are you saying you would run up to a guy who just stabbed another man to death and take him on? I assume you have no training to do this....correct?
Ha! Run up to a man knowing that the other guy was dead? No, I see no use in that.
No. I have no training and I never said that I would have "run up to him." I'm not sure where those conclusions are coming from. I'm just saying that there are people out there who will risk some harm to protect others. Look at the usher who got killed in the Tennessee church. When he realized that the shooter had pulled a shotgun out of the guitar case he did run up to him. He died, but no telling how many people he saved -some may have been his family. Then four other guys tackled the shooter before he got off more shots. So don't tell me that everyone runs away from danger. It is not true.
I have no idea what I would have done. Certainly, the circumstances of being on a bus with little room to maneuver or escape is an issue. Also, the apparent vehemence and size of the guy. All I know if it was my loved one being stabbed and I thought there was a chance he/she could be saved I would have done something! If it was me being stabbed I would have hoped that somebody would have tried something!
Would throwing luggage work? Maybe, maybe not. But you guys that support running away keep pointing out that you dont' have time to think. So why do you believe a defender would have time "to think" out an organized plan. A defender would have probably grabbed the first thing available to attack the attacker. Maybe he/she had time to discuss and think out a plan it would be different.
Just don't tell me that everyone would have ran. I'm not convinced of that. And I definitely am not convinced that I would have tried anything. All I know is that if I had done nothing I would be feeling really guilty.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
Ha! Run up to a man knowing that the other guy was dead? No, I see no use in that.
No. I have no training and I never said that I would have "run up to him." I'm not sure where those conclusions are coming from. I'm just saying that there are people out there who will risk some harm to protect others. Look at the usher who got killed in the Tennessee church. When he realized that the shooter had pulled a shotgun out of the guitar case he did run up to him. He died, but no telling how many people he saved -some may have been his family. Then four other guys tackled the shooter before he got off more shots. So don't tell me that everyone runs away from danger. It is not true.
I have no idea what I would have done. Certainly, the circumstances of being on a bus with little room to maneuver or escape is an issue. Also, the apparent vehemence and size of the guy. All I know if it was my loved one being stabbed and I thought there was a chance he/she could be saved I would have done something! If it was me being stabbed I would have hoped that somebody would have tried something!
Would throwing luggage work? Maybe, maybe not. But you guys that support running away keep pointing out that you dont' have time to think. So why do you believe a defender would have time "to think" out an organized plan. A defender would have probably grabbed the first thing available to attack the attacker. Maybe he/she had time to discuss and think out a plan it would be different.
Just don't tell me that everyone would have ran. I'm not convinced of that. And I definitely am not convinced that I would have tried anything. All I know is that if I had done nothing I would be feeling really guilty.
I understand your point.
I think these type of situations are always different. I'm sure if anyone had an opportunity to save the victim they would.
I don't think anyone is saying that they would run in EVERY scenerio. I'm certain people are saying that this was a special cricumstance where helping would be futile and possibly deadly.
Personally, I train Krav Maga every day with plastic guns and knives . It would be a last resort for me to try to take on a guy with a weapon because I know (based on training) that I fail 40-50% of the time. I would do what I could, but trying to be a hero could get you or others killed.
In this case, a bus is not the best location to try some hand to hand combat.
However, I do see your point about family or friends. You would not let them go down without a fight.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Why didn't the passengers do something? They could've easily outnumbered this psycho.
The way it happened was extremely quick. By the time anyone else on the bus realized what was happening, the poor victim was undoubtedly already stabbed several times. And as it sunk in and people realized the guy was stabbing him, you can add another 5-10 stabs.
Unfortunately, there really wan't anything anyone could have done to save the guy. There's no way he was going to survive so many stabs from such a large hunting knife. A knife of that stature immediately devestates and destroys every artery, organ and vessel it cuts through. Sadly he suffered massive tissue damage, organ and vascular failure within just a matter of 10-20 seconds.
Even if one of the passengers had a firearm and was good enough shot to take the lunatic down, without injuring/killing innocent bystanders; it's clear there's no way the victim would have been saved.
The other people on the bus and driver did the right thing. The only thing they could have possibly done. Get everyone else off/out of the bus safely and trap the sick lunatic on the bus.
If someone had a firearm and after everyone else was off the bus, they could have shot the fucker down before he beheaded the poor victim and commited more attrocities to his physical body. That's about the only other thing that could have been done, in this situation.
When a person carries out an act like this, it is not like a normal, thought-out crime of some sort... the person doing such a thing is mentally broken well beyond the point of rationalizing the action or making comparisons to a "normal" human beings actions. It is a psychosis... not a well formed decision process.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I just think it's interesting how the "Asian" guys/gals who have snapped recently are polite,quiet, hard working members of society. Without warning or signs they just snap.
For example:
Virginia Tech Shooting
Bus Beheading
The guy who killed all those hunters
oh wow, 3 fucking incidents and you're placing race into it...you need to get your fucking brains checked and look at all the white sickos out there that's done similar shit. Yet nothing racial will come out of it.
That kind of think pisses me off. Fucking white people who thinks they know everything. :mad:
woah tiger... chill... or should i say crouching tiger
its no different than saying whats with all the white, toothless, trailer trash meth addicts?? the more adjectives you add the MORE you narrow down the group youre targeting... you seem to think it makes it more broad and general... im sure if it had been about a white person and he had something regarding his race you wouldnt have had a problem...
settle down with the unnecessary PC and mean words
oh wow, 3 fucking incidents and you're placing race into it...you need to get your fucking brains checked and look at all the white sickos out there that's done similar shit. Yet nothing racial will come out of it.
That kind of think pisses me off. Fucking white people who thinks they know everything. :mad:
First, thank you for playing your race card.
Second, I'm not saying that all Asians are psycho killers. I'm simply pointing to the fact that the recent events involving Asian killers were very different.
They didn't give any warning or clues before hand. They lived quiet lives and shocked their peers when they carried out their murderous acts.
This is in contrast to the "White" killers who made threats and "To kill" lists. A lot of the "white" killers shocked nobody because they foreshadowed their events.
Yeah....I'm saying that Asian culture in general is more reserved and respectful. It isn't likely that a young man in trouble is going to voice his anger toward others. Cultural....
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
I love the double standards here. People can rip white people all day and the minute I make an observation about another race I become evil white guy...
You don't even know I'm white.... I could be Asian.
You assumed and then played your PC police race card
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Second, I'm not saying that all Asians are psycho killers. I'm simply pointing to the fact that the recent events involving Asian killers were very different.
They didn't give any warning or clues before hand. They lived quiet lives and shocked their peers when they carried out their murderous acts.
This is in contrast to the "White" killers who made threats and "To kill" lists. A lot of the "white" killers shocked nobody because they foreshadowed their events.
Yeah....I'm saying that Asian culture in general is more reserved and respectful. It isn't likely that a young man in trouble is going to voice his anger toward others. Cultural....
ted bundy was actually a very pleasant and likeable (white) person as are many (white) killers i can think of so im not sure i agree with your argument that theyre radically different... i think the premeditated ones just get more news coverage since theres so much more to cover and share... still i dont think its negative that you added in "Asian" just to specify which killers you were talking about... races are used to describe just like lots of other words... i can see what youre saying though about a general greater appreciation for life and harmony from the Asian community that makes these killers somehow more out of the ordinary (as an Asian i would take it as a compliment that i am not amongst a race known for violence)
Second, I'm not saying that all Asians are psycho killers. I'm simply pointing to the fact that the recent events involving Asian killers were very different.
They didn't give any warning or clues before hand. They lived quiet lives and shocked their peers when they carried out their murderous acts.
This is in contrast to the "White" killers who made threats and "To kill" lists. A lot of the "white" killers shocked nobody because they foreshadowed their events.
Yeah....I'm saying that Asian culture in general is more reserved and respectful. It isn't likely that a young man in trouble is going to voice his anger toward others. Cultural....
You’re assumptions are wrong. Don’t assume anything you see on TV. What makes you think Asians are reserved and respectful? They’re willing and able to torture their own people, and just because they bow and host Western visitors politely doesn’t make them ruthless behind close doors. Americans have done to war with many Asian countries and by now, Americans should realize what they’re capable of. What the TV and Hollywood media portrait Asians as passive and peaceful, it’s pretty much bullshit and stereotypical.
And now that more and more are coming like maniacs, it’s overwhelming surprising.
I’m not surprise at all with the recent events.
Oh and the race card? Cry me a fucking river! it's a recent trend too, racism has been going on for decades and we've dealt with it. and now the roles have turned and people are crying over reverse-racism. Deal with it!
oh wow, 3 fucking incidents and you're placing race into it...you need to get your fucking brains checked and look at all the white sickos out there that's done similar shit. Yet nothing racial will come out of it.
That kind of think pisses me off. Fucking white people who thinks they know everything. :mad:
Wow, the guy was obviously making a joke and trying to add a little levity to this terrible incident.
Way to go racist, LongRd. Didn't take much for those true colors to surface.
Wow, the guy was obviously making a joke and trying to add a little levity to this terrible incident.
Way to go racist, LongRd. Didn't take much for those true colors to surface.
So it's OK for him to make a joke? Imagine we're talking like this around the crime scene. Do you make a joke like that? with people going through different emotions.
You’re assumptions are wrong. Don’t assume anything you see on TV. What makes you think Asians are reserved and respectful? They’re willing and able to torture their own people, and just because they bow and host Western visitors politely doesn’t make them ruthless behind close doors. Americans have done to war with many Asian countries and by now, Americans should realize what they’re capable of. What the TV and Hollywood media portrait Asians as passive and peaceful, it’s pretty much bullshit and stereotypical.
And now that more and more are coming like maniacs, it’s overwhelming surprising.
I’m not surprise at all with the recent events.
Oh and the race card? Cry me a fucking river! it's a recent trend too, racism has been going on for decades and we've dealt with it. and now the roles have turned and people are crying over reverse-racism. Deal with it!
The columbine kids had websites, "to kill" lists and expresssed their hate for fellow students before their rampage.
The Asian killers led respectful introverted lives and just snapped.
I'm saying that this difference is a result of the repect that Asian culture has as a whole. The killers followed their cultural lead by not expressing their anger toward others. One day they just snapped....
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
So it's OK for him to make a joke? Imagine we're talking like this around the crime scene. Do you make a joke like that? with people going through different emotions.
You may want to read the entire thread over again.
The context of my comments had little to do with the bus situation.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
So it's OK for him to make a joke? Imagine we're talking like this around the crime scene. Do you make a joke like that? with people going through different emotions.
i dont think his jokes explicity connected to any details from the crime... im just as guilty for joking around there... this subject matter is so heavy that sometimes it helps to have a few stupid playful post... im sure neither he nor i meant any disrespect to anyone
So it's OK for him to make a joke? Imagine we're talking like this around the crime scene. Do you make a joke like that? with people going through different emotions.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
The guy made a joke.
We're on the internet, almost a week since it happened. How the fuck is this anything like being at the crime scene?
You're way over the top and being completely overly-sensititive and Super Hyper Overly PC, to his harmless joke. Get a grip.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Wow, the guy was obviously making a joke and trying to add a little levity to this terrible incident.
Way to go racist, LongRd. Didn't take much for those true colors to surface.
I find it odd that I’m “the racist” here since my comment was basically a generalization of white people thinking they know it all. http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5731324&postcount=96 which seem to hit a nerve with you to call me a racist.
Yet stigfig13 and sgoassard3’s generalizing Asians seem to fly over your head easily.
Come on, let’s be fair, my comment and their comments were all false typical stereotypical statements. Yet, I’m the racist here. :rolleyes:
I guess, the old saying is true. If it ain’t white, it ain’t right.
I find it odd that I’m “the racist” here since my comment was basically a generalization of white people thinking they know it all. http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5731324&postcount=96 which seem to hit a nerve with you to call me a racist.
Yet stigfig13 and sgoassard3’s generalizing Asians seem to fly over your head easily.
Come on, let’s be fair, my comment and their comments were all false typical stereotypical statements. Yet, I’m the racist here. :rolleyes:
I guess, the old saying is true. If it ain’t white, it ain’t right.
ok bud... i didnt call you the racist and i dont appreciate being called one from you... i was just standing up for stigfig13 since you seemed more heated than necessary towards him... no one said anything here even close to racism IMO... yourself included... so lets all just quit looking for a fight and play nice... besides its just taking away from the main point of the thread which is far more tragic and interesting than any "race war"
ok bud... i didnt call you the racist and i dont appreciate being called one from you... i was just standing up for stigfig13 since you seemed more heated than necessary towards him... no one said anything here even close to racism IMO... yourself included... so lets all just quit looking for a fight and play nice... besides its just taking away from the main point of the thread which is far more tragic and interesting than any "race war"
I just found out about this story last night on a Howard Stern forum, now I'm seeing it for the first time here. It freaks me out every time I think about it. How can someone do that? The world really can be a fucked up place sometimes.
West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
oh I did call one of you a prick...I apologize for that.
dont think it was me so were cool
i try not to sway how people think/feel if it doesnt hurt anyone... just take it with a grain of salt... thats the only way to survive message boards... if anything i said offended you than i apologize, but i think it was all said in jest
i try not to sway how people think/feel if it doesnt hurt anyone... just take it with a grain of salt... thats the only way to survive message boards... if anything i said offended you than i apologize, but i think it was all said in jest
No need to apologized, nothing you or sgossard said was racially offensive. I don't know what it is about "generalization" that triggers me to get into a debate. Sorry for derailing a thread of such awful tragedy.
I just found out about this story last night on a Howard Stern forum, now I'm seeing it for the first time here. It freaks me out every time I think about it. How can someone do that? The world really can be a fucked up place sometimes.
Comments
Ha! Run up to a man knowing that the other guy was dead? No, I see no use in that.
No. I have no training and I never said that I would have "run up to him." I'm not sure where those conclusions are coming from. I'm just saying that there are people out there who will risk some harm to protect others. Look at the usher who got killed in the Tennessee church. When he realized that the shooter had pulled a shotgun out of the guitar case he did run up to him. He died, but no telling how many people he saved -some may have been his family. Then four other guys tackled the shooter before he got off more shots. So don't tell me that everyone runs away from danger. It is not true.
I have no idea what I would have done. Certainly, the circumstances of being on a bus with little room to maneuver or escape is an issue. Also, the apparent vehemence and size of the guy. All I know if it was my loved one being stabbed and I thought there was a chance he/she could be saved I would have done something! If it was me being stabbed I would have hoped that somebody would have tried something!
Would throwing luggage work? Maybe, maybe not. But you guys that support running away keep pointing out that you dont' have time to think. So why do you believe a defender would have time "to think" out an organized plan. A defender would have probably grabbed the first thing available to attack the attacker. Maybe he/she had time to discuss and think out a plan it would be different.
Just don't tell me that everyone would have ran. I'm not convinced of that. And I definitely am not convinced that I would have tried anything. All I know is that if I had done nothing I would be feeling really guilty.
I understand your point.
I think these type of situations are always different. I'm sure if anyone had an opportunity to save the victim they would.
I don't think anyone is saying that they would run in EVERY scenerio. I'm certain people are saying that this was a special cricumstance where helping would be futile and possibly deadly.
Personally, I train Krav Maga every day with plastic guns and knives . It would be a last resort for me to try to take on a guy with a weapon because I know (based on training) that I fail 40-50% of the time. I would do what I could, but trying to be a hero could get you or others killed.
In this case, a bus is not the best location to try some hand to hand combat.
However, I do see your point about family or friends. You would not let them go down without a fight.
The way it happened was extremely quick. By the time anyone else on the bus realized what was happening, the poor victim was undoubtedly already stabbed several times. And as it sunk in and people realized the guy was stabbing him, you can add another 5-10 stabs.
Unfortunately, there really wan't anything anyone could have done to save the guy. There's no way he was going to survive so many stabs from such a large hunting knife. A knife of that stature immediately devestates and destroys every artery, organ and vessel it cuts through. Sadly he suffered massive tissue damage, organ and vascular failure within just a matter of 10-20 seconds.
Even if one of the passengers had a firearm and was good enough shot to take the lunatic down, without injuring/killing innocent bystanders; it's clear there's no way the victim would have been saved.
The other people on the bus and driver did the right thing. The only thing they could have possibly done. Get everyone else off/out of the bus safely and trap the sick lunatic on the bus.
If someone had a firearm and after everyone else was off the bus, they could have shot the fucker down before he beheaded the poor victim and commited more attrocities to his physical body. That's about the only other thing that could have been done, in this situation.
This is a sick, vile and demented individual.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
That kind of think pisses me off. Fucking white people who thinks they know everything. :mad:
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
its no different than saying whats with all the white, toothless, trailer trash meth addicts?? the more adjectives you add the MORE you narrow down the group youre targeting... you seem to think it makes it more broad and general... im sure if it had been about a white person and he had something regarding his race you wouldnt have had a problem...
settle down with the unnecessary PC and mean words
http://seanbriceart.com/
First, thank you for playing your race card.
Second, I'm not saying that all Asians are psycho killers. I'm simply pointing to the fact that the recent events involving Asian killers were very different.
They didn't give any warning or clues before hand. They lived quiet lives and shocked their peers when they carried out their murderous acts.
This is in contrast to the "White" killers who made threats and "To kill" lists. A lot of the "white" killers shocked nobody because they foreshadowed their events.
Yeah....I'm saying that Asian culture in general is more reserved and respectful. It isn't likely that a young man in trouble is going to voice his anger toward others. Cultural....
It was a joke.... Read the thread.
I love the double standards here. People can rip white people all day and the minute I make an observation about another race I become evil white guy...
You don't even know I'm white.... I could be Asian.
You assumed and then played your PC police race card
http://seanbriceart.com/
this is what gets me...
the police are able to clearly see the attacker through the bus windpows... why didnt they shoot his ass?
http://seanbriceart.com/
And now that more and more are coming like maniacs, it’s overwhelming surprising.
I’m not surprise at all with the recent events.
Oh and the race card? Cry me a fucking river! it's a recent trend too, racism has been going on for decades and we've dealt with it. and now the roles have turned and people are crying over reverse-racism. Deal with it!
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
Wow, the guy was obviously making a joke and trying to add a little levity to this terrible incident.
Way to go racist, LongRd. Didn't take much for those true colors to surface.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
The columbine kids had websites, "to kill" lists and expresssed their hate for fellow students before their rampage.
The Asian killers led respectful introverted lives and just snapped.
I'm saying that this difference is a result of the repect that Asian culture has as a whole. The killers followed their cultural lead by not expressing their anger toward others. One day they just snapped....
You may want to read the entire thread over again.
The context of my comments had little to do with the bus situation.
http://seanbriceart.com/
What the fuck is wrong with you?
The guy made a joke.
We're on the internet, almost a week since it happened. How the fuck is this anything like being at the crime scene?
You're way over the top and being completely overly-sensititive and Super Hyper Overly PC, to his harmless joke. Get a grip.
yeah but canadian police have guns?
Where on the moose do they holster the gun?
Insensitive?
right next to the bottle of maple syrup. duh.
I read where they found a plastic bag on the lunatic and it contained
an ear, a nose and part of a mouth.
he apparently says he wants to be killed.
I say give him his wish.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm a number that doesn't count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the nothing ventured - the nothing feigned
Yet stigfig13 and sgoassard3’s generalizing Asians seem to fly over your head easily.
Come on, let’s be fair, my comment and their comments were all false typical stereotypical statements. Yet, I’m the racist here. :rolleyes:
I guess, the old saying is true. If it ain’t white, it ain’t right.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
http://seanbriceart.com/
"very sad you think that way..." ----that was my exact quote.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5728076&postcount=62
oh I did call one of you a prick...I apologize for that.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
i try not to sway how people think/feel if it doesnt hurt anyone... just take it with a grain of salt... thats the only way to survive message boards... if anything i said offended you than i apologize, but i think it was all said in jest
http://seanbriceart.com/
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
This is awesome, you're a Stern fan?!!
YEP!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."