It's hard to form an opinion on a player by a handful of at-bats(he only had 14 AB vs Detroit).
But if you're willing to look at something he's done for the Yankees, even if it's from 2004, try this game log from the deciding game of the 2004 divisional series:
YANKEES 11TH: Jeter was called out on strikes; Rodriguez doubled
to left; Rodriguez stole third; Lohse threw a wild pitch
[Rodriguez scored]; Sheffield popped to second; Matsui struck
out; 1 R, 1 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Yankees 6, Twins 5.
A-Rod singlehandedly scores the game winning run, while Jeter and Matsui strikes out.
Now here's some career lines, both in the playoffs, and in regular season situations. One of them is the 'choker', the other is Captain Clutch. In a couple instances they have a nearly identical OPS. In the rest, Player A is significantly better than Player B.
Playoffs:
.280/.362/.485/.847
.314/.384/.479/.863
Runners On:
.311/.393/.581/.974
.320/.400/.444/.844
RISP:
.303/.398/.550/.948
.307/.404/.432/.836
RISP w/2 Outs:
.270/.394/.462/.856
.307/.412/.438/.851
Bases Loaded:
.336/.403/.678/1.082
.352/.414/.440/.854
And here are their career lines in the regular season:
.305/.386/.573/.959
.317/.388/.463/.851
You can take a guess who Player A is.
Hint: He's the best player on the 2007 New York Yankees, and he started his career in Seattle at SS.
#1, Ok, looky here ASTRO fan. This is NY, and this is how we do, if you don't win in the playoffs, it doesn't mean jack.
I watched or I saw the highlights of every freaking Yankee games, every season that he's been on the team. Have you? That is where I form my opinion.
#2, You wanna talk history? Ok, let's go back to 2001. And I don't need to look that s--t up.
Who was Mr November for his clutch playing and HR's in 2001?
Who made the famous flip play?
Who was not only the All Star MVP in 2000 but the World Series MVP? Um, yeah, I think it was Derek Jeter.
Also, Who DOVE into the stands to catch a ball against the Red Sox in July 2004, cutting his face in the process? Who puts his heart and soul into everything he does and the Yankees fans love him for it, and he never once whines about "nobody likes me, boo hoo"
#3 Who is the Captain of the team? It's not A-Rod, is it?
#4 In 2004, you're talking about ONE game winning run, and you see fit to quote the stats? Gimme a break. Where did you get that from?
Here's A-Rod's line from 2006, the ALDS vs Detroit:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS SH SF
2006 ALDS NYY DET L 4 14 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 .071 .071 .071 0 0
What did he hit? Um, yeah, .071. 1 for 14.
Real freaking clutch. Puh leeze. Again, we're all about what have you done lately. What has he done lately. Um, nothing. Oh he hit a grand slam in April? Nice, but it doesn't win a championship.
#5, And how many World Series rings does A-Rod have? How many does DJ have? That's the bottom line and that's all there is to it
"...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
#1, Ok, looky here ASTRO fan. This is NY, and this is how we do, if you don't win in the playoffs, it doesn't mean jack, understand this and get out of the NYY thread.
I watched or I saw the highlights of every freaking Yankee games, every season that he's been on the team. Have you? That is where I form my opinion.
#2, You wanna talk history? Ok, let's go back to 2001. And I don't need to look that s--t up.
Who was Mr November for his clutch playing and HR's in 2001?
Who made the famous flip play?
Who was not only the All Star MVP in 2000 but the World Series MVP? Um, yeah, I think it was Derek Jeter.
Also, Who DOVE into the stands to catch a ball against the Red Sox in July 2004, cutting his face in the process? Who puts his heart and soul into everything he does and the Yankees fans love him for it, and he never once whines about "nobody likes me, boo hoo"
#3 Who is the Captain of the team? It's not A-Rod, is it?
#4 In 2004, you're talking about ONE game winning run, and you see fit to quote the stats? Gimme a break. Where did you get that from?
Here's A-Rod's line from 2006, the ALDS vs Detroit:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS SH SF
2006 ALDS NYY DET L 4 14 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 .071 .071 .071 0 0
What did he hit? Um, yeah, .071. 1 for 14.
Real freaking clutch. Puh leeze. Again, we're all about what have you done lately. What has he done lately. Um, nothing. Oh he hit a grand slam in April? Nice, but it doesn't win a championship.
#5, And how many World Series rings does A-Rod have? How many does DJ have? That's the bottom line and that's all there is to it.
Please leave the thread now. Thank you.
1. I may be an Astro fan, but I love the sport of baseball and enjoy discussing it. I don't think I've even talked trash about the Yankees, and infact have supported a Yankee player in this thread.
2. Yes, Jeter has had an impressive career, and has been a very good player. I don't question that, I'm just saying Alex Rodriguez is better.
Jeter can make some great plays that are shown on Sportscenter, but he also makes easy plays look hard.
Comment on Jeter's zone rating:
"Derek Jeter looks a little below average at first, but he’s even worse than that. Jeter has very limited range. Only Bartlett made fewer plays outside the zone, but Jeter played almost 50% more innings than Bartlett."
Jeters career Range Factor: 4.08. Below league average.
Jeters Fielding Rate(from Baseball Prospectus): 93. Below league average
3. It's a nice honor, but doesn't have much to do with the discussion. Jason Varitek is the captain of the Red Sox, but Manny Ramirez is a better player.
4. I posted it to show that he has not done poorly in the postseason during his entire tenure in New York. I thought it was worth bringing up, because some people act as if he has never done anything in October.
His line against the Twins in that series was .421/.476/.737(19 AB)
His line against the Red Sox in the ALCS was .258/.378/.516(31 AB)
Jeter against the Twins: .316/.350/.526(19 AB)
Jeter against the Red Sox: .200/.333/.233(30 AB)
BTW, I got the game log from retrosheet.
Now, looking at his last 14 postseason AB and judging him on that may be how some people do it, but it doesn't mean it's right or makes sense.
I acknowledge that A-Rod has done very poorly in the last couple series'. I'm not saying that he has outperformed Jeter in the last couple playoff series', and I'll say again that he has really struggled in that time. But, I am pointing out that they have very similar career playoff lines. While the numbers say they have been about equal in their overall postseason performance, Jeter has a perception of being gold in the postseason, and A-Rod has the perception of being useless.
I did the Jeter comparison to show that A-Rod isn't as bad as people perceive. It would be unfortunate if people miss out on the joy of watching a great player just because the media and knee-jerk fans bash him everytime he smiles the wrong way.
5. I was talking about individual players. I concede that Derek Jeter has been on better teams.
Great, now Godzilla is the newest Yank to hit the DL.
Though the starters haven't exactly gotten off to a rousing start, its too early to walk the ledge. Torre's post game comments may have been BS to keep the kid's confidence up, but he said Rasner had a blister on his index finger and felt that was why he was having trouble finishing pitches today. Of course he also said the obvious that things can't continue this way. The starters have to give him 6 innings or the bullpen will be worn out.
Guess its time for our hero Pavano to come in and save the day with a CG.
Great, now Godzilla is the newest Yank to hit the DL.
Though the starters haven't exactly gotten off to a rousing start, its too early to walk the ledge. Torre's post game comments may have been BS to keep the kid's confidence up, but he said Rasner had a blister on his index finger and felt that was why he was having trouble finishing pitches today. Of course he also said the obvious that things can't continue this way. The starters have to give him 6 innings or the bullpen will be worn out.
Guess its time for our hero Pavano to come in and save the day with a CG.
yeah, he did have a blister on his index finger. it looked like it was causing him pain with every pitch he threw. torre probably would have taken him out sooner if there was anyone left in the bullpen who wasn't completely worn out.
that's bad news about matsui.... as if this team didn't have enough problems already.
No Johan for the Yanks v. Twins series. At least there is some good news for the Bombers. As bad as the defense has been so far, I have visions of balls getting lost in the sky at the Metrodome. Hope I'm wrong.
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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1. I may be an Astro fan, but I love the sport of baseball and enjoy discussing it.
Now, looking at his last 14 postseason AB and judging him on that may be how some people do it, but it doesn't mean it's right or makes sense.
I did the Jeter comparison to show that A-Rod isn't as bad as people perceive. It would be unfortunate if people miss out on the joy of watching a great player just because the media and knee-jerk fans bash him everytime he smiles the wrong way.
quote]
I don't understand how you have that much time or inclination to post baseball stats like that! Gosh.
I love the sport as a whole as well
You don't live in NY and follow the Yankees daily 'soap opera.' For me, I don't just look at #'s, I know A-Rod was an MVP and all his batting avg, HR's, etc. What did he win, 3 MVP's? I forget..but when Derek was in the running last year, he said something to the effect of "yeah, that will be great if Derek wins his FIRST (MVP)" ie-yeah that's nice but I have more of those awards than he does...
He's like a little boy always looking for approval, I think it's gross...
He has self esteem issues and he just talks out of his ass, like Derek is his hero big brother and he's the little kid brother or something.
It's ingratiating..
like he said that whether or not he renews his contract essentially depends on how the fans react to him this season..
I just really don't care for him, he comes off as such a whiner crybaby. Derek just goes about his business, he's all professional, all business 24/7.
And I never thought it was necessary to acquire A-Rod in the 1st place. He is a solid player, sure, but we had a short stop and we needed pitching more than we needed a 3rd baseman.
And again, I think it makes sense to judge his last postseason AB's b/c that's how we look at things--we didn't win last year, and he didn't really do anything to contribute, and we remember post season heroics. He hasn't done anything super spectacular or heroic in NY in the post season yet.
"...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
[quote=Allie02
Who DOVE into the stands to catch a ball against the Red Sox in July 2004, cutting his face in the process?
#3 Who is the Captain of the team? It's not A-Rod, is it?
People forget A-Rod made a great play that game also throwing out the runner at home. As for captain, A-Rod wasn't here from the beginning so that has nothing to do with him. it's no secret A-Rod's been struggling lately in the playoffs. But so have other yankees. And it's not like he's never been good in the playoffs.
Ramon Ortiz is kicking Yankee ass. If only the Twins would stop hitting like a 5th grade girls softball team.
scoreboard still shows 1-1..........
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
I have been disapointed with that acquisition for too long. Time to find a better set up option. i have nightmares of him being in the game with the playoffs on the line :(
Charlotte 00 Charlotte 03 Asheville 04 Atlanta 12 Greenville 16, Columbia 16 Seattle 18 Nashville 22
no matter what kyle farnsworth does on the field, its a sure bet that after the game in the clubhouse, he'll lose a game of checkers to a sack of potatoes.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Pavano hurting? I cant help but laugh. If thinks keep going this way with injuries we may see Hughes whether he is ready or not. Also wouldnt shock me to see them look into bringing Lieber back if things get worse. Phills are looking to move him.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Comments
#1, Ok, looky here ASTRO fan. This is NY, and this is how we do, if you don't win in the playoffs, it doesn't mean jack.
I watched or I saw the highlights of every freaking Yankee games, every season that he's been on the team. Have you? That is where I form my opinion.
#2, You wanna talk history? Ok, let's go back to 2001. And I don't need to look that s--t up.
Who was Mr November for his clutch playing and HR's in 2001?
Who made the famous flip play?
Who was not only the All Star MVP in 2000 but the World Series MVP? Um, yeah, I think it was Derek Jeter.
Also, Who DOVE into the stands to catch a ball against the Red Sox in July 2004, cutting his face in the process? Who puts his heart and soul into everything he does and the Yankees fans love him for it, and he never once whines about "nobody likes me, boo hoo"
#3 Who is the Captain of the team? It's not A-Rod, is it?
#4 In 2004, you're talking about ONE game winning run, and you see fit to quote the stats? Gimme a break. Where did you get that from?
Here's A-Rod's line from 2006, the ALDS vs Detroit:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS SH SF
2006 ALDS NYY DET L 4 14 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 .071 .071 .071 0 0
What did he hit? Um, yeah, .071. 1 for 14.
Real freaking clutch. Puh leeze. Again, we're all about what have you done lately. What has he done lately. Um, nothing. Oh he hit a grand slam in April? Nice, but it doesn't win a championship.
#5, And how many World Series rings does A-Rod have? How many does DJ have? That's the bottom line and that's all there is to it
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
1. I may be an Astro fan, but I love the sport of baseball and enjoy discussing it. I don't think I've even talked trash about the Yankees, and infact have supported a Yankee player in this thread.
2. Yes, Jeter has had an impressive career, and has been a very good player. I don't question that, I'm just saying Alex Rodriguez is better.
Jeter can make some great plays that are shown on Sportscenter, but he also makes easy plays look hard.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/what-is-zone-rating/
Comment on Jeter's zone rating:
"Derek Jeter looks a little below average at first, but he’s even worse than that. Jeter has very limited range. Only Bartlett made fewer plays outside the zone, but Jeter played almost 50% more innings than Bartlett."
Jeters career Range Factor: 4.08. Below league average.
Jeters Fielding Rate(from Baseball Prospectus): 93. Below league average
3. It's a nice honor, but doesn't have much to do with the discussion. Jason Varitek is the captain of the Red Sox, but Manny Ramirez is a better player.
4. I posted it to show that he has not done poorly in the postseason during his entire tenure in New York. I thought it was worth bringing up, because some people act as if he has never done anything in October.
His line against the Twins in that series was .421/.476/.737(19 AB)
His line against the Red Sox in the ALCS was .258/.378/.516(31 AB)
Jeter against the Twins: .316/.350/.526(19 AB)
Jeter against the Red Sox: .200/.333/.233(30 AB)
BTW, I got the game log from retrosheet.
Now, looking at his last 14 postseason AB and judging him on that may be how some people do it, but it doesn't mean it's right or makes sense.
I acknowledge that A-Rod has done very poorly in the last couple series'. I'm not saying that he has outperformed Jeter in the last couple playoff series', and I'll say again that he has really struggled in that time. But, I am pointing out that they have very similar career playoff lines. While the numbers say they have been about equal in their overall postseason performance, Jeter has a perception of being gold in the postseason, and A-Rod has the perception of being useless.
I did the Jeter comparison to show that A-Rod isn't as bad as people perceive. It would be unfortunate if people miss out on the joy of watching a great player just because the media and knee-jerk fans bash him everytime he smiles the wrong way.
5. I was talking about individual players. I concede that Derek Jeter has been on better teams.
Though the starters haven't exactly gotten off to a rousing start, its too early to walk the ledge. Torre's post game comments may have been BS to keep the kid's confidence up, but he said Rasner had a blister on his index finger and felt that was why he was having trouble finishing pitches today. Of course he also said the obvious that things can't continue this way. The starters have to give him 6 innings or the bullpen will be worn out.
Guess its time for our hero Pavano to come in and save the day with a CG.
yeah, he did have a blister on his index finger. it looked like it was causing him pain with every pitch he threw. torre probably would have taken him out sooner if there was anyone left in the bullpen who wasn't completely worn out.
that's bad news about matsui.... as if this team didn't have enough problems already.
they called up kevin thompson to replace him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOcV9zccABg
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
That's what he's doing in his retirement? Good grief, somebody call Cashman and tell him to get Bernie suited up!
Fun clip though, thanks. I think they had it on the news on Channel 4 too...
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
damn... i would have gotten tickets if i had known. bernie is a sick guitarist. he definitely has a career in music ahead of him.
solid win tonight. pavano was sharp. the defense made some great plays. they're hitting well. it's amazing what a change in weather can do.
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Who DOVE into the stands to catch a ball against the Red Sox in July 2004, cutting his face in the process?
#3 Who is the Captain of the team? It's not A-Rod, is it?
People forget A-Rod made a great play that game also throwing out the runner at home. As for captain, A-Rod wasn't here from the beginning so that has nothing to do with him. it's no secret A-Rod's been struggling lately in the playoffs. But so have other yankees. And it's not like he's never been good in the playoffs.
scoreboard still shows 1-1..........
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
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Donate Organs and Save a Life
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
rediculous statement.
i hate farnsworth.
~Michael Bolton
the twins fans on here are generally quite rediculous, moe.
they all are, don't you think? even those horrible white sox fans
~Michael Bolton
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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Hello, Yankee fans.
I have been disapointed with that acquisition for too long. Time to find a better set up option. i have nightmares of him being in the game with the playoffs on the line :(
Charlotte 03
Asheville 04
Atlanta 12
Greenville 16, Columbia 16
Seattle 18
Nashville 22
What's ridiculous is that none of you can spell "ridiculous".
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
no matter what kyle farnsworth does on the field, its a sure bet that after the game in the clubhouse, he'll lose a game of checkers to a sack of potatoes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AovXgZGIhpbegoGfxmHTwgQi0bYF?slug=ap-yankees-injuredpitchers&prov=ap&type=lgns
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
EGADS. We are in trouble. Thanks for the scoop, X.
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
and on knees