Americans!!! please confirm or deny this happens?

soulsinging

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

I would disagree that it is a myth. however, basic economic theory seems to suggest that is happens instantaneously, which is not the case. It will happen IMO, but it may take much much longer than may be expected, and many costs may also be incurred in the transition.

those cost are prohibitive to most workers, making it practically (not as in "almost," as in "a realistic fact") impossible to actually change jobs.

soulsinging

dunkman wrote:

nope.. you dont HAVE to.. some people leave a few pounds here and there in a nice restaurant.. but a bog standard coffee shop place serving you coffee and a bagel.. shit no...


most pubs/hotels/inns etc wont require a tip.. its nice to leave say the change.. i.e. if the meal comes to £32.65 then a few people will leave the change sitting for the waitress... otherwise we dont really do it.. no need... the staff get paid $10+ an hour..

WITH tips i didnt make $10 an hour waiting tables, nor did anyone i work with. i dont table at coffee or bagel shops either. they dont give you service, they give you a product. that tip is optional (and stupidly pointless in my estimation).

dunkman

Urban Hiker wrote:

Well, I'm definitely going to have to revisit that book and do the research for places where you are handed a bill and you pay what it states. They will move up on my travel wishlist.
It's hard doing math after a few pints! :rolleyes:

dont tip barstaff in Scotland... if it comes to £5.90 then pay £5,90... they will happily give you the change and not expect that you leave them anything.. the nice thing to do here is sometimes say "oh and one for yourself".. then they will either choose to have the drink after their shift knowing you've paid for it or will take cost of the drink and put it into a tip jar.. this is something people do when they have a 'local' and they know the barstaff.. not normally a 'strangers' thing

GreenTeaDisease

soulsinging wrote:

those cost are prohibitive to most workers, making it practically (not as in "almost," as in "a realistic fact") impossible to actually change jobs.

the question is short run or long run. I do not think it happens in the short run. I think it does happen in the long run, the extent of it happening in the long run is a question for the working econometricians. This is not an anecdotal topic that either you or I should be giving hard opinions on since neither of us have a PhD in labor economics, and I doubt that you are anymore up on the literature than I am.

dunkman

soulsinging wrote:

WITH tips i didnt make $10 an hour waiting tables, nor did anyone i work with. i dont table at coffee or bagel shops either. they dont give you service, they give you a product. that tip is optional (and stupidly pointless in my estimation).

in the UK its:-
£5.52 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older

thats roughly $11 per hour... and i'll give you the cost of a meal at a bar in London we all met at last year and compare it to your places and see where they rip off the staff and not the customer.



5oz rump steak from the British Isles

Served with chips, salad and peas.

£5.49 (about $11)


is that so much more expensive than the US? that was from a restaurant in London... thats a good price

GreenTeaDisease

dunkman wrote:

in the UK its:-
£5.52 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older

thats roughly $11 per hour... and i'll give you the cost of a meal at a bar in London we all met at last year and compare it to your places and see where they rip off the staff and not the customer.



5oz rump steak from the British Isles

Served with chips, salad and peas.

£5.49 (about $11)


is that so much more expensive than the US? that was from a restaurant in London... thats a good price

I'm not sure I know what a rump steak is...that example makes it sound cheap, but dude, NUTTIN in london is cheap...I'm still paying off meals I ate there 3 years later!

dunkman

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

I'm not sure I know what a rump steak is...that example makes it sound cheap, but dude, NUTTIN in london is cheap...I'm still paying off meals I ate there 3 years later!

you must go to the wrong places..

i've eaten out in london lots of times.. i find it quite reasonable overall.. some places are exspensive and some are ok..



8oz sirloin steak
Our specially selected prime sirloin is succulent and tender. Origin of sirloin – South America.
£6.59 ($13)

no tip... its $13!!!! guy/gal gets paid $11 an hour... everyone is happy

chime

Urban Hiker wrote:

It's hard doing math after a few pints! :rolleyes:

If you hate doing the maths (although I'm guessing drink is not usually involved) you'll like the fact that sales tax (VAT) is included in the price in shops. The price on the product is the price you pay Might not like that in the UK that's 17.5% though

soulsinging

dunkman wrote:

in the UK its:-
£5.52 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older

thats roughly $11 per hour... and i'll give you the cost of a meal at a bar in London we all met at last year and compare it to your places and see where they rip off the staff and not the customer.


5oz rump steak from the British Isles

Served with chips, salad and peas.

£5.49 (about $11)

is that so much more expensive than the US? that was from a restaurant in London... thats a good price

that's way cheaper than in the US. i dont know what a rump steak is, but based on your sirloin estimate, steaks in america from a reputable place are usually at least $15. i think you forget the chief difference between our cultures. the ONLY thing that matters here is profit. period. nothing else matters. we overcharge you for your steak and minimize labor costs. perhaps in london restaurants are ok making a profit, whereas here that's not good enough... you have to DOUBLE your investment! it's a sick system. but it's a symptom of american devotion to absolute free market capitalism and that's a value judgment that can be argued but is not going to change. my point has never been the system is wise or a good one. only that it's fucked up to take it out on the person least able to do a damn thing about it (joe waiter who works for manager making the obscene profit off system and using that profit to buy the influence to perpetuate the system).

Urban Hiker

dunkman wrote:

dont tip barstaff in Scotland... if it comes to £5.90 then pay £5,90... they will happily give you the change and not expect that you leave them anything.. the nice thing to do here is sometimes say "oh and one for yourself".. then they will either choose to have the drink after their shift knowing you've paid for it or will take cost of the drink and put it into a tip jar.. this is something people do when they have a 'local' and they know the barstaff.. not normally a 'strangers' thing

Thanks, dunk. I dream of doing a bicycle pub tour through the UK. All the more reason.

dunkman

Urban Hiker wrote:

Thanks, dunk. I dream of doing a bicycle pub tour through the UK. All the more reason.

oh dont thank me.. thank a fair and just system free from the chains of profit over people

norm

dunkman wrote:

oh dont thank me.. thank a fair and just system free from the chains of profit over people ; )

jesus hasselhoff christ dunk....let it go man.....we tip.....you eat sheep stomach.....neither of us is perfect!

dunkman

cutback wrote:

jesus hasselhoff christ dunk....let it go man.....we tip.....you eat sheep stomach.....neither of us is perfect!

i married Mary Poppins.. i'm practically perfect in every way

says so in Dunkipedia.. must be true

Steve Dunne

dunkman wrote:

i married Mary Poppins.. i'm practically perfect in every way

says so in Dunkipedia.. must be true

you should change your username to Bert.

Hinny

I keep making these posts about tipping and how I'm totally opposed to this need to pay whatever above the listed price, but let's face it, I don't understand any of this shit, so when I'm there in 2 weeks time I'm just gonna let my local hosts take care of this shit while I twiddle my thumbs. Either that, Or I'll hand over a bank note that's wayyyyy more than what I really ought to be paying cos I'm used to a sane bank note system where each denomination has a different colour. That all your notes are green is another absurd thing I'll need to laugh at another day

The problem will be when I'm by myself. I'll ask whoever's 'serving' me anyway, but just in case someone tries to rort me...

My actual questions:

1. Do I need to tip the bus driver on my way from Seattle to Vancouver airport?
2. Do I need to tip the guy at customs, or whatever it is that happens when I cross the border?
3. Do I need to tip the coffee cart guy at VAN airport?

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

i've never heard of anything remotely like this. we shared tips with bartenders and busboys as well, still only made $2 an hour. perhaps california has some legislation in place addressing this. were you an american citizen? the point remains... you still got tipped on top of your minimum wage didnt you? becos it is american cultural norm that servers are tipped.

We get tipped over here too if ya work in the service industry... on TOP of your minimum wage. I worked in a VERY fancy restaurant as one of my first jobs, was on just above minimum wage and still made £10-20 on a good night. A tip should be a tip... i.e. an extra. You say the customers pay the wages... what happens if you're laid off? Do we pay the redundancy too? When we go in, do they say 'oh yeh, server A and D are on holiday at the moment so there's gonna be an extra 10% on top of your tip to pay for their holiday pay?

I don't think ANYONE is saying they WON'T tip... I for one am always very generous when it comes to tipping depending on the service. However we are simply saying that it is a completely ridiculous concept that it's only those in the service industry who don't actually get paid from their employers but by their customers. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

just because its customary doesnt mean that the system is flawed and stinks to high heaven... ergo i will complain about it.

its customary in Liberia to hack off the clitoris of a new born girl.. doesnt mean i shouldnt complain about it... (cue a Trixie comment of your ANALogy is crap)

ok... i've remembered one.. its a custom in Scotland that you cant buy alcohol on a sunday before 12.30pm... that fucking sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

see... i could try and defend that one but i realise its a shit historical thing to do with churches and that god bloke.. so i call it out on its shitness.. just as tipping is a shit custom.

All pubs in Ireland used to be closed on Paddys day cos it's a religious day... there's a shit custom that complaining and tourism managed to change

Heineken Helen

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

it's all customs though, be they economic (tips), religious (say, covering your head as a woman), whatever. the point is that with any custom, you can prepare before you travel, and if you chose not to adhere to it, then you wind up looking like the ass, and no one cares if you are trying to make point. Hell once in ireland I reached for a guinness before the head was ready and got chewed out by the bar tender for not knowing the custom.

well he was just an ass... I've worked in pubs before and had American customers try to do that and I just find it funny and tell them it's not ready yet. Fuck I had a South African manager in an Irish pub who didn't KNOW how to pull a pint of guinness and pulled it like lager... serving it to Irish customers :eek: that was funny! Very few complaints though... they'd look at the pint and then look at me like 'what the fuck' so I'd pull them another one and just took him aside and had to explain.

Heineken Helen

Urban Hiker wrote:

Pardon me for being slow, but I'm having some sort of mind block preventing me from believing this.

I don't have to tip wait staff in Scotland!? Are there other countries like this? I have a travel book that goes over some basics of just about every traveled country, but I don't recall it covering this VIP (very important point).

Like in the US, if I can get my Starbucks at a grocery store where the staff is already paid a good wage and it's store policy NOT to accept tips, I go there.

There are many countries where tipping is simply CUSTOMARY (unlike the US where as redrock pointed out, it's apparently an economic necessity) so like Ireland and the UK, in restaurants, ya tip if you want... it's up to the individual... usually those who tip are pretty generous and you're not overly bothered about those who don't cos you get paid anyway. Bar staff aren't generally tipped but it's still ok to do so and they like it.

Hmm... I never tipped at starbucks in the states :eek: . I thought they get paid... they didn't have to come over to my table or anything. Oh actually maybe I did, I remember definitely tipping in the one close to the vic though cos the staff were nice and they were letting bunches of us use the toilet all day.

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

that's way cheaper than in the US. i dont know what a rump steak is, but based on your sirloin estimate, steaks in america from a reputable place are usually at least $15. i think you forget the chief difference between our cultures. the ONLY thing that matters here is profit. period. nothing else matters. we overcharge you for your steak and minimize labor costs. perhaps in london restaurants are ok making a profit, whereas here that's not good enough... you have to DOUBLE your investment! it's a sick system. but it's a symptom of american devotion to absolute free market capitalism and that's a value judgment that can be argued but is not going to change. my point has never been the system is wise or a good one. only that it's fucked up to take it out on the person least able to do a damn thing about it (joe waiter who works for manager making the obscene profit off system and using that profit to buy the influence to perpetuate the system).

That is very true :cool: capitalism does NOT exist in a major city like London... the owners are very happy to make sure the customer is happy and just cover the cost and some extra little pocket money for themselves... London's a very happy place like that. Such genuine people, no care for profit! :rolleyes:

That is a standard example... if you eat out over here... you get your bill... this covers: food; service; overheads; tax; profit, EVERYTHING! All in the one figure... no calculating anything. If you're impressed with everything and happy by the end of the meal you can leave a little bit extra to simply spread some loving!