I have come in to formally introduce Molly to the Doggy Thread. Haven't uploaded any other pictures yet so this is the one from the ad.
oh I want a puppy
we have rescued all ours now for the past 15 years and they have been just under a year so its been awhile for a real little one. That puppy smell and how they just conk out and sleep after being real rowdy one second before and the little puppy prancing, oh and the naughtiness.
I might have to do it!
it's been a hell of a week getting settled in my new town. I'm telling you, I (and gracie) love it here ! pictures soon (if this crap internet provider is capable of uploading :problem: )
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
it's been a hell of a week getting settled in my new town. I'm telling you, I (and gracie) love it here ! pictures soon (if this crap internet provider is capable of uploading :problem: )
it's been a hell of a week getting settled in my new town. I'm telling you, I (and gracie) love it here ! pictures soon (if this crap internet provider is
capable of uploading :problem: )
We've decided we're ready to start the search for a new dog. We went to a German Shepherd rescue place yesterday and of course we wanted to bring all of them home with us. It's hard because you'd love an older dog, but having just gone through dealing with older, sick dogs and them dying... There was one puppy, she had the sweetest face. Wow, some of those German Shepherds were BIG.
We may go to the Pasadena animal shelter today and take a look. I love looking on this thread at all the cute dogs. I miss our dogs Keiko and Ernst so much.
Will be posting some pics of Cleo (Golden Retriever mix) , as soon as learn how to get them uploaded on the computer then here!! Lucky I can turn this gadget ona nd type , let alone do anything with it!!
But the reason for my post here. Cleo has been limping off and on for a couple months now. Been watching closely , but this last week is was nonweight bearing. After a trip to the vet and general check up( other than some tartar and this limp) shes in excellent heath!! Thank heavans.
But this limp. Surgery may be necessary. ACL rupture RHL (possible, no xrays taken , just a hands-on exam) Given NSAID for pain and reduction of swelling.
Anyone elses canine friends go through this? What is possible? what can I expect? If surgery is necessary , what then? you know the usual freak out kinda questions!!! Truth is not unduly concerned, but still would like some shared experiences?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
thank god! I need some new Gracie pics! And HOW can you love Utah?????
altho she does not look super happy, she is ! we had another dog for a week and she was just worn out. note the dog hair on our new, darker than our other house, floors. :shock:
How can I love utah? well, rush, black crowes and the gaslight anthem this month.....and I don't have to deal with the douchefest that is the las vegas strip!
p.s. did you see the pics of ed and kid R. in chicago?
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
thank god! I need some new Gracie pics! And HOW can you love Utah?????
altho she does not look super happy, she is ! we had another dog for a week and she was just worn out. note the dog hair on our new, darker than our other house, floors. :shock:
How can I love utah? well, rush, black crowes and the gaslight anthem this month.....and I don't have to deal with the douchefest that is the las vegas strip!
p.s. did you see the pics of ed and kid R. in chicago?
And the family is all back together! She looks happily exhausted.
Glad you made it safely to the Wild West. (Is Utah considered the Wild West? :? )
Glad you made it safely to the Wild West. (Is Utah considered the Wild West? :? )
the mild west
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Will be posting some pics of Cleo (Golden Retriever mix) , as soon as learn how to get them uploaded on the computer then here!! Lucky I can turn this gadget ona nd type , let alone do anything with it!!
But the reason for my post here. Cleo has been limping off and on for a couple months now. Been watching closely , but this last week is was nonweight bearing. After a trip to the vet and general check up( other than some tartar and this limp) shes in excellent heath!! Thank heavans.
But this limp. Surgery may be necessary. ACL rupture RHL (possible, no xrays taken , just a hands-on exam) Given NSAID for pain and reduction of swelling.
Anyone elses canine friends go through this? What is possible? what can I expect? If surgery is necessary , what then? you know the usual freak out kinda questions!!! Truth is not unduly concerned, but still would like some shared experiences?
Thanks.
Hey... I am sorry to hear about the limp. We went through this about 4.5 years ago and I unfortunately know way too much about it now!
But as for your options...
1. You can have surgery. There are two more popular types - 'traditional' and 'TPLO' (there are a few other types, too, really). Traditional is where they put a nylon string in the joint area to keep the area stable with tissue forms around it to protect it from moving. TPLO is were they actually cut the bone and reset it with a metal plate to 'correct' the slope of the knee and 'eliminate' the need for a CCL(ACL). Both surgeries take about 6 months for full healing and both have about 8 weeks of no to very little exercise/movement on the legs.
2. You can try to manage it without surgery. We did this and while the success rate is not as high as surgery, it can be done and avoids any problems you can encounter with surgery. It's just as stressful as surgery and it is not meant to be easy, but if you have interest in that let me know. The recovery time is going to be close to the same as surgery -- think of it as recovering from surgery without having it.
Anyway... if you have any questions feel free. I'll do my best to answer and I'll be as honest as I can from reading a LOT of stories online when we went through our ordeal.
And first things first... keep Cleo rested right now. No running, jumping, quick turns, etc. Short walks at most. You need to keep the stress off the knee until you make a decision or else it can and will get worse over time. If Cleo is at all overweight you need to start a diet and monitor weight best you can. The biggest problem for dogs with knee issues is weight - every lb you can get off is (i believe) like 4-5 lbs of pressure off the knees. And since you have to slow down activity you'll need to really cut back.
Sorry to be long winded... I never knew how common these injuries where until it happened to us.
Will be posting some pics of Cleo (Golden Retriever mix) , as soon as learn how to get them uploaded on the computer then here!! Lucky I can turn this gadget ona nd type , let alone do anything with it!!
But the reason for my post here. Cleo has been limping off and on for a couple months now. Been watching closely , but this last week is was nonweight bearing. After a trip to the vet and general check up( other than some tartar and this limp) shes in excellent heath!! Thank heavans.
But this limp. Surgery may be necessary. ACL rupture RHL (possible, no xrays taken , just a hands-on exam) Given NSAID for pain and reduction of swelling.
Anyone elses canine friends go through this? What is possible? what can I expect? If surgery is necessary , what then? you know the usual freak out kinda questions!!! Truth is not unduly concerned, but still would like some shared experiences?
Thanks. as for her weight she weighed in at 59 lbs. Maybe a little heavy for her frame but otherwise was given an excellent bill of health. Need to research a bit on my own. She's 8 yrs or so , so I know shes approaching her old age years.
Thanks.
Hey... I am sorry to hear about the limp. We went through this about 4.5 years ago and I unfortunately know way too much about it now!
But as for your options...
1. You can have surgery. There are two more popular types - 'traditional' and 'TPLO' (there are a few other types, too, really). Traditional is where they put a nylon string in the joint area to keep the area stable with tissue forms around it to protect it from moving. TPLO is were they actually cut the bone and reset it with a metal plate to 'correct' the slope of the knee and 'eliminate' the need for a CCL(ACL). Both surgeries take about 6 months for full healing and both have about 8 weeks of no to very little exercise/movement on the legs.
2. You can try to manage it without surgery. We did this and while the success rate is not as high as surgery, it can be done and avoids any problems you can encounter with surgery. It's just as stressful as surgery and it is not meant to be easy, but if you have interest in that let me know. The recovery time is going to be close to the same as surgery -- think of it as recovering from surgery without having it.
Anyway... if you have any questions feel free. I'll do my best to answer and I'll be as honest as I can from reading a LOT of stories online when we went through our ordeal.
And first things first... keep Cleo rested right now. No running, jumping, quick turns, etc. Short walks at most. You need to keep the stress off the knee until you make a decision or else it can and will get worse over time. If Cleo is at all overweight you need to start a diet and monitor weight best you can. The biggest problem for dogs with knee issues is weight - every lb you can get off is (i believe) like 4-5 lbs of pressure off the knees. And since you have to slow down activity you'll need to really cut back.
Sorry to be long winded... I never knew how common these injuries where until it happened to us.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Will be posting some pics of Cleo (Golden Retriever mix) , as soon as learn how to get them uploaded on the computer then here!! Lucky I can turn this gadget ona nd type , let alone do anything with it!!
But the reason for my post here. Cleo has been limping off and on for a couple months now. Been watching closely , but this last week is was nonweight bearing. After a trip to the vet and general check up( other than some tartar and this limp) shes in excellent heath!! Thank heavans.
But this limp. Surgery may be necessary. ACL rupture RHL (possible, no xrays taken , just a hands-on exam) Given NSAID for pain and reduction of swelling.
Anyone elses canine friends go through this? What is possible? what can I expect? If surgery is necessary , what then? you know the usual freak out kinda questions!!! Truth is not unduly concerned, but still would like some shared experiences?
The Late, Great Seamus (black Lab) had a partial cruciate tear that eventually fully ruptured. But it didn't wax and wane as you describe here _ if Cleo ruptured the ligament, the knee would be entirely unstable. I would think that even a partial tear would manifest as consistent limping.
By any chance are you in an area where she could have been exposed to Lyme via a tick? That sounds an awful lot like the Lyme presentation I've seen in a friend's dog.
The Late, Great Seamus (black Lab) had a partial cruciate tear that eventually fully ruptured. But it didn't wax and wane as you describe here _ if Cleo ruptured the ligament, the knee would be entirely unstable. I would think that even a partial tear would manifest as consistent limping.
By any chance are you in an area where she could have been exposed to Lyme via a tick? That sounds an awful lot like the Lyme presentation I've seen in a friend's dog.
That's true - you definitely would want to rule out lyme/ticks. We had it tested more because we hoped thats what it was, but we were negative on those. This does seem like the time of the year for that though so it would definitely be good to look at.
As for as the pain - with Chops he got it on his birthday of all days (not that he knows any better) at the dog park. A small dog ran underneath him during a chase and he got knocked down. Was fine until we got home and as he got off the couch he wouldnt put one of his back legs down. He limped around and it got better as he moved but was limping every time he was down for a while.
Next day he was pretty much fine... we went for a walk w/ no problems. A few days later we went to the park again thinking he just tweaked something and he limped after he was resting at home.
So basically at first he only limped after exercise but was fine otherwise. We had no idea what it was so we took him in and they got x-rays/sedated him. The 'drawer test' (where they look for movement) was not conclusive - they thought maybe a little soft but definitely not a full tear, but x-rays showed some irritation around the joint.
I think it varies a lot from dog to dog, but you can definitely have a partial tear and have that on-off pain where its not too bad. A full tear though would be constant limping/pain from most of what I've seen, but I have ever heard stories there where they went to surgery thinking it was just a partial and the surgeon would later say it was actually a full tear.
Thanks. as for her weight she weighed in at 59 lbs. Maybe a little heavy for her frame but otherwise was given an excellent bill of health. Need to research a bit on my own. She's 8 yrs or so , so I know shes approaching her old age years.
Thanks.
I'd say work on the weight now - every bit helps a ton, especially in recovery.
I can give you links but the reality is that every link out there is biased in one for or another so please keep that in mind. What I mean is that sites that recommend surgery do so because its written by surgeons where as sites that recommend not doing surgery are biased against surgeons who they think are only trying to profit on them.
8 years is older but not too old - I know I've seen/talked to a lot of people who have done surgery or recovered without surgery. If you do go ahead with surgery the worst of it is about 8 weeks until you can start really doing the rehab.
And my PERSONAL experience is that at 59 lbs I would NOT do TPLO surgery. Its a very invasive surgery and while I think it helps for larger dogs, I don't believe 59 lbs is too heavy for traditional. TPLO is also 2-3x as much as traditional surgery and carries more risks (in my opinion).
If you decide to try it without surgery let me know as well and that I can really help with because we did it and still keep in touch with others that have as well.
One last point - those NSAIDs are going to make Cleo feel really good... don't let that trick you into allowing too much activity! We made that mistake and once he went off of them he got really bad and it really freaked me out because I didnt think it was that bad since he was on the painkillers.
The late, great Seamus had TPLO surgery. He was around 75 lbs at the time. He recovered all right, but it was (as drsluggo notes) a very long recuperation. He was 6 when he had the surgery and lived to be a few months over 12. Very stable for the whole rest of his life. I watched his weight after that and he was around 65-70 lbs for his final years.
The thing we were worried about was that it could be a congenital defect due to poor anatomy. So we were always worried about the other cruciate giving way. But it didn't. I was careful for the rest of his life not to have him do a ton of running that would stress him _ never any Frisbee or ever, ever running on hills. But what he did a lot of, up until the week he died, was retrieving in the water. He loved nothing more than to swim all day. It was great, because he'd swim out for whatever you threw, and then he'd swim it in. Sailor would be waiting at the shoreline, then he'd pounce and take the toy from Seamus and deliver it to me. So Seamus got to stay in the water.
I subsequently have been very careful with Sailor, who is a yellow Lab. He's a lot smaller framed than Seamus, and weighs 58 lbs. He's extremely lean. I take him running with me up to 3 miles at a time. He has to jump 20 inches in agility, which is pretty high. I specifically show in only one venue, which allows the most competitive dogs to jump at a more reasonable height. (He'd have to jump 26" in some venues and I won't have him doing that, it's too high.)
I do worry sometimes because in agility the dogs have to do a lot of jumping, quick pivots, and climbing. And the weave poles require a lot of bending of the spine. But I've really worked to keep my crew lean and fit and we haven't had any significant injuries (knock wood). Although Sailor has crashed into a lot of jumps and has fallen off the dogwalk twice. And the weave poles tend to bob around because he slams into them so hard.
So far it's worked well for him. He's 9 now and has two overall championships, and individual championships in each of the 7 tests. And man, he is faster than many of the younger dogs!
I always wince when I see a really fat dog huffing and puffing around the course, or strugging to get up the A-frame. It's just asking for trouble...
But I digress. As I am wont to do.
In summary, keeping them lean is critical for ongoing joint health.
The thing we were worried about was that it could be a congenital defect due to poor anatomy. So we were always worried about the other cruciate giving way. But it didn't.
I subsequently have been very careful with Sailor, who is a yellow Lab. He's a lot smaller framed than Seamus, and weighs 58 lbs. He's extremely lean. I take him running with me up to 3 miles at a time. He has to jump 20 inches in agility, which is pretty high. I specifically show in only one venue, which allows the most competitive dogs to jump at a more reasonable height. (He'd have to jump 26" in some venues and I won't have him doing that, it's too high.)
I do worry sometimes because in agility the dogs have to do a lot of jumping, quick pivots, and climbing. And the weave poles require a lot of bending of the spine. But I've really worked to keep my crew lean and fit and we haven't had any significant injuries (knock wood). Although Sailor has crashed into a lot of jumps and has fallen off the dogwalk twice. And the weave poles tend to bob around because he slams into them so hard.
I always wince when I see a really fat dog huffing and puffing around the course, or strugging to get up the A-frame. It's just asking for trouble...
In summary, keeping them lean is critical for ongoing joint health.
Yeah - we're a lot alike in this...
We've tried so hard to keep Chops as lean as we can since he got hurt. He was 127 when he got hurt and we never knew he got so overweight. He's been around 110 since... every time he gets much over we cut back quickly. It's SO important... and we are terrified about the other leg going someday so no frisbee, etc not that he was huge on that anyway. We limit dog park visits and when we go if it gets crazy we'll walk him on the outside. I know its overprotective, but I dont want to go through that again.
Your point about swimming is dead on. It took us a year between his injury and full activity again, but I think without a doubt it was swimming that turned it around. It got his legs stronger without stress and helped to get him leaner as well. It's such an amazing thing for dogs and he loves it. I did not - I had to stand knee-deep in the retention pond so that when he brought back the toy he didnt run out of the pond and go up/down the hill in. It was gross... but you do what you need to do I guess.
I'm glad the TPLO went well. I think that there are a lot of horror stories but they really are rare. I was scared off of it because when Chops got hurt he was CRAZY energetic and the leg is so fragile until the bone heals.. I just never thought it would end well because even when we did EVERYTHING to make sure he couldn't do something stupid he did.
And now I'm going on too long... But I agree with everything you said!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
she doesn't look like a naughty little hellraiser :? ......then again, neither does mine!
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
She did have 1 good day *sighs....
This heat we are getting is not helping matters. 91* yesterday and 90* today...
I absolutely love this picture, just love it. He looks like he is sooooooooo happy just chillin and smelling the flowers.
1995 San Francisco
San Jose
San Diego 2 shows
2003 Missoula
2005 Missoula
2006 Denver 2 shows with Tom Petty
Gorge 2 shows
2009 Utah
LA1
LA2
2012 Missoula : Meet and Greet : "Instant Classic show"
2013 Portland
Spokane
2018 Missoula
we have rescued all ours now for the past 15 years and they have been just under a year so its been awhile for a real little one. That puppy smell and how they just conk out and sleep after being real rowdy one second before and the little puppy prancing, oh and the naughtiness.
I might have to do it!
awesome crew!
You're saying my dog looks like Ben Stiller?!?! :eh: :P
it's been a hell of a week getting settled in my new town. I'm telling you, I (and gracie) love it here
in the meantime....
http://www.dailypuppy.com/
:thumbup: :wave: to ron and trix
and AWWWWWWWWW! to claire and her new pup
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
:wave:
1995 San Francisco
San Jose
San Diego 2 shows
2003 Missoula
2005 Missoula
2006 Denver 2 shows with Tom Petty
Gorge 2 shows
2009 Utah
LA1
LA2
2012 Missoula : Meet and Greet : "Instant Classic show"
2013 Portland
Spokane
2018 Missoula
thank god! I need some new Gracie pics! And HOW can you love Utah?????
Sir Mike McCready is....THE MASTER!!! WAHHH!!!
EVENFLOW PSYCHOS H.N.I.C~FEEL THE FLOW!!!
"Pearl Jam fans are obsessed, they'd see the boys in HELL if tickets were sold."-CROJAM95
It takes balls to put out a UKE album!
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pag ... 657?ref=mf
The video in the Notes section will really tug at your heartstrings, so be careful...it's not sad, just superduper cute!
We may go to the Pasadena animal shelter today and take a look. I love looking on this thread at all the cute dogs. I miss our dogs Keiko and Ernst so much.
But the reason for my post here. Cleo has been limping off and on for a couple months now. Been watching closely , but this last week is was nonweight bearing. After a trip to the vet and general check up( other than some tartar and this limp) shes in excellent heath!! Thank heavans.
But this limp. Surgery may be necessary. ACL rupture RHL (possible, no xrays taken , just a hands-on exam) Given NSAID for pain and reduction of swelling.
Anyone elses canine friends go through this? What is possible? what can I expect? If surgery is necessary , what then? you know the usual freak out kinda questions!!! Truth is not unduly concerned, but still would like some shared experiences?
Thanks.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
How can I love utah? well, rush, black crowes and the gaslight anthem this month.....and I don't have to deal with the douchefest that is the las vegas strip!
p.s. did you see the pics of ed and kid R. in chicago?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
And the family is all back together! She looks happily exhausted.
Glad you made it safely to the Wild West. (Is Utah considered the Wild West? :? )
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
happy for rocket bubba though i hope he makes it to the USA
How does Gracie like the water?
Great to see her happy and with you!!!
1995 San Francisco
San Jose
San Diego 2 shows
2003 Missoula
2005 Missoula
2006 Denver 2 shows with Tom Petty
Gorge 2 shows
2009 Utah
LA1
LA2
2012 Missoula : Meet and Greet : "Instant Classic show"
2013 Portland
Spokane
2018 Missoula
11 days and counting till their arrival and to get us over the hill from the pain of the last month...
Say hello to Oliver Jesse and lil Eddie Vedder
But as for your options...
1. You can have surgery. There are two more popular types - 'traditional' and 'TPLO' (there are a few other types, too, really). Traditional is where they put a nylon string in the joint area to keep the area stable with tissue forms around it to protect it from moving. TPLO is were they actually cut the bone and reset it with a metal plate to 'correct' the slope of the knee and 'eliminate' the need for a CCL(ACL). Both surgeries take about 6 months for full healing and both have about 8 weeks of no to very little exercise/movement on the legs.
2. You can try to manage it without surgery. We did this and while the success rate is not as high as surgery, it can be done and avoids any problems you can encounter with surgery. It's just as stressful as surgery and it is not meant to be easy, but if you have interest in that let me know. The recovery time is going to be close to the same as surgery -- think of it as recovering from surgery without having it.
Anyway... if you have any questions feel free. I'll do my best to answer and I'll be as honest as I can from reading a LOT of stories online when we went through our ordeal.
And first things first... keep Cleo rested right now. No running, jumping, quick turns, etc. Short walks at most. You need to keep the stress off the knee until you make a decision or else it can and will get worse over time. If Cleo is at all overweight you need to start a diet and monitor weight best you can. The biggest problem for dogs with knee issues is weight - every lb you can get off is (i believe) like 4-5 lbs of pressure off the knees. And since you have to slow down activity you'll need to really cut back.
Sorry to be long winded... I never knew how common these injuries where until it happened to us.
Hope I can help!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Late, Great Seamus (black Lab) had a partial cruciate tear that eventually fully ruptured. But it didn't wax and wane as you describe here _ if Cleo ruptured the ligament, the knee would be entirely unstable. I would think that even a partial tear would manifest as consistent limping.
By any chance are you in an area where she could have been exposed to Lyme via a tick? That sounds an awful lot like the Lyme presentation I've seen in a friend's dog.
As for as the pain - with Chops he got it on his birthday of all days (not that he knows any better) at the dog park. A small dog ran underneath him during a chase and he got knocked down. Was fine until we got home and as he got off the couch he wouldnt put one of his back legs down. He limped around and it got better as he moved but was limping every time he was down for a while.
Next day he was pretty much fine... we went for a walk w/ no problems. A few days later we went to the park again thinking he just tweaked something and he limped after he was resting at home.
So basically at first he only limped after exercise but was fine otherwise. We had no idea what it was so we took him in and they got x-rays/sedated him. The 'drawer test' (where they look for movement) was not conclusive - they thought maybe a little soft but definitely not a full tear, but x-rays showed some irritation around the joint.
I think it varies a lot from dog to dog, but you can definitely have a partial tear and have that on-off pain where its not too bad. A full tear though would be constant limping/pain from most of what I've seen, but I have ever heard stories there where they went to surgery thinking it was just a partial and the surgeon would later say it was actually a full tear.
I'd say work on the weight now - every bit helps a ton, especially in recovery.
I can give you links but the reality is that every link out there is biased in one for or another so please keep that in mind. What I mean is that sites that recommend surgery do so because its written by surgeons where as sites that recommend not doing surgery are biased against surgeons who they think are only trying to profit on them.
8 years is older but not too old - I know I've seen/talked to a lot of people who have done surgery or recovered without surgery. If you do go ahead with surgery the worst of it is about 8 weeks until you can start really doing the rehab.
And my PERSONAL experience is that at 59 lbs I would NOT do TPLO surgery. Its a very invasive surgery and while I think it helps for larger dogs, I don't believe 59 lbs is too heavy for traditional. TPLO is also 2-3x as much as traditional surgery and carries more risks (in my opinion).
If you decide to try it without surgery let me know as well and that I can really help with because we did it and still keep in touch with others that have as well.
One last point - those NSAIDs are going to make Cleo feel really good... don't let that trick you into allowing too much activity! We made that mistake and once he went off of them he got really bad and it really freaked me out because I didnt think it was that bad since he was on the painkillers.
The thing we were worried about was that it could be a congenital defect due to poor anatomy. So we were always worried about the other cruciate giving way. But it didn't. I was careful for the rest of his life not to have him do a ton of running that would stress him _ never any Frisbee or ever, ever running on hills. But what he did a lot of, up until the week he died, was retrieving in the water. He loved nothing more than to swim all day. It was great, because he'd swim out for whatever you threw, and then he'd swim it in. Sailor would be waiting at the shoreline, then he'd pounce and take the toy from Seamus and deliver it to me. So Seamus got to stay in the water.
I subsequently have been very careful with Sailor, who is a yellow Lab. He's a lot smaller framed than Seamus, and weighs 58 lbs. He's extremely lean. I take him running with me up to 3 miles at a time. He has to jump 20 inches in agility, which is pretty high. I specifically show in only one venue, which allows the most competitive dogs to jump at a more reasonable height. (He'd have to jump 26" in some venues and I won't have him doing that, it's too high.)
I do worry sometimes because in agility the dogs have to do a lot of jumping, quick pivots, and climbing. And the weave poles require a lot of bending of the spine. But I've really worked to keep my crew lean and fit and we haven't had any significant injuries (knock wood). Although Sailor has crashed into a lot of jumps and has fallen off the dogwalk twice. And the weave poles tend to bob around because he slams into them so hard.
So far it's worked well for him. He's 9 now and has two overall championships, and individual championships in each of the 7 tests. And man, he is faster than many of the younger dogs!
I always wince when I see a really fat dog huffing and puffing around the course, or strugging to get up the A-frame. It's just asking for trouble...
But I digress. As I am wont to do.
In summary, keeping them lean is critical for ongoing joint health.
We've tried so hard to keep Chops as lean as we can since he got hurt. He was 127 when he got hurt and we never knew he got so overweight. He's been around 110 since... every time he gets much over we cut back quickly. It's SO important... and we are terrified about the other leg going someday so no frisbee, etc not that he was huge on that anyway. We limit dog park visits and when we go if it gets crazy we'll walk him on the outside. I know its overprotective, but I dont want to go through that again.
Your point about swimming is dead on. It took us a year between his injury and full activity again, but I think without a doubt it was swimming that turned it around. It got his legs stronger without stress and helped to get him leaner as well. It's such an amazing thing for dogs and he loves it. I did not - I had to stand knee-deep in the retention pond so that when he brought back the toy he didnt run out of the pond and go up/down the hill in. It was gross... but you do what you need to do I guess.
I'm glad the TPLO went well. I think that there are a lot of horror stories but they really are rare. I was scared off of it because when Chops got hurt he was CRAZY energetic and the leg is so fragile until the bone heals.. I just never thought it would end well because even when we did EVERYTHING to make sure he couldn't do something stupid he did.
And now I'm going on too long...
And mickeyrat... don't forget to ask about Lyme. It's very suspicious for that.
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