Americans!!! please confirm or deny this happens?

dunkman

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

um, you guys have never studied economics have you? there is nothing inherently "wrong" with capitalism, it is just type of market structure, the same as socialism. It's not a dirty word, and it doesn't mean "fucking over the poor..." at all.

not tipping is not being "capitalist". It's being selfish, but it's actually being anti-capitalist. tipping can be seen as part of capitalism (the better performance, the more money, that's like pure capitalism).

I hate when people use terms incorrectly.

have you ever used the term 'joke' or 'humour'?

evenkat

Hinny wrote:

I'm still confused about the bus :(

Oh I'm sorry, it was too early in the morning for me and I answered your first question incorrectly lol. No, you don't have to tip the bus driver. I was thinking more of a tourist bus trip. For instance when I was in Ireland we were told to tip our bus driver but he drove us around for 2 weeks.

I would never tip a bus driver going from one city to another or one state to another or going to Canada but I have tipped bus drivers taking us to baseball games in NYC and to casinos. Usually if a bus driver is looking for a tip he or she will pass an envelope around but it is optional. Remember no matter what, tipping is optional unless you're in a large party at a restaurant because the restaurant will just add the tip to you bill.

You'll be spending enough money here and in Canada so don't think you have to tip everyone.

Hope you have a great time!

failedpersephone

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

um, you guys have never studied economics have you? there is nothing inherently "wrong" with capitalism, it is just type of market structure, the same as socialism. It's not a dirty word, and it doesn't mean "fucking over the poor..." at all.

not tipping is not being "capitalist". It's being selfish, but it's actually being anti-capitalist. tipping can be seen as part of capitalism (the better performance, the more money, that's like pure capitalism).

I hate when people use terms incorrectly.

So the "Green" in your name stands for Greenspan?

can you explain why you kept hiking the rates during a possible recession?? that one never made sense.

:rolleyes:
by the way, tipping isn't a pure form of capitalism as a market structure...inasmuch as Dunk was explaining in his other tirades against the concept of tipping. you see, whether the service was good or not, as Americans we feel obligated to tip. It shouldn't be considered part of market reach of services rendered, because that is what we pay for the service/items at the onset, a tip is going beyond that price...which the market system would set based on supply/demand.

better performance=more money isn't exactly right, as far as what Capitalism means...it only means that private groups/citizens own and operate production means, and thus can reap benefits from their labors taking into account the level of supply versus amount their services/goods (commodities) are in demand.

GreenTeaDisease

failedpersephone wrote:

So the "Green" in your name stands for Greenspan?

can you explain why you kept hiking the rates during a possible recession?? that one never made sense.

actually it's Green as in environment.

failedpersephone wrote:

better performance=more money isn't exactly right, as far as what Capitalism means...it only means that private groups/citizens own and operate production means, and thus can reap benefits from their labors taking into account the level of supply versus amount their services/goods (commodities) are in demand.

Yes, I know what capitalism means, thanks. I was sparing everyone the entire lesson as it wasn't relevant. but there is an element of capitalism that rewards performance-it goes along with the public/private provision of goods. I was just making a point that dunk was actually being more anti-capitalist than capitalist in his claim that not tipping is a capitalist move.

_Crazy_Mary_

decides2dream wrote:

WOW.
are you truly serious? do you work in one of those 4-5 star restaurants? and even there....sheesh. i live in NY, work in manhattan....eat in restaurants in both, and 20% is considered a GOOD/fair/generous tip. it's pretty much my standard, i may go over a wee bit for exceptional service, if it's a holiday....or just to round off the $ amount at times....but i highly doubt i EVER tip above say 22% at most. 20% is it. for years 15% was the "standard"...don't remember when it upped to 20, but it absolutely customary for GOOD/great service. i can understand 'wanting' it...i just can't believe you actually get it!

I work in one of the two 'fine-dining' restaurants in my town. On average, the guest check is $50 per person. I want to make $10 in tips per person. I tip out (to the bussers, dishwashers and kitchen) 30% and end up making $7/person that I wait on. Obviously, I love when I get a 30% tip. That probably only happens once or twice a day. Last night I waited on two guys - there bill was $125 and they tipped me $35.


soulsinging, I do make minimum wage on top of my tips, which is $8/hr in California.

soulsinging

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

I work in one of the two 'fine-dining' restaurants in my town. On average, the guest check is $50 per person. I want to make $10 in tips per person. I tip out (to the bussers, dishwashers and kitchen) 30% and end up making $7/person that I wait on. Obviously, I love when I get a 30% tip. That probably only happens once or twice a day. Last night I waited on two guys - there bill was $125 and they tipped me $35.


soulsinging, I do make minimum wage on top of my tips, which is $8/hr in California.

sounds like i should have been waiting tables in cali, instead of anywhere else in america

GreenTeaDisease

soulsinging wrote:

sounds like i should have been waiting tables in cali, instead of anywhere else in america

even still, in a really expensive restaurant, waiting tables is a tough job that requires knowledge and skills. Minimum wage without tips is not a lot for that-without tips they may as well work at mcdonalds. This is why they need the tips!

Hinny

Another serious question here that's not meant to rile anyone up, but...

Don't you guys have minimum wage laws over in Americaland?

South of Seattle

Hinny wrote:

Another serious question here that's not meant to rile anyone up, but...

Don't you guys have minimum wage laws over in Americaland?

Yep we do. It varies by state I believe. Ours in Oregon is $7.50 an hour I think

Heineken Helen

redrock wrote:

Nope.. as much as I loved California my life there and my lovely friends, etc., having already had worked in Europe before that, I saw what the difference was. Didn't take me long to make up my mind.

Helen has probably gone home now.

I didn't mean to upset soulsingings feelings... I see he's still as bitter as ever... oh dear.

SS yes, you are right about the greed regarding workers in the US... I have absolutely no problem agreeing with you whatsoever.

What I have pointed out before on this thread though, is that NOBODY (with the possible exception of dunk, who knows?) is saying we WON'T tip... we're saying it's a stupid and fucking ridiculous way of paying staff... we're in agreement here so I dunno why you're being so argumentative :rolleyes:

You said greed is more evident in the US... I said it's everywhere... you retorted by saying it may be everywhere but there are laws outside the US to protect you... I'm agreeing. Happy now darling?

I'm not entirely sure what you want from me to be honest... your post was all about American greed and how America's the greediest country in the world and you went off on a rant, how am I supposed to reply exactly? Did you WANT me to continue DEBATING (not arguing)?... if it's just validation you're looking for, can you put that at the end of the post please?

Heineken Helen

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

yeah but in your protest you're hurting other people. If everyone suddenly stopped tipping, it's not going to do any good to "change the system", it's only going to make every server in the country homeless.

So it's up to them to be friendly then. I've no problem with bad (i.e. slow or confused) service... as long as it's polite and friendly. But if somebody is rude serving me... why the fuck should I CARE if they're left homeless or not? They're not my friend or family... if the situation is as you describe it then surely it's in their own best interest to be friendly. The one and ONLY time I have a problem tipping is when they're rude... it's one thing I will not tolerate and I'm certainly not gonna pay them for it.

There's one Polish girl working in the shop across the road... she's simply pig ignorant to everyone... 2 of my housemates are terrified of her. I dunno why they hire her. I've started being as rude to her as she was to me, i.e. no please and thank you and no smile... nothing but attitude... and guess what, she's started to be nice to me now what the fuck?

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

your post was all about American greed and how America's the greediest country in the world and you went off on a rant, how am I supposed to reply exactly? Did you WANT me to continue DEBATING (not arguing)?... if it's just validation you're looking for, can you put that at the end of the post please?

what i want is to know if you really disagree with that statement. america is the greediest country in the world. i never said there is no greed anywhere else. i said america is the greediest. and it shows in our laws, our values, our customs, etc. what i want is to know if you seriously disagree with that. or if you simply wrote your sarcastic and irrelevant response about there being greed elsewhere (which had nothing to do with what i wrote) becos every fiber of your being resists admitting that someone else might have a point.

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

becos every fiber of your being resists admitting that someone else might have a point.

Perhaps you should read other peoples response before you go off on one:

Heineken Helen wrote:

SS yes, you are right about the greed regarding workers in the US... I have absolutely no problem agreeing with you whatsoever.

You said greed is more evident in the US... I said it's everywhere... you retorted by saying it may be everywhere but there are laws outside the US to protect you... I'm agreeing. Happy now darling?

Did you miss these bits SS? How much clearer do you want it to be?

As for your question about whether or not I think America is the greediest country in the world... I'm not well up enough on ALL the countries in the world to agree OR disagree with that. (although I'm sure you'll see this as me being argumentitive) I'm not a HUGE fan of Saudi Arabia either.

Pegasus

dunkman wrote:

aye.. its not the actual tipping, its the defense of the system by people when it is so obviously flawed.


its akin to me defending working sundays all day in a supermarket.. nobody should work sundays, its a nice day for everyone to have off.. so while its a customary thing here for certain people to work sundays doesnt mean i agree with it and that I will use my last breath to defend it... the opposite.. its a shit system for people who should be at home nursing hangovers... but because of consumerism they have to work.. its crap

well, I'd much rather work on a Sunday (when I practically never do anything anyway..and if no-one was working on Sundays, there would be nothing to be done at all) and have the Thursday and Friday off in exchange (you get paid double on Sunday).

My point is some people are very happy to work Sundays (or nights)

dunkman

Pegasus wrote:

well, I'd much rather work on a Sunday (when I practically never do anything anyway..and if no-one was working on Sundays, there would be nothing to be done at all) and have the Thursday and Friday off in exchange (you get paid double on Sunday).

My point is some people are very happy to work Sundays (or nights)

thats your choice and i'm ok with that... thats you defending that people work a Sunday.. now i personally think its shit that we are all so consumer driven that we cant have a day when shops are shut... but thats just me.. but my point was not the working of a sunday per se... but me defending that when i dont think its a good idea.

so GreenT and Souly were kinda defending the mechanisms for the tipping culture of the US.. but even Souly knows the system is fucking flawed to pieces but he still defended it using customs, american greed, etc.

now i dont like working sundays ergo i'll not come on here and say its a good thing.. but you do so thats fine.. but i find it nigh on impossible to believe thats someone actually likes the tipping method over there.. that they think its a good idea... cos it doesnt have one benefit that i can see.. not one.

acoustic guy

I was wondering where you all were. I waned to join the discussion here but honestly, you all are giving me a freakin headache.

soulsinging

dunkman wrote:

thats your choice and i'm ok with that... thats you defending that people work a Sunday.. now i personally think its shit that we are all so consumer driven that we cant have a day when shops are shut... but thats just me.. but my point was not the working of a sunday per se... but me defending that when i dont think its a good idea.

so GreenT and Souly were kinda defending the mechanisms for the tipping culture of the US.. but even Souly knows the system is fucking flawed to pieces but he still defended it using customs, american greed, etc.

now i dont like working sundays ergo i'll not come on here and say its a good thing.. but you do so thats fine.. but i find it nigh on impossible to believe thats someone actually likes the tipping method over there.. that they think its a good idea... cos it doesnt have one benefit that i can see.. not one.

do you know the difference between defense and explanation?

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

Perhaps you should read other peoples response before you go off on one:

Did you miss these bits SS? How much clearer do you want it to be?

As for your question about whether or not I think America is the greediest country in the world... I'm not well up enough on ALL the countries in the world to agree OR disagree with that. (although I'm sure you'll see this as me being argumentitive) I'm not a HUGE fan of Saudi Arabia either.

for the sake of us both not spending the whole day smashing our respective heads against brick walls, ill say "cool. got it."

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

for the sake of us both not spending the whole day smashing our respective heads against brick walls, ill say "cool. got it."

I'll accept that as your apology then so

Forgiven!

There was no head banging against brick... I agreed with you a long time ago, you're the one who seems to be turning it into some kinda heated argument when we're both agreeing that the system is fucked. Start a relationship thread and I'll argue with ya there SS but you're not getting one out of me here, ok?

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

I'll accept that as your apology then so

Forgiven!

There was no head banging against brick... I agreed with you a long time ago, you're the one who seems to be turning it into some kinda heated argument when we're both agreeing that the system is fucked. Start a relationship thread and I'll argue with ya there SS but you're not getting one out of me here, ok?

*sigh*

and we were so close to peace...

1. not an apology. a truce.

2. you just proved my point by being utterly unable to accept any responsibility for anything and inevitably place blame on someone else for anything amiss becos god knows you have NEVER been wrong or made a mistake before.

3. i have no idea what you think i'm trying to get out of you. i said the greed in the UK and europe cannot compare to the greed in America. i havent seen you offer one bit of evidence or logic to rebut that.

4. i know you cannot address number 3. the posts you quoted to me do not address number 3 and vastly distort and misinterpret my argument to suit your purposes. mentioning saudi arabia does not address number 3, but to play along: it's a good second, but still only second.

5. stay in construction. you would get humiliated in a profession that requires reason and substantive support for your positions.