see, any woman who says this is ipso facto a liar. becos if a guy was truly honest with you, you'd either feel like shit or dump him within an hour. cos he'd sound an awful lot like me. sexist, piggish, crude, and indifferent. he'd tell you yes you look fat in those pants now stop fucking whining about it and let's get the fuck out of here. and so on and so forth.
Strange that you assume that all men think exactly like you. would you dump a woman or feel like shit if we were your style of honest with you?
sexist, piggish, crude and indifferent arent synonymous with honesty...I don't think you have to be "brutal" to be honest.
I think that most people prefer openness and honesty from their emotional/sexual partners...but the fact that they are emotionally important to you should indicate that you are emotionally important to them thus they should be able to be honest with you and also want to NOT hurt your feelings.
you can do both you know...I mean let's just say that I asked you if "I looked fat" in a pair of jeans you could be honest and tell me "yeah they do - but I would rather be ON time, than late with you wearing fat jeans." you don't have to say "OH hell yeah your ass is getting huge dimplebutt! now shut the fuck up and hurry" or something to that effect.
(*disclaimer - I would never ask this because I dont care...and I have a theory that if the jeans button they fit and if they fit they work for me *additional disclaimer - I realize that you would never be in the position of being my emotional/sexual partner...just go with it)
IF YOU WANT A PLATE OF MY BEEF SWELLINGTON, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY THE COVERCHARGE.
anyhoo...i was just calling you on your shite that i know you love to post. all those easy answers. i really am not interested in another back/forth about you, there seems to be plenty of others here who enjoy discussing you/your relationships with you...i was just taking on that ONE comment.
i dont know if you saw this thing next to that ONE comment:
";)"
but it means i was joking. it's that fun witty banter with another poster (who said it first) that you claim to miss from my drinking days. :rolleyes:
Strange that you assume that all men think exactly like you. would you dump a woman or feel like shit if we were your style of honest with you?
sexist, piggish, crude and indifferent arent synonymous with honesty...I don't think you have to be "brutal" to be honest.
I think that most people prefer openness and honesty from their emotional/sexual partners...but the fact that they are emotionally important to you should indicate that you are emotionally important to them thus they should be able to be honest with you and also want to NOT hurt your feelings.
you can do both you know...I mean let's just say that I asked you if "I looked fat" in a pair of jeans you could be honest and tell me "yeah they do - but I would rather be ON time, than late with you wearing fat jeans." you don't have to say "OH hell yeah your ass is getting huge dimplebutt! now shut the fuck up and hurry" or something to that effect.
my style of honest? my point is people should never be 100% honest with anyone. you are lying right now if you say you would not be upset to hear "yeah they do - but I would rather be ON time, than late with you wearing fat jeans." there is no nice way to say something like that without hurting feelings. so you lie.
as to cheating, i see no reason to be honest. in a past relationship, i slipped up once. i never said a word about it to her and she never had any idea about it. i knew it was a mistake and i wasn't going to do it again (and i didnt). we carried on just fine. if i had told her it would have accomplished nothing aside from to make that mistake even worse. instead of correcting my behavior and putting it behind me, it would have hung between us, hurt her terribly, and destroyed the relationship.
now, if i had been a serial cheater or having an affair, then the hurt is the deception and toll it takes on the relationship, not the lying about it when confronted. if it's affecting your relationship then leave. if he's emotionally not there and it's unsatisfying, what diff does it make if it's becos he's cheating, distant, or just not right? in any case you ought to just get out.
my style of honest? my point is people should never be 100% honest with anyone. you are lying right now if you say you would not be upset to hear "yeah they do - but I would rather be ON time, than late with you wearing fat jeans." there is no nice way to say something like that without hurting feelings. so you lie.
as to cheating, i see no reason to be honest. in a past relationship, i slipped up once. i never said a word about it to her and she never had any idea about it. i knew it was a mistake and i wasn't going to do it again (and i didnt). we carried on just fine. if i had told her it would have accomplished nothing aside from to make that mistake even worse. instead of correcting my behavior and putting it behind me, it would have hung between us, hurt her terribly, and destroyed the relationship.
now, if i had been a serial cheater or having an affair, then the hurt is the deception and toll it takes on the relationship, not the lying about it when confronted. if it's affecting your relationship then leave. if he's emotionally not there and it's unsatisfying, what diff does it make if it's becos he's cheating, distant, or just not right? in any case you ought to just get out.
actually i am not lying when i say that I would NOT BE UPSET by that type of comment...seriously, I think your experiences (current and past) have really placed you in this mindset of "I can be a dick because she is going to be overemotional anyway...all women are overemotional...since this presses me towards being passive aggressive about "truth" all men must feel this way" that ain't how it always plays out, dude. like I said before that hypothetical that you gave was ridiculous in my own experiences since i dont ask asinine "looking for a pout" style questions. I can and do "handle" truth and honesty from my boyfriend. and from past boyfriends as well. I have in my experience been lied to about drug use that was hurtful because as a person that has a hard time judging others it seemed like a bizarre pantomime to lie. I have been told many "harsh" truths by loved ones and did not get upset because it was from a loving person. so even the little "rather lie than deal with bullshit" style questions that i do ask (regarding my cooking, etc) has been met with such statements as "it tasted like the smell of ass and burned rubber" and "actually I didn't find that worked at all for me instead I thought you looked like my aunt poured into latex" (those have ACTUALLY BEEN SAID TO ME) and I didn't even tear up :rolleyes: (surprise surprise) ...here is another not-my-business-judgment call; your current girl (whom you seem to be using as a female standard bearer) is emotionally unbalanced, and immature...according to your postings regarding her...
Also - the past relationship where you "slipped" you are talking about having a fuck and then talking to her about it afterwards?? I was saying if there is a feeling of "I am attracted to someone and I might" then honesty would work. if after you fucked someone you told me that you had, I would be upset blah blah blah but I would also be pleased that you thought enough of me to JUST TELL ME rather than (regardless of if you ever urged to stray again) pretend it didn't happen because you didnt want the "upset blah blah blah" part.
that is rather cowardly. in my opinion, and THAT is what would have destroyed a relationship had i discovered or even felt that i needed to be suspicious. I don't like thinking that i need to watch my man...or having him think that he needs to watch me - emotionally that is exhausting and foolish. a mind fuck is a good thing but it's place has nothing to do with trust and honesty in my relationships.
*this is merely a discussion and i hope this does not read as an attack...nor did I read your statement as an attack.
IF YOU WANT A PLATE OF MY BEEF SWELLINGTON, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY THE COVERCHARGE.
i dont know if you saw this thing next to that ONE comment:
";)"
but it means i was joking. it's that fun witty banter with another poster (who said it first) that you claim to miss from my drinking days. :rolleyes:
i did. i *got* that it was humor... i added a at the end of my post to show that....but yea, you do often post things like you are an 'expert' on the subject...that's all. i also added a next to my 'easy answers' post....so why don't my comments get a pass too then eh? exactly. i felt like commenting on the statement, your intent is your own. i felt like simply addressing the actual words.
and i NEVER said i MISS em......just that i liked you better then, big difference. in reality, doesn't make a difference at ALL.
anyhoo, i think failedpersephone really covered the topic so well. and quite a fw posts back, justam really worded it all so succinctly. for me personally, emotional or physical....it ALL would depend on the state of my marriage how i would feel/react. if i felt all was well and we were totally happy, no issues, etc...i would be unbelievably hurt either way. however, if we were having problems, issues, whatever.....it would be at the very least a starting point to understanding, and making decisions on what's the best course of action from that point on.
quite honestly, anyone who is truly emotionally invested in someone a long time...i cannot imagine just walking away over infidelity just like that. it may ultimately end the relationship, but to say "he/she cheats, i'm gone"...is an easy thing to say/think, just like "i will/would never do___"....you just don't know what life will throw your way, and how you will react, until in the given situation. easy to form a hypothesis of an imagined situation, another thing entirely to live it....and to completely alter your life. as i said earlier, all depends on the couple, the relationship and what both truly WANT.
i did. i *got* that it was humor... i added a at the end of my post to show that....but yea, you do often post things like you are an 'expert' on the subject...that's all. i also added a next to my 'easy answers' post....so why don't my comments get a pass too then eh? exactly. i felt like commenting on the statement, your intent is your own. i felt like simply addressing the actual words.
and i NEVER said i MISS em......just that i liked you better then, big difference. in reality, doesn't make a difference at ALL.
yeah, i often post like an except, but im always just talking out my ass. it's like standup comedy is funny becos it's true. my posts piss people off becos when you strip away the layers of venom and loaded language, we all know there is truth to what i say.
here is another not-my-business-judgment call; your current girl (whom you seem to be using as a female standard bearer) is emotionally unbalanced, and immature...according to your postings regarding her...
i've been referring to many different girls and my experiences throughout this thread. my current gf is only one of them. i get the impression everyone thinks every single thing i say about women is based on one girl. not the case.
Also - the past relationship where you "slipped" you are talking about having a fuck and then talking to her about it afterwards?? I was saying if there is a feeling of "I am attracted to someone and I might" then honesty would work. if after you fucked someone you told me that you had, I would be upset blah blah blah but I would also be pleased that you thought enough of me to JUST TELL ME rather than (regardless of if you ever urged to stray again) pretend it didn't happen because you didnt want the "upset blah blah blah" part.
that is rather cowardly. in my opinion, and THAT is what would have destroyed a relationship had i discovered or even felt that i needed to be suspicious. I don't like thinking that i need to watch my man...or having him think that he needs to watch me - emotionally that is exhausting and foolish. a mind fuck is a good thing but it's place has nothing to do with trust and honesty in my relationships.
so if he slips up once and never does it again, what do you gain by knowing about it? assuming you never find out, nothing changes and he is a better bf than he was before. what you don't know cannot hurt you. if he tells you, you get upset and it strains your relationship, and you can no longer trust him and have to start watching him. especially becos it is fear of losing you that keeps him from telling you. if he tells you and ends up going "that wasnt so bad" he's that much more likely to do it again.
yeah, i often post like an except, but im always just talking out my ass. it's like standup comedy is funny becos it's true. my posts piss people off becos when you strip away the layers of venom and loaded language, we all know there is truth to what i say.
you don't piss me off. for someone to piss me off, i have to care about them in my actual life and/or it have some affect on my life or people i care about. while i do 'know' and care about you as a person, your actualy opinion has no bearing for me...so never pissed off. sometimes amazed that someone such as yourself can hold some of the opinions you do, or that you present that you hld such opinions, whatever.......but i disagree. there isn't always 'truth' to your comments. and we've gone over it again and again. as i said, i did not want to get into it with you, yet again, b/c it's simply a circular comment. we see the world differently. occasionally for shits and giggles i like to call you, or anyone, out on what i deem ridiculous and/or stereotypical bs comments....but otherwise it doesn't much matter. as ever, i will say SOMEtimes such things are funny b/c SOMEtimes they are true. however here is not a stand-up act, and thus why at times when someone posts as a 'comedy routine' in the middle of a serious thread....you just don't know which way to go with it. anyhoo....we are FAR afield of the thread topic now, should've been PMs at this point b/c this has zero to do with the thread topic at this point. so for that....mea culpa.
i think my opinion/thoughts about emotional/physical cheating are already stated, so unless i see thought-provoking posts on the topic, i'll be good and stop posting here!
bottomline...physical or emotional...both can do serious damage....and all truly depends on the couple and relationship.
only a woman would think this is strange behavior, becos only a woman would look back and revise history to say well, if he'd have just told me it would've been fine." fuck that. we know better. if we were honest with you about the shit we're thinking and doing, we'd be dealing pms x10. fuck that. we lie to you becos we know we have to. it's why bill clinton lied about lewinsky. and why every man in the history of cheating has lied when asked about it. that is a cardinal rule. there are 2 rules for me: you don't rat on friends, and you never admit to cheating. period. why the fuck would he admit to it? so you can flip out? so he has to deal with you crying? why?
It's strange behaviour because if you wanna keep fucking EVERYTHING with a pulse WHY do you still need me around????????????????
Oh and for the record I've had guys tell me they've screwed around and we've continued the relationship. The only person snivelling that I know was the guy that couldn't cope after screwing around and telling me so only to discover that I was perfectly happy to continue AFTER I'd had a nice little random fuck to even the score. But you're gonna tell me now how there's something wrong with me right because it couldn't possibly be you and your men's group. :rolleyes:
It's strange behaviour because if you wanna keep fucking EVERYTHING with a pulse WHY do you still need me around????????????????
Oh and for the record I've had guys tell me they've screwed around and we've continued the relationship. The only person snivelling that I know was the guy that couldn't cope after screwing around and telling me so only to discover that I was perfectly happy to continue AFTER I'd had a nice little random fuck to even the score. But you're gonna tell me now how there's something wrong with me right because it couldn't possibly be you and your men's group. :rolleyes:
becos you listen so nicely and cook so well
of course he was snivelling. you slept with another guy. that takes us back to the OP. guys take physical infidelity very hard. women take emotional infidelity very hard (lying about cheating worse than the cheating). that was my point.
you don't piss me off. for someone to piss me off, i have to care about them in my actual life and/or it have some affect on my life or people i care about. while i do 'know' and care about you as a person, your actualy opinion has no bearing for me...so never pissed off. sometimes amazed that someone such as yourself can hold some of the opinions you do, or that you present that you hld such opinions, whatever.......but i disagree. there isn't always 'truth' to your comments. and we've gone over it again and again. as i said, i did not want to get into it with you, yet again, b/c it's simply a circular comment. we see the world differently. occasionally for shits and giggles i like to call you, or anyone, out on what i deem ridiculous and/or stereotypical bs comments....but otherwise it doesn't much matter. as ever, i will say SOMEtimes such things are funny b/c SOMEtimes they are true. however here is not a stand-up act, and thus why at times when someone posts as a 'comedy routine' in the middle of a serious thread....you just don't know which way to go with it. anyhoo....we are FAR afield of the thread topic now, should've been PMs at this point b/c this has zero to do with the thread topic at this point. so for that....mea culpa.
not saying im injecting a comedy act into the proceedings. just saying that i suspect the reason my words here provoke such a response (which is inarguable given how many women are quoting me in this thread and every thread where i say such things) is that they are uncomfortably close to some truths people don't like to think about.
men lie becos it is easier for them than discussing and working things out. call it social conditioning or whatever, but the fact is, guys aren't as comfortable talking things out as women are. we'd rather just deal with it on our own and get on with our lives. talking about it is a last resort only to be used when our back is to the wall.
I love everyone's strong conviction on this subject. Thank you for sharing and not letting my post sink into oblivion, which normally happens , without some hardcore discussion.
if he had told you after this, you DEFINITELY should not have married him. becos he'd have to dumber than a ton of shit to believe that steaming pile of bullshit.
What bullshit???
Not that I have to justify myself or how I conduct my relationships to you.
But that's been a standard in my relationships. You fuck someone else then please don't compound the problem by lying about it and if you don't lie then I might have a miniscule amount of respect left for you to want to attempt to get the relationship back on track. But bottom line, you shit on me, I'm gonna shit on you right back from a great height.
Seems he didn't think it was bullshit because he tried unsuccessfully for a long time afterwards to "win" me back. :rolleyes: Until I was forced to take action that would FINALLY get him out of my life.
not saying im injecting a comedy act into the proceedings. just saying that i suspect the reason my words here provoke such a response (which is inarguable given how many women are quoting me in this thread and every thread where i say such things) is that they are uncomfortably close to some truths people don't like to think about.
men lie becos it is easier for them than discussing and working things out. call it social conditioning or whatever, but the fact is, guys aren't as comfortable talking things out as women are. we'd rather just deal with it on our own and get on with our lives. talking about it is a last resort only to be used when our back is to the wall.
and...i disagree.
btw, men AND women lie...for the same reasons on this topic.
of course he was snivelling. you slept with another guy. that takes us back to the OP. guys take physical infidelity very hard. women take emotional infidelity very hard (lying about cheating worse than the cheating). that was my point.
Who was listening to him??? He was as boring as bat shit.
And I'd long given up cooking for the arsehole, he could never seem to get himself home in time for dinner. There's a limit to what I'm prepared to do.
Who says women don't take actual cheating hard? I'd never tolerate it again.
I think you've tried unsuccesfully to box this is up into tidy little ideals and stereotypes. This isn't gender specific. What you do this time in a relationship may not be what you do next time. What you're prepared to tolerate from one person you might not give the time of day to from another.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME, WHAT I HAVE DONE, HOW I'VE BEHAVED is not necessarily how any other girl would behave. I know this because most guys I know that know what I'm capable of, think I'm more likely to play the way boys play. And believe me they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot and someone is using their own tactics against them.
so if he slips up once and never does it again, what do you gain by knowing about it? assuming you never find out, nothing changes and he is a better bf than he was before. what you don't know cannot hurt you. if he tells you, you get upset and it strains your relationship, and you can no longer trust him and have to start watching him. especially becos it is fear of losing you that keeps him from telling you. if he tells you and ends up going "that wasnt so bad" he's that much more likely to do it again.
aye! okay first, assuming i never find out? well then I wouldnt know how I would react - it's like telling me to try to fly assuming I know what it's like to be born with feathers.
what i dont know cannot hurt me?? nope that isnt true. if he tells me. I get upset it does put a strain but the fact that he told me can act as some sort of balm on the strain. and the fact that he told me, and we weathered the "storm" so to speak would mean that he now understands that there is nothing so terrible that he couldnt tell me...and that would mean that I would be able to trust and I wouldnt watch him.
a fear of losing me should not be a deciding factor in any of his decisions. (OH NO!!! MOMMY WILL BE ANGWRY!!) so if that prevents his honesty - then I suppose I was "lost" long ago...since a man that couldnt look me in the eye and say "three nights ago, I slept with so and so...We need to talk about this." and would rather just think "oh well if she doesn't know I wont tell her and NEVER do it again" is not the type of man that I would want to invest much more emotional and physical love with...by the way - my ability to work through a single-night style affair should NOT be some bizarre license to do it again since it was "no big deal"
I don't know if you are aware of this - but most of your "men are like this" style suppositions tend to seem like a rabid desperate fox that is caught in a medical experiment cage ...and the woman is the clinician. Or maybe like you would like me to think that you are really THAT one dimensional as to have a yearning for a caveman "ugh woman body good" relationship...I don't buy it dude... I mean really is your ideal woman someone you can tell that you want her to shut up and roll over - with maybe like a space in the small of her backs for chips and salsa...and at other times, you will talk to her...challenging discussions...devoid of actual emotions??
because if that is the case, woah I am pretty freakin' close! ...I dont have the chips&salsa container, but I can have discussions on just about anything - unfortunately I need honesty...
oh, that wasn't an offer...it was like a weird recognition...hmmn...
this is an interesting discussion...thanks!
IF YOU WANT A PLATE OF MY BEEF SWELLINGTON, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY THE COVERCHARGE.
aye! okay first, assuming i never find out? well then I wouldnt know how I would react - it's like telling me to try to fly assuming I know what it's like to be born with feathers.
what i dont know cannot hurt me?? nope that isnt true. if he tells me. I get upset it does put a strain but the fact that he told me can act as some sort of balm on the strain. and the fact that he told me, and we weathered the "storm" so to speak would mean that he now understands that there is nothing so terrible that he couldnt tell me...and that would mean that I would be able to trust and I wouldnt watch him.
a fear of losing me should not be a deciding factor in any of his decisions. (OH NO!!! MOMMY WILL BE ANGWRY!!) so if that prevents his honesty - then I suppose I was "lost" long ago...since a man that couldnt look me in the eye and say "three nights ago, I slept with so and so...We need to talk about this." and would rather just think "oh well if she doesn't know I wont tell her and NEVER do it again" is not the type of man that I would want to invest much more emotional and physical love with...by the way - my ability to work through a single-night style affair should NOT be some bizarre license to do it again since it was "no big deal"
I don't know if you are aware of this - but most of your "men are like this" style suppositions tend to seem like a rabid desperate fox that is caught in a medical experiment cage ...and the woman is the clinician. Or maybe like you would like me to think that you are really THAT one dimensional as to have a yearning for a caveman "ugh woman body good" relationship...I don't buy it dude... I mean really is your ideal woman someone you can tell that you want her to shut up and roll over - with maybe like a space in the small of her backs for chips and salsa...and at other times, you will talk to her...challenging discussions...devoid of actual emotions??
because if that is the case, woah I am pretty freakin' close! ...I dont have the chips&salsa container, but I can have discussions on just about anything - unfortunately I need honesty...
oh, that wasn't an offer...it was like a weird recognition...hmmn...
this is an interesting discussion...thanks!
no, what i am saying is that human beings are animals. that men are women are prone to certain behaviors and sometimes these behaviors are different. women are better communicators, men are more simple doers. they complement each other well. but they are also instinctual animals and behave in ways even they don't understand. which is why i think you're nuts for wanting to hear honestly about cheating and you think im nuts for thinking 'what one doesn't know won't hurt one.' in addition, humans in general are selfish creatures. which is why women will demand communication (tell me about the cheating) becos it's best for them and men will just change the action and forget about it (lie about the cheating and don't it again). becos they want their needs met. neither is right or wrong. but the first step to having a truly honest relationship is to be honest about what people do and why.
Yeah, :rolleyes: didums. Poor baby. You know coz girls love it so much they're just asking for it to happen to them right? :rolleyes:
"C'mon abuse me more I like it. Come on keep talking coz it's true." :rolleyes:
Here's a novel idea. IF you don't like it happening to you then DON'T DO IT.
i dont. where in here have i said guys should cheat and women should not and should just accept it? my point has been (in keeping with the original thread topic) that guys flip out over physical infidelity, whereas women seem more willing to discuss it and move past it as demonstrated in this thread. on the flipside, the women here seem VERY upset at the prospect of being lied to, whereas i think most men would find it suspicious but not think much of it as long as he is certain she is being physically faithful.
i dont. where in here have i said guys should cheat and women should not and should just accept it? my point has been (in keeping with the original thread topic) that guys flip out over physical infidelity, whereas women seem more willing to discuss it and move past it as demonstrated in this thread. on the flipside, the women here seem VERY upset at the prospect of being lied to, whereas i think most men would find it suspicious but not think much of it as long as he is certain she is being physically faithful.
You seem to be coming from the angle that a guy cheated on is much more hurt and therefore suffers more emotionally from physical infidelity than girls do.
My point is that men and women deal with the aftermath differently but cheating still hurts no matter if you're a guy or a girl.
You seem to be coming from the angle that a guy cheated on is much more hurt and therefore suffers more emotionally from physical infidelity than girls do.
My point is that men and women deal with the aftermath differently but cheating still hurts no matter if you're a guy or a girl.
you mean like what i said at the very beginning of this:
"well i dont think anybody is particularly happy with either option, but the one seems to be harder than the other depending on who the cheated is."
as i said, nobody likes being cheated upon in any sense. but guys find it harder to cope with physical infidelity than emotional, whereas women seem to find the emotional infidelity harder to forgive than the physical. is this not exactly what you have been saying? if he cheats you might be able to work it out, but if he lies about it that is a betrayal of trust you cannot forgive? im saying a guy is the opposite. if you're spending time with a guy and you lie about, he will find it easier to forgive and get past that as long as nothing physical has taken place. if something physical has taken place, he will find it much harder to let go. the opposite of what most women say. that is all i am saying.
you mean like what i said at the very beginning of this:
"well i dont think anybody is particularly happy with either option, but the one seems to be harder than the other depending on who the cheated is."
as i said, nobody likes being cheated upon in any sense. but guys find it harder to cope with physical infidelity than emotional, whereas women seem to find the emotional infidelity harder to forgive than the physical. is this not exactly what you have been saying? if he cheats you might be able to work it out, but if he lies about it that is a betrayal of trust you cannot forgive? im saying a guy is the opposite. if you're spending time with a guy and you lie about, he will find it easier to forgive and get past that as long as nothing physical has taken place. if something physical has taken place, he will find it much harder to let go. the opposite of what most women say. that is all i am saying.
Yeah, I think you're making sweeping generalizations based on gender distinctions and I don't think they're correct.
PEOPLE have all kinds of different behaviours and reactions to behaviours and those behaviours and reactions change over time and circumstances anyway. Trying to nail this down to boys do it this way and girls do it that way is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.
Is it a required trait of lawyers to make shit up?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yeah, I think you're making sweeping generalizations based on gender distinctions and I don't think they're correct.
PEOPLE have all kinds of different behaviours and reactions to behaviours and those behaviours and reactions change over time and circumstances anyway. Trying to nail this down to boys do it this way and girls do it that way is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.
or like a sociologist trying to see how any social group reacts to various situations. we do it every day and some people even get paid to do it scientifically. i just do it armchair like.
or like a sociologist trying to see how any social group reacts to various situations. we do it every day and some people even get paid to do it scientifically. i just do it armchair like.
Yeah, scientifically is a bit different don't you think?
Coz I'm thinking the view from the armchair is liable to be a bit skewed.
Comments
Strange that you assume that all men think exactly like you. would you dump a woman or feel like shit if we were your style of honest with you?
sexist, piggish, crude and indifferent arent synonymous with honesty...I don't think you have to be "brutal" to be honest.
I think that most people prefer openness and honesty from their emotional/sexual partners...but the fact that they are emotionally important to you should indicate that you are emotionally important to them thus they should be able to be honest with you and also want to NOT hurt your feelings.
you can do both you know...I mean let's just say that I asked you if "I looked fat" in a pair of jeans you could be honest and tell me "yeah they do - but I would rather be ON time, than late with you wearing fat jeans." you don't have to say "OH hell yeah your ass is getting huge dimplebutt! now shut the fuck up and hurry" or something to that effect.
(*disclaimer - I would never ask this because I dont care...and I have a theory that if the jeans button they fit and if they fit they work for me *additional disclaimer - I realize that you would never be in the position of being my emotional/sexual partner...just go with it)
i dont know if you saw this thing next to that ONE comment:
";)"
but it means i was joking. it's that fun witty banter with another poster (who said it first) that you claim to miss from my drinking days. :rolleyes:
my style of honest? my point is people should never be 100% honest with anyone. you are lying right now if you say you would not be upset to hear "yeah they do - but I would rather be ON time, than late with you wearing fat jeans." there is no nice way to say something like that without hurting feelings. so you lie.
as to cheating, i see no reason to be honest. in a past relationship, i slipped up once. i never said a word about it to her and she never had any idea about it. i knew it was a mistake and i wasn't going to do it again (and i didnt). we carried on just fine. if i had told her it would have accomplished nothing aside from to make that mistake even worse. instead of correcting my behavior and putting it behind me, it would have hung between us, hurt her terribly, and destroyed the relationship.
now, if i had been a serial cheater or having an affair, then the hurt is the deception and toll it takes on the relationship, not the lying about it when confronted. if it's affecting your relationship then leave. if he's emotionally not there and it's unsatisfying, what diff does it make if it's becos he's cheating, distant, or just not right? in any case you ought to just get out.
actually i am not lying when i say that I would NOT BE UPSET by that type of comment...seriously, I think your experiences (current and past) have really placed you in this mindset of "I can be a dick because she is going to be overemotional anyway...all women are overemotional...since this presses me towards being passive aggressive about "truth" all men must feel this way" that ain't how it always plays out, dude. like I said before that hypothetical that you gave was ridiculous in my own experiences since i dont ask asinine "looking for a pout" style questions. I can and do "handle" truth and honesty from my boyfriend. and from past boyfriends as well. I have in my experience been lied to about drug use that was hurtful because as a person that has a hard time judging others it seemed like a bizarre pantomime to lie. I have been told many "harsh" truths by loved ones and did not get upset because it was from a loving person. so even the little "rather lie than deal with bullshit" style questions that i do ask (regarding my cooking, etc) has been met with such statements as "it tasted like the smell of ass and burned rubber" and "actually I didn't find that worked at all for me instead I thought you looked like my aunt poured into latex" (those have ACTUALLY BEEN SAID TO ME) and I didn't even tear up :rolleyes: (surprise surprise) ...here is another not-my-business-judgment call; your current girl (whom you seem to be using as a female standard bearer) is emotionally unbalanced, and immature...according to your postings regarding her...
Also - the past relationship where you "slipped" you are talking about having a fuck and then talking to her about it afterwards?? I was saying if there is a feeling of "I am attracted to someone and I might" then honesty would work. if after you fucked someone you told me that you had, I would be upset blah blah blah but I would also be pleased that you thought enough of me to JUST TELL ME rather than (regardless of if you ever urged to stray again) pretend it didn't happen because you didnt want the "upset blah blah blah" part.
that is rather cowardly. in my opinion, and THAT is what would have destroyed a relationship had i discovered or even felt that i needed to be suspicious. I don't like thinking that i need to watch my man...or having him think that he needs to watch me - emotionally that is exhausting and foolish. a mind fuck is a good thing but it's place has nothing to do with trust and honesty in my relationships.
i did. i *got* that it was humor... i added a
and i NEVER said i MISS em......just that i liked you better then, big difference. in reality, doesn't make a difference at ALL.
anyhoo, i think failedpersephone really covered the topic so well.
quite honestly, anyone who is truly emotionally invested in someone a long time...i cannot imagine just walking away over infidelity just like that. it may ultimately end the relationship, but to say "he/she cheats, i'm gone"...is an easy thing to say/think, just like "i will/would never do___"....you just don't know what life will throw your way, and how you will react, until in the given situation. easy to form a hypothesis of an imagined situation, another thing entirely to live it....and to completely alter your life. as i said earlier, all depends on the couple, the relationship and what both truly WANT.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
yeah, i often post like an except, but im always just talking out my ass. it's like standup comedy is funny becos it's true. my posts piss people off becos when you strip away the layers of venom and loaded language, we all know there is truth to what i say.
i've been referring to many different girls and my experiences throughout this thread. my current gf is only one of them. i get the impression everyone thinks every single thing i say about women is based on one girl. not the case.
so if he slips up once and never does it again, what do you gain by knowing about it? assuming you never find out, nothing changes and he is a better bf than he was before. what you don't know cannot hurt you. if he tells you, you get upset and it strains your relationship, and you can no longer trust him and have to start watching him. especially becos it is fear of losing you that keeps him from telling you. if he tells you and ends up going "that wasnt so bad" he's that much more likely to do it again.
you don't piss me off. for someone to piss me off, i have to care about them in my actual life and/or it have some affect on my life or people i care about. while i do 'know' and care about you as a person, your actualy opinion has no bearing for me...so never pissed off. sometimes amazed that someone such as yourself can hold some of the opinions you do, or that you present that you hld such opinions, whatever.......but i disagree. there isn't always 'truth' to your comments. and we've gone over it again and again. as i said, i did not want to get into it with you, yet again, b/c it's simply a circular comment. we see the world differently. occasionally for shits and giggles i like to call you, or anyone, out on what i deem ridiculous and/or stereotypical bs comments....but otherwise it doesn't much matter. as ever, i will say SOMEtimes such things are funny b/c SOMEtimes they are true. however here is not a stand-up act, and thus why at times when someone posts as a 'comedy routine' in the middle of a serious thread....you just don't know which way to go with it. anyhoo....we are FAR afield of the thread topic now, should've been PMs at this point b/c this has zero to do with the thread topic at this point. so for that....mea culpa.
i think my opinion/thoughts about emotional/physical cheating are already stated, so unless i see thought-provoking posts on the topic, i'll be good and stop posting here!
bottomline...physical or emotional...both can do serious damage....and all truly depends on the couple and relationship.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
It's strange behaviour because if you wanna keep fucking EVERYTHING with a pulse WHY do you still need me around????????????????
Oh and for the record I've had guys tell me they've screwed around and we've continued the relationship. The only person snivelling that I know was the guy that couldn't cope after screwing around and telling me so only to discover that I was perfectly happy to continue AFTER I'd had a nice little random fuck to even the score. But you're gonna tell me now how there's something wrong with me right because it couldn't possibly be you and your men's group. :rolleyes:
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becos you listen so nicely and cook so well
of course he was snivelling. you slept with another guy. that takes us back to the OP. guys take physical infidelity very hard. women take emotional infidelity very hard (lying about cheating worse than the cheating). that was my point.
not saying im injecting a comedy act into the proceedings. just saying that i suspect the reason my words here provoke such a response (which is inarguable given how many women are quoting me in this thread and every thread where i say such things) is that they are uncomfortably close to some truths people don't like to think about.
men lie becos it is easier for them than discussing and working things out. call it social conditioning or whatever, but the fact is, guys aren't as comfortable talking things out as women are. we'd rather just deal with it on our own and get on with our lives. talking about it is a last resort only to be used when our back is to the wall.
I love everyone's strong conviction on this subject. Thank you for sharing and not letting my post sink into oblivion, which normally happens
Carry on
What bullshit???
Not that I have to justify myself or how I conduct my relationships to you.
But that's been a standard in my relationships. You fuck someone else then please don't compound the problem by lying about it and if you don't lie then I might have a miniscule amount of respect left for you to want to attempt to get the relationship back on track. But bottom line, you shit on me, I'm gonna shit on you right back from a great height.
Seems he didn't think it was bullshit because he tried unsuccessfully for a long time afterwards to "win" me back. :rolleyes: Until I was forced to take action that would FINALLY get him out of my life.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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and...i disagree.
btw, men AND women lie...for the same reasons on this topic.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Who was listening to him??? He was as boring as bat shit.
And I'd long given up cooking for the arsehole, he could never seem to get himself home in time for dinner. There's a limit to what I'm prepared to do.
Who says women don't take actual cheating hard? I'd never tolerate it again.
I think you've tried unsuccesfully to box this is up into tidy little ideals and stereotypes. This isn't gender specific. What you do this time in a relationship may not be what you do next time. What you're prepared to tolerate from one person you might not give the time of day to from another.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME, WHAT I HAVE DONE, HOW I'VE BEHAVED is not necessarily how any other girl would behave. I know this because most guys I know that know what I'm capable of, think I'm more likely to play the way boys play. And believe me they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot and someone is using their own tactics against them.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
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aye! okay first, assuming i never find out? well then I wouldnt know how I would react - it's like telling me to try to fly assuming I know what it's like to be born with feathers.
what i dont know cannot hurt me?? nope that isnt true. if he tells me. I get upset it does put a strain but the fact that he told me can act as some sort of balm on the strain. and the fact that he told me, and we weathered the "storm" so to speak would mean that he now understands that there is nothing so terrible that he couldnt tell me...and that would mean that I would be able to trust and I wouldnt watch him.
a fear of losing me should not be a deciding factor in any of his decisions. (OH NO!!! MOMMY WILL BE ANGWRY!!) so if that prevents his honesty - then I suppose I was "lost" long ago...since a man that couldnt look me in the eye and say "three nights ago, I slept with so and so...We need to talk about this." and would rather just think "oh well if she doesn't know I wont tell her and NEVER do it again" is not the type of man that I would want to invest much more emotional and physical love with...by the way - my ability to work through a single-night style affair should NOT be some bizarre license to do it again since it was "no big deal"
I don't know if you are aware of this - but most of your "men are like this" style suppositions tend to seem like a rabid desperate fox that is caught in a medical experiment cage ...and the woman is the clinician. Or maybe like you would like me to think that you are really THAT one dimensional as to have a yearning for a caveman "ugh woman body good" relationship...I don't buy it dude... I mean really is your ideal woman someone you can tell that you want her to shut up and roll over - with maybe like a space in the small of her backs for chips and salsa...and at other times, you will talk to her...challenging discussions...devoid of actual emotions??
because if that is the case, woah I am pretty freakin' close!
oh, that wasn't an offer...it was like a weird recognition...hmmn...
this is an interesting discussion...thanks!
exaxctly, becos guys cant stand physical cheating.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yeah, :rolleyes: didums. Poor baby. You know coz girls love it so much they're just asking for it to happen to them right? :rolleyes:
"C'mon abuse me more I like it. Come on keep talking coz it's true." :rolleyes:
Here's a novel idea. IF you don't like it happening to you then DON'T DO IT.
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no, what i am saying is that human beings are animals. that men are women are prone to certain behaviors and sometimes these behaviors are different. women are better communicators, men are more simple doers. they complement each other well. but they are also instinctual animals and behave in ways even they don't understand. which is why i think you're nuts for wanting to hear honestly about cheating and you think im nuts for thinking 'what one doesn't know won't hurt one.' in addition, humans in general are selfish creatures. which is why women will demand communication (tell me about the cheating) becos it's best for them and men will just change the action and forget about it (lie about the cheating and don't it again). becos they want their needs met. neither is right or wrong. but the first step to having a truly honest relationship is to be honest about what people do and why.
i dont. where in here have i said guys should cheat and women should not and should just accept it? my point has been (in keeping with the original thread topic) that guys flip out over physical infidelity, whereas women seem more willing to discuss it and move past it as demonstrated in this thread. on the flipside, the women here seem VERY upset at the prospect of being lied to, whereas i think most men would find it suspicious but not think much of it as long as he is certain she is being physically faithful.
You seem to be coming from the angle that a guy cheated on is much more hurt and therefore suffers more emotionally from physical infidelity than girls do.
My point is that men and women deal with the aftermath differently but cheating still hurts no matter if you're a guy or a girl.
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you mean like what i said at the very beginning of this:
"well i dont think anybody is particularly happy with either option, but the one seems to be harder than the other depending on who the cheated is."
as i said, nobody likes being cheated upon in any sense. but guys find it harder to cope with physical infidelity than emotional, whereas women seem to find the emotional infidelity harder to forgive than the physical. is this not exactly what you have been saying? if he cheats you might be able to work it out, but if he lies about it that is a betrayal of trust you cannot forgive? im saying a guy is the opposite. if you're spending time with a guy and you lie about, he will find it easier to forgive and get past that as long as nothing physical has taken place. if something physical has taken place, he will find it much harder to let go. the opposite of what most women say. that is all i am saying.
Yeah, I think you're making sweeping generalizations based on gender distinctions and I don't think they're correct.
PEOPLE have all kinds of different behaviours and reactions to behaviours and those behaviours and reactions change over time and circumstances anyway. Trying to nail this down to boys do it this way and girls do it that way is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.
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It's a job requirement.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I have never heard this phrase before but im going to start using it.
San Diego 2003
Grand Rapids 2004
Grand Rapids 2006
Detroit 2006
Columbus 2010
"With my own two hands I can change the world."
or like a sociologist trying to see how any social group reacts to various situations. we do it every day and some people even get paid to do it scientifically. i just do it armchair like.
not required, but it is certainly helpful to be able to do it when called to
Yeah, scientifically is a bit different don't you think?
Coz I'm thinking the view from the armchair is liable to be a bit skewed.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift