waitstaff are still underpaid, i will happily continue to tip, and tip generously for excellent service. even here tho, as i said, if i ever was faced with a waitperson who clearly demonstrated the attitude they 'deserve' more of a tip...fuck that.

My thoughts exactly....
I know busting your ass for table is hard... but busting your ass for customers can be demanding too.
I worked at a large department store and barely saw a raise in over three years... (if you constitute .10 a raise then, well i got a raise )
i didn't get tips on busy days? I didn't really expect any... even though the bastards left me to train people and run the dept myself half the time!

decides2dream

doin'the-evolution wrote:

My thoughts exactly....
I know busting your ass for table is hard... but busting your ass for customers can be demanding too.
I worked at a large department store and barely saw a raise in over three years... (if you constitute .10 a raise then, well i got a raise )
i didn't get tips on busy days? I didn't really expect any... even though the bastards left me to train people and run the dept myself half the time!

exactly.
spare me the sob story over wages.
i taught part-time, and worked retail part-time to pay my way thru grad school.....i got shitty-ass private school pay at the time, made shitty-ass retail wages...busted my ASS off working both....and never got tipped. so i do agree to an extent that tipping certain fields is quite arbitrary. $9 an hour does not constitute a tip-worthy job imho. and to say one needs to make a living, to support a family, etc....how do all the immigrants do it? how do other people manage to support their families? if waiting table isn't enough $$$ to support your family, go get another job!

haffajappa

decides2dream wrote:

exactly.
spare me the sob story over wages.
i taught part-time, and worked retail part-time to pay my way thru grad school.....i got shitty-ass private school pay at the time, made shitty-ass retail wages...busted my ASS off working both....and never got tipped. so i do agree to an extent that tipping certain fields is quite arbitrary. $9 an hour does not constitute a tip-worthy job imho. and to say one needs to make a living, to support a family, etc....how do all the immigrants do it? how do other people manage to support their families? if waiting table isn't enough $$$ to support your family, go get another job!

yeppers.
i worked 2 retail jobs, now that i'm in school i've dropped one and still working the all-in-one store. granted, i picked it because it was the more slack job. but i get paid decently to work hard when its busy and do what i want when its not...and i'm not complaining.

people have tipped me before at that job, why? i have no idea. but it doesnt happen often and i spend half the time trying to politely tell the person i don't need a tip and i'd feel guilty taking it... but i've heard that people enjoy me working there and i've had customers say they'll stop going if i quit...the food service industry isn't the only place where the workers are friendly, provide good service, are efficient, draw back regulars, etc.

some times it feels like food servers think they are the only people who deal with the paying public, and the only ones who do it civilly...

i hsould also add that when people tell me to keep the change (this happens often) i just put it in the charity tin.

Vedderlution_Baby

doin'the-evolution wrote:

yeppers.
i worked 2 retail jobs, now that i'm in school i've dropped one and still working the all-in-one store. granted, i picked it because it was the more slack job. but i get paid decently to work hard when its busy and do what i want when its not...and i'm not complaining.

people have tipped me before at that job, why? i have no idea. but it doesnt happen often and i spend half the time trying to politely tell the person i don't need a tip and i'd feel guilty taking it... but i've heard that people enjoy me working there and i've had customers say they'll stop going if i quit...the food service industry isn't the only place where the workers are friendly, provide good service, are efficient, draw back regulars, etc.

some times it feels like food servers think they are the only people who deal with the paying public, and the only ones who do it civilly...

There needs to be a tipping thread for each region. I keep wanting to say "Yea, but..." then I remember we're from two different regions and our arguments are moot points to each other.

haffajappa

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

There needs to be a tipping thread for each region. I keep wanting to say "Yea, but..." then I remember we're from two different regions and our arguments are moot points to each other.

What, people in retail say "fuck you serve yourself" where you live?

Haha, but we'll ask Kat anyways
Although with some regions you might have confused people wondering why we're talking about restaurants and not cows!

Hinny

Trailer wrote:

I used to be a server, and whenever I got foreigners like dunkman:p.. who I assumed might not be accustomed to tip... I would sometimes just add on 18% by writing it on the bill with my pen (even though it was against my restaurant's policy). I would only do this if they racked up a bill above $250 and it was a good portion of my nightly sales. If I got caught I could have been fired for doing that... but I wasn't about to let someone not tip me.:D It was mainly for people from Japan who didn't really speak english.. because I've been over there and know that they don't tip.

So be on the lookout when you come to the states dunkman.. they can sneak that tip in on you.;)

See, this is why I'm one of those bastards who spends 5 minutes to make sure I'm getting charged exactly what I'm sposed to.

dunkman wrote:

1. to revolutionise the food service industry
2. you have immense rollercoasters
3. to spread the word of Scotland.
4. see if some people really are that fat in real life
5. appear in a porno, in ohhh lets say, Hollywood

So quite different to mine, except for the fat people bit
1. Fat people
2. Gun shops
3. Huge servings of greasy crappy food at truck stops
4. Gospel churches
5. Bible thumpers
6. People who chant USA USA USA
7. People who say y'all
8. People like these http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=iDIsOqq6yko

Seattle was pretty disappointing, only saw like a few fat guys and they were out-of-town tourists hanging round Pike Place. Must branch out next time.

Heineken Helen

mca47 wrote:

No tip on a carry out.

I generally tip $1 per order min. from a bartender. Whether it's a beer or a couple drinks. If they go out of their way or make a drink really nice, or strong, etc. I'll tip more.

Last night I was on the road and wanted a drink. I went down from my room to the hotel bar and asked the guy for a drink so I could take it up to my room and drink it while watching baseball. I ordered a double Jonnie Walker Black on the rocks. They guy literally filled a big glass to the rim with booze! He got a $4 tip.

I feel if you treat people for doing nice things like that, they will in turn keep it up. Kind of a karma thing. If he continued to get shit tips, or no tips, why would he go out of his way to fill a glass like he for me? He wouldn't!

Once he got his tip, he was very much appreciative and I know for a fact if I wanted another drink he would have done the exact same thing.


Remember this cheapskates...because of you we all get shitty drinks and shitty attitude!

he just stole from his employer though

Heineken Helen

Binaural wrote:

You don't need to tip, its optional. But the reason you pay more for a product in a restauraunt or bar is because you are consuming the product within a provided premises, thats why the off-liscense beside the bar charges less for the bottle of bud, you aren't sitting in the off-liscense drinking it (unless you spend 24 hours a day in an addidas racksuit ). Like I said, service isn't factored in to it, product and premises thats what you're paying for.

an off-licence has to pay for the product and premises too of COURSE service is counted in.

Heineken Helen

doin'the-evolution wrote:

the meaning of TIP has gotten way out of hand.

It's gotten to the point that you have to tip, no matter how shitty the service is.

I'm sorry, I should have to stay home because I'm in university and can't afford to be dishing out extra money to people just because they are DOING THEIR JOB?

Listen, i'm all for tipping if i get good service.

And don't give me this they-live-off-their-tips bullshit. Why should broke people who work in, say, retail or something, have to look "cheap" if they can't afford to be tipping everywhere?

Other people make minimum wage, and other people don't get tips.
I have family members who work in the food industry, and if you think waitresses are starving for money then maybe you should talk to some of them that are making 700 dollars upwards a week in tips (and yes, i know A LOT of waitresses who are making this)

Once again, i'm not saying you shouldn't tip, i just think you should think twice before calling some people cheap for not doing it.


Now, if you're a well off bastard and don't tip, well.... then thats a different story.

EXCELLENT post!

Heineken Helen

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Greeting you
Taking your order
Bringing you drinks
Placing your order
Keeping you drinks refilled
Keeping your chips/bread/whatever filled
Making sure the order is made right
Making sure the order is brought to the correct table
Making sure that the order is to your liking
Taking care of any problems you may have
Basically trying to ensure that you have a comfortable evening without any hitches even if it means fighting with cooks, bartenders, other servers, and even the managers.

Tell your friend that unless he's going to do all this shit himself next time he goes into a full service restaurant, he needs to start tipping the proper amount or keep his ass to a sandwich shop.

Yip, that's their job description! They have a job, they're lucky! I don't! If I can scrape the money to go out... I'm not gonna treat the staff like charity when I'm nearly one myself

Heineken Helen

doin'the-evolution wrote:

i agree, and thank you for assuring me i'm not the only one who thought this was arrogant.
I tip when the service is good. (since that is what is meant by tip)

i really think that this is a cultural thing.
in some asian countries, you don't tip AT ALL.
in north america, it's beginning to be that you tip NO MATTER WHAT.

I've had instances when I've left the tip in cash on the table, and paid by debit card at the hostess booth, and then got a very dirty look when (it seems as though) I haven't left a tip because I press 'no tip' on the keypad. It's the attitude, really... that starts to frustrate me.

If that happened to me, I'd actually go back and, in full view of the host/hostess, remove my tip from the table!

Heineken Helen

Hinny wrote:

Why isn't there the political will to set up a decent minimum wage arrangement?

apparently that's a no-go

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

i remember having a waitress in a bar bring the bill back to us after a meal cause in her words, youve forgotten the tip. i was with 2 americans(this being in NY), so i left it to them to sort out.

I would have just said 'no we didn't FORGET' and walked out Ignorant bitch!

Heineken Helen

decides2dream wrote:

good for you!
you also said you made it obvious that you thought their tip was too small, etc...thus guilted them into tipping more. i am a great tipper for great service, but if i ever felt like someone was 'hinting' they should get tipped more....sorry, i would then leave no tip.


we have lots of great waitstaff in numerous restaurants, there are always excellent waitstaff in many restaurants....so hell yea...i would not be requesting to sit in your section. i rather give my tip to someone who actually appreciates it, doesn't EXPECT or practically demand it....and still gives excellent service. that's just my thoughts. i've also seen read posts of yours saying you prefer getting a 30% tip. so yea......whateva. guess my usual 20% wouldn't be 'good enough' for you. no thank you.

It's nice to see an American say this. That's the point I've been trying to make. I'm a great tipper, even over here when nobody else tips! BUT if it's expected or hinted at or somebody's being condescending about what I leave, they can fuck right off!

Heineken Helen

decides2dream wrote:

i look as tipping as a necessary evil.
you know the scene at the beginning of the flick reservoir dogs? that is exactly my sentiment on tipping as well. personally, i would love to see it abolished completely. sometimes you just don't know when it's appropriate or not, and sometimes it seems ridiculous. valet parking! damn....annoys the shit out of me. seriously tho, i far rather they get paid a decent wage, build it into the price of the food, haircut, valet parking, whatever...and be done with it. and damn, if some servers are making $9 an hour PLUS getting tips? nice gig! i always thought servers made under $5 an hour, and thus tipping does seem a necessary evil.


it WOULD be aesome to see some choice on a ballot box to vote to do away with tipping and insist on paying all a decent wage...but until it becomes an 'important' enough issue....just have to deal with the system that is.


i remember one time at one of our fave places, we inadverently undertipped one of our fave, and excellent, servers. when we got home i felt so bad about it. next time we went in, we made sure to more than make up for it. i guess to the point that she actually questioned us and we explained why. she was of course very gracious and thankful, but said it was entirely unnecessary, we are regular and wonderful customers, always generous, etc......that it didn't even register when we 'undertipped'. made me feel so much better about the situation, etc, but sure....still asked her to keep it, she deserved it.


reading shite here i am thankful i got such a reaction b/c some posts indicate i'd probably get spit in my food for daring to make an error.

Great post!

Heineken Helen

doin'the-evolution wrote:

No offense, you really shouldn't take things personally....
That might be more of a personal thing than people in general being 'cheap'. I thought 15% is customary? So now if you do what is customary, its actually not enough. So then 20% is now customary? So if everyone tips 20%, then what? We make it 25%? Where does it end, exactly...

In contrast to what you've said, you do have to tip.
At least this is what can be summed up from this thread.

I think the point is 15% is you paying for your service. Anything above that is the tip. You leave 15%, you don't tip? did I get that right?

mickeyrat

Heineken Helen wrote:

I think the point is 15% is you paying for your service. Anything above that is the tip. You leave 15%, you don't tip? did I get that right?

not right . the bill you receive is for the total package. Suggested tip is 15% above that .

Heineken Helen

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

Foreigners are exempt from hurting my feelings. I still give 5 star service, but expect nothing as far as a tip... I realize they are ignorant.

Nope, we just come from a civilised society where employers actually PAY the people who are making their money for them!

mickeyrat

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nope, we just come from a civilised society where employers actually PAY the people who are making their money for them!

Thats the whole reason we declared indepence was to screw over the little people!

Heineken Helen

I was in Norway at the weekend. A ridiculously fucking expensive country! Anyway at the end of one of the nights... we'd been drinking there all night, the only people in the bar pretty much, playing pool, getting great service, requesting music from the barman who did everything we asked. Before the end of the night, he'd even agreed to come on to the next pub with us when he closed up and he was going on about how he'd had so much fun with us. Just before we were leaving, I was gonna leave a tip cos he was so great... and asked my Norwegian friend if it's done there.. she said yeh, that she'd been tipping with every drink and that's what's done :eek: . None of the rest of us had been even though he still kept up the great service and probably pretty sure he wasn't going to be getting a tip. So we left a pretty big tip just before we left. Point is he did his job, the job he's paid to do regardless of whether he gets tipped or not. Service was DEFINITELY above and beyond! And that's the way it should be. He got his tip but it wasn't expected and he probably got way more because of that.

joint in a tree

doin'the-evolution wrote:

you have to tip out your staff 3 dollars, even if you dont make any tips? thats ridiculous... i've worked in restaurants before and the logical way was to count the tips seperately, and a portion of the tips goes to the kitchen staff.... i don't realy see how there is any other way to do that to end up in you being negative 3 but if there is that really sucks...


so if you, say, dont make ANY tips... then you're required to pay 3 %.... of what? what is 3 % of nothing... its not negative...

it's 3% of my SALES..
So if i sell $1000 worth of food and drink tonight, $30 automatically comes out for tipout. (In my place, we don't tip the kitchen--they make regular wages--$13-15/hr--....the bartenders, busboys and hostesses make $4.40, and therefore have to be tipped out.) So if I make 15% on my tips ($150), I'm walking out with $120.

so, yeah, if have a check of $300, and they only leave me $20, 9 of those bucks are going to tipout, so i only make $11. chances are, that won't happen, because $300 check usually means a large party, and my restaurant automatically puts 18% gratuity on tables of 8 or more. Some places do 6 or more.

I hope dunkman goes to a place that has automatic gratuity. Many places in Manhattan do, because there are so many tourists who are either cheap or "don't know to tip".

jasonw

Heineken Helen wrote:

I was in Norway at the weekend. A ridiculously fucking expensive country! Anyway at the end of one of the nights... we'd been drinking there all night, the only people in the bar pretty much, playing pool, getting great service, requesting music from the barman who did everything we asked. Before the end of the night, he'd even agreed to come on to the next pub with us when he closed up and he was going on about how he'd had so much fun with us. Just before we were leaving, I was gonna leave a tip cos he was so great... and asked my Norwegian friend if it's done there.. she said yeh, that she'd been tipping with every drink and that's what's done :eek: . None of the rest of us had been even though he still kept up the great service and probably pretty sure he wasn't going to be getting a tip. So we left a pretty big tip just before we left. Point is he did his job, the job he's paid to do regardless of whether he gets tipped or not. Service was DEFINITELY above and beyond! And that's the way it should be. He got his tip but it wasn't expected and he probably got way more because of that.

It's kinda hard to not get extra special service when you are the only ones in the bar.

elmer

On two occasions waitresses haven't returned my change after me having paid the bill, I've had to ask for it! Now that really is taking the piss I think. The last time they tried to keep the 9euros change from a bill of 61, as if they'd imagined I'd be too polite to ask for it back. Needless to say, they got no tip and I really had to hold my tongue. One bad apple spoils........s'hard not to regard them all as a sea of bastards now.

Heineken Helen

jasonw wrote:

It's kinda hard to not get extra special service when you are the only ones in the bar.

that's not the point... it can be hard! The barman still didn't need to go above and beyond... he coulda just took it easy cos it was quiet. He was barman, dj, local tour guide and lots of other roles. The point is he would have presumed from early on that he wouldn't have got a tip so, should he have worked slower? Ignored us a bit? That seems to be what goes on in the states. But no, he didn't and he got a great tip at the end of the night. If he had presumed we wouldn't tipped and made a point of it, he would have got nothing but no, he did the job he was paid to do.

haffajappa

joint in a tree wrote:

I hope dunkman goes to a place that has automatic gratuity. Many places in Manhattan do, because there are so many tourists who are either cheap or "don't know to tip".

ha! love it... 'cheap or "don't know how to tip"' with an extra effort of quotation marks.

and then people are wondering why we use cultural examples :rolleyes:

oh the irony of the american calling the tourist ignorant.

haffajappa

Heineken Helen wrote:

If that happened to me, I'd actually go back and, in full view of the host/hostess, remove my tip from the table!

yeah, haha. i had half a mind to. i mean, its just the whole attitude like it really is mandatory.


ps,

Heineken Helen wrote:

I was in Norway at the weekend.

bitch!

Heineken Helen

doin'the-evolution wrote:

yeah, haha. i had half a mind to. i mean, its just the whole attitude like it really is mandatory.


ps,

bitch!

well you'll know what to do next time

Ya might wanna have a look at the pics on facebook :eek: