kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.
i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.
Post edited by Sea on
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and the more it';s discussed, and SEEN/acceptd in the mainstream...the better. if the heterosexual parents weren't teaching their children at home that having 2 mommies or 2 daddies was 'disgusting and abhorrent'...perhaps children would be far more accepting and tolerant...and no one would get beaten up for such ridiculousness. i COULD very well see a child going home from school and asking why a classmate has 2 mommies...and their parent's answer would be telling which is tolerant, or not. THAT is the root of it all, not the fact that some child has a home with 2 same sex parents.
funny, i don't knw if it was this thread or another....but sundaysilence provided some VERY excellent links that completely REFUTE all your claism, and i've yet to see you address them, never mind try to counter them.
so how about actually stating things that are real? kids get picked on for being fat, for wearing glasses, for having too many freakles...for liking books too much, being bad at sports, etc, etc...teach by example...and whether sarah has 2 daddies would be a non-issue.....just like josh having a mommy and daddy who live apart...or two sets of heterosexual parents, etc....is not a 'picked on' issue anymore.
get over it.
you can say it over and over again...but no matter how much you say it, ain't gonna make it true. just be clear - you don't 'approve'..for whatever twisted reasons you harbor...but NONE of them are rooted in ANY detrimental 'fact' for children growing up n such households.
btw - did you ever come to the realization...that MANY of said children, would have NO parents if NOT for a gay/lesbian couple adopting them? many would stay in the fostercare system or worse. poor parenting is teaching your children that just b/c you don't 'approve' of someone else's lifestyle..it gives you the 'right' totaunt, to talk down, to disrespect them. THAT is truly poor parenting....and just poor citizenship, and humanity.
oops...i see you already got there gimme...well done!
kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.
i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.
i was born and raised in ohio. i've had plenty of experience there. and there are far too many people of your mindset for my tastes. large chunks of ohio are about as advanced as 1950's mississippi.
where are you living that everyone else has a mom and dad? you are aware the divorce rate is over 50% right? most kids now have 2 dads and 2 moms already.
where are you living that everyone else has a mom and dad? you are aware the divorce rate is over 50% right? most kids now have 2 dads and 2 moms already.
My dad married three times, my mom married 3 times. I loved every one of my step parents. Had my mom been gay and her 2nd and 3rd husbands been wives, I would've loved them too.
I used to be against the thought of gay marriage. So many like-minded Republicans argued that, unless a marital union results in procreation, it is not a valid marriage, that I actually agreed with that argument and made it my own.
But then I grew up.
If two people love one another, and want their love recognized by the state and their peers and by law, let them marry. I would hate to think that my mom might love another woman and want to leave her home and money to that woman, only to find that the state won't allow it because it's not a recognized union between the two of them. I would hate to think that if my dad had a gay lover while he was dying in the hospital, that lover would not be allowed in the room to help my father through his last breaths.
that's not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about those who simply disagree with the lifestyles but don't force others to believe like them or live according to what they believe. like i had mentioned earlier. nothing political... nothing hateful... just a different moral standard.
Thats fine, but when I was talking about bigots I was talking about bigots! lol I think we got our wires crossed on this one.
just cause it's in the wiccan whatever doesn't mean a thing. i think it's a general understanding of how to get along with each other. you know, like, "whatever floats your boat."
And about this... that whole thing in my original comment was a joke aimed at Juberoo, but I guess you didn't get it.
And its called the Wiccan Reed not the Wiccan Whatever.
kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.
i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.
I agree with this (especially the last line) 100%!
You know, over in the homeschooling thread she made it seem like I deserved to be bullied and teased because I was overweight, or that it was somehow my mother's fault that I had diabetes and ADHD. Or worse, that it was somehow beneficial to me to be bullied and teased. I guess that's just the sort of person she is.
To give her some credit though... I don't think that's what she intended, but that's how it read, and if I didn't step back and read it with some emotional distance I would have taken it that way too.
HAY Juberoo MY RELIGION IS WICCAN DOES THAT MEAN I AM "EVIL"
AND ALOT OF SOLDIERS BEFORE THEY WENT OVERSEAS WHERE CLEAN LIVING PEOPLE AND CAME BACK DRUG ADDICTS DOES THAT MEAN THEY ARE "SCUM"
being tolerant is not the same as not knowing right from wrong.
absolutely.
taking it a step beyond that tho...the idea of right and wrong, well depending on where and when you are born...can be very different. so yes, the ideas of right and wrong...quite specific to who and where you are. live in the 1800s in england for example, and what is right and wrong there...vastly different from what would hold true in 2007 america. hell, what is right or wrong in afganastan in 2007 is quite different from new yokr in 2007! so who exactly gets to decide what is 'right and wrong?' our collective socieites...countries...governments, hopefully decided upon by the majority of it's citizens...and f course our own personal belief system brought up at home, on our own, thru our religion or not, etc, etc.
nonetheless....having your own personal set of beliefs for 'riht and wrong'....doesn't always, necessarily hold true for all. as long as said beliefs/actions do not hurt or infringe on anothers right to live as they see fit...wel then, it's simply about being TOLERANT of their right to do so, even if it goes against your personal morality.
hell, there are plenty of people in this world i disagree with...think wtf are they thinking with the choices they make...but yea, it's their choice to make, and i respect that.
where are you living that everyone else has a mom and dad? you are aware the divorce rate is over 50% right? most kids now have 2 dads and 2 moms already.
exactly! juberoo, the only reason disney even has gay day is so there's fair warning to people like you who get freaked out everytime somebody's holding hands with somebody else of the same sex. they kill two birds with one stone; they make themselves look open-minded and caring, AND they advertise it loudly so good ol' fashioned 'wholesome' families can skip out on disney for a day and hit up psycho-fundie pat robertson prejucoaster hateland!
and you know what, it's only children to people like you who beat up and tease kids with homosexual parents. where do you think they learn it? maybe if everyone would teach their children love, respect, and acceptance, kids wouldn't have to be ridiculed and teased....then again we wouldn't want to take that big chunk of your argument away from you would we?
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
and you know what, it's only children to people like you who beat up and tease kids with homosexual parents. where do you think they learn it? maybe if everyone would teach their children love, respect, and acceptance, kids wouldn't have to be ridiculed and teased.
had to quote it cos it's so true... those poor kids getting beat up... maybe we should worry more about who is beating them up and why? shit, when blacks were lynched in the south was it better to teach people that's no reason to kill someone or to urge black people to change their skin color so they wouldn't risk being lynched?
had to quote it cos it's so true... those poor kids getting beat up... maybe we should worry more about who is beating them up and why? shit, when blacks were lynched in the south was it better to teach people that's no reason to kill someone or to urge black people to change their skin color so they wouldn't risk being lynched?
I agree 100%. I mean sure, I tease all the time, but its jokingly things. This is a line I wouldn't cross. Most would agree with me.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I agree 100%. I mean sure, I tease all the time, but its jokingly things. This is a line I wouldn't cross. Most would agree with me.
i find it disturbing that jubsy is more concerned about making sure these kids don't deserve to be beaten up than figuring out why any kids would want to beat them up for that in the first place.
i find it disturbing that jubsy is more concerned about making sure these kids don't deserve to be beaten up than figuring out why any kids would want to beat them up for that in the first place.
you've heard of the phase "fallen on deaf ears".....;)
From the Division of Adolescent Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx, NY:
"There are no data to suggest that children who have gay or lesbian parents are different in any aspects of psychological, social, and sexual development from children in heterosexual families." http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/9/354
From the School of Psychology, Birkbeck College University of London:
"Numerous studies over the last three decades consistently demonstrate that children raised by gay or lesbian parents exhibit the same level of emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as children raised by heterosexual parents." http://www.psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/200214.pdf
From the American Academy of Pediatrics:
"A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes." http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;109/2/341?fulltext=homosexuality&searchid=QID_NOT_SET
for excellent information/links posted above...and to see any counter-arguements links...if any....possibly provided.
especially b/c i see the same BS about children 'suffering' in homosexual homes being spewed elsewhere in other threads...and STILL not one shred of substantive evidence.
saying/typing it over and over...simply doesn't make it true!
hail, hail for accurate information!
kudos to sundaysilence for providing said info again...much obliged.
thought it all should be here since this 'tolerance' discussion seems especially focused on homosexuality...and it's sad to see some 'myths' getting posted here, again. just thought some ACCURATE info might be handy. enjoy!
thought it all should be here since this 'tolerance' discussion seems especially focused on homosexuality...and it's sad to see some 'myths' getting posted here, again. just thought some ACCURATE info might be handy. enjoy!
:rolleyes:
you should know better than to bring facts into this debate... it's about god's law, not those heathen scientists!
It's interesting. I finally googled and the only negative statements I could find were from religious sites. All others were either that same parent households were no different and quite a few actually said the kids were better off. This was one. http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=38cc20ce-7f14-44ea-b4d9-d4cd16d7a269&k=9378
I can't say I'm surprised. It is just common sense that two people who would go through all that they have to to have a child would be loving parents and provide a loving home and upbringing.
HAY Juberoo you never answered my questions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MY RELIGION IS WICCAN DOES THAT MEAN I AM "EVIL"?
AND ALOT OF SOLDIERS BEFORE THEY WENT OVERSEAS WHERE CLEAN LIVING PEOPLE AND CAME BACK DRUG ADDICTS DOES THAT MEAN THEY ARE "SCUM"?
kids who are beating kids up have problems not with the kid they are beating.It is they who are fucked up .and 9 times out of 10 it starts at their home .they are not born with hate in them its bred into them ,and they have to break that cycle.I feel sorry for people with all this ignorance, and hate because that means they are small minded .
when the KKK held their rally in new york alot of people hated the idea but theytolerated it because of their freedom of speach :
""""""deadnothingbetter"""""""
:::::::that wiccan thing you where talking about:
BIDE THE WICCAN LAW YE MUST,
IN PERFECT LOVE AND PERFECT TRUST.
EIGHT WORDS THE WICCAN REDE FULFILL;
AN' YE HARM NONE ,DO WHAT YE WILL.
WHAT YE SEND FORTH COMES BACK TO THEE
SO EVER MIND THE LAW OF THREE.
FOLLOW THIS WITH MIND AND HEART,
MERRY YE MEET,AND MERRY WE PART!
Just being on the Message Pit is a lesson in tolerence for me. There's often so much crap in here that I want to smack people upside the head about, but normally I just log off and go kick my dogs around the yard...
You have to be a 'big' person to actually quantify what attitude serves a particular purpose. The ACLU takes on these cases by the hundreds a day, not because they think the ACLU should be a "big person" but because human liberty is questionable especially when it treads upon the liberties of another.
Comments
wow.
in 46 years, you are the first "pure" person i have ever encountered.
that's so amazing.
even more amazing is the fact that you actually believe it.
kids are cruel. kids will pick on kids who are different.but kids model their parent's behavior, morals and views. kids get beat up for much less than having two mommies or daddies. the only reason that they would be bullied is because our society and people like you tell your kids that it is wrong to have 2 moms or dads. i could counter your argument by saying that kids with a mom and dad are more likely to be the ones picking on others, which IMO is a worse behavior. i will bet you my house that the kid that is from the home with the same sex parenting is NOT the one doing the bullying.
i am sorry but i think perpetuating the myth that kids need a mom and dad and encouraging your kids to not accept others who are different from them is the worst kind of parenting.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
and the more it';s discussed, and SEEN/acceptd in the mainstream...the better. if the heterosexual parents weren't teaching their children at home that having 2 mommies or 2 daddies was 'disgusting and abhorrent'...perhaps children would be far more accepting and tolerant...and no one would get beaten up for such ridiculousness. i COULD very well see a child going home from school and asking why a classmate has 2 mommies...and their parent's answer would be telling which is tolerant, or not. THAT is the root of it all, not the fact that some child has a home with 2 same sex parents.
funny, i don't knw if it was this thread or another....but sundaysilence provided some VERY excellent links that completely REFUTE all your claism, and i've yet to see you address them, never mind try to counter them.
so how about actually stating things that are real? kids get picked on for being fat, for wearing glasses, for having too many freakles...for liking books too much, being bad at sports, etc, etc...teach by example...and whether sarah has 2 daddies would be a non-issue.....just like josh having a mommy and daddy who live apart...or two sets of heterosexual parents, etc....is not a 'picked on' issue anymore.
get over it.
you can say it over and over again...but no matter how much you say it, ain't gonna make it true. just be clear - you don't 'approve'..for whatever twisted reasons you harbor...but NONE of them are rooted in ANY detrimental 'fact' for children growing up n such households.
btw - did you ever come to the realization...that MANY of said children, would have NO parents if NOT for a gay/lesbian couple adopting them? many would stay in the fostercare system or worse. poor parenting is teaching your children that just b/c you don't 'approve' of someone else's lifestyle..it gives you the 'right' totaunt, to talk down, to disrespect them. THAT is truly poor parenting....and just poor citizenship, and humanity.
oops...i see you already got there gimme...well done!
EXACTLY.
thank you.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i was born and raised in ohio. i've had plenty of experience there. and there are far too many people of your mindset for my tastes. large chunks of ohio are about as advanced as 1950's mississippi.
where are you living that everyone else has a mom and dad? you are aware the divorce rate is over 50% right? most kids now have 2 dads and 2 moms already.
My dad married three times, my mom married 3 times. I loved every one of my step parents. Had my mom been gay and her 2nd and 3rd husbands been wives, I would've loved them too.
I used to be against the thought of gay marriage. So many like-minded Republicans argued that, unless a marital union results in procreation, it is not a valid marriage, that I actually agreed with that argument and made it my own.
But then I grew up.
If two people love one another, and want their love recognized by the state and their peers and by law, let them marry. I would hate to think that my mom might love another woman and want to leave her home and money to that woman, only to find that the state won't allow it because it's not a recognized union between the two of them. I would hate to think that if my dad had a gay lover while he was dying in the hospital, that lover would not be allowed in the room to help my father through his last breaths.
Thats fine, but when I was talking about bigots I was talking about bigots! lol I think we got our wires crossed on this one.
And about this... that whole thing in my original comment was a joke aimed at Juberoo, but I guess you didn't get it.
And its called the Wiccan Reed not the Wiccan Whatever.
Peace and Love
Deni
Well, first... I'm not a self professed know it all. Why the hell would I insult myself? Thats just stupid.
And second, yes I remember you saying one time that you didn't believe in hell. Oh well, my little joke is bust I guess.
Peace and Love
Deni
Okay, lets try to explain this one more time!
YOUR RIGHT TO PUNCH ME ENDS WHERE MY NOSE BEGINS!
That means that your right to hate ends when it interferes with the rights of others to live in peace. That's it! That's what its about. Period!
Oh and the "We" of which I speak is myself and anybody else trying to change the laws and end the bigotry.
And yes, you have already called me a bigot because I hate bigots. So don't even go there. I'm SURE that's a logical argument... in Bizarre-oh world.
Peace and Love
Deni
I agree with this (especially the last line) 100%!
You know, over in the homeschooling thread she made it seem like I deserved to be bullied and teased because I was overweight, or that it was somehow my mother's fault that I had diabetes and ADHD. Or worse, that it was somehow beneficial to me to be bullied and teased. I guess that's just the sort of person she is.
To give her some credit though... I don't think that's what she intended, but that's how it read, and if I didn't step back and read it with some emotional distance I would have taken it that way too.
Peace and Love
Deni
Its alright! *hugs*
Peace and Love
Deni
AND ALOT OF SOLDIERS BEFORE THEY WENT OVERSEAS WHERE CLEAN LIVING PEOPLE AND CAME BACK DRUG ADDICTS DOES THAT MEAN THEY ARE "SCUM"
being tolerant is not the same as not knowing right from wrong.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
absolutely.
taking it a step beyond that tho...the idea of right and wrong, well depending on where and when you are born...can be very different. so yes, the ideas of right and wrong...quite specific to who and where you are. live in the 1800s in england for example, and what is right and wrong there...vastly different from what would hold true in 2007 america. hell, what is right or wrong in afganastan in 2007 is quite different from new yokr in 2007! so who exactly gets to decide what is 'right and wrong?' our collective socieites...countries...governments, hopefully decided upon by the majority of it's citizens...and f course our own personal belief system brought up at home, on our own, thru our religion or not, etc, etc.
nonetheless....having your own personal set of beliefs for 'riht and wrong'....doesn't always, necessarily hold true for all. as long as said beliefs/actions do not hurt or infringe on anothers right to live as they see fit...wel then, it's simply about being TOLERANT of their right to do so, even if it goes against your personal morality.
hell, there are plenty of people in this world i disagree with...think wtf are they thinking with the choices they make...but yea, it's their choice to make, and i respect that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
and you know what, it's only children to people like you who beat up and tease kids with homosexual parents. where do you think they learn it? maybe if everyone would teach their children love, respect, and acceptance, kids wouldn't have to be ridiculed and teased....then again we wouldn't want to take that big chunk of your argument away from you would we?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
had to quote it cos it's so true... those poor kids getting beat up... maybe we should worry more about who is beating them up and why? shit, when blacks were lynched in the south was it better to teach people that's no reason to kill someone or to urge black people to change their skin color so they wouldn't risk being lynched?
i find it disturbing that jubsy is more concerned about making sure these kids don't deserve to be beaten up than figuring out why any kids would want to beat them up for that in the first place.
you've heard of the phase "fallen on deaf ears".....;)
thought it all should be here since this 'tolerance' discussion seems especially focused on homosexuality...and it's sad to see some 'myths' getting posted here, again. just thought some ACCURATE info might be handy. enjoy!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
:rolleyes:
you should know better than to bring facts into this debate... it's about god's law, not those heathen scientists!
you know me...despite my better judgment...at times, i simply can't help myself.
although...i am learning.
here's another good one from that very same thread. i'd hate for all of it to be missed by those who surely could benefit/learn from it.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
AND ALOT OF SOLDIERS BEFORE THEY WENT OVERSEAS WHERE CLEAN LIVING PEOPLE AND CAME BACK DRUG ADDICTS DOES THAT MEAN THEY ARE "SCUM"?
kids who are beating kids up have problems not with the kid they are beating.It is they who are fucked up .and 9 times out of 10 it starts at their home .they are not born with hate in them its bred into them ,and they have to break that cycle.I feel sorry for people with all this ignorance, and hate because that means they are small minded .
when the KKK held their rally in new york alot of people hated the idea but theytolerated it because of their freedom of speach :
""""""deadnothingbetter"""""""
:::::::that wiccan thing you where talking about:
BIDE THE WICCAN LAW YE MUST,
IN PERFECT LOVE AND PERFECT TRUST.
EIGHT WORDS THE WICCAN REDE FULFILL;
AN' YE HARM NONE ,DO WHAT YE WILL.
WHAT YE SEND FORTH COMES BACK TO THEE
SO EVER MIND THE LAW OF THREE.
FOLLOW THIS WITH MIND AND HEART,
MERRY YE MEET,AND MERRY WE PART!
You have to be a 'big' person to actually quantify what attitude serves a particular purpose. The ACLU takes on these cases by the hundreds a day, not because they think the ACLU should be a "big person" but because human liberty is questionable especially when it treads upon the liberties of another.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.