Why Breed?

blackredyellow

Easy answer - Love.

Our first is on the way in a about a month, and we couldn't be happier.

The act of having kids isn't selfish... Sure, you can have selfish reasons for having kids, but you can also have selfish reason for getting a dog, a new car or an iPod. If anything having kids in my opinion is more self-less than selfish because of all you have to give up in your daily life... But at the same time what you get in return is 10-fold of what you give out.

Urban Hiker

I'm going to post the pdf's of these reasons given, real reasons and suggested alternatives from http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm. I'd post the text, but the way they have it set up makes it a pain in the ass.

I'd like for folks to find their reason and respond with their thoughts on the "real reasons" and suggested alternatives. The two pages are posted separately.

http://www.vhemt.org/whybreed1.pdf
http://www.vhemt.org/whybreed2.pdf

soulsinging

Urban Hiker wrote:

That's cool, but did you think about other ways to watch children grow and develop (ie, mentoring, teaching, adopting) rather than creating another human being?

dude, i dont want kids either, but you cannot be serious here. these are not the same thing and you have to be either 1) delusional or 2) not sure about your decision and trying to rationalize it.

the other argument against kids that i think is bullshit is the selfish thing. there may be egotistical reasons for having kids, sure. but it's the dumbest "selfish" thing i ever heard becos the main reason i DONT want to have kids is becos im selfish and dont want to give up my free time and leisure life.

Urban Hiker

redrock wrote:

These kids are going to pay for your old age pension through their taxes during their working life. So the more, the merrier.

Unless they follow the american standard diet and become obese and diabetic before they hit middle school. Then we will be paying for them.

So, here's to good health. Cheers!

Brain of J.Lo

Urban Hiker wrote:

Perhaps. But not a majority in the neighborhoods I've lived. Most parents I've met seem to really struggle financially. Even if it is covered up by all of their credit purchases.

Like I said with my family. They were like, "You just find a way."

Financial distress is not exclusive to families with children. I know quite a few people without children (in their 20's, 30s and 40s) who are also flying by the seat of their pants where money is concerned. Lots of people live beyond their means.

decides2dream

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

I don't like when people have a LOT of kids. it seems very selfish to me. the social costs are so high when you think of how everyone else has to pay for education, environmental damage, health care, etc. I was reading in the Globe Santa, where people can donate to families in need for christmas gifts...this one guy wrote in and was asking for donations for his *7* kids. You know, if this guy had 2 or even 3 kids he could buy them christmas gifts himself. Why do you need 7 children??? do you worship your own genes that much??

this made me laugh!



in all seriousness, i do understand the desire to want children, and even children of your own. i used to want them, very much so. i certainly got married young enough, etc...but we kept pushing it off. buy a home, finish graduate school, went thru some issues, etc.....and then we finally sat down once again and discussed it and realized, we really like our lives as IS. either way, it's a BIG decision and one i HOPE everyone truly puts thought in and choose what is RIGHT for THEM.


however, i do agree....unless you have the means to support a very large family, 1 or 2 children should certainly be *enough* to fulfill the desire for a family. also, those who want kids....ANYone can have em. whether naturally or thru adoption - even better imho - anyone who truly desires to be a parent and raise a child, CAN. for those who truly DON'T want kids...why subject yourselves to the annoyance/hormones/possible failure of birth control...and go for a 'permanent' solution. that is what my husband and i did, and let's just say that taking away that 'worry' for us makes it ALL even better.

blackredyellow

Urban Hiker wrote:

I'm going to post the pdf's of these reasons given, real reasons and suggested alternatives from http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm. I'd post the text, but the way they have it set up makes it a pain in the ass.

I'd like for folks to find their reason and respond with their thoughts on the "real reasons" and suggested alternatives. The two pages are posted separately.

http://www.vhemt.org/whybreed1.pdf
http://www.vhemt.org/whybreed2.pdf

With all due respect, why does anyone have to defend they're choice to have kids to this group or to you?

And suggested alternatives to kids? are you serious???

Urban Hiker

soulsinging wrote:

dude, i dont want kids either, but you cannot be serious here. these are not the same thing and you have to be either 1) delusional or 2) not sure about your decision and trying to rationalize it.

Hehe. Well, number one is possible. And I understand Brain of J.Lo's wanting the experience of having a child. It is a strong physical and emotional sort of urge. If not, why would people go through so much trouble with fertility treatments?

But, I think it's selfishness (even if biologically instilled) to go through so much trouble when there are other ways to be part of the lives of children.

soulsinging

Urban Hiker wrote:

Hehe. Well, number one is possible. And I understand Brain of J.Lo's wanting the experience of having a child. It is a strong physical and emotional sort of urge. If not, why would people go through so much trouble with fertility treatments?

But, I think it's selfishness (even if biologically instilled) to go through so much trouble when there are other ways to be part of the lives of children.

there are no other ways to have your own children.

Urban Hiker

blackredyellow wrote:

With all due respect, why does anyone have to defend they're choice to have kids to this group or to you?

They don't. It would just be nice if people gave it more serious thought.

blackredyellow wrote:

And suggested alternatives to kids? are you serious???

Yes, I actually am.

GraySaturday

Honestly, since I am a nanny and I have worked for a few families I honestly believe that having a child puts an enormous stress on your relationship, which a lot of people never recover from. I refuse to become another statistic of divorce and I'm honestly not interested in testing our relationship with a child. We have a good dynamic and we are two very independent people. I know we'd clash over childcare, helping each other and stress. I'm just not interested in setting myself up for disaster. I rather enjoy each other and be with the person I chose to be with and do what I want then bring a child into the mix and possibly throw it all away. Selfish? Heck yes but I totally agree that selfish is a big reason not to have kids.

covered in bliss

blackredyellow wrote:

are you serious???

It's a 'movement' -- VHEMT

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement http://www.vhemt.org/

Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.

Brain of J.Lo

Urban Hiker wrote:

I'm going to post the pdf's of these reasons given, real reasons and suggested alternatives from http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm. I'd post the text, but the way they have it set up makes it a pain in the ass.

I'd like for folks to find their reason and respond with their thoughts on the "real reasons" and suggested alternatives. The two pages are posted separately.

http://www.vhemt.org/whybreed1.pdf
http://www.vhemt.org/whybreed2.pdf

Those lists -- the reasons, the explanations of the reasons and the suggested alternatives -- are absolutely absurd. Yes, I suppose I should have "rented a pregnancy simulator", whatever the fuck that is. Then I could have enjoyed the life experience of being pregnant, and not had to bother with the mess of actually being pregnant, giving birth and sharing a life with my adorable little girl. :rolleyes:

There is an alternative for every choice we make in life. The availability of an alternative option doesn't make a particular choice wrong or invalid.

soulsinging

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

Those lists -- the reasons, the explanations of the reasons and the suggested alternatives -- are absolutely absurd. Yes, I suppose I should have "rented a pregnancy simulator", whatever the fuck that is. Then I could have enjoyed the life experience of being pregnant, and not had to bother with the mess of actually being pregnant, giving birth and sharing a life with my adorable little girl. :rolleyes:

There is an alternative for every choice we make in life. The availability of an alternative option doesn't make a particular choice wrong or invalid.

makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?

Brain of J.Lo

GraySaturday wrote:

Honestly, since I am a nanny and I have worked for a few families I honestly believe that having a child puts an enormous stress on your relationship, which a lot of people never recover from. I refuse to become another statistic of divorce and I'm honestly not interested in testing our relationship with a child. We have a good dynamic and we are two very independent people. I know we'd clash over childcare, helping each other and stress. I'm just not interested in setting myself up for disaster. I rather enjoy each other and be with the person I chose to be with and do what I want then bring a child into the mix and possibly throw it all away. Selfish? Heck yes but I totally agree that selfish is a big reason not to have kids.

I don't think you're any more selfish than a person who wants to have kids. I think that both the choice to have kids and the choice to not have kids are both acts of fulfilling your own desires. So while both choices are selfish...there should not be a negative connotation for the word "selfish" in either case. Does that make sense? To call someone selfish for choosing to not have kids would be like calling me selfish because I want a cup of coffee and I'm about to go into the kitchen get one.

Also, I agree with you that having kids can put an enormous strain on a marriage. It's definitely not for everyone, and it's not for every couple.

Brain of J.Lo

soulsinging wrote:

makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?

lol, good point.

decides2dream

GraySaturday wrote:

Selfish? Heck yes but I totally agree that selfish is a big reason not to have kids.

i think either choice, in all honestly, can be considered 'selfish'...it's all how you view it. remaining childess can be construed as 'selfish' b/c you don't want to give up your time/resources/lifestyle/etc. having children can also be construed as selfish b/c why else do you have children except b/c you want them, continue on your genetic matierial, experience pregnancy/childbirth, etc.......so insted of labels such as 'selfish'...i just chalk it up to 'personal choice'...and hope everyone makes the choice that brings them the most happiness. isn't that what it truly is all about? being happy, sharing happiness and creating happiness for others. HOW one chooses to go about that, highly personal, different, and no right/wrong way.


edit - i see brain of j.lo already covered it. exactly.
do what makes you happy.

Urban Hiker

soulsinging wrote:

makes me think of the 'do the evolution' video. would these people be willing to give up sex for virtual reality sex? i mean, then you avoid the risks and selfishness of real sex, curb std's, etc. im SURE it's the same thing, arent you?

STD's, Pfft. That's what all of that drug testing is for. :rolleyes:

But for ladies that can't wait for cures there's always the sybian.

audiodave

Urban Hiker wrote:

They don't. It would just be nice if people gave it more serious thought.

I think a lot of serious thought goes into deciding whether to have a child or not, more often than not.

pjhawks

i wonder if the original poster ever had a child smile at them or laugh with them. i'm single with no kids and not having children is my only big regret in life (getting older not looking good on having a kid) but i love being around my neices and nephews - when you have a child smile and see them happy it's quite amazing. are there times when children are pains in the butt being loud and obnoxious - or course, but there are a hell of a lot of adults that are the same way too. we all have our moments that we piss each other off, whether adults or children. I also fully understand people not wanting children as well. it's a personal choice, no right or wrong.