The Beheading Story Gets Worse

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  • fugawzi
    fugawzi Posts: 891
    in_hiding79 wrote:
    This is awesome, you're a Stern fan?!! ;)


    Me too

    hell yea! I love the show. He needs to stop takin' so much time off it's annoying.
    West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
  • stickfig13
    stickfig13 Posts: 1,532
    LongRd. wrote:
    I find it odd that I’m “the racist” here since my comment was basically a generalization of white people thinking they know it all. http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5731324&postcount=96 which seem to hit a nerve with you to call me a racist.

    Yet stigfig13 and sgoassard3’s generalizing Asians seem to fly over your head easily.
    Come on, let’s be fair, my comment and their comments were all false typical stereotypical statements. Yet, I’m the racist here. :rolleyes:

    I guess, the old saying is true. If it ain’t white, it ain’t right.

    It's true I may have used generalization or stereotypes. However, I think I stated that they were from my experience and the way I see the Asian community. I believe I was paying the Asian community a compliment when I said that they are generally (in my experience) very respectful and courteous people.

    Again....My point was that I think it's interesting that the the recent murders involving "Asian" males were similar in the fact that the killer was, by all accounts, an upstanding member of the community. In direct contrast to events like columbine where the killers proclaimed their hate before their killing spree took place.

    It was merely an observation.....Whether it's based in truth is completely up for debate...Which is why I posted it on a discussion board.

    As far as "white is right" and all that...

    I find it slightly hypocritical of you to stereotype the "white man" or me as a person with hate for other races. If anything, I have been critical with the way "westerners" act in society and praised "Asians" for their respectful nature.
    Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
  • LONGRD
    LONGRD Posts: 6,036
    stickfig13 wrote:
    It's true I may have used generalization or stereotypes. However, I think I stated that they were from my experience and the way I see the Asian community. I believe I was paying the Asian community a compliment when I said that they are generally (in my experience) very respectful and courteous people.

    Again....My point was that I think it's interesting that the the recent murders involving "Asian" males were similar in the fact that the killer was, by all accounts, an upstanding member of the community. In direct contrast to events like columbine where the killers proclaimed their hate before their killing spree took place.

    It was merely an observation.....Whether it's based in truth is completely up for debate...Which is why I posted it on a discussion board.

    As far as "white is right" and all that...

    I find it slightly hypocritical of you to stereotype the "white man" or me as a person with hate for other races. If anything, I have been critical with the way "westerners" act in society and praised "Asians" for their respectful nature.
    I never said you hated anybody. Just asked why you brought race into the discussion and things got out of hand. My "white is always right" remark was more tongue-in-cheek. I'm feel really bad for making you guys angry.
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5732436&postcount=117

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5732474&postcount=119

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5732507&postcount=120
    PJ- 04/29/2003.06/24,25,27,28,30/2008.10/27,28,30,31/2009
    EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
  • stickfig13
    stickfig13 Posts: 1,532
    LongRd. wrote:
    I never said you hated anybody. Just asked why you brought race into the discussion and things got out of hand. My "white is always right" remark was more tongue-in-cheek. I'm feel really bad for making you guys angry.
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5732436&postcount=117

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5732474&postcount=119

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5732507&postcount=120


    No worries my man!

    Good discussion with different points of views is always a good thing....

    May god bless Eddie and the fellas....and send em out West!


    peace
    Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
  • Rygar
    Rygar Posts: 8,711
    http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2008/08/07/6371591-sun.html
  • stu gee
    stu gee Posts: 1,174
    John Budge wrote:
    Amen, brother. Can you believe some clown on another thread suggested that the passengers may have had time to organize into a suitcase-throwing mob that would've disarmed the attacker? ~giggles~

    I dont think the idea is that ridiculous and id say someone is more of a clown for assumuing that everyone reacts the same to certain situations. Im not saying for sure id have done differently from what the passengers did, as ive said in this thread a few times, you wouldnt know how you'd react unless you were in the situation.
    People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
  • stu gee
    stu gee Posts: 1,174
    Rygar wrote:
    http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2008/08/07/6371591-sun.html

    And i wish that news stations and papers would stop giving that stupid church the attention and platform that they crave and certainly dont deserve.
    People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
  • Riverrunner
    Riverrunner Posts: 2,419
    stu gee wrote:
    And i wish that news stations and papers would stop giving that stupid church the attention and platform that they crave and certainly dont deserve.


    Poor Tim McClean - first some crazy maniac picks him out of 37 people to butcher. Then a group of other crazies (apparently unrelated to the first crazy maniac) decides to use his funeral as a sounding board. Poor guy.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
  • Rygar
    Rygar Posts: 8,711
    Riverrunner wrote:
    Poor Tim McClean - first some crazy maniac picks him out of 37 people to butcher. Then a group of other crazies (apparently unrelated to the first crazy maniac) decides to use his funeral as a sounding board. Poor guy.
    And if this one is to be believed, PETA uses it too.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080806.wpetaad0806/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview
  • IAmMyself
    IAmMyself Posts: 671
    Rygar wrote:
    http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2008/08/07/6371591-sun.html


    This just made me sick to my stomach, what f*cking morons! This makes me want to go to the funeral just to hurt someone if I saw them picketing the funeral. This makes me so angry, if this was my child, and these morons showed up, omg. :(
    "Please help me to help you, help yourself." EV
  • share
    share Posts: 551
    "God is punishing Canada"??

    I think God punished us enough by giving us Celine Dion and Nickleback.

    Seriously though, how fucked up do you have to be to even consider
    picketing a funeral for any reason.
    I'm sure the border police will be on full alert for these morons.
    we're all sentient snowflakes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I'm a number that doesn't count
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    the nothing ventured - the nothing feigned
  • small town beck
    small town beck Posts: 6,691
    share wrote:
    "God is punishing Canada"??

    I think God punished us enough by giving us Celine Dion and Nickleback.

    Seriously though, how fucked up do you have to be to even consider
    picketing a funeral for any reason.
    I'm sure the border police will be on full alert for these morons.


    OMG so true!!! I shouldn't laugh but that Celine Dion part is hilarious!!


    WTF is wrong with people?? :mad: The people in this church obivously are mad and PETA??? wtf I mean I don't condone the abuse of animals but this is in no way the same.

    Let this poor guy rest in peace and I certainly hope these inbred, hate filled morons get NOWHERE near his family. Let them grieve in peace. Enough already.
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,577
    Here is an interesting question. I've taken a few criminal law classes in my day, and this case brings up the age old insanity defense question. As far as I know, the perpetrator is being evaluated as we speak.

    Here is the issue. Many of us have said straight up that this guy has to be sick, right? I mean what healthy person would do what this guy did? So if he really is clinically "sick" how do you feel about the insanity defense?

    The definition of insanity differs a little by jurisdiction, but the basic question is "Was the defendant able to determine right from wrong at the time he did the deed?" I think most of us would agree the guy is "crazy" or "sick." And the fact of the matter is that mental illness does lead people to do unthinkable actions.

    However, the interesting phenomenon is that although people acknowledge this, they still want to see mentally ill perpetrators "fry" or suffer greatly for their actions. By definition, if insanity applies, though, the perpetrator did not commit a "crime" since there was no "mens rea" or guilty mind. In other words, they committed the act of the crime, but they did not do so with the intent that is necessary to be guilty of a crime. Generally, defendants who are found to be legally insane are committed, like Ronald Reagan's shooter, who is still in a hospital to this day.

    It raises a very interesting question to me. I guess a couple of questions.

    1. Do you think you would have to be "insane" to do something like this?

    2. If you believe the guy was/is insane, does this alter your belief on how he should be punished/prosecuted?
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
  • stickfig13
    stickfig13 Posts: 1,532
    meistereder wrote:
    Here is an interesting question. I've taken a few criminal law classes in my day, and this case brings up the age old insanity defense question. As far as I know, the perpetrator is being evaluated as we speak.

    Here is the issue. Many of us have said straight up that this guy has to be sick, right? I mean what healthy person would do what this guy did? So if he really is clinically "sick" how do you feel about the insanity defense?

    The definition of insanity differs a little by jurisdiction, but the basic question is "Was the defendant able to determine right from wrong at the time he did the deed?" I think most of us would agree the guy is "crazy" or "sick." And the fact of the matter is that mental illness does lead people to do unthinkable actions.

    However, the interesting phenomenon is that although people acknowledge this, they still want to see mentally ill perpetrators "fry" or suffer greatly.

    It raises a very interesting question to me. I guess a couple of questions.

    1. Do you think you would have to be "insane" to do something like this?

    2. If you believe the guy was/is insane, does this alter your belief on how he should be punished/prosecuted?


    I don't think he has to be "insane" to pull this off....

    A lot of stuff like this goes on in war and terror.

    Examples:

    African tribal wars....some odd shit happens with machetes (SP?)

    Terrorist beheading people.
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  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,577
    stickfig13 wrote:
    I don't think he has to be "insane" to pull this off....

    A lot of stuff like this goes on in war and terror.

    Examples:

    African tribal wars....some odd shit happens with machetes (SP?)

    Terrorist beheading people.


    True, it is not necessarily the case. But by the sound of this guy's actions, it is very likely the guy was extremely disturbed. He did not appear to have any motive whatsoever against this stranger on the bus.

    Anyway, assuming he really is very disturbed, would that change the way you feel about punishing him? Let's say he is mentally retarded and truly incapable of seeing right from wrong?

    I just find it interesting to hear people's views. Me personally, I believe that if a person TRULY cannot tell right from wrong at the time of the act (and that has to be proven of course) then the insanity defense is legitimate. Keep in mind, a person judged to be "insane" does not walk free, but rather is hospitalized in most cases.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
  • stickfig13
    stickfig13 Posts: 1,532
    meistereder wrote:
    True, it is not necessarily the case. But by the sound of this guy's actions, it is very likely the guy was extremely disturbed. He did not appear to have any motive whatsoever against this stranger on the bus.

    Anyway, assuming he really is very disturbed, would that change the way you feel about punishing him? Let's say he is mentally retarded and truly incapable of seeing right from wrong?

    I just find it interesting to hear people's views. Me personally, I believe that if a person TRULY cannot tell right from wrong at the time of the act (and that has to be proven of course) then the insanity defense is legitimate. Keep in mind, a person judged to be "insane" does not walk free, but rather is hospitalized in most cases.


    Honestly, I really don't care what type of punishment he gets as long as he doesn't hit the street anytime soon. If an expert says he is "insane" then lock him in the asylum forever. If he's not then lock him in jail forever. Same thing....

    I think the guy has to be a little off to pull something like this off......especially the canibalism.

    There will be those that say he is insane and they will dope him up and he will be on the street in 5 years. This would bother me because he will always have the capacity to this type of thing again.


    On a side note, there have been killers who did things similar (J. Dahlmer) who were not "clinically" insane.
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  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,577
    stickfig13 wrote:
    Honestly, I really don't care what type of punishment he gets as long as he doesn't hit the street anytime soon. If an expert says he is "insane" then lock him in the asylum forever. If he's not then lock him in jail forever. Same thing....

    I think the guy has to be a little off to pull something like this off......especially the canibalism.

    There will be those that say he is insane and they will dope him up and he will be on the street in 5 years. This would bother me because he will always have the capacity to this type of thing again.


    On a side note, there have been killers who did things similar (J. Dahlmer) who were not "clinically" insane.

    Yeah, guys like Dahmer were not found to be clinically insane. But it begs the question of course. If you step away from it and think about what people like that did, isn't it pretty likely that they are very disturbed individuals, by definition? Then that opens up a whole new can of worms. Yes they are deranged, disturbed, etc., but perhaps not legally insane. The lines get muddled. Or does anyone even care? There are some who say who cares if the person is mentally ill or even disabled? Just put them to death or lock them up anyway. There are way more questions than answers, but this case brings all that stuff back.
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  • stickfig13
    stickfig13 Posts: 1,532
    meistereder wrote:
    Yeah, guys like Dahmer were not found to be clinically insane. But it begs the question of course. If you step away from it and think about what people like that did, isn't it pretty likely that they are very disturbed individuals, by definition? Then that opens up a whole new can of worms. Yes they are deranged, disturbed, etc., but perhaps not legally insane. The lines get muddled. Or does anyone even care? There are some who say who cares if the person is mentally ill or even disabled? Just put them to death or lock them up anyway. There are way more questions than answers, but this case brings all that stuff back.


    I would say that locking them up for a looooong time would be my vote. No matter how much therapy or drugs they receive, they are still capable of horrible things.

    To me, being disturbed is worse than being "Insane". Being only "disturbed" would mean that the person is rationally making decisions to kill. Insane would be the opposite.
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  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Rygar wrote:
    http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2008/08/07/6371591-sun.html


    I hope those douchebags get their asses kicked when they show up, there.

    Would be quite a sight to see those Phelps morons getting pummeled into the ground.
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    stickfig13 wrote:
    On a side note, there have been killers who did things similar (J. Dahlmer) who were not "clinically" insane.
    Dahlmers actions were deemed too premeditated and methodic to pull the insane card... he wasnt insane by any account... incredibly aware of what it was he was doing in fact... i think the public almost prefers when people are found to be insane because they have an easy target to look out for instead of the average joe shmoe neighbor

    i dont think this guy will be found insane either based on an apparently very average lowkey lifestyle prior to the murder... as long as hes locked away for the rest of his sorry life, thats all that matters
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/

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