Party of 20 - The Duggar Family

Medicated-Genius

AmentsChick wrote:

Why do VBACs get such a bad rap??

LMFAO on yer previous response!

VBAC's, and childbirth in general, get a bad rap mostly out of fear. Modern obstetrics are based around fear, and the perception that somehow nature got it wrong, and that womens bodies are not built to birth their babies. This is utter rubbish of course. If women were not designed for childbirth, the human race would have died out a long time ago. This idea has been created that the gold standard of care is in the hospital, with an obstetrician and that those OB's know a womans body best. This had eaten away at womens faith in their own bodies and ability. Recent research for instance is showing that in the US, less than 5% of births are completely intervention free. Even those that are considered "natural" births are not without their medical interventions. It is interesting to note that around 3% of all births in the US are home births. It demonstrates to me that the most dangerous place for a healthy, normal pregnant woman is in the hospital. Don't get me wrong, modern obstetrics can be wonderful, but like anything, should not be abused.
An OB's is a specialist in difficult and complicated pregnancy and birth, NOT normal birth. The expert in normal birth (80% of women when left the hell alone) is a midwife. She has the clinical skills and experience to recognize when things are not within the range of normal and refer on to the specialist. Sadly, due to power struggles and fear, very few OB's can say the same. They are NOT recognizing a normal pregnancy and referring to the specialist in that area. They are taking on women who have no complications at all, and because they come at childbirth as a problem to be fixed, interfere with a perfectly normal and natural process and make it high tech.
To give an example of how inexperienced an OB is with normal birth. Firstly, very few OB's have even attended normal birth, in most instances where they are not the primary caregiver, they are not called unless complications develop. I was recently doing a rotation in a large tertiary hospital here. I am midway through my second year of a 3 year degree in midwifery and a woman presented in very established labour. She was hand balled to me to deliver, and just as the baby's head was on view, a second year resident OB poked her head in the door and asked if she could do the delivery. She said " I only have two and I need to get my numbers up" Since I already had 21 deliveries under my belt, I didn't have an issue and said sure, she could do it if the woman didn't object. At that point, the woman didn't really give a rats arse who caught the baby, as long as someone did. This OB fumbled about, finally caught the baby, then proceeded to put too much traction on the cord to deliver the placenta, and snapped the cord. The registrar was called and a manual removal was done right there and then to prevent a hemorrhage. What struck me about this, was that I am required by law to have 40 supervised normal births by the end of my three year degree. An OB requires 5, and this particular doctor, in her second year as a RESIDENT only had two! Which means she has so far done her 6 years of general medicine, and two years of a four year residency and has rarely seen, participated or facilitated a normal birth.
If you're interested in knowing more about this, I highly recommend a documentary called " The business of being born". It's a fascinating and pretty shocking expose` of modern obstetrics and a must see for anyone who is contemplating a normal birth at some point in their life.

AmentsChick

Medicated-Genius wrote:

LMFAO on yer previous response!

VBAC's, and childbirth in general, get a bad rap mostly out of fear. Modern obstetrics are based around fear, and the perception that somehow nature got it wrong, and that womens bodies are not built to birth their babies. This is utter rubbish of course. If women were not designed for childbirth, the human race would have died out a long time ago. This idea has been created that the gold standard of care is in the hospital, with an obstetrician and that those OB's know a womans body best. This had eaten away at womens faith in their own bodies and ability. Recent research for instance is showing that in the US, less than 5% of births are completely intervention free. Even those that are considered "natural" births are not without their medical interventions. It is interesting to note that around 3% of all births in the US are home births. It demonstrates to me that the most dangerous place for a healthy, normal pregnant woman is in the hospital. Don't get me wrong, modern obstetrics can be wonderful, but like anything, should not be abused.
An OB's is a specialist in difficult and complicated pregnancy and birth, NOT normal birth. The expert in normal birth (80% of women when left the hell alone) is a midwife. She has the clinical skills and experience to recognize when things are not within the range of normal and refer on to the specialist. Sadly, due to power struggles and fear, very few OB's can say the same. They are NOT recognizing a normal pregnancy and referring to the specialist in that area. They are taking on women who have no complications at all, and because they come at childbirth as a problem to be fixed, interfere with a perfectly normal and natural process and make it high tech.
To give an example of how inexperienced an OB is with normal birth. Firstly, very few OB's have even attended normal birth, in most instances where they are not the primary caregiver, they are not called unless complications develop. I was recently doing a rotation in a large tertiary hospital here. I am midway through my second year of a 3 year degree in midwifery and a woman presented in very established labour. She was hand balled to me to deliver, and just as the baby's head was on view, a second year resident OB poked her head in the door and asked if she could do the delivery. She said " I only have two and I need to get my numbers up" Since I already had 21 deliveries under my belt, I didn't have an issue and said sure, she could do it if the woman didn't object. At that point, the woman didn't really give a rats arse who caught the baby, as long as someone did. This OB fumbled about, finally caught the baby, then proceeded to put too much traction on the cord to deliver the placenta, and snapped the cord. The registrar was called and a manual removal was done right there and then to prevent a hemorrhage. What struck me about this, was that I am required by law to have 40 supervised normal births by the end of my three year degree. An OB requires 5, and this particular doctor, in her second year as a RESIDENT only had two! Which means she has so far done her 6 years of general medicine, and two years of a four year residency and has rarely seen, participated or facilitated a normal birth.
If you're interested in knowing more about this, I highly recommend a documentary called " The business of being born". It's a fascinating and pretty shocking expose` of modern obstetrics and a must see for anyone who is contemplating a normal birth at some point in their life.

I've heard of that. Isn't it by Rikki Lake? LOL.

Medicated-Genius

nick1977 wrote:

I think the danger is not natural birth after C-section, but natural birth after 17 kids. That has to take its toll on a woman's body. She has not had time to recover from pregnancy before Jim Bob has her knocked up again. Poor woman.

This is true. Personally I think it's quite mad to have so many kids, but more from the point of view that there are plenty of needy kids in the world who need a good home. From a biological point of view, this is kinda natural. Without any kind of contraception, nature intends for women to be pregnant every couple of years. As soon as a child is weaned from the breast, the woman is fertile again. In that respect we're not much different from any other mammal. In this case though, this couple are having a child every year it seems, which indicates to me that the babies are not entirely breastfed for the first couple of years of their lives. No doubt she has succumbed to the false belief that we must shovel solid food into our babies mouths at four months of age, or perhaps give them artificial milk from some other mammal because her milk isn't good enough. Or it may be she simply doesn't have time to breastfeed with so many other kids to care for. From a biological point of view though, if a woman is breastfeeding, every two to four hours or whenever the bubs wants it, she will not naturally conceive. If you look at more natural cultures and societies, women have babies every three or four years, not every year.

Medicated-Genius

AmentsChick wrote:

I've heard of that. Isn't it by Rikki Lake? LOL.

LOL yea it is, but don't let that put you off. In spite of her previous misdemeanors with crap TV, she's actually a pretty insightful, intelligent and strong woman.

catefrances

AmentsChick wrote:

TC, you make a very excellent point. We do live in a free country and should be able to raise our children how we see fit. You are right they aren't being molested etc...and are probably well adjusted. My concern, however, is when they join the "real" world...talk about culture shock.

and imagine growing up in this so called "real" world and coming to the realisation that everything youve been fed through the media and society your entire life is bullshit. that its as much an indoctrination as so called cults.

manipulatedliving

yeah...i live like in the same city as those people..well I lived in Fayetteville, AR and they lived in Sprindale, which is pretty much the same damn town. Yeah..creepy...saw the clan at Aldi in fayetteville. O.o

_Crazy_Mary_

My only bone with these people (only bone) is that all their kids names start with the same letter. That bugs me. They'll probably name the 18th "January."
As long as they are paying for the pregnancy and hospital bill themselves, feeding them on their own and not taxpayer dollars, it's fine with me. That's great.
I'm more bitter about the single mother in Harlem raising her 3 children by 3 different daddies on my tax dollars!
At least this family is still intact....

AmentsChick

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

My only bone with these people (only bone) is that all their kids names start with the same letter. That bugs me. They'll probably name the 18th "January."
As long as they are paying for the pregnancy and hospital bill themselves, feeding them on their own and not taxpayer dollars, it's fine with me. That's great.
I'm more bitter about the single mother in Harlem raising her 3 children by 3 different daddies on my tax dollars!
At least this family is still intact....

EXCELLENT point!

And, yeah, the "J" thing is a bit annoying. For the record, I believe you can go to Discovery Health and vote on the new baby's name.

http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/baby-name-poll.html

haffajappa

this family bugs me.

and they all use fucking paper plates for everything.

i dont know why they bug me so much but they do.

think about it, 7 or 8 times the amount of kids that the average family has, is 7 or 8 times the amount of diapers they must have used, plus 7 or 8 times the amount of waste they throw out and food they consume etc etc...

and how do the babies not just fall out by now?
and i dont mean to offend any religious people, but their over zealous religious lifestyle bugs me for some reason. they showed a clip of their children being homeschooled... the 17 year olds were learning the same thing as the 5 year olds... its brainwashing is what.

one time they were asked, do you find that you've got any individuality at all? and one of the kids, like the 14 year old responded with, 'of course, like i like pickles but my dad doesnt like pickles'

give me a break!

AmentsChick

doin'the-evolution wrote:

this family bugs me.

and they all use fucking paper plates for everything.

i dont know why they bug me so much but they do.

think about it, 7 or 8 times the amount of kids that the average family has, is 7 or 8 times the amount of diapers they must have used, plus 7 or 8 times the amount of waste they throw out and food they consume etc etc...

and how do the babies not just fall out by now?
and i dont mean to offend any religious people, but their over zealous religious lifestyle bugs me for some reason. they showed a clip of their children being homeschooled... the 17 year olds were learning the same thing as the 5 year olds... its brainwashing is what.

one time they were asked, do you find that you've got any individuality at all? and one of the kids, like the 14 year old responded with, 'of course, like i like pickles but my dad doesnt like pickles'

give me a break!

In a way...isn't all parenting "brainwashing"??

pearljammin41

they disgust me.... and I am from The Natural State............ we aren't all like that.. trust me

AmentsChick

pearljammin41 wrote:

they disgust me.... and I am from The Natural State............ we aren't all like that.. trust me

I just find them fascinating for some strange reason.

HushBull

pearljammin41 wrote:

they disgust me.... and I am from The Natural State............ we aren't all like that.. trust me

Hey!!!!!!!, I ain't no Dermocrat!

pearljammin41

Medicated-Genius wrote:

LMFAO on yer previous response!

VBAC's, and childbirth in general, get a bad rap mostly out of fear. Modern obstetrics are based around fear, and the perception that somehow nature got it wrong, and that womens bodies are not built to birth their babies. This is utter rubbish of course. If women were not designed for childbirth, the human race would have died out a long time ago. This idea has been created that the gold standard of care is in the hospital, with an obstetrician and that those OB's know a womans body best. This had eaten away at womens faith in their own bodies and ability. Recent research for instance is showing that in the US, less than 5% of births are completely intervention free. Even those that are considered "natural" births are not without their medical interventions. It is interesting to note that around 3% of all births in the US are home births. It demonstrates to me that the most dangerous place for a healthy, normal pregnant woman is in the hospital. Don't get me wrong, modern obstetrics can be wonderful, but like anything, should not be abused.
An OB's is a specialist in difficult and complicated pregnancy and birth, NOT normal birth. The expert in normal birth (80% of women when left the hell alone) is a midwife. She has the clinical skills and experience to recognize when things are not within the range of normal and refer on to the specialist. Sadly, due to power struggles and fear, very few OB's can say the same. They are NOT recognizing a normal pregnancy and referring to the specialist in that area. They are taking on women who have no complications at all, and because they come at childbirth as a problem to be fixed, interfere with a perfectly normal and natural process and make it high tech.
To give an example of how inexperienced an OB is with normal birth. Firstly, very few OB's have even attended normal birth, in most instances where they are not the primary caregiver, they are not called unless complications develop. I was recently doing a rotation in a large tertiary hospital here. I am midway through my second year of a 3 year degree in midwifery and a woman presented in very established labour. She was hand balled to me to deliver, and just as the baby's head was on view, a second year resident OB poked her head in the door and asked if she could do the delivery. She said " I only have two and I need to get my numbers up" Since I already had 21 deliveries under my belt, I didn't have an issue and said sure, she could do it if the woman didn't object. At that point, the woman didn't really give a rats arse who caught the baby, as long as someone did. This OB fumbled about, finally caught the baby, then proceeded to put too much traction on the cord to deliver the placenta, and snapped the cord. The registrar was called and a manual removal was done right there and then to prevent a hemorrhage. What struck me about this, was that I am required by law to have 40 supervised normal births by the end of my three year degree. An OB requires 5, and this particular doctor, in her second year as a RESIDENT only had two! Which means she has so far done her 6 years of general medicine, and two years of a four year residency and has rarely seen, participated or facilitated a normal birth.
If you're interested in knowing more about this, I highly recommend a documentary called " The business of being born". It's a fascinating and pretty shocking expose` of modern obstetrics and a must see for anyone who is contemplating a normal birth at some point in their life.

midwifery.. how did i know........... complete bullshit....

pearljammin41

HushBull wrote:

Hey!!!!!!!, I ain't no Dermocrat!

check your PM!

haffajappa

AmentsChick wrote:

In a way...isn't all parenting "brainwashing"??

i'm not talking parenting, i'm talking 'homeschooling' your children...
and i dont mean home schooling your chlidren is brainwashing, but come on, how can your 17 year old AND your 5 year old be reading the same book as an education?

pearljammin41

doin'the-evolution wrote:

i'm not talking parenting, i'm talking 'homeschooling' your children...
and i dont mean home schooling your chlidren is brainwashing, but come on, how can your 17 year old AND your 5 year old be reading the same book as an education?

homeschooling.. the blind leading the blind

_Crazy_Mary_

blackredyellow wrote:

freaks... Seriously, that family is like a cult... they are home-schooled, their dad is their pastor, the girls aren't allowed to wear pants, the older ones haven't left the house, and they work from home.

By themselves, any one of those things aren't bad, but when you combine them all together, that is one backwards family.

pearljammin41 wrote:

they disgust me.... and I am from The Natural State............ we aren't all like that.. trust me

doin'the-evolution wrote:

this family bugs me.

i dont know why they bug me so much but they do.

think about it, 7 or 8 times the amount of kids that the average family has, is 7 or 8 times the amount of diapers they must have used, plus 7 or 8 times the amount of waste they throw out and food they consume etc etc...

and how do the babies not just fall out by now?
and i dont mean to offend any religious people, but their over zealous religious lifestyle bugs me for some reason.
give me a break!

wow! With all the hate and venom going on in this thread, I would think that I was at the Christian Discussion Forum on the topic of gay adoption! :eek:

pearljammin41

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

wow! With all the hate and venom going on in this thread, I would think that I was at the Christian Discussion Forum on the topic of gay adoption! :eek:

never said I hated them. i don't hate them. i hate no one... except maybe W

haffajappa

maybe the price is right should have ended something more along the lines of
help control the human population, have your crazies spayed or neutered...