Why Breed?

Urban Hiker

MattCameronKicksButt wrote:

I don't need to be told by a scientist that everything I do, ultimately, is selfish. I already know that. My kids will grow up to be the same. The alternative, is to not exist. The human race has to be a bit selfish to survive! Otherwise, we'd be pretty useless as a species!

The debate is on altruism and if it is actually self-serving.

I know I am selfish, I am depleting resources just by living and yet I choose to continue treading across the earth. Hell, I even take 20 minute showers.

I think we are a long ways off from worrying about extinction, unless the overpopulation kills us by depleting resources to the point that we are not sustainable. We could see at least a small part of that within 50 years - or current day third world countries where it's happening at this moment.

From http://www.care.org/campaigns/world-hunger/?source=170740230000&WT.srch=1
"Every minute of every day, somewhere in the world, 21 children die of malnutrition and preventable diseases."

MattCameronKicksButt

Urban Hiker wrote:

The debate is on altruism and if it is actually self-serving.

I know I am selfish, I am depleting resources just by living and yet I choose to continue treading across the earth. Hell, I even take 20 minute showers.

I think we are a long ways off from worrying about extinction, unless the overpopulation kills us by depleting resources to the point that we are not sustainable. We could see at least a small part of that within 50 years - or current day third world countries where it's happening at this moment.

From http://www.care.org/campaigns/world-hunger/?source=170740230000&WT.srch=1
"Every minute of every day, somewhere in the world, 21 children die of malnutrition and preventable diseases."

Ahnimus, I know that's you...

Urban Hiker

dunkman wrote:

then thats up to them to make that choice... why should you lean on them to make a decision that fulfills your agenda? seriously i'm confused as to why you would want to do that?

Human selfishness.

No really, it's fun having people share points of views.

All kidding aside, I see not having so many biological children as important to saving the environment. Plus, there are a lot of people having kids for some questionable reasons.

Urban Hiker

MattCameronKicksButt wrote:

Ahnimus, I know that's you...

LOL - Is he banned? I would love his input on this.

MattCameronKicksButt

Urban Hiker wrote:

LOL - Is he banned? I would love his input on this.

I think he threw a mental hippie fit and left.

dunkman

Urban Hiker wrote:

All kidding aside, I see not having so many biological children as important to saving the environment. Plus, there are a lot of people having kids for some questionable reasons.

i see bigger factors on the equation of saving the environment but fair enough. there are also people NOT having kids for questionable reasons... i just dont see the need for a persuasive argument on either side of the fence.

jamainiac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWkZ_StRjU0&eurl=http://widget-fd.slide.com/widgets/sf.swf



I like other people's kids... even Love some of them...

But am glad that my occasional hormonal flutterings never beat hard enough to cause me to reproduce... I have a hard enough time trying to look after myself...

decides2dream

dunkman wrote:

i see bigger factors on the equation of saving the environment but fair enough. there are also people NOT having kids for questionable reasons... i just dont see the need for a persuasive argument on either side of the fence.

what possible kind of 'questionable reasons' can one have to NOT have kids? if someone said b/c they don't want their house/car to get messy...while it may be lame/ridiculous...none the less....seems a GOOD idea that someone who thinks like that doesn't reproduce.


now, i am not endorsing the encouragment of limiting procreation, not at all....although there are arguements for that stance. however, i DO believe much of this whole discussion, while perhaps not worded so well, is simply about accepting choosing to be childless as a valid choice...and choosing to be a parent by actually CHOOSING to do so. less oops!....more BC until ready to make a real deicsion to WANT to procreate. nutthin' wrong with that. i think any and all life altering decisions, if they can be made....should be...rather than leaving it up to 'chance.' life is precious and you can't give it back, so best to know you truly WANT to be a parent and raise a child.

soulsinging

decides2dream wrote:

what possible kind of 'questionable reasons' can one have to NOT have kids? if someone said b/c they don't want their house/car to get messy...while it may be lame/ridiculous...none the less....seems a GOOD idea that someone who thinks like that doesn't reproduce.


now, i am not endorsing the encouragment of limiting procreation, not at all....although there are arguements for that stance. however, i DO believe much of this whole discussion, while perhaps not worded so well, is simply about accepting choosing to be childless as a valid choice...and choosing to be a parent by actually CHOOSING to do so. less oops!....more BC until ready to make a real deicsion to WANT to procreate. nutthin' wrong with that. i think any and all life altering decisions, if they can be made....should be...rather than leaving it up to 'chance.' life is precious and you can't give it back, so best to know you truly WANT to be a parent and raise a child.

i agree we should be accepting of others' choices, but the OP's use of words like breeder and the contempt throughout her posts reek of bitterness and the same kind of mindless prejudicial spite that she is complaining about parents leveling at her. doesn't make much sense to try to effect some sort of solution by becoming another problem. and im on her side in terms of having no desire for kids.

edvedder913

It is a personal choice and an argument/debate not worth having for that exact reason.

However, I will say that I got prego w/o trying when I was 29. I wasn't in teh happiest marriage and we eventually ended up splitting whn my little guy was almost 4. Having a baby definitely added to the stress of an already difficult marriage - not to mention my ex was completely UNTHRILLED when I told him I was pregnant. He actually cried - it was one of the most sorrowful moments of my life - I always imagined sharing excitemnt over such great news. I was afraid I wouldn't be such a great mom and my family was as well. they saw me as too independent....so did I.

All I can say is this little angel changed my life. he made me so much of a better person. I never loved anyone the way I love him. There is no better feeling in the world than looking at him when he is asleep. I can't wait to get home from work every day just to spend time with him. he will be 8 years old this month and the bond we have is unexplainable. the sun rises and sets on him and he gives me a reason to laugh and be happy every single day. just his smile alone brightens my spirits no matter what else is going wrong in my life. I cannot imagine my life without him. I cannot imagine going through this life and never experiencing the love I have for him.

Yes it is not easy being a single mom, and being financially responsible for a child. yes, I have lost a lot of independence. but it is 150% worth it. I wouldn't trade him in for anything in the world.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

what possible kind of 'questionable reasons' can one have to NOT have kids?

well i used 'questionable reasons' because thats what the OP used...


1. they dont want to give up their time
2. their career
3. feel too immature to bring a life into the world
4. scared of their partner leaving them


those are questionable to me... maybe not to you but that doesnt make them right or wrong.. .my opinion.. and so thats why i said 'questionable reasons'

those might be wholly justifiable reasons for someone but then they'll think my reasons for having kids 'questionable' ... nobodies right or wrong


peace and love to the entire world
love you all
dunk

decides2dream

dunkman wrote:

well i used 'questionable reasons' because thats what the OP used...


1. they dont want to give up their time
2. their career
3. feel too immature to bring a life into the world
4. scared of their partner leaving them


those are questionable to me... maybe not to you but that doesnt make them right or wrong.. .my opinion.. and so thats why i said 'questionable reasons'

those might be wholly justifiable reasons for someone but then they'll think my reasons for having kids 'questionable' ... nobodies right or wrong


peace and love to the entire world
love you all
dunk

my point being, there are enough unwanted/improperly cared for children in this world. if anyone does feel/think any of the reasons you list above - doen't it seem wise for them NOT to reproduce? that's all.



and soulsinging....i clearly said in the post you quoted "while perhaps not worded so well"...so yea. in regards to your personal comments of what reeks of bitterness, etc.....i'll leave that alone. i think it was merely a catalyst for discussion, you read more into it than i...and whatever 'personal' info the OP shared or not is irrelevant to me in regards to the topic.


basically, it was asked why or why not do you have/want kids? seems an interesting discussion to me, and not too many actually addressed that.

edvedder913....that's a beautiful story, for both you and your son. your ex-husband misses out.

Brain of J.Lo

edvedder913 wrote:

It is a personal choice and an argument/debate not worth having for that exact reason.

Yes.

decides2dream

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

Yes.

exactly.
i don't know why it became an arguement/debate for some, even with it's ill-worded title.....i like it as a discussion of everyone's 'whys' to their choices......good stories!

edvedder913

soulsinging wrote:

i agree we should be accepting of others' choices, but the OP's use of words like breeder and the contempt throughout her posts reek of bitterness and the same kind of mindless prejudicial spite that she is complaining about parents leveling at her. doesn't make much sense to try to effect some sort of solution by becoming another problem.

the word breeder was not nice - i agree.

blackredyellow

Damn these people are a pessimistic depressing bunch.... I added some responses in bold.


By Les U. Knight and Cher DeLand

10. Time, energy, and money saved can be used to help existing people and animals in need, or to support any other worthwhile endeavor. Having kids that turn into productive members of society is a worthwhile endeavor to a lot of people

9. Our restraint means one less person sentenced to life in a world where our quality of life is deteriorating, and where opportunities are dwindling. That is a very pessimistic view of the world... I prefer to think of of the future as something to look forward to and enjoy with my kids.

8. Our heir non-apparent will leave more room for wildlife and its habitat, saving trees by avoiding the need to build another house.

7. Society will never have to educate, adjudicate, institutionalize, or support our non-born child. Who knows... our kids can grow up to educate, institutionalize or support other people like us when we get older.

6. Each new person we don't create means one less car spewing toxic waste and taking parking space. Then the problem is with car exhausts and reliance on cars, not children themselves.

5. Our recessive genes won't combine to pass on genetic quirks such as alcoholism, cancer, or the urge to go shopping. Or our genes such as leadership and intelligence that could help make the world a better place won't be passed on

4. We avoid the possibility of our progeny ending up as fodder for cannon or factory. wtf? These people have issues

3. Our non-existent offspring won't create a plethora of offspring in spite of our admonitions to be responsible.

2. Humanity will never be cursed by our little darling turning out to be more like Hitler than Gandhi. Or bless with our little darling turning out more like Ghandi than Hitler - damn these people are negative and depressing.

1. We achieve the equivalent of a lifetime of 100% recycling without lifting a finger. And loose 100% of the potential of a generation to grow up recycling and help older generations do it

justam

Urban Hiker wrote:

So people have or don’t have kids for many different reasons. I know a lot of people on here have kids who are the WORLD to them. That’s a done deal, nothing I can do about it except wish you happiness, fulfillment and the strength to get through the trying times.

But, why did you have kids? Did much thought go into to it? My mom used to pressure me into having kids, saying “Everything will work itself out. You have to have kids.” That never really sat right with me.

I’ve chosen not to have children for several different reasons.

-Money. Kids cost a lot.
-If dogs are work, I don’t even want to think about the effort a child requires.
-I like a lot of time to myself. Kids come with friends and their parents, sleepovers, parent-teacher conferences and just a lot of activity that would take away from my alone time.
-My family genes are fucked up, as are my husband’s. We don’t need that bullshit continued.
-Kids are loud! I like them fine in their place, like when they’re playing at the zoo – they’re delightful. But, as soon as some brat comes screaming into my place of work I think, “Holy shit! I think my fallopian tubes just tied themselves!” :eek:

There’s a website I love that examines people’s reasons for breeding and gives answers to each of those reasons. Some good food for thought.

Need a teaser to click?
Here’s one of my faves. Reason given: Want to see a little me Real Reason Self-absorption. Lack of ego gratification. Suggested Alternatives Order custom-made, life-like doll. Create a gratifying life of your own

Here’s the website: http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm ; scroll down about a third of the page for the reasons part.

For those who have decided NOT to have children, please share your reasons. For those who do have children, I'm really not looking for you defend yourself. But, you might take some time to think about the reasons you chose to breed.

Thanks!

You may not care, but one of the most important things about having children is that you learn to WANT to put someone else's needs before your own. It makes individuals grow past their self absorption.

That's not the reason I chose to have children, it was just an added bonus I discovered.

Ms. Haiku

edvedder913 wrote:

All I can say is this little angel changed my life. he made me so much of a better person. I never loved anyone the way I love him. There is no better feeling in the world than looking at him when he is asleep. I can't wait to get home from work every day just to spend time with him. he will be 8 years old this month and the bond we have is unexplainable. the sun rises and sets on him and he gives me a reason to laugh and be happy every single day. just his smile alone brightens my spirits no matter what else is going wrong in my life. I cannot imagine my life without him. I cannot imagine going through this life and never experiencing the love I have for him.

I got the warm fuzzies just reading this. I don't have a family, but my twin's family is really beautiful. She and her husband totally love each other, and they totally love their daughters. Their house just has a good vibe to it, even the dogs are happy happy. I wouldn't choose their careers, their time committments or anything like that, but it's so beautiful to know that the big lovelove is there.

LONGRD

currently, I choose NOT to have a child because I can't take care of my own damn self. But I'm still at a "quarter-life crisis" and if things turn around and I'm more secured; hopefully I'll meet that special lady...somewhere, someday...

It's saddens me to see someone like Britney Spears having kids and is very very irresponsible in her motherhood. I pick on her because she seems like a poster-person for deadbeat parents. And I don't mean that in a money/child wealth fare support ways.

My father was a deadbeat dad in both forms: the money and personal relation.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

my point being, there are enough unwanted/improperly cared for children in this world. if anyone does feel/think any of the reasons you list above - doen't it seem wise for them NOT to reproduce? that's all.

my posts on this thread have been consistent... its up to other people if they want to have kids... its certainly not up to the OP to dissuade people from not having them... and my point is that they used the phrase ''questionable reasons' for having kids and i countered that there are 'questionable reasons' for NOT having kids... but it would never mean i'd try and dissuade someone from doing so just because i have them?

actually i have no idea why you were even debating that with me