I agree that is sort of the tone the original post and some others have taken in this thread!
for me, it is more of a societal issue that the OP touches on, that basically in our culture, you are raised and expected to procreate and if you don't then you are nuts and some how less valuable to society. there's no problem with individual people who want to have kids (though I reiterate my point about many people not considering the social costs of having a litter) it's more of a societal thing.
I understand where you're coming from, as well. My sister isn't married and doesn't have kids, and it honestly makes people uncomfortable...like she has no right to remain single and childless.
I had an aunt who lived an amazing life. She was born in 1908. She was the first woman in MO to receive her realtor's license. She traveled all over the world and she never let anyone tell her that she couldn't do something. And yet, my grandma and my other aunt always would say how they felt so sorry for her because she never married or had kids. :rolleyes:
So I definitely understand and share your disdain for the attitude that we should all grow up, get married, have kids to replace us and then die.
I understand where you're coming from, as well. My sister isn't married and doesn't have kids, and it honestly makes people uncomfortable...like she has no right to remain single and childless.
I had an aunt who lived an amazing life. She was born in 1908. She was the first woman in MO to receive her realtor's license. She traveled all over the world and she never let anyone tell her that she couldn't do something. And yet, my grandma and my other aunt always would say how they felt so sorry for her because she never married or had kids. :rolleyes:
So I definitely understand and share your disdain for the attitude that we should all grow up, get married, have kids to replace us and then die.
I agree with this too.....I have lots of friends and family who have chosen to NOT have children....I wouldn't dream of asking them why! It is their business.
oxc
~*LIVE~LOVE~LAUGH*~
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
I had an aunt who lived an amazing life. She was born in 1908. She was the first woman in MO to receive her realtor's license. She traveled all over the world and she never let anyone tell her that she couldn't do something. And yet, my grandma and my other aunt always would say how they felt so sorry for her because she never married or had kids. :rolleyes:
I read a book recently called Singled Out that is basically about this whole phenomenon- the accomplishments and happiness of single people in our society are disregarded and pushed aside, valued less, ignored. It is a very compelling book.
I read a book recently called Singled Out that is basically about this whole phenomenon- the accomplishments and happiness of single people in our society are disregarded and pushed aside, valued less, ignored. It is a very compelling book.
Overall, society is changing. Non-breeders are becoming very common and 'hip'... in 20 years, it will be a non-issue.
wow thats kind of harsh - whats next wanting less of a certain race or ethnic group
Rereading I see that now. So, no I'm saying there should be fewer children (future adults) period. No race or socioeconomic preference.
Our planet can only handle so much.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Overall, society is changing. Non-breeders are becoming very common and 'hip'... in 20 years, it will be a non-issue.
Hope that's true.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I think the problem that some of us have with a thread like this is the implication from the beginning that those who choose to parent have failed to consider that there are other choices, and are therefore wrong.
I'm all for a healthy and constructive discussion about the pros and cons of absolutely anything. I just find it offensive that my decision to have a child is viewed as irresponsible, hasty and incorrect because of the poor actions of others.
But, it is kind of funny to hear someone who doesn't have a child tell me how horrible my life is because I have one.
Don't think your life is horrible, from other posts/threads, I gather that you are enjoying life very much.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
That's cool, but did you think about other ways to watch children grow and develop (ie, mentoring, teaching, adopting) rather than creating another human being?
Urban, everything you've said I completely agree with. It's like you are typing my beliefs. I have never had anyone sharemy poiont of view before! It's nice to see someone else thinking the same way. If i EVER decided to "have" a child, (GULP) I would want to adopt...the world does not need another human being born. I don't need to have my genes look back at me. If you've ever looked at adoption websites, it's heartbreaking.
Urban, everything you've said I completely agree with. It's like you are typing my beliefs. I have never had anyone sharemy poiont of view before! It's nice to see someone else thinking the same way. If i EVER decided to "have" a child, (GULP) I would want to adopt...the world does not need another human being born. I don't need to have my genes look back at me. If you've ever looked at adoption websites, it's heartbreaking.
Awesome, I understand how rare it is to not want to birth your own child. Most people can't fathom the thought.
It's the foster kid commercials that get me - Kids getting older and older waiting for a permanent home.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
As a dog owner/lover, I'm sure that you have a problem with people who have 15 dogs or 40 cats that they can't/won't take care of (hell, even if they have 1 animal they won't take care of). You can see the distinction of good pet owners and bad ones... Parents are no different, there are great ones and terrible ones.
They way that you come across in this thread is the same as Peta lumping you (as a pet owner) in with the crazy cat lady or the guy with a malnourished, neglected dog tied to a tree 24/7.
Second, the pet angle is a good one to take with me. I have a cat purchased from a pet store back in 1998. At that time I was not as well informed about all the different shelters and how many animals are put to death simply to make space.
Now I only adopt animals from shelters. In the future, depending on my lifestyle, I may only foster pets or volunteer at a shelter to get my animal fix. There are plenty of different options available to me.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
10. Time, energy, and money saved can be used to help existing people and animals in need, or to support any other worthwhile endeavor.
9. Our restraint means one less person sentenced to life in a world where our quality of life is deteriorating, and where opportunities are dwindling.
8. Our heir non-apparent will leave more room for wildlife and its habitat, saving trees by avoiding the need to build another house.
7. Society will never have to educate, adjudicate, institutionalize, or support our non-born child.
6. Each new person we don't create means one less car spewing toxic waste and taking parking space.
5. Our recessive genes won't combine to pass on genetic quirks such as alcoholism, cancer, or the urge to go shopping.
4. We avoid the possibility of our progeny ending up as fodder for cannon or factory.
3. Our non-existent offspring won't create a plethora of offspring in spite of our admonitions to be responsible.
2. Humanity will never be cursed by our little darling turning out to be more like Hitler than Gandhi.
1. We achieve the equivalent of a lifetime of 100% recycling without lifting a finger. <--- Not having (biological) kids is such an easy way to help the environment.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Now that that is out there:
1. My genes are shot to hell.
2. Why would I want to bring about life in this world when I do not have to? Why in an unnecessary way create something that is going to live in this world and face unforeseen but blatantly evident day to day problems?
When I feel the void and when/if I feel the biological need to raise a child I will consider raising an adopted child if I can provide for him or her. However to have a child, in my eyes, just to fill a void, that is with the sole purpose of helping yourself, in ones life is almost as selfish as suicide.
10. Time, energy, and money saved can be used to help existing people and animals in need, or to support any other worthwhile endeavor.
9. Our restraint means one less person sentenced to life in a world where our quality of life is deteriorating, and where opportunities are dwindling.
8. Our heir non-apparent will leave more room for wildlife and its habitat, saving trees by avoiding the need to build another house.
7. Society will never have to educate, adjudicate, institutionalize, or support our non-born child.
6. Each new person we don't create means one less car spewing toxic waste and taking parking space.
5. Our recessive genes won't combine to pass on genetic quirks such as alcoholism, cancer, or the urge to go shopping.
4. We avoid the possibility of our progeny ending up as fodder for cannon or factory.
3. Our non-existent offspring won't create a plethora of offspring in spite of our admonitions to be responsible.
2. Humanity will never be cursed by our little darling turning out to be more like Hitler than Gandhi.
1. We achieve the equivalent of a lifetime of 100% recycling without lifting a finger. <--- Not having (biological) kids is such an easy way to help the environment.
Now that that is out there:
1. My genes are shot to hell.
2. Why would I want to bring about life in this world when I do not have to? Why in an unnecessary way create something that is going to live in this world and face unforeseen but blatantly evident day to day problems?
When I feel the void and when/if I feel the biological need to raise a child I will consider raising an adopted child if I can provide for him or her. However to have a child, in my eyes, just to fill a void, that is with the sole purpose of helping yourself, in ones life is almost as selfish as suicide.
It's a good job not everyone thought like this, the human race would die out.
Such a simple yes or no question, yet I do not know how to answer.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I'm just wondering if those that keep insisting that having kids is "selfish" have you ever spent just a week caring, holding, nursing, feeding, bathing, clothing, playing, reading to, etc. to a child? also receiving and giving affection and love with that child, to then after that week thought to yourself "that was really selfish of Me?" that would be ridiculous. so why is it "selfish" to love and care for a child for 18 years?
I don't think that someone that chooses not to have kids is selfish. some people choose not to have kids and some do. so why do childless people throw out the words "selfish" and "breeders" to insult people that have kids? I'm just wondering how they justify that?
I have a numerous reasons why i wanted my kids. for one thing I've always had an strong inclination to nurture. it just "feels right" to me to take care of others. I'm not going to go into the other reasons as they're more personal.
now that my kids are grown and out of the house sure i love my alone time, but I also kinda miss feeling needed
It's a good job not everyone thought like this, the human race would die out.
Seriously?
The current world population is at 6,636,973,003 people.
How long do you think it would take to kill that many people off? And, don't you think there would be some sort of movement by people changing their minds and becoming for procreation to save our species?
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
i had 2 kids purely and simple because it was either that or she wouldn't have sex with me.
i just always wanted them... partly because i thought i'd be fun and i'd be a good dad and partly because i like the idea of continuing the genes... i've done a lot on my family tree and i find it quite sad when i discover an old uncle died alone with no family.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I'm just wondering if those that keep insisting that having kids is "selfish" have you ever spent just a week caring, holding, nursing, feeding, bathing, clothing, playing, reading to, etc. to a child? also receiving and giving affection and love with that child, to then after that week thought to yourself "that was really selfish of Me?" that would be ridiculous. so why is it "selfish" to love and care for a child for 18 years?
See, I view those as the responsibilities of parenthood, not selfless acts. I don't know that I would say it's "selfish" either. I think a lot of unexamined desires are a part of the decision to become a parent, but people write it off as "the natural thing to do".
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
The current world population is at 6,636,973,003 people.
How long do you think it would take to kill that many people off? And, don't you think there would be some sort of movement by people changing their minds and becoming for procreation to save our species?
Think about what you're saying!!!
As far as being selfish, you could say that everything us humans do is selfish.
i had 2 kids purely and simple because it was either that or she wouldn't have sex with me.
i just always wanted them... partly because i thought i'd be fun and i'd be a good dad and partly because i like the idea of continuing the genes... i've done a lot on my family tree and i find it quite sad when i discover an old uncle died alone with no family.
Hey, I'm not even going to try to dissuade the Catholics. That would be like setting off for Mount Everest - and I'm an asthmatic. :eek:
Don't be sad about your uncle, imagine he was a loner and quite happy to die that way.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Hey, I'm not even going to try to dissuade the Catholics. That would be like setting off for Mount Everest - and I'm an asthmatic. :eek:
Don't be sad about your uncle, imagine he was a loner and quite happy to die that way.
its ok, i'm not catholic... but you shouldnt be trying to dissuade anyone.. its their choice isn't it?
my uncle probably had 14 illegitimate children... not in a Michael Jackson type way though
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
As far as being selfish, you could say that everything us humans do is selfish.
Think about it in what respect? Maybe I need a nap, but I'm not following.
Scientists are debating whether everthing humans do is selfish; I'm waiting on the results.
Regardless, 6,636,976,767 people can make a devastating impact on the environment, etc.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
As far as being selfish, you could say that everything us humans do is selfish.
All I'm saying is, you can't question people that have children because if we all thought the same as you and some other's on the board, the human race WOULD die out... and very quickly.
You could argue, 'why do we eat'? It's only to fill one of our own basic needs. How very selfish of us! What right do we have to go to sleep at night? It goes on and on...
Think about it in what respect? Maybe I need a nap, but I'm not following.
Scientists are debating whether everthing humans do is selfish; I'm waiting on the results.
Regardless, 6,636,976,767 people can make a devastating impact on the environment, etc.
I don't need to be told by a scientist that everything I do, ultimately, is selfish. I already know that. My kids will grow up to be the same. The alternative, is to not exist. The human race has to be a bit selfish to survive! Otherwise, we'd be pretty useless as a species!
its ok, i'm not catholic... but you shouldnt be trying to dissuade anyone.. its their choice isn't it?
my uncle probably had 14 illegitimate children... not in a Michael Jackson type way though
Sorry, I assumed the religion. My bad.
If someone is on the fence about kids, I see it as an opportunity to share my viewpoint. It's not like I'm going to slip anybody an RU486. What people do with information is up to them.
I just hope for the best.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
then thats up to them to make that choice... why should you lean on them to make a decision that fulfills your agenda? seriously i'm confused as to why you would want to do that?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
I understand where you're coming from, as well. My sister isn't married and doesn't have kids, and it honestly makes people uncomfortable...like she has no right to remain single and childless.
I had an aunt who lived an amazing life. She was born in 1908. She was the first woman in MO to receive her realtor's license. She traveled all over the world and she never let anyone tell her that she couldn't do something. And yet, my grandma and my other aunt always would say how they felt so sorry for her because she never married or had kids. :rolleyes:
So I definitely understand and share your disdain for the attitude that we should all grow up, get married, have kids to replace us and then die.
I agree with this too.....I have lots of friends and family who have chosen to NOT have children....I wouldn't dream of asking them why! It is their business.
oxc
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
I read a book recently called Singled Out that is basically about this whole phenomenon- the accomplishments and happiness of single people in our society are disregarded and pushed aside, valued less, ignored. It is a very compelling book.
Overall, society is changing. Non-breeders are becoming very common and 'hip'... in 20 years, it will be a non-issue.
I'd personally rather not wait another 20 years.
Why waste time caring about what other people think?
Fuck 'em.
Rereading I see that now. So, no I'm saying there should be fewer children (future adults) period. No race or socioeconomic preference.
Our planet can only handle so much.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Hope that's true.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Don't think your life is horrible, from other posts/threads, I gather that you are enjoying life very much.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
when my daughter was born.......it was the first time i experienced love at first sight.
Urban, everything you've said I completely agree with. It's like you are typing my beliefs. I have never had anyone sharemy poiont of view before! It's nice to see someone else thinking the same way. If i EVER decided to "have" a child, (GULP) I would want to adopt...the world does not need another human being born. I don't need to have my genes look back at me. If you've ever looked at adoption websites, it's heartbreaking.
Awesome, I understand how rare it is to not want to birth your own child. Most people can't fathom the thought.
It's the foster kid commercials that get me - Kids getting older and older waiting for a permanent home.
Good cartoon depicting what most do
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
First, Peta knows the difference between caring pet guardians and irresponsible animal owners and horders. http://www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp
Second, the pet angle is a good one to take with me. I have a cat purchased from a pet store back in 1998. At that time I was not as well informed about all the different shelters and how many animals are put to death simply to make space.
Now I only adopt animals from shelters. In the future, depending on my lifestyle, I may only foster pets or volunteer at a shelter to get my animal fix. There are plenty of different options available to me.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Top Ten Reasons to Not Create Another Human Being
By Les U. Knight and Cher DeLand
10. Time, energy, and money saved can be used to help existing people and animals in need, or to support any other worthwhile endeavor.
9. Our restraint means one less person sentenced to life in a world where our quality of life is deteriorating, and where opportunities are dwindling.
8. Our heir non-apparent will leave more room for wildlife and its habitat, saving trees by avoiding the need to build another house.
7. Society will never have to educate, adjudicate, institutionalize, or support our non-born child.
6. Each new person we don't create means one less car spewing toxic waste and taking parking space.
5. Our recessive genes won't combine to pass on genetic quirks such as alcoholism, cancer, or the urge to go shopping.
4. We avoid the possibility of our progeny ending up as fodder for cannon or factory.
3. Our non-existent offspring won't create a plethora of offspring in spite of our admonitions to be responsible.
2. Humanity will never be cursed by our little darling turning out to be more like Hitler than Gandhi.
1. We achieve the equivalent of a lifetime of 100% recycling without lifting a finger. <---
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Now that that is out there:
1. My genes are shot to hell.
2. Why would I want to bring about life in this world when I do not have to? Why in an unnecessary way create something that is going to live in this world and face unforeseen but blatantly evident day to day problems?
When I feel the void and when/if I feel the biological need to raise a child I will consider raising an adopted child if I can provide for him or her. However to have a child, in my eyes, just to fill a void, that is with the sole purpose of helping yourself, in ones life is almost as selfish as suicide.
have you been in porn?
It's a good job not everyone thought like this, the human race would die out.
Such a simple yes or no question, yet I do not know how to answer.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I don't think that someone that chooses not to have kids is selfish. some people choose not to have kids and some do. so why do childless people throw out the words "selfish" and "breeders" to insult people that have kids? I'm just wondering how they justify that?
I have a numerous reasons why i wanted my kids. for one thing I've always had an strong inclination to nurture. it just "feels right" to me to take care of others. I'm not going to go into the other reasons as they're more personal.
now that my kids are grown and out of the house sure i love my alone time, but I also kinda miss feeling needed
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Seriously?
The current world population is at 6,636,973,003 people.
How long do you think it would take to kill that many people off? And, don't you think there would be some sort of movement by people changing their minds and becoming for procreation to save our species?
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
i just always wanted them... partly because i thought i'd be fun and i'd be a good dad and partly because i like the idea of continuing the genes... i've done a lot on my family tree and i find it quite sad when i discover an old uncle died alone with no family.
See, I view those as the responsibilities of parenthood, not selfless acts. I don't know that I would say it's "selfish" either. I think a lot of unexamined desires are a part of the decision to become a parent, but people write it off as "the natural thing to do".
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Think about what you're saying!!!
As far as being selfish, you could say that everything us humans do is selfish.
Hey, I'm not even going to try to dissuade the Catholics. That would be like setting off for Mount Everest - and I'm an asthmatic. :eek:
Don't be sad about your uncle, imagine he was a loner and quite happy to die that way.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
its ok, i'm not catholic... but you shouldnt be trying to dissuade anyone.. its their choice isn't it?
my uncle probably had 14 illegitimate children... not in a Michael Jackson type way though
Think about it in what respect? Maybe I need a nap, but I'm not following.
Scientists are debating whether everthing humans do is selfish; I'm waiting on the results.
Regardless, 6,636,976,767 people can make a devastating impact on the environment, etc.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
All I'm saying is, you can't question people that have children because if we all thought the same as you and some other's on the board, the human race WOULD die out... and very quickly.
You could argue, 'why do we eat'? It's only to fill one of our own basic needs. How very selfish of us! What right do we have to go to sleep at night? It goes on and on...
Do you understand what I mean?
I don't need to be told by a scientist that everything I do, ultimately, is selfish. I already know that. My kids will grow up to be the same. The alternative, is to not exist. The human race has to be a bit selfish to survive! Otherwise, we'd be pretty useless as a species!
Sorry, I assumed the religion. My bad.
If someone is on the fence about kids, I see it as an opportunity to share my viewpoint. It's not like I'm going to slip anybody an RU486. What people do with information is up to them.
I just hope for the best.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
then thats up to them to make that choice... why should you lean on them to make a decision that fulfills your agenda? seriously i'm confused as to why you would want to do that?