Tolerance

Deni

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

holy shit!

::slams head in to wall repeatedly in disbelief::

holy motherfucking shit!

I'm right there with you, dude. Talking to somebody like Juberoo really is like banging your head into a wall.

I don't know why I bother sometimes. lol

Deni

deadnothingbetter wrote:

or consider how in some state where gay marriages are being permitted.... many of these "pro" gay marriages are also fighting to have the law force preachers and pastors to marry gay couples even if they don't agree with it. and if they are opposed to it then these gay couples have the right to sue them, or have their licenses revoked, which would then mean they can no longer preach, teach, or marry in a local/organized church.

If this is true then I don't agree with it. There is a UU church in every state! UU accepts gays and they preform gay marriage now even though its not accepted by the government. There is always a minister who could preform the marriage in the state somewhere. Let the bigots be bigots as long as your rights aren't infringed. I think suing a judge who refused to do it (in the states where it is legal anyway) would be different because he works for the government and as a representative of that government he/she should uphold the laws. But I say... let the churches who refuse to bend alone. Eventually this new wind will break them.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

my philosophy has always been this, "believe in whatever you want to believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else." i think that is basic tolerance.

Yeah, but Juberoo couldn't believe that. Don't you know that thats a philosophy of the damned Pagans. If she believed that she'd go to hell! :rolleyes:

deadnothingbetter

Deni wrote:

If this is true then I don't agree with it. There is a UU church in every state! UU accepts gays and they preform gay marriage now even though its not accepted by the government. There is always a minister who could preform the marriage in the state somewhere. Let the bigots be bigots as long as your rights aren't infringed. I think suing a judge who refused to do it (in the states where it is legal anyway) would be different because he works for the government and as a representative of that government he/she should uphold the laws. But I say... let the churches who refuse to bend alone. Eventually this new wind will break them.

well, i'm not sure how true it is in the first place. but it's really not bigotry if someone disagrees with it. the same goes for divorces, smoking marijuana, multiple sex partners, even drinking alcohol are all things that churches don't support. it's not a political thing... it's not a hate thing... it's none of those things. all they are basing it on is on their own moral standards based on what they believe in that book. someone who sleeps with the same sex is nothing different to the church than someone who has premarital sex. it's all in the same boat... beyond that it's all theological.

however, the church will never break enough to support gay marriages by any means. it will never happen. if they do, then they are not churches.

Yeah, but Juberoo couldn't believe that. Don't you know that thats a philosophy of the damned Pagans. If she believed that she'd go to hell! :rolleyes:

it's not a pagan belief, though. jesus even lived with this kind of attitude. he respected others who opposed him, even those who wanted him dead.

Deni

deadnothingbetter wrote:

but it's really not bigotry if someone disagrees with it. the same goes for divorces, smoking marijuana, multiple sex partners, even drinking alcohol are all things that churches don't support. it's not a political thing... it's not a hate thing... it's none of those things. all they are basing it on is on their own moral standards based on what they believe in that book. someone who sleeps with the same sex is nothing different to the church than someone who has premarital sex. it's all in the same boat... beyond that it's all theological.

Well, I'm just going to have to disagree with you there. Its not about the people who just "disagree" with it. Its about the people who actively try to deny others their rights based on nothing but the fact that they disagree with it... Those people ARE in fact bigots.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

it's not a pagan belief, though. jesus even lived with this kind of attitude. he respected others who opposed him, even those who wanted him dead.

Well, yeah it is a Pagan belief. And I should know, being Pagan and all.

The Wiccan Reed states in part, An it Harm None, do what thou wilt.

deadnothingbetter

Deni wrote:

Well, I'm just going to have to disagree with you there. Its not about the people who just "disagree" with it. Its about the people who actively try to deny others their rights based on nothing but the fact that they disagree with it... Those people ARE in fact bigots.

that's not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about those who simply disagree with the lifestyles but don't force others to believe like them or live according to what they believe. like i had mentioned earlier. nothing political... nothing hateful... just a different moral standard.

Well, yeah it is a Pagan belief. And I should know, being Pagan and all.

The Wiccan Reed states in part, An it Harm None, do what thou wilt.

just cause it's in the wiccan whatever doesn't mean a thing. i think it's a general understanding of how to get along with each other. you know, like, "whatever floats your boat."

Juberoo

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Juberoo

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Juberoo

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RolandTD20Kdrummer

http://www.capstonecomm.com/Photos/waste-of-time-PC.jpg

Juberoo

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Anon

Juberoo wrote:

3. No, I can honestly say that I have never done anything seriously wrong. I have a good clear conscience that my life and my self are pure.

wow.

in 46 years, you are the first "pure" person i have ever encountered.

that's so amazing.

even more amazing is the fact that you actually believe it.

gimmesometruth27

kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.

i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.

decides2dream

and the more it';s discussed, and SEEN/acceptd in the mainstream...the better. if the heterosexual parents weren't teaching their children at home that having 2 mommies or 2 daddies was 'disgusting and abhorrent'...perhaps children would be far more accepting and tolerant...and no one would get beaten up for such ridiculousness. i COULD very well see a child going home from school and asking why a classmate has 2 mommies...and their parent's answer would be telling which is tolerant, or not. THAT is the root of it all, not the fact that some child has a home with 2 same sex parents.


funny, i don't knw if it was this thread or another....but sundaysilence provided some VERY excellent links that completely REFUTE all your claism, and i've yet to see you address them, never mind try to counter them.

so how about actually stating things that are real? kids get picked on for being fat, for wearing glasses, for having too many freakles...for liking books too much, being bad at sports, etc, etc...teach by example...and whether sarah has 2 daddies would be a non-issue.....just like josh having a mommy and daddy who live apart...or two sets of heterosexual parents, etc....is not a 'picked on' issue anymore.

get over it.
you can say it over and over again...but no matter how much you say it, ain't gonna make it true. just be clear - you don't 'approve'..for whatever twisted reasons you harbor...but NONE of them are rooted in ANY detrimental 'fact' for children growing up n such households.




btw - did you ever come to the realization...that MANY of said children, would have NO parents if NOT for a gay/lesbian couple adopting them? many would stay in the fostercare system or worse. poor parenting is teaching your children that just b/c you don't 'approve' of someone else's lifestyle..it gives you the 'right' totaunt, to talk down, to disrespect them. THAT is truly poor parenting....and just poor citizenship, and humanity.



oops...i see you already got there gimme...well done!

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.



i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.

EXACTLY.
thank you.

soulsinging

i was born and raised in ohio. i've had plenty of experience there. and there are far too many people of your mindset for my tastes. large chunks of ohio are about as advanced as 1950's mississippi.

soulsinging

where are you living that everyone else has a mom and dad? you are aware the divorce rate is over 50% right? most kids now have 2 dads and 2 moms already.

Bu2

soulsinging wrote:

where are you living that everyone else has a mom and dad? you are aware the divorce rate is over 50% right? most kids now have 2 dads and 2 moms already.

My dad married three times, my mom married 3 times. I loved every one of my step parents. Had my mom been gay and her 2nd and 3rd husbands been wives, I would've loved them too.

I used to be against the thought of gay marriage. So many like-minded Republicans argued that, unless a marital union results in procreation, it is not a valid marriage, that I actually agreed with that argument and made it my own.

But then I grew up.

If two people love one another, and want their love recognized by the state and their peers and by law, let them marry. I would hate to think that my mom might love another woman and want to leave her home and money to that woman, only to find that the state won't allow it because it's not a recognized union between the two of them. I would hate to think that if my dad had a gay lover while he was dying in the hospital, that lover would not be allowed in the room to help my father through his last breaths.

Deni

deadnothingbetter wrote:

that's not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about those who simply disagree with the lifestyles but don't force others to believe like them or live according to what they believe. like i had mentioned earlier. nothing political... nothing hateful... just a different moral standard.

Thats fine, but when I was talking about bigots I was talking about bigots! lol I think we got our wires crossed on this one.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

just cause it's in the wiccan whatever doesn't mean a thing. i think it's a general understanding of how to get along with each other. you know, like, "whatever floats your boat."

And about this... that whole thing in my original comment was a joke aimed at Juberoo, but I guess you didn't get it.

And its called the Wiccan Reed not the Wiccan Whatever.

Deni

Well, first... I'm not a self professed know it all. Why the hell would I insult myself? Thats just stupid.

And second, yes I remember you saying one time that you didn't believe in hell. Oh well, my little joke is bust I guess.

Deni

Okay, lets try to explain this one more time!

YOUR RIGHT TO PUNCH ME ENDS WHERE MY NOSE BEGINS!

That means that your right to hate ends when it interferes with the rights of others to live in peace. That's it! That's what its about. Period!

Oh and the "We" of which I speak is myself and anybody else trying to change the laws and end the bigotry.

And yes, you have already called me a bigot because I hate bigots. So don't even go there. I'm SURE that's a logical argument... in Bizarre-oh world.

Deni

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.

i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.

I agree with this (especially the last line) 100%!

You know, over in the homeschooling thread she made it seem like I deserved to be bullied and teased because I was overweight, or that it was somehow my mother's fault that I had diabetes and ADHD. Or worse, that it was somehow beneficial to me to be bullied and teased. I guess that's just the sort of person she is.

To give her some credit though... I don't think that's what she intended, but that's how it read, and if I didn't step back and read it with some emotional distance I would have taken it that way too.