Americans!!! please confirm or deny this happens?

dunkman

chuck nevitt wrote:

.... As a matter of fact, if you use your debit card at a restaurant, the bank will "hold" more money than your check, thinking you will leave a tip.

this was on the 'fucked' thread on the porch...

is this really how it works.. how does your bank know at 11.21pm you are swiping at a restaurant and not just buying something online.. i just dont believe this.. i then found this

Another example can be seen with a restaurant transaction. If an individual spends $40 at a meal, the server does not know how large a tip they will leave, if they choose to leave one on the card. The restaurant's credit card terminal is typically set to authorize a larger amount, such as 20% above the cost of the meal, but the transaction will settle for the actual total including the actual tip written on the receipt. Some restaurants will authorize just the amount of the bill but the transaction will settle higher with the tip included. Acquirers sometimes forbid the practice of preauthorizing an amount including a tip, but will guarantee settlement of the amount authorized plus 15 or 20%


is the guy i quoted meaning the restaurants credit card terminal and not 'the bank'? cos that i can understand (almost)..

TrixieCat

dunkman wrote:

this was on the 'fucked' thread on the porch...

is this really how it works.. how does your bank know at 11.21pm you are swiping at a restaurant and not just buying something online.. i just dont believe this.. i then found this

Another example can be seen with a restaurant transaction. If an individual spends $40 at a meal, the server does not know how large a tip they will leave, if they choose to leave one on the card. The restaurant's credit card terminal is typically set to authorize a larger amount, such as 20% above the cost of the meal, but the transaction will settle for the actual total including the actual tip written on the receipt. Some restaurants will authorize just the amount of the bill but the transaction will settle higher with the tip included. Acquirers sometimes forbid the practice of preauthorizing an amount including a tip, but will guarantee settlement of the amount authorized plus 15 or 20%


is the guy i quoted meaning the restaurants credit card terminal and not 'the bank'? cos that i can understand (almost)..

From what I remember...it is a pending charge when the card is first swiped by the waitperson, before it is brought back to the table. If the tip is left on the card, the waitperson just adds that to the total..they go back into the machine and change the amount. Same with a charge card.

So what you found is correct.

edit...sorry...yes it is the restaurant's terminal set that way.

dunkman

TrixieCat wrote:

From what I remember...it is a pending charge when the card is first swiped by the waitperson, before it is brought back to the table. If the tip is left on the card, the waitperson just adds that to the total..they go back into the machine and change the amount. Same with a charge card.

So what you found is correct.

edit...sorry...yes it is the restaurant's terminal set that way.

yeah.. its not the bank is it? i didnt think it could be... that'd just be a tipping me over the edge of the tipping void so it would

Steve Dunne

this is making me miss Ireland. I was there 5 years ago today. A pint of Guinness was 5 euro. No more, no less, no tipping.

rival.

i work in hotels and we are notorious for putting large holds on a guest's debit card.

i shouldn't say "we," because it is actually the bank putting a hold on your account. but what happens is, when a guest checks in and presents a debit card as a method of payment, the front desk clerk swipes the card through the system. the system reads it as a debit card, reads how long the guest's reservation is for and THEN puts a hold on their account (say the guest is staying for 3 nights, at a $200 rate... the system will put about a $700 hold on the card). basically, this is just a safety net for the hotel... just incase the guest's checking account is wiped out during their stay, the bank already has money set aside for the hotel.

the best system? no. lots of bitching guests? yes.

dunkman

anyone from the banking industry able to tell me.. cos there are 2 or 3 guys on that 'Fucked' thread saying the bank KNOWS you are in a restaurant and it holds 20% more than your total at the till.... i just dont believe that... but if someone who works in a bank/finance sector links me up with something official then i'll believe it.


on a side note.. any restaurant presumptuous enough to withhold 20% of my fucking money for their tip will not be getting a tip when i'm ever there next year

dunkman

singularity wrote:

i work in hotels and we are notorious for putting large holds on a guest's debit card.

i shouldn't say "we," because it is actually the bank putting a hold on your account. but what happens is, when a guest checks in and presents a debit card as a method of payment, the front desk clerk swipes the card through the system. the system reads it as a debit card, reads how long the guest's reservation is for and THEN puts a hold on their account (say the guest is staying for 3 nights, at a $200 rate... the system will put about a $700 hold on the card). basically, this is just a safety net for the hotel... just incase the guest's checking account is wiped out during their stay, the bank already has money set aside for the hotel.

the best system? no. lots of bitching guests? yes.

ok thanks.. again thats the retailer/hotel/business doing the 'holding'... basically if you swiped that card through and charged him the $200 then the bank wouldnt add the other $400 KNOWING he was in a hotel would it...

this is becoming much clearer thanks

TrixieCat

dunkman wrote:

anyone from the banking industry able to tell me.. cos there are 2 or 3 guys on that 'Fucked' thread saying the bank KNOWS you are in a restaurant and it holds 20% more than your total at the till.... i just dont believe that... but if someone who works in a bank/finance sector links me up with something official then i'll believe it.


on a side note.. any restaurant presumptuous enough to withhold 20% of my fucking money for their tip will not be getting a tip when i'm ever there next year

Of course the bank knows that the terminal is in a restaurant. It is the bank's terminal.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/237788_overcharge24.html

http://ask.metafilter.com/42819/Ive-been-charged-exactly-20-tip-twice-at-restuarant-where-Ive-tipped-slightly-less-Is-this-legal

Another example farther down 2nd article:
"Another example: if you buy gas with a credit card, the pump makes the authorization first and doesn't know how much you'll pump. So it places an authorization for $75 or so, effectively making sure that amount of credit is available to you, then you pump the gas and it makes a charge for the actual amount. Restaurants don't know how much you'll tip, so they can't make the actual charge when they take the card to the register, but they want to make sure you have the money, so they might make an authorization for bill +20% as a routine matter to make sure you have the money and then charge whatever you wrote on the receipt."

dunkman

TrixieCat wrote:

Of course the bank knows that the terminal is in a restaurant. It is the bank's terminal.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/237788_overcharge24.html

http://ask.metafilter.com/42819/Ive-been-charged-exactly-20-tip-twice-at-restuarant-where-Ive-tipped-slightly-less-Is-this-legal

Another example farther down 2nd article:
"Another example: if you buy gas with a credit card, the pump makes the authorization first and doesn't know how much you'll pump. So it places an authorization for $75 or so, effectively making sure that amount of credit is available to you, then you pump the gas and it makes a charge for the actual amount. Restaurants don't know how much you'll tip, so they can't make the actual charge when they take the card to the register, but they want to make sure you have the money, so they might make an authorization for bill +20% as a routine matter to make sure you have the money and then charge whatever you wrote on the receipt."

wow... seriously... wow!!!!

be warned Florida and Virginia... i'm not tipping and i'll pay everything in cash

rival.

dunkman wrote:

ok thanks.. again thats the retailer/hotel/business doing the 'holding'... basically if you swiped that card through and charged him the $200 then the bank wouldnt add the other $400 KNOWING he was in a hotel would it...

this is becoming much clearer thanks

well, say the guest has $650 in charges, and the hold was for $700. once that $650 charge gets approved by the bank, they will process that amount, and THEN the $700 gets released back into their account in full. it's confusing and looks like a double charge at first, but the hold always gets released back into the guest's account 3-5 days after they check out.

and i can't speak for every merchant's systems... but for our hotel company, i know our system sends out a REQUEST to the bank for the hold, and it is up to them to approve or deny it. of course 99.9% of the time, they will approve it... but the bank is the one putting a hold on your card, not the retailer.

when the guest calls the hotel to dispute the hold, we have to contact the bank and try and get them to release it. it is nothing we can do on our end... 100% up to the bank.

Heineken Helen

singularity wrote:

well, say the guest has $650 in charges, and the hold was for $700. once that $650 charge gets approved by the bank, they will process that amount, and THEN the $700 gets released back into their account in full. it's confusing and looks like a double charge at first, but the hold always gets released back into the guest's account 3-5 days after they check out.

that's fucked up... so if you pay something with your debit card, you actually have to make sure you've DOUBLE the amount in your account?

dunkman

singularity wrote:

well, say the guest has $650 in charges, and the hold was for $700. once that $650 charge gets approved by the bank, they will process that amount, and THEN the $700 gets released back into their account in full. it's confusing and looks like a double charge at first, but the hold always gets released back into the guest's account 3-5 days after they check out.

and i can't speak for every merchant's systems... but for our hotel company, i know our system sends out a REQUEST to the bank for the hold, and it is up to them to approve or deny it. of course 99.9% of the time, they will approve it... but the bank is the one putting a hold on your card, not the retailer.

when the guest calls the hotel to dispute the hold, we have to contact the bank and try and get them to release it. it is nothing we can do on our end... 100% up to the bank.

but the bank is only holding what you've requested them to hold... like Trixies restaurant example.. the Thai 65 guy didnt know his machine was holding an extra 20% so he changed that... but the 'bank' wasnt technically adding on the 20% just cos the guy was using it in a restaurant.. it just that the machine is owned by the bank and its calibrated to add 20% to the withheld charge.


here's how it works here in Scotland

me: can i have the steak please?
lady: sure thing

*30 mins later and much wiping of lips*

me: that was lovely.. can i have the bill please
lady: sure i'll bring it over

*places bill down on table*

me: hey wife.. its £29.98 for us both.. shall i just use my card?
her: sure

*pays £29.98 with card and goes home*




mind you Scotland invented modern economics... we know how to do it right

Heineken Helen

Here's how it REALLY works in Scotland:

dunkman wrote:

*me and wife look at menu*

me: fuck me, £14.99 for a fucking steak? :eek:

wife: that's fucking ridiculous, we could eat for a month on that.

me: come on, let's go home

wife: aye




mind you Scotland invented modern economics... we know how to do it right

rival.

Heineken Helen wrote:

that's fucked up... so if you pay something with your debit card, you actually have to make sure you've DOUBLE the amount in your account?

yeah, pretty much! so just some advice, DON'T use a debit card in a hotel!

but, i don't think its really that fucked up, because it is preventing alot of dead beats from checking into hotels.

imagine if they do not run holds. you would have people checking into hotels for an extended period of time with only $10 in their checking account, and ditching out on a bill that can be thousands!

GraySaturday

I know there is a sign on a lot of gas pumps that they can hold like 100 dollars if your money regardless of the amount you spend.

Dunk, I know my bank only puts up a pending charge of the exact amount I paid (no tip) but in a few days the real transaction appears and its more because of the tip settling in. But I wouldn't put it past some banks/places to hold more. Maybe mine does but online it doesn't show up?

I've been told at hotels to use a credit card not debit because you can get really screwed while traveling

Heineken Helen

singularity wrote:

yeah, pretty much! so just some advice, DON'T use a debit card in a hotel!

but, i don't think its really that fucked up, because it is preventing alot of dead beats from checking into hotels.

imagine if they do not run holds. you would have people checking into hotels for an extended period of time with only $10 in their checking account, and ditching out on a bill that can be thousands!

I've used my debit card to 'hold a room' here before and then paid with cash when checking out. I'm sure those things happen but I seriously doubt it's that much of a problem that you have to have double in your account.

_Crazy_Mary_

GraySaturday wrote:

I know there is a sign on a lot of gas pumps that they can hold like 100 dollars if your money regardless of the amount you spend.

Dunk, I know my bank only puts up a pending charge of the exact amount I paid (no tip) but in a few days the real transaction appears and its more because of the tip settling in. But I wouldn't put it past some banks/places to hold more. Maybe mine does but online it doesn't show up?

I've been told at hotels to use a credit card not debit because you can get really screwed while traveling

This has happened to me at gas stations. Swipe your card and automatically $75 or $100 is pre-authorized and is held on the card for two or three days.

Hinny

With this tipping business, do you guys carry a calculator around with you to work out what's 15% of the price or something?

KosmicJelli

The tavern my friend works at the credit card/debit machine leaves tip amount to be written in by the customer...

soulsinging

Hinny wrote:

With this tipping business, do you guys carry a calculator around with you to work out what's 15% of the price or something?

we've learned this thing called math in these things we have called schools. maybe they haven't made it to the outback yet?

rival.

Hinny wrote:

With this tipping business, do you guys carry a calculator around with you to work out what's 15% of the price or something?

mental math!

_Crazy_Mary_

Hinny wrote:

With this tipping business, do you guys carry a calculator around with you to work out what's 15% of the price or something?

If the bill is two digits, you double the 1st number. If it's 3 digits, you double the 1st two. 20% is much easier to figure out than 15%.

Hinny

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

20% is much easier to figure out than 15%.

Yeah, obviously, but I'm struggling hard enough with the concept of needing to give a tip, no way in hell am I gonna offer a 20% one right away. A 20% tip for a meal... there better be a BJ involved in there somewhere.

Hinny

soulsinging wrote:

we've learned this thing called math in these things we have called schools. maybe they haven't made it to the outback yet?

We've learned to have this thing called a decent minimum wage for hospitality sector workers in these things we have called a government. Maybe they haven't made it to Bible-thumping land yet?

soulsinging

Hinny wrote:

Yeah, obviously, but I'm struggling hard enough with the concept of needing to give a tip, no way in hell am I gonna offer a 20% one right away. A 20% tip for a meal... there better be a BJ involved in there somewhere.

then stay home and make your own meal. oh wait, you want the convenience of someone cooking and serving it to you? by god, you shouldn't have to PAY for the services you receive!

_Crazy_Mary_

Hinny wrote:

Yeah, obviously, but I'm struggling hard enough with the concept of needing to give a tip, no way in hell am I gonna offer a 20% one right away. A 20% tip for a meal... there better be a BJ involved in there somewhere.

haha. I'm pissed if I get a 15% tip. 20% is ok, but honestly I want 25% to 30%.

soulsinging

Hinny wrote:

We've learned to have this thing called a decent minimum wage for hospitality sector workers in these things we have called a government. Maybe they haven't made it to Bible-thumping land yet?

if it was bible-thumping, id be opposing it on principle. it's a capitalism thing though, and like it or not, it's the way it is. you don't like it, don't come here. but don't fuck over the waiter who has no power to change it just becos your country does it different. you're hurting only the most vulnerable and powerless person in this chain, becos the people who created the system don't give a fuck what you do to the waiter becos they already got their cut. when we come, we'll respect your customs. when you come, you can respect ours. if not, you may find your meal has a few "extra" ingredients from time to time. and you'd deserve it.

dunkman

soulsinging wrote:

then stay home and make your own meal. oh wait, you want the convenience of someone cooking and serving it to you? by god, you shouldn't have to PAY for the services you receive!

when you're a lawyer will you get tipped? does anyone tip a bus driver? a librarian? how aboutr dental technicians? do they get tipped?

thought not..

dunkman

soulsinging wrote:

if it was bible-thumping, id be opposing it on principle. it's a capitalism thing though, and like it or not, it's the way it is. you don't like it, don't come here. but don't fuck over the waiter who has no power to change it just becos your country does it different. you're hurting only the most vulnerable and powerless person in this chain, becos the people who created the system don't give a fuck what you do to the waiter becos they already got their cut. when we come, we'll respect your customs. when you come, you can respect ours. if not, you may find your meal has a few "extra" ingredients from time to time. and you'd deserve it.

tough shit.. so i pay extra cos some fat guy who owns a restaurant doesnt pay his staff properly? not my problem.. free lesson for today.. stick in at school kids...


and that custom stuff doesnt hold water.. you know gas over here is about 3 times the price you pay? so when you come here will you just fill up the tank and not have a slight moan to people when you got back home?

complaining about something doesnt mean its an insult to your customs... it used to be a custom that Native Americans could graze their cattle where they wanted and hunt Buffalo.. but hey.. you fucked their customs so i'll fuck yours

soulsinging

dunkman wrote:

when you're a lawyer will you get tipped? does anyone tip a bus driver? a librarian? how aboutr dental technicians? do they get tipped?

thought not..

your meal price is the price of services of preparing the meal by the cooks and maintaining the restaurant facilities by management. your tip is the price of paying the waiter who handled everything else. just becos we don't roll it into one lump sum so as not to tax your feeble mind and instead charge them separately doesn't mean you all aren't paying for the same thing over there. the only difference is there you have no say over how much that service is worth, here you get to decide every time you eat out.

and good lawyers get tipped all the time with things like invitations to boxes at athletic events and golf outings and the occasional favorable congressional vote in gratitude for previous services rendered.

redrock

soulsinging wrote:

oh wait, you want the convenience of someone cooking and serving it to you? by god, you shouldn't have to PAY for the services you receive!

The bill pays for the food, the rent, the equipment, overheads, etc. The salary provided by the employer (ultimately paid for by the money we fork out on the bill) pays for the people to cook the food, serve it, clean up after, etc., ie the services received. The cost of a meal is calculated to include ALL outgoings + profit.