Tolerance

decides2dream

thus he is not forced to provide health benefits to homosexuals...your point being? btw - late edit....said employer DOES have to supply health benefits to homosexuals, if they are in his employ..which they may very/quite likely well be...he simply does not HAVE to...yet ...provide it for his/her same-sex partner. although as i've stated MANY do...b/c it makes good business sense. however, he does...right now...have to provide benefits to homosexuals....right NOW. so i wouldn't smile too much over this supposed 'victory' against something you seem to disgust/abhore...think is 'wrong'...whatever...b/c society DOES indeed agree that ALL employees...regardless of sexual orientation, gender, religion, race, etc....must be afforded the same rights...cannot be discriminated against in hiring practices...and that yes, ALL are entitled to whatever benefits are offered by said employer. and it still holds true, that this in NO way infringes on his rights to his personally held beliefs.


those of us who DO believe such legislation should be put into law...and rights to such benefits, amongst many other things afforded to married couples...be given to same-sex couples, including the right to marriage....do and vote what we can to help such along.

thankfully, the tides are changing...and as ever, slowly......but they ARE changing. even some quite willingly, b/c...bottomline....MANY savvy businesspeople realize, simply it's GOOD business to reward and attract good employees...and amazingly, many of them are homosexuals, and/or those who encourage/support homosexual rights. also, many are pushing their elected officials in the same direction, and again slowly...we see the changes happening. it's all good. sadly not all that long ago, we had such hate for MANY individuals/groups...abhorrent violence perpertrated against them...simply b/c of their sexual orientation, their gender, their skin color, their faith, their religion...etc. sadly, we are not entirely removed from it....but i think we collectively, are truly trying to work on it.


but absolutely....i think voltaire said it best:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


so go ahead and preach your intolerant disgust/hatred for homosexuals or whomever you desire...i am simply hopeful that the rest of the world does not follow your beliefs...and it may take time, but true equality...for ALL...will happen....and basic rights for all, will be respected.


if you take pleasure and/or some form of 'triumph' by denying a particular group any rights that you are entitled to as a citizen, as a worker...and relish the fact they are denied said rights simply on the basis on their sexual orientation alone......how sad for you. however, it is absolutely your right, and enjoy the company of like-minded individuals, b/c they are most definitely no one i would want to spend any amount of time with, even if i afford them the basic respect and rights i would wish for anyone.

catefrances

Austicman wrote:

Alright dipshit I've tried to play nice but now you're just pissing me off. What is this vebal dieorrea. Hey! Why don't we let the police put the Jews into camps so you don't have to look at them. Make seperate towns for the Blacks and whites. We can call it apartness. And all the gays can stay where they belong planning your Mother partys so their 'FABULOUS'.

And the clincher. I bet you any money in the world that you think you and fundementist muslims have absolutely nothing in common. There's no way that they could possibly see the world the way you do.

You really need to sit under a tree and have a good think about life, your own exsistence and how unaware you are of the people around you.

as someone said to me recently ... breathe. just breathe.

let the stupidity and everything else that doesn't matter just wash right over you.

deadnothingbetter

decides2dream wrote:

thus he is not forced to provide health benefits to homosexuals...your point being? btw - late edit....said employer DOES have to supply health benefits to homosexuals, if they are in his employ..which they may very/quite likely well be...he simply does not HAVE to...yet ...provide it for his/her same-sex partner. although as i've stated MANY do...b/c it makes good business sense. however, he does...right now...have to provide benefits to homosexuals....right NOW. so i wouldn't smile too much over this supposed 'victory' against something you seem to disgust/abhore...think is 'wrong'...whatever...b/c society DOES indeed agree that ALL employees...regardless of sexual orientation, gender, religion, race, etc....must be afforded the same rights...cannot be discriminated against in hiring practices...and that yes, ALL are entitled to whatever benefits are offered by said employer. and it still holds true, that this in NO way infringes on his rights to his personally held beliefs.


those of us who DO believe such legislation should be put into law...and rights to such benefits, amongst many other things afforded to married couples...be given to same-sex couples, including the right to marriage....do and vote what we can to help such along.

thankfully, the tides are changing...and as ever, slowly......but they ARE changing. even some quite willingly, b/c...bottomline....MANY savvy businesspeople realize, simply it's GOOD business to reward and attract good employees...and amazingly, many of them are homosexuals, and/or those who encourage/support homosexual rights. also, many are pushing their elected officials in the same direction, and again slowly...we see the changes happening. it's all good. sadly not all that long ago, we had such hate for MANY individuals/groups...abhorrent violence perpertrated against them...simply b/c of their sexual orientation, their gender, their skin color, their faith, their religion...etc. sadly, we are not entirely removed from it....but i think we collectively, are truly trying to work on it.


but absolutely....i think voltaire said it best:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


so go ahead and preach your intolerant disgust/hatred for homosexuals or whomever you desire...i am simply hopeful that the rest of the world does not follow your beliefs...and it may take time, but true equality...for ALL...will happen....and basic rights for all, will be respected.


if you take pleasure and/or some form of 'triumph' by denying a particular group any rights that you are entitled to as a citizen, as a worker...and relish the fact they are denied said rights simply on the basis on their sexual orientation alone......how sad for you. however, it is absolutely your right, and enjoy the company of like-minded individuals, b/c they are most definitely no one i would want to spend any amount of time with, even if i afford them the basic respect and rights i would wish for anyone.

you know, this reminds me, since i live in austin.... just blocks away from the capitol.... every year or so, the kkk rally around the capitol to protest against things like "same sex marriages" and crap like that.... so when that happens, others who are obviously disgusted by it, usually gather in larger numbers to protest against the kkk. an asian, who i spoke to recently, had faced racism and discrimination when he was young, told me that the best way to protest against them eliminating them of any power they have is to ignore them. if you don't, you're giving their voices power. i think he's right.

OutOfBreath

I think it should be pretty obvious that if there is a crash between individual rights and individual opinions which one of them should yield...

That's really what it boils down to isn't it? Whether someone's ability to order themselves and their lives as wanted can be countered by someone disagreeing with it, or rather that someone's life and anothers personal opinion should have the same weight...

There may be small point inside Juberoo's reasoning, and I think he/she is attributed a bit more than he/she said and maybe Juberoo just likes stirring the nest. But it comes down to this:

Juberoo, concerning your life and how you live it, should yours or mine opinion of it and your liefstyle hold the most weight as to whether you should be allowed/not disallowed to live it?

Peace
Dan

Heineken Helen

Jube... I'm still waiting on some answers:

Heineken Helen wrote:

because what the fuck does it matter to you if two men want to marry eachother? How does this hurt you or effect your life in any way? Your stance that they SHOULDN'T marry, effects their life if you get your way, doesn't it? If you don't want to be in a gay marriage well don't marry someone of the same sex... simple as that.

Heineken Helen wrote:

So if you don't believe that women should be allowed to work, should that right be taken away from ME?

If you don't believe that God exists, should people not be allowed attend a church of their choice anymore?

If you don't believe in aliens, do they cease to exist?

Who the fuck died and made YOU God? I don't agree with everything that people do, but I believe in karma and if something's wrong, it WILL come back to bite them in the arse. Why should YOU be judge, jury and executioner?

Can you honestly say you have NEVER EVER done anything wrong in your life?

spiral out

Juberoo wrote:

exactly....and right now....society says that the law does not recognize gay marriage....

You get pleasure from that. I find that very sad.

Juberoo

.

Heineken Helen

Mainstream? Do you possibly think it's contagious or something? 'Subjected to it'? Children innocently mixed up? Do you HONESTLY believe all this? I mean honestly? If you don't please pm me and let me know and I promise I won't tell anyone you're a fake... but I really can't believe that people still come out with this stuff but yet don't know all the counter arguments to it. I could counteract myself but it's just all so bloody obvious.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Why spend time to argue with someone who is politically and socially inept?!?!?
lol...right...how bout never...

angelica

Pure is as pure does.

Purity is the opposite of darkness and ugliness.

When you choose to take the dark ugly paths of judgment, blame, hatred and intolerance, you choose to step out of alignment with pure. Plain and simple.

blackredyellow

Because children are so worried (or even knowledgeable) about their parents' sexlife... I know that when I was a little one, I cared more about how mommy and daddy got it on, then having two loving and supporting parents... :rolleyes:

The "think of the children" line is such bullshit...

jamtemplechains

blackredyellow wrote:

Because children are so worried (or even knowledgeable) about their parents' sexlife... I know that when I was a little one, I cared more about how mommy and daddy got it on, then having two loving and supporting parents... :rolleyes:

The "think of the children" line is such bullshit...

lol, yes; it's been my experience that young children have been extremely worried about the effects of homosexuality on their world around them!... haha; juberoo, the only reason people turn out prejudiced and hateful to gays is because when THEY were children, no one took the time to explain to them that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. ignorance breeds ignorance, and i think it's pretty clear what kind of environment you've come from...

blackredyellow

jamtemplechains wrote:

lol, yes; it's been my experience that young children have been extremely worried about the effects of homosexuality on their world around them!... haha; juberoo, the only reason people turn out prejudiced and hateful to gays is because when THEY were children, no one took the time to explain to them that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. ignorance breeds ignorance, and i think it's pretty clear what kind of environment you've come from...

I don't even think that parents need to take the time to actually explain that nothing is wrong it homosexuality, or that different color people are not inferior or that, people who believe in a different religion aren't any good, etc... I can't remember my parents every coming out and telling me those things, but as a kid growing up, you learn from example those types of things. If your parents and family treat everyone the same, then chances are you will to.

I think most kids growing up are tolerant to just about everyone who treats them well, even if the subject isn't brought up by the parents. It takes parents telling (or showing) kids how to be racist or bigots for them to be like that. Kids will know the differences, but usually just don't care...

decides2dream

1. poor you. subjected to WHAT, exactly? two people who love each other and *gasp!* are of the same gender?! oh the horrors.

2. c complete agreement.

3. my bible passages are rather rusty...however:
let ye without sin cas the first stone. do you TRULY believe you are so pious and righteous that you have the RIGHT to judge others? truly? b/c if i got nothing out of my religious upbringing, id di WELL absorb the message that we are all sinners....and we all should turn the other cheek...and we should all try our best to live free of judging others. enjoy your purity tho. funny thing is, for many of us....we don't see what is 'wrong' with what you find so abhorrent, so it really is all perspective.


eh well.....it's been fun, but after a while you realize, what's the point? it is boring debate when the other side brings nothing of substantive nature to the table. enjoy your purity and your self-righteousness. what a lonely world for your children, being taught to exclude and judge many on what? personally, i would much rather see a child grow up in a loving and tolerant home environment, wit same sex parents who teach their children by example...of to jusdge others by their actions and deeds.....and not such superficialities such as who they choose to love, or evn to simply fuck...what color is their skin...what religion they choose to practice....what car they have in the drive...how lfat are their thighs, etc, etc. it's all judging on things that simply do no relate to the 'value' of said human being. wow...sounds a LOT like how i view a person of true character.

blackredyellow wrote:

I don't even think that parents need to take the time to actually explain that nothing is wrong it homosexuality, or that different color people are not inferior or that, people who believe in a different religion aren't any good, etc... I can't remember my parents every coming out and telling me those things, but as a kid growing up, you learn from example those types of things. If your parents and family treat everyone the same, then chances are you will to.

I think most kids growing up are tolerant to just about everyone who treats them well, even if the subject isn't brought up by the parents. It takes parents telling (or showing) kids how to be racist or bigots for them to be like that. Kids will know the differences, but usually just don't care...

sooo well stated, and so true. i have witnessed such, firsthand, with many of my students...and upon meeting their parents, etc. children see 'differences' but are merely curious of them, but do not judge...unless taught to judge. from the mouths of babes, eh?


Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse
Of my innocence... got back my inner sense...
Baby got it, still got it





*edit - corrected lyrics

soulsinging

awesome. thanks for reminding me why i have no desire to come back to ohio.

decides2dream

soulsinging wrote:

awesome. thanks for reminding me why i have no desire to come back to ohio.

now don't throw away a whole population b/c of one rotten apple.


i find it ver interesting...to be kind about it...when people are referred to as 'filth'....'disgusting'....'abhorrent'...or any othr vile/nasty descriptor one would choose. especially when we are not discussing truly sick individuals who harm others...such as murderers...rapists...or pedophiles. merely, referencing people who love, but happen to love someone of the same gender. we have FAR more in common with a homosexual than we don't. why? b/c whie sex is a very important part of our make-up...it is NOT everything, and evn as important as it is.....well the behaviors of purse sex, lust...and love...still overall the same, just instead of opposite genders, the same. so that ONE thing....no matter ALL else they bring to this world as a human being, the contributions they make to this world...completely dismissed away in disgust....over their love and/or desire for someone of the same gender. how sad and exclusionary.

blackredyellow

decides2dream wrote:

sooo well stated, and so true. i have witnessed such, firsthand, with many of my students...and upon meeting their parents, etc. children see 'differences' but are merely curious of them, but do not judge...unless taught to judge. from the mouths of babes, eh?

One of my favorite stories is from my in-laws who were talking about my wife when she was like 3 years old... They lived in a small, rural (mostly white) town in central MA, and one day in line at the bank behind a black family, my now-wife asked her mother, loudly of course, "why are those people chocolate?" My mother-in-law was horrified, but happy that the people just laughed it off.

know1

cutback wrote:

i don't tolerate ignorance and hate.

Yes, but you're judging ignorance and hate according to your own opinions. These are subjective concepts

deadnothingbetter

know1 wrote:

Yes, but you're judging ignorance and hate according to your own opinions. These are subjective concepts

they are not subjective. anything that comes out of good intent should never be subjective. anything that has to do with love, even if it comes to defending goodness by abhorring the wrong, it's an objective matter. something that we all should fight for.

i think you mean to say that you are judging what you think is ignorance and hate based on your opinions.

Deni

Juberoo wrote:

exactly....and right now....society says that the law does not recognize gay marriage....

Exactly... and right now... we are trying to change that because we see it as unjust.