dunk, I agree with what you're saying in terms of how it *should* be. However, while traveling in foreign countries, you really should adhere to what is customary while you're there. it's just common courtesy. Really, in the US, it is acceptable to tip LESS for poor service not not at all, unless it is REALLY BAD for some reason, like ok, if I witnessed the waiter spitting in my soup or something...For average service, you tip average, which is 20% for dinner. It is NOT the best system, but really I would not travel to scotland and not adhere to local customs. it just seems very wrong. that "average" waiter is depending on that tip, because it is how the system works.
just because its customary doesnt mean that the system is flawed and stinks to high heaven... ergo i will complain about it.
its customary in Liberia to hack off the clitoris of a new born girl.. doesnt mean i shouldnt complain about it... (cue a Trixie comment of your ANALogy is crap)
ok... i've remembered one.. its a custom in Scotland that you cant buy alcohol on a sunday before 12.30pm... that fucking sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!
see... i could try and defend that one but i realise its a shit historical thing to do with churches and that god bloke.. so i call it out on its shitness.. just as tipping is a shit custom.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
just because its customary doesnt mean that the system is flawed and stinks to high heaven... ergo i will complain about it.
its customary in Liberia to hack off the clitoris of a new born girl.. doesnt mean i shouldnt complain about it... (cue a Trixie comment of your ANALogy is crap)
ok... i've remembered one.. its a custom in Scotland that you cant buy alcohol on a sunday before 12.30pm... that fucking sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!
see... i could try and defend that one but i realise its a shit historical thing to do with churches and that god bloke.. so i call it out on its shitness.. just as tipping is a shit custom.
...and people talk about rude AMERICAN tourists...
We're talking about tourism here, dunk, not female circumcision. When I go to a different country, I read the rules for tipping and I do what it says. period. as trixie says, it's up to you not to tip, but you WILL look like an ass.
And Dunk, the whole busdrive ANALogy was pretty lame.
When you come here either tip or don't tip.
It is obviously your own personal choice.
But don't be surprised when you make an ass out of yourself.
freudian slip my dear
i wont make an ass out of myself... if i get lousy service and i dont tip then how does that make me an ass? if the owner comes out i'll give him a traditional scottish Glasgow Kiss, which as you know is a custom over here if someone is shouting in my face about not tipping
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
We're talking about tourism here, dunk, not female circumcision. When I go to a different country, I read the rules for tipping and I do what it says. period. as trixie says, it's up to you not to tip, but you WILL look like an ass.
i wont... i'll tip if i need to, i wont tip if i dont.. i'm on my vacation there so if the restaurant is shite then i just wont go back (hereby rendering the "oh i'll give you Jerk Chicken my non-tipping enemy" argument)
as i said.. it may be customary but that doesnt mean its not a flawed system... and i like to think i can spot the flaws about things in my country... i'd like it if americans did as well, but they're probably to busy making flags to notice
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i wont make an ass out of myself... if i get lousy service and i dont tip then how does that make me an ass? if the owner comes out i'll give him a traditional scottish Glasgow Kiss, which as you know is a custom over here if someone is shouting in my face about not tipping
But you don't tip over there so why would anyone be shouting in your face about not tipping?
It's just rude, Dunk.
That is all we are saying.
Rude.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
But you don't tip over there so why would anyone be shouting in your face about not tipping?
It's just rude, Dunk.
That is all we are saying.
Rude.
exactly, it's OFFENSIVE. it's like walking into a house in some asian countries and not taking off your shoes, or going to some muslim countries as a woman and wearing pants. it's just what's done. you might not agree with it, but you do it to be a gracious guest. that waiter you don't tip will NOT MAKE ANY MONEY. Don't you understand that? There ARE waiters that deserve that. As I said, if they spit in your soup, you have my permission not to tip. But for average restaurant service, you have to tip, it is our system and if it is flawed (and I said I agree on that) that's just too bad, it's how it works.
thats an actual serious answer on a website and yet its geuinely comedic in content
i wont... i'll tip if i need to, i wont tip if i dont.. i'm on my vacation there so if the restaurant is shite then i just wont go back (hereby rendering the "oh i'll give you Jerk Chicken my non-tipping enemy" argument)
as i said.. it may be customary but that doesnt mean its not a flawed system... and i like to think i can spot the flaws about things in my country... i'd like it if americans did as well, but they're probably to busy making flags to notice
According to your little link, we aren't allowed to look at a map...lol
I still look at the subway map from time to time if I am not sure which train stops where...local or express.
But thanks for enlightening us.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
But you don't tip over there so why would anyone be shouting in your face about not tipping?
It's just rude, Dunk.
That is all we are saying.
Rude.
because the location setting was your home country... thats why i said i wouldnt make an ass of myself.. how could i make an ass of myself if i was here?
its rude for americans to come over here and try and tip barmen in my country... but the vast majority try and do it... the barmen hate it, of course being scottish they take the money, but it doesnt mean they'll get served quicker or better... far from it... they consider it to be a sign of trying to be 'flash with the cash'... no-one likes a show-off with money... "here poor barman pauper have a $5 for that $2 beer!!!"... showing off
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
exactly, it's OFFENSIVE. it's like walking into a house in some asian countries and not taking off your shoes, or going to some muslim countries as a woman and wearing pants. it's just what's done. you might not agree with it, but you do it to be a gracious guest. that waiter you don't tip will NOT MAKE ANY MONEY. Don't you understand that? There ARE waiters that deserve that. As I said, if they spit in your soup, you have my permission not to tip. But for average restaurant service, you have to tip, it is our system and if it is flawed (and I said I agree on that) that's just too bad, it's how it works.
I wouldn't go as far as these examples.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
exactly, it's OFFENSIVE. it's like walking into a house in some asian countries and not taking off your shoes, or going to some muslim countries as a woman and wearing pants. it's just what's done. you might not agree with it, but you do it to be a gracious guest. that waiter you don't tip will NOT MAKE ANY MONEY. Don't you understand that? There ARE waiters that deserve that. As I said, if they spit in your soup, you have my permission not to tip. But for average restaurant service, you have to tip, it is our system and if it is flawed (and I said I agree on that) that's just too bad, it's how it works.
and i've repeatedly said when i;m over there in the states i will tip accordingly.. but if i get poor service then i wont.. simple as that... i still think the system sucks and thats why i'm moaning about it...
and think about those other customs.. they are genuine customs related to genuine reasons.. Japanese ones of taking off shoes is hygenic, their tatami mats get dirty,etc etc .. the muslim one is religion based and should be respected.... but tipping 20% to someone is the american custom???? i'd be ashamed if my countries main custom was to do with the splashing of cash
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
because the location setting was your home country... thats why i said i wouldnt make an ass of myself.. how could i make an ass of myself if i was here?
its rude for americans to come over here and try and tip barmen in my country... but the vast majority try and do it... the barmen hate it, of course being scottish they take the money, but it doesnt mean they'll get served quicker or better... far from it... they consider it to be a sign of trying to be 'flash with the cash'... no-one likes a show-off with money... "here poor barman pauper have a $5 for that $2 beer!!!"... showing off
so...if it is rude for americans to tip in scotland, then it is rude for scots NOT to tip in america. you just made our point. Those americans didn't pay attention to the rule not to tip, and you're not paying attention to the rule TO tip...if you don't tip, you will look exactly the same as the americans who do tip in scotland, like an ass.
According to your little link, we aren't allowed to look at a map...lol
I still look at the subway map from time to time if I am not sure which train stops where...local or express.
But thanks for enlightening us.
i didnt enlighten you.. i merely provided the words of another fellow american... i just thought it was funny.
if i could find the US tourist scene in Trainspotting for you then i'd post it but i cant
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
because the location setting was your home country... thats why i said i wouldnt make an ass of myself.. how could i make an ass of myself if i was here?
its rude for americans to come over here and try and tip barmen in my country... but the vast majority try and do it... the barmen hate it, of course being scottish they take the money, but it doesnt mean they'll get served quicker or better... far from it... they consider it to be a sign of trying to be 'flash with the cash'... no-one likes a show-off with money... "here poor barman pauper have a $5 for that $2 beer!!!"... showing off
Well, probably because the American took one look at the barman and gave him 3 extra bucks to go out and buy some self tanner. Get a little color on that skin. :eek:
No, GTD, I still am not agreeing. I would equate your examples with things like not removing your hat when the Star Spangled Banner is playing at a ballgame or cutting off a funeral procession or talking in church.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
so...if it is rude for americans to tip in scotland, then it is rude for scots NOT to tip in america. you just made our point. Those americans didn't pay attention to the rule not to tip, and you're not paying attention to the rule TO tip...if you don't tip, you will look exactly the same as the americans who do tip in scotland, like an ass.
but NO american sticks to that custom of ours... they ALL try and tip the barman... not one of them adheres to the custom... therefore its your own countrymen who are insulting our barstaff on a regular basis.. i'm pretty sure its a tiny tiny minority of British travellers who will refuse to tip when in the States.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i didnt enlighten you.. i merely provided the words of another fellow american... i just thought it was funny.
if i could find the US tourist scene in Trainspotting for you then i'd post it but i cant
Was it the scene where all the Scots are wearing Chuck's and listening to American rock music and wearing Levi's?? Oh, that one wouldn't be in there because no one wants to admit they desire most things American. Except the things you choose to make fun of like obesity, guns and fast food.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Well, probably because the American took one look at the barman and gave him 3 extra bucks to go out and buy some self tanner. Get a little color on that skin. :eek:
No, GTD, I still am not agreeing. I would equate your examples with things like not removing your hat when the Star Spangled Banner is playing at a ballgame or cutting off a funeral procession or talking in church.
it's all customs though, be they economic (tips), religious (say, covering your head as a woman), whatever. the point is that with any custom, you can prepare before you travel, and if you chose not to adhere to it, then you wind up looking like the ass, and no one cares if you are trying to make point. Hell once in ireland I reached for a guinness before the head was ready and got chewed out by the bar tender for not knowing the custom.
but NO american sticks to that custom of ours... they ALL try and tip the barman...
you've personally witnessed EVERY american who travels to scotland? shit, you've got a lot of free time on your hands.You HEAR about the ones that don't because they're the ones who are going to get noticed. No one's going to repeat a story or take notice when someone does something that is the NORM. Dude, I haven't been to scotland, but I've been to other countries where you don't tip, and I haven't tipped. Neither has anyone I've been with. And last I looked at my passport, it was american.
I don't want to fight with anyone about this, but when I was a waitress in college we made 2.83 an hour and that was standard in PA. They paid you that and you made up the rest in tips. I can tell you HONESTLY that I got a zeroed out pay check every single week because the entire thing went to taxes. When someone would leave no tip, there were times I actually cried because then I wasnt getting paid. Honestly if you don't tip (at most places in America) you're not hurting anyone but the server who (hopefully) busted their ass to do a good job so you would tip. I worked with people that would refuse to take a table if the people were foreign. I think that's wrong and descrimintory. However, it was so hard to get a shifty tip or no tip sometimes because then I couldnt pay my bills I'd buy food or what not. Its a crappy system but for the time being not tipping directly hits the waitstaff :(
but NO american sticks to that custom of ours... they ALL try and tip the barman... not one of them adheres to the custom... therefore its your own countrymen who are insulting our barstaff on a regular basis.. i'm pretty sure its a tiny tiny minority of British travellers who will refuse to tip when in the States.
Dunk, just a reminder to you. When you are at Disneyworld later this year it is customary to tip Donald Duck for what he will do with you in the corner regardless of how horrible his flipper grip is. On the other hand, you do not have to tip Goofy for watching and videotaping the procedings. Hope that helps.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
Was it the scene where all the Scots are wearing Chuck's and listening to American rock music and wearing Levi's?? Oh, that one wouldn't be in there because no one wants to admit they desire most things American. Except the things you choose to make fun of like obesity, guns and fast food.
i certainly dont desire most things american.. cant speak for the makers of the movie trainspotting.
obesity and fast-food go fat hand in fat hand... and aforementioned fat hands need guns to make them tough.. its an easy target.. no not the 450lb blubber boy waddling to the next Taco Bell.. i mean the subject matter.. its too easy.. i'm a bully ergo i pick on the weak. :rolleyes:
so banks do this do they?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
you've personally witnessed EVERY american who travels to scotland? shit, you've got a lot of free time on your hands.You HEAR about the ones that don't because they're the ones who are going to get noticed. No one's going to repeat a story or take notice when someone does something that is the NORM. Dude, I haven't been to scotland, but I've been to other countries where you don't tip, and I haven't tipped. Neither has anyone I've been with. And last I looked at my passport, it was american.
this is true.. i've only heard of the bad moments
my wife will tell you that her Uncle from Virginia tries to tip everyone when he's over here.. she finds it embarrassing.. so i didnt mean everyone does it.. sorry, that was wrong of me to say so
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Hell once in ireland I reached for a guinness before the head was ready and got chewed out by the bar tender for not knowing the custom.
quite rightly so
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
my wife will tell you that her Uncle from Virginia tries to tip everyone when he's over here.. she finds it embarrassing.. so i didnt mean everyone does it.. sorry, that was wrong of me to say so
haha well, you know what, if you don't tip for average service when you're here, you're wife's uncle is going to be embarrassed and tell everyone about it!
Dunk, just a reminder to you. When you are at Disneyworld later this year it is customary to tip Donald Duck for what he will do with you in the corner regardless of how horrible his flipper grip is. On the other hand, you do not have to tip Goofy for watching and videotaping the procedings. Hope that helps.
honestly, you just made me look forward to it even more I'm fully expecting SNow White to do bad stuff to me
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
haha well, you know what, if you don't tip for average service when you're here, you're wife's uncle is going to be embarrassed and tell everyone about it!
i can live with that
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
honestly, you just made me look forward to it even more I'm fully expecting SNow White to do bad stuff to me
truth be told, little man takes a bath with 6 little 4-inch rubber disney princesses. they are my daughters' bath toys, but he doesn't know the difference. yet. his favorites are snow white and belle. he holds them up to his belly, squeezes, and they make a fart sounds. cracks him up all the time. o lord.
To me, tipping in the US (or at least in certain states) doesn't seem to be as much a custom as it is economic necessity! I guess we see tipping differently in Europe.
A waiter has a decent salary (still crap, but at least minimum wage). When a customer tips, he/she tips for added value, not for the job the waiter/waitress is paid to do bearing in mind good customer service (ie take your order, bring your food, clear your table, see that you have what you need....). Their salary takes care of that part. Tips are in essence a reward.
An analogy.. my daughter gets pocket money. Something very basic every week for which she needs to do certain chores, etc.. (compare that to basic wage) She has the potential to get more money to a max of £x (compare that to the 20% tips) but this is on the assumption she ADDS to what is expected - the max pocket money is based on a number of things that can be done, for ex cooking a meal, etc. The more added value she gives the family during the week, the more she earns towards the maximum (ie towards the 20% tip). The less she does, the less she gets. No added value, no extra pocket money.
Comments
just because its customary doesnt mean that the system is flawed and stinks to high heaven... ergo i will complain about it.
its customary in Liberia to hack off the clitoris of a new born girl.. doesnt mean i shouldnt complain about it... (cue a Trixie comment of your ANALogy is crap)
ok... i've remembered one.. its a custom in Scotland that you cant buy alcohol on a sunday before 12.30pm... that fucking sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!
see... i could try and defend that one but i realise its a shit historical thing to do with churches and that god bloke.. so i call it out on its shitness.. just as tipping is a shit custom.
...and people talk about rude AMERICAN tourists...
We're talking about tourism here, dunk, not female circumcision. When I go to a different country, I read the rules for tipping and I do what it says. period. as trixie says, it's up to you not to tip, but you WILL look like an ass.
freudian slip my dear
i wont make an ass out of myself... if i get lousy service and i dont tip then how does that make me an ass? if the owner comes out i'll give him a traditional scottish Glasgow Kiss, which as you know is a custom over here if someone is shouting in my face about not tipping
that they do.. world renowned for it
http://www.ehow.com/how_2152123_not-be-typical-american-tourist.html
thats an actual serious answer on a website and yet its geuinely comedic in content
i wont... i'll tip if i need to, i wont tip if i dont.. i'm on my vacation there so if the restaurant is shite then i just wont go back (hereby rendering the "oh i'll give you Jerk Chicken my non-tipping enemy" argument)
as i said.. it may be customary but that doesnt mean its not a flawed system... and i like to think i can spot the flaws about things in my country... i'd like it if americans did as well, but they're probably to busy making flags to notice
It's just rude, Dunk.
That is all we are saying.
Rude.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
exactly, it's OFFENSIVE. it's like walking into a house in some asian countries and not taking off your shoes, or going to some muslim countries as a woman and wearing pants. it's just what's done. you might not agree with it, but you do it to be a gracious guest. that waiter you don't tip will NOT MAKE ANY MONEY. Don't you understand that? There ARE waiters that deserve that. As I said, if they spit in your soup, you have my permission not to tip. But for average restaurant service, you have to tip, it is our system and if it is flawed (and I said I agree on that) that's just too bad, it's how it works.
I still look at the subway map from time to time if I am not sure which train stops where...local or express.
But thanks for enlightening us.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
because the location setting was your home country... thats why i said i wouldnt make an ass of myself.. how could i make an ass of myself if i was here?
its rude for americans to come over here and try and tip barmen in my country... but the vast majority try and do it... the barmen hate it, of course being scottish they take the money, but it doesnt mean they'll get served quicker or better... far from it... they consider it to be a sign of trying to be 'flash with the cash'... no-one likes a show-off with money... "here poor barman pauper have a $5 for that $2 beer!!!"... showing off
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
well maybe not, but you get my point, about traveling to places where you are a GUEST.
and i've repeatedly said when i;m over there in the states i will tip accordingly.. but if i get poor service then i wont.. simple as that... i still think the system sucks and thats why i'm moaning about it...
and think about those other customs.. they are genuine customs related to genuine reasons.. Japanese ones of taking off shoes is hygenic, their tatami mats get dirty,etc etc .. the muslim one is religion based and should be respected.... but tipping 20% to someone is the american custom???? i'd be ashamed if my countries main custom was to do with the splashing of cash
so...if it is rude for americans to tip in scotland, then it is rude for scots NOT to tip in america. you just made our point. Those americans didn't pay attention to the rule not to tip, and you're not paying attention to the rule TO tip...if you don't tip, you will look exactly the same as the americans who do tip in scotland, like an ass.
i didnt enlighten you.. i merely provided the words of another fellow american... i just thought it was funny.
if i could find the US tourist scene in Trainspotting for you then i'd post it but i cant
No, GTD, I still am not agreeing. I would equate your examples with things like not removing your hat when the Star Spangled Banner is playing at a ballgame or cutting off a funeral procession or talking in church.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5202148&postcount=72
first few words yet again.... i will tip, i've always said i will unless something causes me to think otherwise.
but NO american sticks to that custom of ours... they ALL try and tip the barman... not one of them adheres to the custom... therefore its your own countrymen who are insulting our barstaff on a regular basis.. i'm pretty sure its a tiny tiny minority of British travellers who will refuse to tip when in the States.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
it's all customs though, be they economic (tips), religious (say, covering your head as a woman), whatever. the point is that with any custom, you can prepare before you travel, and if you chose not to adhere to it, then you wind up looking like the ass, and no one cares if you are trying to make point. Hell once in ireland I reached for a guinness before the head was ready and got chewed out by the bar tender for not knowing the custom.
you've personally witnessed EVERY american who travels to scotland? shit, you've got a lot of free time on your hands.You HEAR about the ones that don't because they're the ones who are going to get noticed. No one's going to repeat a story or take notice when someone does something that is the NORM. Dude, I haven't been to scotland, but I've been to other countries where you don't tip, and I haven't tipped. Neither has anyone I've been with. And last I looked at my passport, it was american.
Dunk, just a reminder to you. When you are at Disneyworld later this year it is customary to tip Donald Duck for what he will do with you in the corner regardless of how horrible his flipper grip is. On the other hand, you do not have to tip Goofy for watching and videotaping the procedings. Hope that helps.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
i certainly dont desire most things american.. cant speak for the makers of the movie trainspotting.
obesity and fast-food go fat hand in fat hand... and aforementioned fat hands need guns to make them tough.. its an easy target.. no not the 450lb blubber boy waddling to the next Taco Bell.. i mean the subject matter.. its too easy.. i'm a bully ergo i pick on the weak. :rolleyes:
so banks do this do they?
this is true.. i've only heard of the bad moments
my wife will tell you that her Uncle from Virginia tries to tip everyone when he's over here.. she finds it embarrassing.. so i didnt mean everyone does it.. sorry, that was wrong of me to say so
quite rightly so
haha well, you know what, if you don't tip for average service when you're here, you're wife's uncle is going to be embarrassed and tell everyone about it!
well I knew I had to wait for it but I didn't know I couldn't touch the glass and move it towards me!
honestly, you just made me look forward to it even more
i can live with that
truth be told, little man takes a bath with 6 little 4-inch rubber disney princesses. they are my daughters' bath toys, but he doesn't know the difference. yet. his favorites are snow white and belle. he holds them up to his belly, squeezes, and they make a fart sounds. cracks him up all the time. o lord.
A waiter has a decent salary (still crap, but at least minimum wage). When a customer tips, he/she tips for added value, not for the job the waiter/waitress is paid to do bearing in mind good customer service (ie take your order, bring your food, clear your table, see that you have what you need....). Their salary takes care of that part. Tips are in essence a reward.
An analogy.. my daughter gets pocket money. Something very basic every week for which she needs to do certain chores, etc.. (compare that to basic wage) She has the potential to get more money to a max of £x (compare that to the 20% tips) but this is on the assumption she ADDS to what is expected - the max pocket money is based on a number of things that can be done, for ex cooking a meal, etc. The more added value she gives the family during the week, the more she earns towards the maximum (ie towards the 20% tip). The less she does, the less she gets. No added value, no extra pocket money.