Honestly, since I am a nanny and I have worked for a few families I honestly believe that having a child puts an enormous stress on your relationship, which a lot of people never recover from. I refuse to become another statistic of divorce and I'm honestly not interested in testing our relationship with a child. We have a good dynamic and we are two very independent people. I know we'd clash over childcare, helping each other and stress. I'm just not interested in setting myself up for disaster. I rather enjoy each other and be with the person I chose to be with and do what I want then bring a child into the mix and possibly throw it all away. Selfish? Heck yes but I totally agree that selfish is a big reason not to have kids.
Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.
I'm going to post the pdf's of these reasons given, real reasons and suggested alternatives from http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm. I'd post the text, but the way they have it set up makes it a pain in the ass.
I'd like for folks to find their reason and respond with their thoughts on the "real reasons" and suggested alternatives. The two pages are posted separately.
Those lists -- the reasons, the explanations of the reasons and the suggested alternatives -- are absolutely absurd. Yes, I suppose I should have "rented a pregnancy simulator", whatever the fuck that is. Then I could have enjoyed the life experience of being pregnant, and not had to bother with the mess of actually being pregnant, giving birth and sharing a life with my adorable little girl. :rolleyes:
There is an alternative for every choice we make in life. The availability of an alternative option doesn't make a particular choice wrong or invalid.
Those lists -- the reasons, the explanations of the reasons and the suggested alternatives -- are absolutely absurd. Yes, I suppose I should have "rented a pregnancy simulator", whatever the fuck that is. Then I could have enjoyed the life experience of being pregnant, and not had to bother with the mess of actually being pregnant, giving birth and sharing a life with my adorable little girl. :rolleyes:
There is an alternative for every choice we make in life. The availability of an alternative option doesn't make a particular choice wrong or invalid.
makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?
Honestly, since I am a nanny and I have worked for a few families I honestly believe that having a child puts an enormous stress on your relationship, which a lot of people never recover from. I refuse to become another statistic of divorce and I'm honestly not interested in testing our relationship with a child. We have a good dynamic and we are two very independent people. I know we'd clash over childcare, helping each other and stress. I'm just not interested in setting myself up for disaster. I rather enjoy each other and be with the person I chose to be with and do what I want then bring a child into the mix and possibly throw it all away. Selfish? Heck yes but I totally agree that selfish is a big reason not to have kids.
I don't think you're any more selfish than a person who wants to have kids. I think that both the choice to have kids and the choice to not have kids are both acts of fulfilling your own desires. So while both choices are selfish...there should not be a negative connotation for the word "selfish" in either case. Does that make sense? To call someone selfish for choosing to not have kids would be like calling me selfish because I want a cup of coffee and I'm about to go into the kitchen get one.
Also, I agree with you that having kids can put an enormous strain on a marriage. It's definitely not for everyone, and it's not for every couple.
makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?
Selfish? Heck yes but I totally agree that selfish is a big reason not to have kids.
i think either choice, in all honestly, can be considered 'selfish'...it's all how you view it. remaining childess can be construed as 'selfish' b/c you don't want to give up your time/resources/lifestyle/etc. having children can also be construed as selfish b/c why else do you have children except b/c you want them, continue on your genetic matierial, experience pregnancy/childbirth, etc.......so insted of labels such as 'selfish'...i just chalk it up to 'personal choice'...and hope everyone makes the choice that brings them the most happiness. isn't that what it truly is all about? being happy, sharing happiness and creating happiness for others. HOW one chooses to go about that, highly personal, different, and no right/wrong way.
edit - i see brain of j.lo already covered it. exactly.
do what makes you happy.
makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?
STD's, Pfft. That's what all of that drug testing is for. :rolleyes:
But for ladies that can't wait for cures there's always the sybian.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
i wonder if the original poster ever had a child smile at them or laugh with them. i'm single with no kids and not having children is my only big regret in life (getting older not looking good on having a kid) but i love being around my neices and nephews - when you have a child smile and see them happy it's quite amazing. are there times when children are pains in the butt being loud and obnoxious - or course, but there are a hell of a lot of adults that are the same way too. we all have our moments that we piss each other off, whether adults or children. I also fully understand people not wanting children as well. it's a personal choice, no right or wrong.
I don't think you're any more selfish than a person who wants to have kids. I think that both the choice to have kids and the choice to not have kids are both acts of fulfilling your own desires. So while both choices are selfish...there should not be a negative connotation for the word "selfish" in either case. Does that make sense? To call someone selfish for choosing to not have kids would be like calling me selfish because I want a cup of coffee and I'm about to go into the kitchen get one.
i think either choice, in all honestly, can be considered 'selfish'...it's all how you view it. remaining childess can be construed as 'selfish' b/c you don't want to give up your time/resources/lifestyle/etc. having children can also be construed as selfish b/c why else do you have children except b/c you want them, continue on your genetic matierial, experience pregnancy/childbirth, etc.......so insted of labels such as 'selfish'...i just chalk it up to 'personal choice'...and hope everyone makes the choice that brings them the most happiness. isn't that what it truly is all about? being happy, sharing happiness and creating happiness for others. HOW one chooses to go about that, highly personal, different, and no right/wrong way.
edit - i see brain of j.lo already covered it. exactly.
do what makes you happy.
Love your posts, both of you. Thanks.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.
ahhhh... if that's the case, then lets just mix up a big batch of kool-aid and all do ourselves in.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
i wonder if the original poster ever had a child smile at them or laugh with them. i'm single with no kids and not having children is my only big regret in life (getting older not looking good on having a kid) but i love being around my neices and nephews - when you have a child smile and see them happy it's quite amazing. are there times when children are pains in the butt being loud and obnoxious - or course, but there are a hell of a lot of adults that are the same way too. we all have our moments that we piss each other off, whether adults or children. I also fully understand people not wanting children as well. it's a personal choice, no right or wrong.
I have and my reaction depends on the setting. Zoos, playgrounds, trick-or-treating or in the line at the bank when a cute little girl asks about my tattoo - I LOVE all of that.
When I'm at work or some other place of business and a parent seems to think that just because I'm female I'm there to entertain their child, I become VERY annoyed.
But, that has to do with parenting not birthing more children into the world. There will always be children. I'd just like to see fewer of them. And the ones that come into the world should be through responsible parents who REALLY want their children, will actually parent them and can provide the basic needs.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
STD's, Pfft. That's what all of that drug testing is for. :rolleyes:
But for ladies that can't wait for cures there's always the sybian.
there you go. plus, sex increases the chances of a pregnancy. so i think you should stop telling these people to "seek alternatives" to childbirth until after you've given up sex yourself. becos the alternatives listed there are about as realistic and relevant to actually birthing children as masturbating to porn is to actually having sex.
there you go. plus, sex increases the chances of a pregnancy. so i think you should stop telling these people to "seek alternatives" to childbirth until after you've given up sex yourself.
I have no uterus and I'm married, so I'm in the clear. Thanks.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I have no uterus and I'm married, so I'm in the clear. Thanks.
ah, so you've become bitter and are now trying to convince those who can to forgo the experience you were denied.
the alternatives listed in those packets are about as realistic and relevant to actually birthing children as masturbating to porn is to actually having sex.
I have and my reaction depends on the setting. Zoos, playgrounds, trick-or-treating or in the line at the bank when a cute little girl asks about my tattoo - I LOVE all of that.
When I'm at work or some other place of business and a parent seems to think that just because I'm female I'm there to entertain their child, I become VERY annoyed.
But, that has to do with parenting not birthing more children into the world. There will always be children. I'd just like to see fewer of them. And the ones that come into the world should be through responsible parents who REALLY want their children, will actually parent them and can provide the basic needs.
wow thats kind of harsh - whats next wanting less of a certain race or ethnic group
ah, so you've become bitter and are now trying to convince those who can to forgo the experience you were denied.
the alternatives listed in those packets are about as realistic and relevant to actually birthing children as masturbating to porn is to actually having sex.
Nah, not bitter. I decided long ago that I didn't want children. When we got our first dog to be exact.
Thing is saying so to people I was looked at as a selfish heathen. I felt I had good reasons, but people seemed to take my decision so personally. I started looking for more convincing ways to defend myself when I came across that website.
Now, I am a bit of an environmentalist, so fewer people means less waste, plus a lot on that website had me reflecting on people I knew who had children.
There seemed to be a lot of fucked up reasons for having kids. Trying to save a marriage. To accomplish something in life. To collect more welfare. To trap a man or forever have a connection to him. Because they had already had too many abortions. They got married and were expected to have kids. etc
So I wondered, what GOOD reasons do people have for having kids?
If parents out there are happy then good for them. It's just not for me and I get the feeling it isn't for a lot of people who just haven't given it much thought.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
wow thats kind of harsh - whats next wanting less of a certain race or ethnic group
Huh? I can only guess how you interpreted my post. So...
I'm not suggesting that only the rich procreate. I suggest that if people are going to procreate they should be able to provide for their child.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
There's no right or wrong answer to this. Ideally, people choose to have kids because they love their partners and feel they can raise their child in a loving environment. It's human nature to breed.
I have and my reaction depends on the setting. Zoos, playgrounds, trick-or-treating or in the line at the bank when a cute little girl asks about my tattoo - I LOVE all of that.
When I'm at work or some other place of business and a parent seems to think that just because I'm female I'm there to entertain their child, I become VERY annoyed.
But, that has to do with parenting not birthing more children into the world. There will always be children. I'd just like to see fewer of them. And the ones that come into the world should be through responsible parents who REALLY want their children, will actually parent them and can provide the basic needs.
My problem with your approach is that you are taking specific behaviors from a small group of people, and passing judgment on everyone who has or wants to have kids.
Instead of just annoying parents at work or irresponsible people, you paint everyone with a broad brush.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm not suggesting that only the rich procreate. I suggest that if people are going to procreate they should be able to provide for their child.
Kids don't understand the value of money. (I'm told) it doesn't matter what you give them, it's not enough when they're very little. (I've got all this to learn).
My problem with your approach is that you are taking specific behaviors from a small group of people, and passing judgment on everyone who has or wants to have kids.
Instead of just annoying parents at work or irresponsible people, you paint everyone with a broad brush.
Hmmm...
I see, maybe this is the wrong forum for this. Too many beautiful, loved, well-cared for children.
Maybe this is better suited for - oh, I don't know.
Any suggestions on forums that may be full of people who have a crapload of kids for all of the wrong reasons?
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Totally. Except me, which if any of you met the majority of my family you would agree that I am bettering society by not having children.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Nah, not bitter. I decided long ago that I didn't want children. When we got our first dog to be exact.
Thing is saying so to people I was looked at as a selfish heathen. I felt I had good reasons, but people seemed to take my decision so personally. I started looking for more convincing ways to defend myself when I came across that website.
Now, I am a bit of an environmentalist, so fewer people means less waste, plus a lot on that website had me reflecting on people I knew who had children.
There seemed to be a lot of fucked up reasons for having kids. Trying to save a marriage. To accomplish something in life. To collect more welfare. To trap a man or forever have a connection to him. Because they had already had too many abortions. They got married and were expected to have kids. etc
So I wondered, what GOOD reasons do people have for having kids?
If parents out there are happy then good for them. It's just not for me and I get the feeling it isn't for a lot of people who just haven't given it much thought.
so becos you're pissed that they judged your motivations for not having kids and were trying to push their lifestyle onto you, you've decided to make broad, sweeping judgments about their motivations for having kids and try to push your lifestyle onto them? do you know what a hypocrite is?
So I wondered, what GOOD reasons do people have for having kids?
to sustain the population. it's just a fact of life, really. for some people it's an instinct. I don't have the instinct anymore. I used to. I honestly think it's 7 years on the pill. I don't think I have "mothering" hormones anymore.
to many of us, that is not a good enough reason, but to a lot of people it is. I say great, let them do it and I'll keep my clean house, disposable income, and stretchmark-free abdomen .
Kids don't understand the value of money. (I'm told) it doesn't matter what you give them, it's not enough when they're very little. (I've got all this to learn).
I know how to do a lot for free thanks to my mom. The outdoors are my favorite. A lot of great memories were created there.
Just don't let them get to you in their teen years. My sister changed everything when she decided she wanted to be popular. :rolleyes:
18 years later, I'm sure my mom is still paying for a bunch of bullshit.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Comments
It's a 'movement' -- VHEMT
The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement http://www.vhemt.org/
Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.
Those lists -- the reasons, the explanations of the reasons and the suggested alternatives -- are absolutely absurd. Yes, I suppose I should have "rented a pregnancy simulator", whatever the fuck that is. Then I could have enjoyed the life experience of being pregnant, and not had to bother with the mess of actually being pregnant, giving birth and sharing a life with my adorable little girl. :rolleyes:
There is an alternative for every choice we make in life. The availability of an alternative option doesn't make a particular choice wrong or invalid.
makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?
I don't think you're any more selfish than a person who wants to have kids. I think that both the choice to have kids and the choice to not have kids are both acts of fulfilling your own desires. So while both choices are selfish...there should not be a negative connotation for the word "selfish" in either case. Does that make sense? To call someone selfish for choosing to not have kids would be like calling me selfish because I want a cup of coffee and I'm about to go into the kitchen get one.
Also, I agree with you that having kids can put an enormous strain on a marriage. It's definitely not for everyone, and it's not for every couple.
lol, good point.
i think either choice, in all honestly, can be considered 'selfish'...it's all how you view it. remaining childess can be construed as 'selfish' b/c you don't want to give up your time/resources/lifestyle/etc. having children can also be construed as selfish b/c why else do you have children except b/c you want them, continue on your genetic matierial, experience pregnancy/childbirth, etc.......so insted of labels such as 'selfish'...i just chalk it up to 'personal choice'...and hope everyone makes the choice that brings them the most happiness. isn't that what it truly is all about? being happy, sharing happiness and creating happiness for others. HOW one chooses to go about that, highly personal, different, and no right/wrong way.
edit - i see brain of j.lo already covered it.
do what makes you happy.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
STD's, Pfft. That's what all of that drug testing is for. :rolleyes:
But for ladies that can't wait for cures there's always the sybian.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I don't wanna think, I wanna feel
Dublin 23/08/06 Lisbon I 04/09/06 Lisbon II 05/09/06 Paris 11/09/06 Verona 16/09/06
London 18/06/07 Dusseldorf 21/06/07 Copenhagen 26/06/07 Nijmegen 28/06/07
Love your posts, both of you. Thanks.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
ahhhh... if that's the case, then lets just mix up a big batch of kool-aid and all do ourselves in.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I have and my reaction depends on the setting. Zoos, playgrounds, trick-or-treating or in the line at the bank when a cute little girl asks about my tattoo - I LOVE all of that.
When I'm at work or some other place of business and a parent seems to think that just because I'm female I'm there to entertain their child, I become VERY annoyed.
But, that has to do with parenting not birthing more children into the world. There will always be children. I'd just like to see fewer of them. And the ones that come into the world should be through responsible parents who REALLY want their children, will actually parent them and can provide the basic needs.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
there you go. plus, sex increases the chances of a pregnancy. so i think you should stop telling these people to "seek alternatives" to childbirth until after you've given up sex yourself. becos the alternatives listed there are about as realistic and relevant to actually birthing children as masturbating to porn is to actually having sex.
I have no uterus and I'm married, so I'm in the clear. Thanks.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
ah, so you've become bitter and are now trying to convince those who can to forgo the experience you were denied.
the alternatives listed in those packets are about as realistic and relevant to actually birthing children as masturbating to porn is to actually having sex.
wow thats kind of harsh - whats next wanting less of a certain race or ethnic group
Nah, not bitter. I decided long ago that I didn't want children. When we got our first dog to be exact.
Thing is saying so to people I was looked at as a selfish heathen. I felt I had good reasons, but people seemed to take my decision so personally. I started looking for more convincing ways to defend myself when I came across that website.
Now, I am a bit of an environmentalist, so fewer people means less waste, plus a lot on that website had me reflecting on people I knew who had children.
There seemed to be a lot of fucked up reasons for having kids. Trying to save a marriage. To accomplish something in life. To collect more welfare. To trap a man or forever have a connection to him. Because they had already had too many abortions. They got married and were expected to have kids. etc
So I wondered, what GOOD reasons do people have for having kids?
If parents out there are happy then good for them. It's just not for me and I get the feeling it isn't for a lot of people who just haven't given it much thought.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
It's a pity more people didn't adopt. That's a little niggling thought that me and my partner are having for the future.
Huh? I can only guess how you interpreted my post. So...
I'm not suggesting that only the rich procreate. I suggest that if people are going to procreate they should be able to provide for their child.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
you're not from the U.S., are you?
Some just do it more than others...
My problem with your approach is that you are taking specific behaviors from a small group of people, and passing judgment on everyone who has or wants to have kids.
Instead of just annoying parents at work or irresponsible people, you paint everyone with a broad brush.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Kids don't understand the value of money. (I'm told) it doesn't matter what you give them, it's not enough when they're very little. (I've got all this to learn).
this is problem with it all, really.
Hmmm...
I see, maybe this is the wrong forum for this. Too many beautiful, loved, well-cared for children.
Maybe this is better suited for - oh, I don't know.
Any suggestions on forums that may be full of people who have a crapload of kids for all of the wrong reasons?
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Totally. Except me, which if any of you met the majority of my family you would agree that I am bettering society by not having children.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
so becos you're pissed that they judged your motivations for not having kids and were trying to push their lifestyle onto you, you've decided to make broad, sweeping judgments about their motivations for having kids and try to push your lifestyle onto them? do you know what a hypocrite is?
to sustain the population. it's just a fact of life, really. for some people it's an instinct. I don't have the instinct anymore. I used to. I honestly think it's 7 years on the pill. I don't think I have "mothering" hormones anymore.
to many of us, that is not a good enough reason, but to a lot of people it is. I say great, let them do it and I'll keep my clean house, disposable income, and stretchmark-free abdomen
I know how to do a lot for free thanks to my mom. The outdoors are my favorite. A lot of great memories were created there.
Just don't let them get to you in their teen years. My sister changed everything when she decided she wanted to be popular. :rolleyes:
18 years later, I'm sure my mom is still paying for a bunch of bullshit.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.