2007 Yankees

NCBRI

Clemens suspended 5 games and Torre 1 game.

So much for that Yankee bias. :rolleyes:

BetterManningNYG

NCBRI wrote:

Clemens suspended 5 games and Torre 1 game.

So much for that Yankee bias. :rolleyes:

and for some reason, the suspension isn't retroactive to his last start (so they can't use the off day to their advantage). i thought that's how it worked with pitchers. i guess i was wrong.

it sucks that this had to happen. after josh towers hit a-rod, it was basically a foregone conclusion that clemens would have to miss his next start. it doesn't make any sense that josh towers should be able to dictate these types of things.

it's a pretty harsh penalty considering that they also lost a-rod for at least one game as a result of the incident. apparently, retaliation is a more serious offense than causing injury.

the league office is such a fucking joke.

JSBE

BetterManningNYG wrote:

and for some reason, the suspension isn't retroactive to his last start (so they can't use the off day to their advantage). i thought that's how it worked with pitchers. i guess i was wrong.

it sucks that this had to happen. after josh towers hit a-rod, it was basically a foregone conclusion that clemens would have to miss his next start. it doesn't make any sense that josh towers should be able to dictate these types of things.

it's a pretty harsh penalty considering that they also lost a-rod for at least one game as a result of the incident. apparently, retaliation is a more serious offense than causing injury.

the league office is such a fucking joke.

i'm pretty certain that someone within the organization needs to let mlb know that roger is going to accept the suspension before it officially starts. he can put in an appeal to delay it - typically pitcher's suspensions of 5 games aren't reduced because 5 games is the whole point, so they 'miss' a start in the rotation. i'm not sure if torre can appeal his - i think his is automatically the next game played (but i am not 100% sure on this).

once both benches are warned if the umpire believes either pitcher intentionally throws at a batter they're tossed and then the league will review. once roger got a suspension, torre gets an automatic 1 game suspension.

i agree that the league office and the whole warning, ejection, retaliation thing is somewhat of a joke. the warnings get thrown out there so fast. i'm actually surprised the umps didn't warn both benches before the 2nd game of the series seeing as arod was thrown at in the 1st game.

BetterManningNYG

JSBE wrote:

i'm pretty certain that someone within the organization needs to let mlb know that roger is going to accept the suspension before it officially starts. he can put in an appeal to delay it - typically pitcher's suspensions of 5 games aren't reduced because 5 games is the whole point, so they 'miss' a start in the rotation. i'm not sure if torre can appeal his - i think his is automatically the next game played (but i am not 100% sure on this).

once both benches are warned if the umpire believes either pitcher intentionally throws at a batter they're tossed and then the league will review. once roger got a suspension, torre gets an automatic 1 game suspension.

i agree that the league office and the whole warning, ejection, retaliation thing is somewhat of a joke. the warnings get thrown out there so fast. i'm actually surprised the umps didn't warn both benches before the 2nd game of the series seeing as arod was thrown at in the 1st game.

yeah, i think you're right that torre's suspension is automatic. i was actually surprised that the league didn't make him serve it last night.

the only reason roger might appeal would be if he intends to drop it at a time when the yankees specifically are able to line up a starter to take his place.

honestly, it would just make more sense for the umpires to only issue warnings after both teams have gotten "even." let them police themselves a little before getting involved.

MLB is worried about injuries and bad PR, i guess. i don't blame them, but that doesn't change the fact that the retaliation is almost always more justified than the initial offense.

Allie

NCBRI wrote:

Clemens suspended 5 games and Torre 1 game.

So much for that Yankee bias. :rolleyes:

but the guy that busted up A-Rod's knee isn't suspended?! They started it! Gosh darnit, that's wild.

That's shocking to me.

Didn't they use to 'police themselves' back in the day? Is this a new thing with the suspensions and whatnot?

JSBE

BetterManningNYG wrote:

yeah, i think you're right that torre's suspension is automatic. i was actually surprised that the league didn't make him serve it last night.

the only reason roger might appeal would be if he intends to drop it at a time when the yankees specifically are able to line up a starter to take his place.

honestly, it would just make more sense for the umpires to only issue warnings after both teams have gotten "even." let them police themselves a little before getting involved.

MLB is worried about injuries and bad PR, i guess. i don't blame them, but that doesn't change the fact that the retaliation is almost always more justified than the initial offense.

i thought the suspension was handed out today? that's why torre wouldn't have served it last night.

i'm 99.9% certain roger will appeal so they can work something out where he will pitch on regular rest and not 'miss' a turn. i could have sworn a couple years ago the 'default' pitcher suspension was 6 games just for that reason.

i totally agree with you on the getting even thing because it pisses me off when it happens to the red sox just as much as i'm sure it pisses you off that it just happened to the yanks.

i think that mlb just doesn't want it to get out of hand and have a serious injury (ie - bean ball) or a wild, bench clearing brawl. where it does suck that one team can "get away" with an obvious hbp (the blue jays in this case) and the team that has their pitcher stick up for the teammate that was hit (the yanks in this case) gets the suspension.

NCBRI

JSBE wrote:

i'm 99.9% certain roger will appeal so they can work something out where he will pitch on regular rest and not 'miss' a turn. i could have sworn a couple years ago the 'default' pitcher suspension was 6 games just for that reason.

That is kinda what I was expecting to happen, but apparently Clemens/Yankees decided not to appeal. So if he will serve today through Tuesday then he will probably pitch Wednesday instead of Monday. They will have to find someone to start either Monday or Tuesday (Wang will start one of those days). Maybe Karstens gets the start.

Big series this weekend in Cleveland. The kid starts tonight.



1 game back in The Wild Card Race

xavier mcdaniel

and tonight's lineup:

Damon DH
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui LF
Cano 2B
Betemit 1B
Molina C
Cabrera CF
Hughes RHP

JSBE

double post. sorry

JSBE

padres put in a claim for igawa. if a trade can be worked out, i can't imagine them wanting to take on too much of his salary. the yanks will be on the hook for a lot of that $26mil.

big series starting this weekend. should be interesting because the indians have been doing very well lately.

xavier mcdaniel

JSBE wrote:

padres put in a claim for igawa. if a trade can be worked out, i can't imagine them wanting to take on too much of his salary. the yanks will be on the hook for a lot of that $26mil.

big series starting this weekend. should be interesting because the indians have been doing very well lately.

that's awesome. i saw david wells was cut by the padres. maybe a igawa for wells trade..

BetterManningNYG

JSBE wrote:

i thought the suspension was handed out today? that's why torre wouldn't have served it last night.

yeah, it was (yesterday now). but i was under the impression that in the case of a hit batsman, the manager's suspension becomes automatic as soon as he is ejected. i didn't realize that it actually depends on the pitcher's punishment. i'm still not entirely sure how it works, to tell you the truth.

there are just too many dumb rules to keep track of.

JSBE wrote:

i'm 99.9% certain roger will appeal so they can work something out where he will pitch on regular rest and not 'miss' a turn. i could have sworn a couple years ago the 'default' pitcher suspension was 6 games just for that reason.

i would have thought so, too. but he chose to serve it immediately, as NCBRI mentioned.

i'm really hoping that this won't translate into another guest appearance by kei igawa. :(

but at the same time, i don't think they'll get rid of him quite yet unless they can get some of that $26 million back. he only makes $4 million a year, so it's not really an urgent issue.

BetterManningNYG

xavier mcdaniel wrote:

that's awesome. i saw david wells was cut by the padres. maybe a igawa for wells trade..

i don't want david wells anywhere near this team.

xavier mcdaniel

BetterManningNYG wrote:

i don't want david wells anywhere near this team.

me neither, i just felt like making an absurd trade proposal since i never call wfan...

xavier mcdaniel

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2969449

this offers more on kei igawa to the padres..

Taft

Tonight was a great night, Yanks beat Cleveland, Sox lose, Mariners lose, Tigers lose.

The Sox loss was the ultimate gut punch. Gagne is a joke, I wonder if Sox fans will FINALLY drop their fanboy love for Theo and call him out for picking up that guy....

JSBE

Taft wrote:

Tonight was a great night, Yanks beat Cleveland, Sox lose, Mariners lose, Tigers lose.

The Sox loss was the ultimate gut punch. Gagne is a joke, I wonder if Sox fans will FINALLY drop their fanboy love for Theo and call him out for picking up that guy....

that won't happen. are you honestly saying, 100% that you as a yankee fan would in no way, shape or form have wanted cashman to get gagne if he could have? that's what i thought. before last night gagne had given up 10 earned runs ALL SEASON.

gagne really didn't have it, but i can't believe there is no mention seemingly anywhere of drew's blunder by overrunning the ball i beleve huff hit. had drew not done that, that's only a single and maybe all the runs don't score.

anyways, was flipping back and forth between the sox/o's and yanks/tribe and hughes looked damn good. and i learned that joba's real name was justin until he changed it legally.

BetterManningNYG

JSBE wrote:

are you honestly saying, 100% that you as a yankee fan would in no way, shape or form have wanted cashman to get gagne if he could have?

i would take gagne. absolutely. 100%. no questions asked.

just not for what texas wanted in return (melky cabrera or 2006 first-round pick ian kennedy).

i was a little surprised that the red sox went after him, given the strength of their bullpen. but they didn't really give up anybody essential in that deal. gabbard and murphy are pretty good prospects, but it's likely that neither one of them would have been a long-term solution for the red sox.

apparently steve phillips was ripping brian cashman for passing on gagne. he said something to the effect of: there are a ton of melky cabreras out there and he wouldn't be any better than a fourth outfielder on a playoff team.

i guess this is why brian cashman is a major league GM and steve phillips never will be again (sometimes we need these subtle reminders). i don't think i really have to explain why trading melky cabrera wouldn't be a productive move for the yankees.

i like what cashman has been doing. hughes and joba are basically like deadline acquisitions for the yankees, and good ones at that. i don't think mark teixeira would have been as vital to their stretch run as either of these guys.

the only move i really have to question is cutting miguel cairo. now they have a ton of unnecessary offense off the bench (giambi, betemit, duncan), but no speed or defense whatsoever. cairo was 8 for 9 in stolen bases, and he was really their only pinch runner. they have plenty of pinch hitters, but when will they ever need one with their lineup?

i don't know why so many yankee fans dislike cairo. he basically does whatever is asked of him. for a guy who's strictly a backup infielder, he's about as good as it gets. hopefully he won't end up on a playoff team.

the latest i've heard on the igawa trade: buster olney reported that cla meredith was being discussed. that would be a great move, but i can't imagine that the padres are actually dumb enough to trade meredith for igawa.

then again, it would basically be like paying $26 million for cla meredith. that's a slightly higher price than doug mirabelli. :rolleyes:

whatever. we'll take him. get it done, cashman!

JSBE

i was surprised that that is all it took to get gagne too. the best thing kason gabbard ever did was be good for the couple starts he had before the trading deadline. david murphy was an expendable OF prospect - really, with manny, coco, drew, ellsbury, moss, etc where is he going to play in the next 2-3 seasons? supposedly the key was the low level prospect they gave up, but anyone in low A ball is a toss-up where they are usually 4-5 years away from the majors at best.

i know hughes has only had a few starts, but he looks like the real deal for now. once there is more tape on him and other teams can do some research, that's where we will see what he is made of.

i haven't actually seen joba pitch live yet, just catch bits and pieces on highlight. as much as i like to keep track of the yanks, i still have to watch my sox. if i was a yanks fan i would just HOPE that torre doesn't fall in love with him and pitch him almost every game like he did with proctor.

i wouldn't have traded melky in a deal for gagne either. he's getting better, he's young and he's cheap. i mean, he replaced damon in CF (oh yeah, only 08 and 09 left on that deal).

dropping cairo made no sense. i already posted about that. right now you have glorified DHs on the bench that are all hit, very little field.

as 'little' as igawa's salary is ($4/yr?) i cannot see (or hope) the padres are dumb enough to give up meredith for him. (and i - along with a lot of other sox fans - will agree the mirabelli trade was horrible; it was a knee-jerk reaction trade because bard couldn't catch wakefield).

BetterManningNYG

JSBE wrote:

supposedly the key was the low level prospect they gave up, but anyone in low A ball is a toss-up where they are usually 4-5 years away from the majors at best.

i've heard comparisons to barry bonds and alfonso soriano. but right now he's just a .200 hitter on a low-level minor league team. so that's basically a coin flip right there.

hughes will go through an adjustment period, for sure. he's only 21 and is expected to further develop his slider and changeup. he also hasn't quite found his good fastball since returning from the DL. he was missing a lot of spots last night but got away with it because the hitters hadn't seen him before.

as for joba, we're all worried about torre abusing him. terrified, in fact.

loretta for mirabelli was a steal. it just turned out that mirabelli was more valuable to the red sox than he would have been to anyone else.

i remember i was waiting in line for irving plaza tickets when i found out they got him back. i was pissed.... until i found out who they gave up for him. that was just a weird move.