why is it . . .

GraySaturday

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

really? I don't think so. D2d posted it, and she would NEVER do that. Plus, it's all so well covered up in the wording...for example, she uses the word "people" instead of "person." You can't crack code like that.

I honestly think you're reading to much into it. It would be a lot of effort and frankly weird, to try so hard to get the wording so perfect just to call out one person. I truly believe that she was making a general statement. And if you follow the trend of the board lately, I totally agree with the general statement. There are plenty of examples of the integrity of this thread on numerous other threads. I don't think it was a big conspiracy theory, but an observation of someone's frustrations.

decides2dream

comebackgirl wrote:

I think it's possible to relate to someone else's experience even if you haven't experienced something similar yourself, as long as you give the other person the the opportunity to tell you what the experience was like for them...and then you can pull upon similar emotions/reactions/etc that you have had in other situations to develop an understanding. You will never really *know* what it was like for them...but you can absolutely relate and empathize.

Likewise, I think 2 people could have very similar experiences (going through a divorce/being an addict/losing a child) and your experience is going to still be very different from the other person's because there are so many other factors that affect these situations and the way they effect us...so again...even if you've gone through it yourself, you'll never really *know* what it was like for someone else, although you certainly may have a bit more insight, etc. My mother and I have both gone through divorces...our experiences of these situations could not be more different...we can both relate to some of the elements, but on others we are worlds apart.

I agree - all opinions are welcome...a lot of times they give me an opportunity to think about something in a way I haven't considered...and I'm always open to hearing other people's perspectives...it helps me understand them and the world better....but yeah...when it comes off as the *only* way or the way it *should* be done then it's really annoying. It's also interesting to note that some people who are the first to come off as an *expert* are also quick to dismiss everyone else's advice and opinions when offered.

thank you, i agree with ALL your post...but i think the last paragraph really is *it* as to what i was thinking about. absolutely, differing povs AND life experiences DO give you a wider view. i was in NO way trying to dismiss that. i was simply asking WHY one might think some might be like that? or just the bizarre phenomena of a thread entitled 'if you're divorced raise your hand'....and soooo many of the posts are from people CLEARLY not divorced? again, i am NOT saying they don't have a RIGHT to post...of course they do....i just think it's odd? maybe.....unsure. i just know i read the thread b/c i was interested....but yea, i personally wouldn't have thought to post b/c yea, i am not divorced. and there are COUNTLESS topics like that, and same thing....etc. i am not 'picking on' any one thread or poster....it's ALL of it, collectively...and i guess yesterday it was just that much more *clear* in my mind....thus why i asked.....

Jeanie

decides2dream wrote:

absolutely.


i think because this 'place' is read...it's all typed out...we read, can refer back, etc. and also b/c there is some degree of anonimity for many here....it IS just a fascinating thing! i truly DO find it bizarre in many ways...but obviously, for the internet it is NOT bizarre, at all.


i've said it numerous times, some psych major should do their dissertation on board dynamics, b/c they seem to be eerily similar from one community to the next.....different personalities and how they interact, and it is *different* from the real world, for lack of a better term....b/c it is NOT face to face, many don't know each other, etc. it really is amazing........or maybe it just is to me. haha. dunno.


but man, from the FIRST post onwards, NOT once did i EVEr say people should be experts...or who should/shouldn't post. damn, i was really careful with the wording! beyond all that, i ALSO made it VERY clear, it's JUST MY OPINION! people can and should feel free to disagree, agree and anything inbetween. that's the whole POINT!





btw - i am not 'covering my ass'.....there is nothing to 'cover' in here. there is no name-calling, rudeness, disrespect, etc here. open to ALL. one can believe what they want.....but my reasons for starting this thread, yesterday, exactly when i did, were NUMEROUS...and not just ANY ONE poster or thread. it was cumulative, after reading quite a few things on the board...got the idea in my head, and i felt like 'putting it out there'...how anyone ELSe perceives it, is their OWN.

Yes, I think a study on the dynamics of this stuff would make an excellent sociology paper. I don't think things are that different here to other places on the internets in terms of dynamics no matter how many attempts they make on other forums to limit language and extend the time between posts and pms. (please! please! Don't get any ideas mods! ) I do find I can be more relaxed here than on other forums, I'm much more comfortable despite some people's best efforts to make it otherwise but I also feel a greater responsibility to communicate in a more consillatory fashion here. In other words I don't wanna shit where I eat.

It's an interesting discussion you got going here d2d.
Certainly some very interesting points of view to consider.

GreenTeaDisease

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

There is a huge list of people that do exactly what the OP described.

yes, I do agree with that. but I also believe this thread was started in direct response to me. I mean, it appeared RIGHT as everyone was bashing me for being in a thread "where I dont belong." (how people cannot belong in threads is beyond).

decides2dream

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

There is a huge list of people that do exactly what the OP described.

yes.
and that's the TOPIC. why is it....b/c i truly do wonder?
obviously, it IS some combination of simply human nature.....personality......and i personally believe, most definitely ALSO internet culture. thus i was, and still am, curious if others think the same as to the whys of it.


sure, it happens out in the 'real world' too, absolutely. i just think t's even more prevalent in internet communities....or that may simply be my own, personal perspective.

decides2dream

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, I think a study on the dynamics of this stuff would make an excellent sociology paper. I don't think things are that different here to other places on the internets in terms of dynamics no matter how many attempts they make on other forums to limit language and extend the time between posts and pms. (please! please! Don't get any ideas mods! : ) I do find I can be more relaxed here than on other forums, I'm much more comfortable despite some people's best efforts to make it otherwise but I also feel a greater responsibility to communicate in a more consillatory fashion here. In other words I don't wanna shit where I eat.

It's an interesting discussion you got going here d2d.
Certainly some very interesting points of view to consider.

exactly.
and it doesn't matter how much i 'expect' it...or come to 'know' it to some degree....it STILL absolutely fascinates me. then again, i have ALWAYS been such a 'people-watcher.' perhaps i should've gone for the psych degree rather than the arts and education....some might thinbk it would've been more useful - but that's another discussion. altho i will say i think arts and education HAs contributed to my overall curiosity of it all, any maybe too many psych classes in any case...so if i took more? :eek:

it's a bizarre fecking world.......:D

Jeanie

decides2dream wrote:

exactly.
and it doesn't matter how much i 'expect' it...or come to 'know' it to some degree....it STILL absolutely fascinates me. then again, i have ALWAYS been such a 'people-watcher.' perhaps i should've gone for the psych degree rather than the arts and education....some might thinbk it would've been more useful - but that's another discussion. ; ) altho i will say i think arts and education HAs contributed to my overall curiosity of it all, any maybe too many psych classes in any case...so if i took more? :eek:

it's a bizarre fecking world.......: D

You're preaching to the choir sister!

I love watching it all unfold here, seeing the different perspectives and personalities come into play and not so much now but I remember earlier on having to clarify my point of view over and over because folk didn't really understand where I was coming from. Not so much now though.
And some folk it took me ages to get a sense of them. It's a very fascinating thing to watch indeed. I think arts and education is probably better in that it allows you to observe and interpret in your own way, as opposed to psych where the onus would be on you to observe, interpret and SOLVE.

Yes, people watching, well people in general have always been a fascinating subject to study. Interaction is a very complicated process but so amazing to see when it's successful.

decides2dream

Jeanie wrote:

You're preaching to the choir sister!

I love watching it all unfold here, seeing the different perspectives and personalities come into play and not so much now but I remember earlier on having to clarify my point of view over and over because folk didn't really understand where I was coming from. Not so much now though.
And some folk it took me ages to get a sense of them. It's a very fascinating thing to watch indeed. I think arts and education is probably better in that it allows you to observe and interpret in your own way, as opposed to psych where the onus would be on you to observe, interpret and SOLVE.

Yes, people watching, well people in general have always been a fascinating subject to study. Interaction is a very complicated process but so amazing to see when it's successful.

i don't wanna think, i wanna feel.....





i was just thinking about that....and yes, i think it comes down to feelings. no matter WHAT we *know*....we just can't *feel* everything if we don't actually experience it. i will NEVER know what it's like to get high on heroin. ever. people can explain it, doctors and experts study it, 'know' so much about it....but the ONLY people who can KNOW what it FEELS like, are those with DIRECT experience. so yes, it is NOT to discount the validity of opinions, but just that sometimes...i think people want to directly relate to people who HAVE experienced what they have experienced. almost all support groups are based on such thinking...so yes, i guess that's really where my mind is at. sometimes people just want to identify/share with people who DO know, first-hand.....what they too know first-hand..compare and contrast...and just share that SHARED experience....whether it be a pearl jam concert, marriage, being single, having children, visiting paris, surviving cancer, losing a spouse/child, quitting smoking, etc....without EVER being 'in their shoes'...cannot FULLY share that ALL. just my own thoughts on it.....and i personally respect that fine line....and whateva.......:p haha.

Jeanie

decides2dream wrote:

i don't wanna think, i wanna feel.....





i was just thinking about that....and yes, i think it comes down to feelings. no matter WHAT we *know*....we just can't *feel* everything if we don't actually experience it. i will NEVER know what it's like to get high on heroin. ever. people can explain it, doctors and experts study it, 'know' so much about it....but the ONLY people who can KNOW what it FEELS like, are those with DIRECT experience. so yes, it is NOT to discount the validity of opinions, but just that sometimes...i think people want to directly relate to people who HAVE experienced what they have experienced. almost all support groups are based on such thinking...so yes, i guess that's really where my mind is at. sometimes people just want to identify/share with people who DO know, first-hand.....what they too know first-hand..compare and contrast...and just share that SHARED experience....whether it be a pearl jam concert, marriage, being single, having children, visiting paris, surviving cancer, losing a spouse/child, quitting smoking, etc....without EVER being 'in their shoes'...cannot FULLY share that ALL. just my own thoughts on it.....and i personally respect that fine line....and whateva.......:p haha.

Well even with people sharing an identical experience their interpretation of said experience will vary. You've only got to look at eye witness statements to see just how much they can vary! I think perhaps even if you've not experienced something that someone is talking about there still may be elements of the situation that resonate and could apply to your own experience. It's possible depending on how you interpret and communicate you could offer something very helpful to a person. That's the beauty of communication and connection it's as individual as the individuals involved and the circumstances. I've noticed myself that even on some very dark days, others that haven't experienced what I am going through can offer some really amazing help simply by being more detached from the situation than me. I've come to trust in those people and welcome their counsel because it has proven to be such a blessing. The support they give, the hand holding, the shoulder to cry on, well those things are invaluable. I don't know dream, I suppose I've been referred to support groups on numerous occasions but I'm really not comfortable seeing others suffer the same as me. I guess you can't undo what you know if that makes sense? So yes, I think sometimes it's really helpful to have people with similar experience to bounce things off but other times you really want to be with someone who's just a good listener and supports you and can offer an unbiased opinion.

PJaddicted

decides2dream wrote:

i don't wanna think, i wanna feel.....





i was just thinking about that....and yes, i think it comes down to feelings. no matter WHAT we *know*....we just can't *feel* everything if we don't actually experience it. i will NEVER know what it's like to get high on heroin. ever. people can explain it, doctors and experts study it, 'know' so much about it....but the ONLY people who can KNOW what it FEELS like, are those with DIRECT experience. so yes, it is NOT to discount the validity of opinions, but just that sometimes...i think people want to directly relate to people who HAVE experienced what they have experienced. almost all support groups are based on such thinking...so yes, i guess that's really where my mind is at. sometimes people just want to identify/share with people who DO know, first-hand.....what they too know first-hand..compare and contrast...and just share that SHARED experience....whether it be a pearl jam concert, marriage, being single, having children, visiting paris, surviving cancer, losing a spouse/child, quitting smoking, etc....without EVER being 'in their shoes'...cannot FULLY share that ALL. just my own thoughts on it.....and i personally respect that fine line....and whateva.......:p haha.

Speaking of being in ones shoes, this is the one I've had to deal with the most over the last few years, I love it when people who only have little children think they know it all about how to parent....especially about parenting teens....I just and think.......just wait, your fun has yet to begin! You can read all about it, and you were a teen yourself...but until you experience it with your own children....you really have no clue as to how you will parent them. My kids are the oldest of all our friends children...so it has been fun watching just how humble everyone becomes when it is their turn! I've never said a word to anyone when they have tried to tell me what I was doing wrong, or what they would do...... now they come to me...and ask for help!

oxc

decides2dream

PJaddicted wrote:

Speaking of being in ones shoes, this is the one I've had to deal with the most over the last few years, I love it when people who only have little children think they know it all about how to parent....especially about parenting teens....I just and think.......just wait, your fun has yet to begin! You can read all about it, and you were a teen yourself...but until you experience it with your own children....you really have no clue as to how you will parent them. My kids are the oldest of all our friends children...so it has been fun watching just how humble everyone becomes when it is their turn! I've never said a word to anyone when they have tried to tell me what I was doing wrong, or what they would do...... now they come to me...and ask for help!

oxc

EXACTLY!
the same for MANY things...and some things one may NEVER experience and thus will never 'fully' KNOW. that's life.


and jeanie...

Jeanie wrote:

So yes, I think sometimes it's really helpful to have people with similar experience to bounce things off but other times you really want to be with someone who's just a good listener and supports you and can offer an unbiased opinion.

i absolutely agree! was never suggesting otherwise! it's all about the attitude about it tho...coming off like one 'knows it all'......that was really it.

in the most simplist of terms, as i said earlier...you can describe everything about a blueberry, but if i NEVEr taste it...i will never truly KNOW what it tastes like eh? that's all.

even people with similar experiences totally can be sooo different, but they DO have at least lived the experience. that's it. i can learn, i can be knowledgeable...i can observe....but without living certain things, i just can't *know* it all. it's like guessing what you'd do in a certain situation. it's JUST an educated guess. until IN the situation, can't really know 100%.


and i missed this earlier:

audiodave wrote:

I can't possibly imagine who the OP means. Honest.

The thing that really gets to me is when people claim their opinion as fact. I'll admit i'm guilty of going on about stuff i've little experience of. I'm 21, i've little experience of most things. But I always try to make sure it's clear that what i'm saying is my opinion, based on my experiences, or lack thereof. To parade around like what you're saying is the gospel when you can't see past your own blinkered world view just drives me insane.

Another thing that gets to me is selective quoting. If people are having a debate, there are those on here who choose only to see the points that they want to argue with, and completely ignore the ones that shoot them down in flames. It's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALALALA" when someone says something you don't want to hear.

great post!
and sure, it's NOT all JUST about 'having experience'.....absolutely we all can know and think things without that...it's the 'authority' of an opnion voiced, especially when voiced over and over, that is what gets me. of course, i guess i am doing that in this very thread. haha. although, i have said from the get-go...i in NO way mean i am an 'expert' at anything, nor to infringe on others sharing....just discussing what is a bizarre phenomena, at least to me. i just don't think i'll ever *get* it fully.


and your last point..........ggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! sooooo agree! and even beyond that, just toally not READING what you typed. and how do you KNOW they didn't read it? b/c their response is soooo OFF! or i should say they read it, but see what they want to see in it. sure, i guess we're all guilty of reading between/behind the lines...but really, beyond that...it IS good to read the words for what they are too.

Vedd Hedd

the ones who have few life experiences yet try to come across as experts, in my expreience, do so becasue they are insecure.

norm

Vedd Hedd wrote:

the ones who have few life experiences yet try to come across as experts, in my expreience, do so becasue they are insecure.

nail hit on the head

chiquimonkey

Vedd Hedd wrote:

the ones who have few life experiences yet try to come across as experts, in my expreience, do so becasue they are insecure.

right on. and that is a motivation for a lot of things, really.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

They don't have to be an industry expert, they just have to know more than you do.

Which is why god created the reply feature on message boards...

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

Well even with people sharing an identical experience their interpretation of said experience will vary. You've only got to look at eye witness statements to see just how much they can vary! I think perhaps even if you've not experienced something that someone is talking about there still may be elements of the situation that resonate and could apply to your own experience. It's possible depending on how you interpret and communicate you could offer something very helpful to a person. That's the beauty of communication and connection it's as individual as the individuals involved and the circumstances. I've noticed myself that even on some very dark days, others that haven't experienced what I am going through can offer some really amazing help simply by being more detached from the situation than me. I've come to trust in those people and welcome their counsel because it has proven to be such a blessing. The support they give, the hand holding, the shoulder to cry on, well those things are invaluable. I don't know dream, I suppose I've been referred to support groups on numerous occasions but I'm really not comfortable seeing others suffer the same as me. I guess you can't undo what you know if that makes sense? So yes, I think sometimes it's really helpful to have people with similar experience to bounce things off but other times you really want to be with someone who's just a good listener and supports you and can offer an unbiased opinion.

Lovely post Jeanie

Also, I love the way some people here are experts on why some people think they are experts on certain things without experiencing it Until you're in MY shoes or somebody elses shoes, you really don't know what we know or how we know it. I would never make little of somebody elses opinion. I would take their advice but to say 'how would you know? You've never experienced it' is EXTREMELY patronising and a lazy way of getting your point across... and it's something I've stopped myself from saying on several occasions FOR that reason! There is a thread on British weather right now... I don't live in Britain but we have similar weather... and ya know what... I'm gonna post in it

decides2dream

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

They don't have to be an industry expert, they just have to know more than you do.

Which is why god created the reply feature on message boards...

and how would they know they know more than me?



i REALLY would love to know WHERE people get the notion that i am suggesting the ONLY people who post on a given topic BE an 'expert'....? seriously?


first post:

decides2dream wrote:

seem anyway...that those with the least life *experience* of certain things so often come off as the *experts* on a given topic? spewing opinion after opinion like an 'authority' on a given topic or simply feel the need to espouse their thoughts/beliefs on a subject they know little to none about? or, when someone poses a question to a specific demographic, 90% of the respondents seem to be NOT the demographic questioned?



is it some sort of bizarre twist of human nature? is it the internet? and no, i am in NO way saying those with little to no experience or who were not directly asked to participate NOT do so - all ARe entitled to their opinions and to SHARE them, of COURSE - but i think it's a weird phenomena at best.



just curious....

what exactly there says ANYthing that one needs 'qualifications' to post? it was a QUESTION as to WHy you might think someone with little to no experience MAY comment LIKE they are 'experts'......that was all.


yes, i was focusing on 'real-life experience'...but ya know, that WOULD include education on a given topic and/or observations to some degree. besides which...i said it seems.....meaning it is obviously MY personal pov, not saying it's an expert pov at all. sheesh.

norm

decides2dream wrote:

seem anyway...that those with the least life *experience* of certain things so often come off as the *experts* on a given topic? spewing opinion after opinion like an 'authority' on a given topic or simply feel the need to espouse their thoughts/beliefs on a subject they know little to none about? or, when someone poses a question to a specific demographic, 90% of the respondents seem to be NOT the demographic questioned?



is it some sort of bizarre twist of human nature? is it the internet? and no, i am in NO way saying those with little to no experience or who were not directly asked to participate NOT do so - all ARe entitled to their opinions and to SHARE them, of COURSE - but i think it's a weird phenomena at best.



just curious....

yeah people are strange

decides2dream

norm wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

seem anyway...that those with the least life *experience* of certain things so often come off as the *experts* on a given topic? spewing opinion after opinion like an 'authority' on a given topic or simply feel the need to espouse their thoughts/beliefs on a subject they know little to none about? or, when someone poses a question to a specific demographic, 90% of the respondents seem to be NOT the demographic questioned?



is it some sort of bizarre twist of human nature? is it the internet? and no, i am in NO way saying those with little to no experience or who were not directly asked to participate NOT do so - all ARe entitled to their opinions and to SHARE them, of COURSE - but i think it's a weird phenomena at best.



just curious....

yeah people are strange

insanity - doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.
what can i say, i felt like some online fun on a tuesday night.

dunkman

its like all those non-parents out there telling parents how to raise their kids... its like getting fashion tips from an american... or sex tips from an irish person... or tip tips from a scottish person... etc. :thumbup: