tough shit.. so i pay extra cos some fat guy who owns a restaurant doesnt pay his staff properly? not my problem.. free lesson for today.. stick in at school kids...
you don't pay extra. you pay the same fees only in 2 separate bills. i know you scotsman hate having to use the mass between your ears, but sometimes life demands it, ya know? over there, you roll them into one to accommodate the setbacks of generations of inbreeding, here we keep them separate, figuring people are grown up enough to handle the responsibility.
The bill pays for the food, the rent, the equipment, overheads, etc. The salary provided by the employer (ultimately paid for by the money we fork out on the bill) pays for the people to cook the food, serve it, clean up after, etc., ie the services received. The cost of a meal is calculated to include ALL outgoings + profit.
not the salary of the servers though. that salary is left to the discretion of the consumer, who is better able to reward and punish good and bad service, leaving the owner free to concentrate on providing good food.
tough shit.. so i pay extra cos some fat guy who owns a restaurant doesnt pay his staff properly? not my problem.. free lesson for today.. stick in at school kids...
and that custom stuff doesnt hold water.. you know gas over here is about 3 times the price you pay? so when you come here will you just fill up the tank and not have a slight moan to people when you got back home?
complaining about something doesnt mean its an insult to your customs... it used to be a custom that Native Americans could graze their cattle where they wanted and hunt Buffalo.. but hey.. you fucked their customs so i'll fuck yours
but i PAY it. i may question the wisdom of it, but i don't fuck over the guy who owns the station or pumps the gas becos i think gas policies of your country (policies that guy has NO control over) are unreasonable.
is this really how it works.. how does your bank know at 11.21pm you are swiping at a restaurant and not just buying something online.. i just dont believe this.. i then found this
Another example can be seen with a restaurant transaction. If an individual spends $40 at a meal, the server does not know how large a tip they will leave, if they choose to leave one on the card. The restaurant's credit card terminal is typically set to authorize a larger amount, such as 20% above the cost of the meal, but the transaction will settle for the actual total including the actual tip written on the receipt. Some restaurants will authorize just the amount of the bill but the transaction will settle higher with the tip included. Acquirers sometimes forbid the practice of preauthorizing an amount including a tip, but will guarantee settlement of the amount authorized plus 15 or 20%
is the guy i quoted meaning the restaurants credit card terminal and not 'the bank'? cos that i can understand (almost)..
I do not think that happens. In fact, my bank usually shows debit transactions as "pending" transactions and the money usually isn't withdrawn until a day or so later. I can access the pending transactions and have never seen them listed as more than my check...or at least more than my check plus the actual tip.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
you don't pay extra. you pay the same fees only in 2 separate bills. i know you scotsman hate having to use the mass between your ears, but sometimes life demands it, ya know? over there, you roll them into one to accommodate the setbacks of generations of inbreeding, here we keep them separate, figuring people are grown up enough to handle the responsibility.
ok i dont pay extra as such... in real terms.. but if the service is shit the bill is $20... if the service is great its $25... so i paid extra to get better service.. here's a revolutionary new idea... fire staff who are shit at their job and pay them a minimum wage, the cost of the meal stays the same (as you've just pointed out) the staff get a regular wage and the owner gets the same in takings each week... the bill is $54 then the customer is happy because he knows the actual bill... not "oh i better pay 17.9% extra because she was a 7 out of 10.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
not the salary of the servers though. that salary is left to the discretion of the consumer, who is better able to reward and punish good and bad service, leaving the owner free to concentrate on providing good food.
That made me laugh. The owner is the one with the ultimate responsibility to deal with the service provided by paying decent WAGES!!!!! A waiter/waitress is not paid on tips alone. Unless the owner is the chef, his responsibility is running the restaurant which includes ensuring the food is up to standard, the premises are up to standard, hygiene is what it should be, hiring, firing, customers are satisfied, etc. The owner manages.
That made me laugh. The owner is the one with the ultimate responsibility to deal with the service provided by paying decent WAGES!!!!! A waiter/waitress is not paid on tips alone. Unless the owner is the chef, his responsibility is running the restaurant which includes ensuring the food is up to standard, the premises are up to standard, hygiene is what it should be, hiring, firing, customers are satisfied, etc. The owner manages.
owners are only required by law to pay enough wages to cover taxes. this is why i say your paltry attempts to make a statement of protest by not tipping doesn't do shit. you fuck over a worker who has not say in the matter and don't hurt the person responsible for the system one bit. they don't even know about your bullshit protest.
owners are only required by law to pay enough wages to cover taxes. this is why i say your paltry attempts to make a statement of protest by not tipping doesn't do shit. you fuck over a worker who has not say in the matter and don't hurt the person responsible for the system one bit. they don't even know about your bullshit protest.
Did I say anything about not tipping? I was just discussing the services one pays for via the bill, outlining very briefly how the cost of a meal was calculated and what the responsibilities of a restaurant owner are. I was a waitress for a bit, I was paid minimum wage.. I was also a restaurant manager for a while. Oh - in the US, not in Europe.
ok i dont pay extra as such... in real terms.. but if the service is shit the bill is $20... if the service is great its $25... so i paid extra to get better service.. here's a revolutionary new idea... fire staff who are shit at their job and pay them a minimum wage, the cost of the meal stays the same (as you've just pointed out) the staff get a regular wage and the owner gets the same in takings each week... the bill is $54 then the customer is happy because he knows the actual bill... not "oh i better pay 17.9% extra because she was a 7 out of 10.
so you think it's unwise. fair enough. why does that justify you in fucking over the lowest person on the totem pole becos you think your country has the superior way of doing things? isnt that the sort of attitude you bitch about americans having all the time?
Did I say anything about not tipping? I was just discussing the services one pays for via the bill, outlining very briefly how the cost of a meal was calculated and what the responsibilities of a restaurant owner are. I was a waitress for a bit, I was paid minimum wage.. I was also a restaurant manager for a while. Oh - in the US, not in Europe.
where were you a waitress that you were paid minimum wage? we were paid $2 an hour, significantly below minimum wage, and that was paid only to cover our government taxes.
where were you a waitress that you were paid minimum wage? we were paid $2 an hour, significantly below minimum wage, and that was paid only to cover our government taxes.
A long time ago, in Sacramento. Can't remember the name of the place, but it was one of those franchise type restaurants. Hell.. I even remember working for a month or so at Foxy Loxy (a bagel place) for minimum wage back then.
so you think it's unwise. fair enough. why does that justify you in fucking over the lowest person on the totem pole becos you think your country has the superior way of doing things? isnt that the sort of attitude you bitch about americans having all the time?
me.. bitch? well i never
i'm saying i wont tip if the service is shit or even average.. people should do their jobs professionally regardless of their career.. i.e. i'd be annoyed if the bus driver took me a 45 minute detour and then dropped me off at totally different spot.. he's done a crap job.
if a waiter doesnt do a good job then i wont tip.. thats all i'm saying
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
A long time ago, in Sacramento. Can't remember the name of the place, but it was one of those franchise type restaurants. Hell.. I even remember working for a month or so at Foxy Loxy (a bagel place) for minimum wage back then.
franchise? also, a bagel place? those ain't restaurants chief. you don't get full service there. you buy your bagel and they give it to you over the counter. fast food is not a restaurant.
franchise? also, a bagel place? those ain't restaurants chief. you don't get full service there. you buy your bagel and they give it to you over the counter. fast food is not a restaurant.
Not at the bagel place. I was just mentioning it because of minimum wage. But the restaurant was a FULL service restaurant. When I say franchise, I mean by that, that it wasn't an 'exclusive' one off fancy restaurant but one of those that will have a restaurant in various cities. Not a mcdonald's, not a Hard Rock Cafe or a TGIF type restaurant. A 'proper' one that paid a decent wage.
Still SS, exclusive restaurant or not, I got paid minimum wage (and not $2/hour) and was able to pay my rent, buy my food and drink. I did not have to rely on tips.
i'm saying i wont tip if the service is shit or even average.. people should do their jobs professionally regardless of their career.. i.e. i'd be annoyed if the bus driver took me a 45 minute detour and then dropped me off at totally different spot.. he's done a crap job.
if a waiter doesnt do a good job then i wont tip.. thats all i'm saying
dunk, I agree with what you're saying in terms of how it *should* be. However, while traveling in foreign countries, you really should adhere to what is customary while you're there. it's just common courtesy. Really, in the US, it is acceptable to tip LESS for poor service not not at all, unless it is REALLY BAD for some reason, like ok, if I witnessed the waiter spitting in my soup or something...For average service, you tip average, which is 20% for dinner. It is NOT the best system, but really I would not travel to scotland and not adhere to local customs. it just seems very wrong. that "average" waiter is depending on that tip, because it is how the system works.
haha. I'm pissed if I get a 15% tip. 20% is ok, but honestly I want 25% to 30%.
WOW.
are you truly serious? do you work in one of those 4-5 star restaurants? and even there....sheesh. i live in NY, work in manhattan....eat in restaurants in both, and 20% is considered a GOOD/fair/generous tip. it's pretty much my standard, i may go over a wee bit for exceptional service, if it's a holiday....or just to round off the $ amount at times....but i highly doubt i EVER tip above say 22% at most. 20% is it. for years 15% was the "standard"...don't remember when it upped to 20, but it absolutely customary for GOOD/great service. i can understand 'wanting' it...i just can't believe you actually get it!
hell, i'd like a 10K raise this year, doesn't mean i'll get it....no matter how excellent an employee/asset i may be. granted, i am a well paid salaried employee who also gets overtime pay, full benefits, paid vacations, etc...but hell yea, i think it's a bit much to put it mildly to expect the customer to tip THAT high, even if you are the most fantastic waitperson ever. it is rare for me/us to undertip...but sure, if the service is THAT bad, you betcha we do....and sure, it's usually 15% nowadays, or maybe even 10% if the service is horrible. i think maybe 1-2x we've ever left NO tip, but obviously...must've be a terrible experience. shit, i KNOW waitstaff depend on tips, but i think 20% is VERY generous, so to just think it's *ok*...honestly i find annoying. while it's customary, it isn't 'mandatory' so i think one should appreciate that?
and to the topic: i NEVEr use a debit card, period. i HAVE one, but it is simply used to get cash out of the ATM. otherwise it just makes more sense for us to use true creidt cards, pay the bill in full each month, and it's like an interest-free loan on everything you purchase for a month. keep our own $$$ in the bank that much longer. win-win...and no *holds* on our money.
Not at the bagel place. I was just mentioning it because of minimum wage. But the restaurant was a FULL service restaurant. When I say franchise, I mean by that, that it wasn't an 'exclusive' one off fancy restaurant but one of those that will have a restaurant in various cities. Not a mcdonald's, not a Hard Rock Cafe or a TGIF type restaurant. A 'proper' one that paid a decent wage.
Still SS, exclusive restaurant or not, I got paid minimum wage (and not $2/hour) and was able to pay my rent, buy my food and drink. I did not have to rely on tips.
proper? what does that mean? it was proper becos it was the one restaurant out of tens of thousands that paid federal general minimum wages? also, did you still get tipped? were your wages paid in cash? were you a server or a cook or bus boy? something about your story here stinks.
to GTD, where are you living that 20% is average? generally, i tip 20% unless service is terrible, but mainly becos i was a waiter and know most people are cheapskate scrooges like dunk that like to take out their unhappiness on people who have no power to respond. nonetheless, i thought average was supposed to be 15%?
to GTD, where are you living that 20% is average? generally, i tip 20% unless service is terrible, but mainly becos i was a waiter and know most people are cheapskate scrooges like dunk that like to take out their unhappiness on people who have no power to respond. nonetheless, i thought average was supposed to be 15%?
I've really heard 20% was average for several years now! I USED to do 15%, but it went up...everyone I go out to eat with- family, coworkers, friends who don't make much money, we always tip 20%.
proper? what does that mean? it was proper becos it was the one restaurant out of tens of thousands that paid federal general minimum wages? also, did you still get tipped? were your wages paid in cash? were you a server or a cook or bus boy? something about your story here stinks.
to GTD, where are you living that 20% is average? generally, i tip 20% unless service is terrible, but mainly becos i was a waiter and know most people are cheapskate scrooges like dunk that like to take out their unhappiness on people who have no power to respond. nonetheless, i thought average was supposed to be 15%?
Proper means a restaurant, sit down, with tables, menus on the table and waiters/waitresses, bus boys/girls, etc. As I explained, not a 'fast food' restaurant as you were implying. I was a waitress and I also got tips - though we did share those with the busboy/girl which was only fair as they sorted your tables out - and I was expected to work long shifts. This restaurant wasn't exceptional when it came to paying minimum wage either. My wages were paid via the bank. All legit. Admittedly, I'm talking a number of years back. I guess the expectations of the american worker has gotten a lot lower nowadays.
I've really heard 20% was average for several years now! I USED to do 15%, but it went up...everyone I go out to eat with- family, coworkers, friends who don't make much money, we always tip 20%.
I've always heard it was 15% and didn't know it went up.
I've really heard 20% was average for several years now! I USED to do 15%, but it went up...everyone I go out to eat with- family, coworkers, friends who don't make much money, we always tip 20%.
ive been doing that anyway, i wish they'd told that to the rednecks who used to come into the place i worked and stretch to find 10%.
Proper means a restaurant, sit down, with tables, menus on the table and waiters/waitresses, bus boys/girls, etc. As I explained, not a 'fast food' restaurant as you were implying. I was a waitress and I also got tips - though we did share those with the busboy/girl which was only fair as they sorted your tables out - and I was expected to work long shifts. This restaurant wasn't exceptional when it came to paying minimum wage either. My wages were paid via the bank. All legit. Admittedly, I'm talking a number of years back. I guess the expectations of the american worker has gotten a lot lower nowadays.
i've never heard of anything remotely like this. we shared tips with bartenders and busboys as well, still only made $2 an hour. perhaps california has some legislation in place addressing this. were you an american citizen? the point remains... you still got tipped on top of your minimum wage didnt you? becos it is american cultural norm that servers are tipped.
i've never heard of anything remotely like this. we shared tips with bartenders and busboys as well, still only made $2 an hour. perhaps california has some legislation in place addressing this. were you an american citizen? the point remains... you still got tipped on top of your minimum wage didnt you? becos it is american cultural norm that servers are tipped.
What is so weird? A place of work that pays a 'fair' wage for your work? And yes, I got tipped. We didn't have bartenders, so only shared tips with busboys/girls. And yes, I am an american citizen, lived in the US, paid my taxes in the US. I have no problem with tipping and I don't know what legislation California would have to address for whatever you think needs to be addressed by legislation.
i've never heard of anything remotely like this. we shared tips with bartenders and busboys as well, still only made $2 an hour. perhaps california has some legislation in place addressing this. were you an american citizen? the point remains... you still got tipped on top of your minimum wage didnt you? becos it is american cultural norm that servers are tipped.
"Workers' tips at issue in congressional minimum-wage bill
CBS2CHICAGO ^ | 02 AUGUST 2006 | AP
WASHINGTON (AP) Tip money earned by waitresses in Las Vegas, manicurists in Hollywood and bartenders in Seattle is on the table in the nation's capital as lawmakers scrap over an election-year minimum wage bill.
Nevada, California and Washington are among seven states where workers get to keep their tips on top of getting paid their state's full minimum wage."
So next time SS, don't be so quick in saying my story stinks.
"Workers' tips at issue in congressional minimum-wage bill
CBS2CHICAGO ^ | 02 AUGUST 2006 | AP
WASHINGTON (AP) Tip money earned by waitresses in Las Vegas, manicurists in Hollywood and bartenders in Seattle is on the table in the nation's capital as lawmakers scrap over an election-year minimum wage bill.
Nevada, California and Washington are among seven states where workers get to keep their tips on top of getting paid their state's full minimum wage."
So next time SS, don't be so quick in saying my story stinks.
erm...that was 2 years ago...what happened?
And Dunk, the whole busdrive ANALogy was pretty lame.
When you come here either tip or don't tip.
It is obviously your own personal choice.
But don't be surprised when you make an ass out of yourself.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
i knew a goold ol' fashioned tipping thread would bring The Soulster out of his retirement home..
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
you don't pay extra. you pay the same fees only in 2 separate bills. i know you scotsman hate having to use the mass between your ears, but sometimes life demands it, ya know? over there, you roll them into one to accommodate the setbacks of generations of inbreeding, here we keep them separate, figuring people are grown up enough to handle the responsibility.
not the salary of the servers though. that salary is left to the discretion of the consumer, who is better able to reward and punish good and bad service, leaving the owner free to concentrate on providing good food.
but i PAY it. i may question the wisdom of it, but i don't fuck over the guy who owns the station or pumps the gas becos i think gas policies of your country (policies that guy has NO control over) are unreasonable.
I do not think that happens. In fact, my bank usually shows debit transactions as "pending" transactions and the money usually isn't withdrawn until a day or so later. I can access the pending transactions and have never seen them listed as more than my check...or at least more than my check plus the actual tip.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
ok i dont pay extra as such... in real terms.. but if the service is shit the bill is $20... if the service is great its $25... so i paid extra to get better service.. here's a revolutionary new idea... fire staff who are shit at their job and pay them a minimum wage, the cost of the meal stays the same (as you've just pointed out) the staff get a regular wage and the owner gets the same in takings each week... the bill is $54 then the customer is happy because he knows the actual bill... not "oh i better pay 17.9% extra because she was a 7 out of 10.
owners are only required by law to pay enough wages to cover taxes. this is why i say your paltry attempts to make a statement of protest by not tipping doesn't do shit. you fuck over a worker who has not say in the matter and don't hurt the person responsible for the system one bit. they don't even know about your bullshit protest.
oh yeah, I NEVER use a debit card at a hotel.
so you think it's unwise. fair enough. why does that justify you in fucking over the lowest person on the totem pole becos you think your country has the superior way of doing things? isnt that the sort of attitude you bitch about americans having all the time?
where were you a waitress that you were paid minimum wage? we were paid $2 an hour, significantly below minimum wage, and that was paid only to cover our government taxes.
A long time ago, in Sacramento. Can't remember the name of the place, but it was one of those franchise type restaurants. Hell.. I even remember working for a month or so at Foxy Loxy (a bagel place) for minimum wage back then.
me.. bitch? well i never
i'm saying i wont tip if the service is shit or even average.. people should do their jobs professionally regardless of their career.. i.e. i'd be annoyed if the bus driver took me a 45 minute detour and then dropped me off at totally different spot.. he's done a crap job.
if a waiter doesnt do a good job then i wont tip.. thats all i'm saying
franchise? also, a bagel place? those ain't restaurants chief. you don't get full service there. you buy your bagel and they give it to you over the counter. fast food is not a restaurant.
Not at the bagel place. I was just mentioning it because of minimum wage. But the restaurant was a FULL service restaurant. When I say franchise, I mean by that, that it wasn't an 'exclusive' one off fancy restaurant but one of those that will have a restaurant in various cities. Not a mcdonald's, not a Hard Rock Cafe or a TGIF type restaurant. A 'proper' one that paid a decent wage.
Still SS, exclusive restaurant or not, I got paid minimum wage (and not $2/hour) and was able to pay my rent, buy my food and drink. I did not have to rely on tips.
dunk, I agree with what you're saying in terms of how it *should* be. However, while traveling in foreign countries, you really should adhere to what is customary while you're there. it's just common courtesy. Really, in the US, it is acceptable to tip LESS for poor service not not at all, unless it is REALLY BAD for some reason, like ok, if I witnessed the waiter spitting in my soup or something...For average service, you tip average, which is 20% for dinner. It is NOT the best system, but really I would not travel to scotland and not adhere to local customs. it just seems very wrong. that "average" waiter is depending on that tip, because it is how the system works.
WOW.
are you truly serious? do you work in one of those 4-5 star restaurants? and even there....sheesh. i live in NY, work in manhattan....eat in restaurants in both, and 20% is considered a GOOD/fair/generous tip. it's pretty much my standard, i may go over a wee bit for exceptional service, if it's a holiday....or just to round off the $ amount at times....but i highly doubt i EVER tip above say 22% at most. 20% is it. for years 15% was the "standard"...don't remember when it upped to 20, but it absolutely customary for GOOD/great service. i can understand 'wanting' it...i just can't believe you actually get it!
hell, i'd like a 10K raise this year, doesn't mean i'll get it....no matter how excellent an employee/asset i may be. granted, i am a well paid salaried employee who also gets overtime pay, full benefits, paid vacations, etc...but hell yea, i think it's a bit much to put it mildly to expect the customer to tip THAT high, even if you are the most fantastic waitperson ever. it is rare for me/us to undertip...but sure, if the service is THAT bad, you betcha we do....and sure, it's usually 15% nowadays, or maybe even 10% if the service is horrible. i think maybe 1-2x we've ever left NO tip, but obviously...must've be a terrible experience. shit, i KNOW waitstaff depend on tips, but i think 20% is VERY generous, so to just think it's *ok*...honestly i find annoying. while it's customary, it isn't 'mandatory' so i think one should appreciate that?
and to the topic: i NEVEr use a debit card, period. i HAVE one, but it is simply used to get cash out of the ATM. otherwise it just makes more sense for us to use true creidt cards, pay the bill in full each month, and it's like an interest-free loan on everything you purchase for a month. keep our own $$$ in the bank that much longer. win-win...and no *holds* on our money.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
proper? what does that mean? it was proper becos it was the one restaurant out of tens of thousands that paid federal general minimum wages? also, did you still get tipped? were your wages paid in cash? were you a server or a cook or bus boy? something about your story here stinks.
to GTD, where are you living that 20% is average? generally, i tip 20% unless service is terrible, but mainly becos i was a waiter and know most people are cheapskate scrooges like dunk that like to take out their unhappiness on people who have no power to respond. nonetheless, i thought average was supposed to be 15%?
I've really heard 20% was average for several years now! I USED to do 15%, but it went up...everyone I go out to eat with- family, coworkers, friends who don't make much money, we always tip 20%.
Proper means a restaurant, sit down, with tables, menus on the table and waiters/waitresses, bus boys/girls, etc. As I explained, not a 'fast food' restaurant as you were implying. I was a waitress and I also got tips - though we did share those with the busboy/girl which was only fair as they sorted your tables out - and I was expected to work long shifts. This restaurant wasn't exceptional when it came to paying minimum wage either. My wages were paid via the bank. All legit. Admittedly, I'm talking a number of years back. I guess the expectations of the american worker has gotten a lot lower nowadays.
ive been doing that anyway, i wish they'd told that to the rednecks who used to come into the place i worked and stretch to find 10%.
i've never heard of anything remotely like this. we shared tips with bartenders and busboys as well, still only made $2 an hour. perhaps california has some legislation in place addressing this. were you an american citizen? the point remains... you still got tipped on top of your minimum wage didnt you? becos it is american cultural norm that servers are tipped.
What is so weird? A place of work that pays a 'fair' wage for your work? And yes, I got tipped. We didn't have bartenders, so only shared tips with busboys/girls. And yes, I am an american citizen, lived in the US, paid my taxes in the US. I have no problem with tipping and I don't know what legislation California would have to address for whatever you think needs to be addressed by legislation.
definitely sounds like it could be a state issue.
"Workers' tips at issue in congressional minimum-wage bill
CBS2CHICAGO ^ | 02 AUGUST 2006 | AP
WASHINGTON (AP) Tip money earned by waitresses in Las Vegas, manicurists in Hollywood and bartenders in Seattle is on the table in the nation's capital as lawmakers scrap over an election-year minimum wage bill.
Nevada, California and Washington are among seven states where workers get to keep their tips on top of getting paid their state's full minimum wage."
So next time SS, don't be so quick in saying my story stinks.
And Dunk, the whole busdrive ANALogy was pretty lame.
When you come here either tip or don't tip.
It is obviously your own personal choice.
But don't be surprised when you make an ass out of yourself.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away