What's the fucking deal with Palestinians?

swallowedwords

I just thought I'd give equal time here.

Rhinocerous Surprise

You didn't even put them in quotes this time. How enlightenend.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

You didn't even put them in quotes this time. How enlightenend.

True. I thought I'd make a concession to move towards peace on this board.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

You mean they exist?

Someone should have told Golda Meir...

El_Kabong

i know, right??? why the fuck can't they just leave their homes q/o bitching they are being bulldozed down to make illegal settlements in violation of UN resolutions???? god, they make me soooooo mad!!! :mad:

and if i hear one more bitch and whine about checkpoints cutting them off from access to medical facilities, income, food... those things are for the jews ONLY

can't they just quietly take the bullets in their and their children's backs????

the nerve of some ppl

swallowedwords

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You mean they exist?

Someone should have told Golda Meir...

Maybe, one day all Arabs/Muslims will recognize Israel's right to exist. One can dream the impossible dream.

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

True. I thought I'd make a concession to move towards peace on this board.

Now if only both Israel and Palestine could follow your lead over there, maybe some progress could be made. I don't think you're going to find too many people supporting suicide bombings. What you might find is people sympathetic to the Palestinian's plight, and understanding why they're driven to such awful measures.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

swallowedwords wrote:

Maybe, one day all Arabs/Muslims will recognize Israel's right to exist. One can dream the impossible dream.

The method for proclaiming existence kinda sucked.

El_Kabong

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Now if only both Israel and Palestine could follow your lead over there, maybe some progress could be made. I don't think you're going to find too many people supporting suicide bombings. What you might find is people sympathetic to the Palestinian's plight, and understanding why they're driven to such awful measures.

especially when you compare how many israeli's die compared to how many palestinians are killed

swallowedwords

El_Kabong wrote:

i know, right??? why the fuck can't they just leave their homes q/o bitching they are being bulldozed down to make illegal settlements in violation of UN resolutions???? god, they make me soooooo mad!!! :mad:

and if i hear one more bitch and whine about checkpoints cutting them off from access to medical facilities, income, food... those things are for the jews ONLY

can't they just quietly take the bullets in their and their children's backs????

the nerve of some ppl

Also, why the fuck can't Jewish kids just suck it up and live with the fact that when they step on their school bus in the morning, there's a chance some Jihadist will blow them all up into ground meat? C'mon Jews, it isn't that bad having mortars launched into your homes from Gaza and southern Lebanon. Get a freaking backbone!

Rhinocerous Surprise

El_Kabong wrote:

especially when you compared how many israeli's die compared to how many palestinians are killed

Exactly. You can support the Palestinians' need to escape Israel's oppression without supporting the killing of innocent people, just like you could support Ireland's need for independence without condoning the terrorist acts of the IRA. The deaths of innocent people is what we're trying to avoid here, on both sides.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Now if only both Israel and Palestine could follow your lead over there, maybe some progress could be made. I don't think you're going to find too many people supporting suicide bombings. What you might find is people sympathetic to the Palestinian's plight, and understanding why they're driven to such awful measures.

I have a hard time sympathizing with people who hang posters of suicide bombers on their streets. It's difficult for me to sympathize with people who consider all Jews as swine. I have a hard time feeling compassion for people who teach their kids from the earliest of ages that all non-muslims are not worthy of life, and to martyr yourself while killing innocents is an honorable goal.

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

Also, why the fuck can't Jewish kids just suck it up and live with the fact that when they step on their school bus in the morning, there's a chance some Jihadist will blow them all up into ground meat? C'mon Jews, it isn't that bad having mortars launched into your homes from Gaza and southern Lebanon. Get a freaking backbone!

That's such a one-sided view of things, I'm not surprised you made such horrible remarks before.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

swallowedwords wrote:

Also, why the fuck can't Jewish kids just suck it up and live with the fact that when they step on their school bus in the morning, there's a chance some Jihadist will blow them all up into ground meat? C'mon Jews, it isn't that bad having mortars launched into your homes from Gaza and southern Lebanon. Get a freaking backbone!

When a balance is disturbed by an external force a reaction takes place.

Creating around a million homeless people by lethal force (and enforcing it ruthlessly) carries with it a few consequences.

I'm pretty sure the holocaust was not supposed to be a "pay it forward" situation.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

That's such a one-sided view of things, I'm not surprised you made such horrible remarks before.

Unfortunately, what I said is true.

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

Unfortunately, what I said is true.

From a certain point of view. But as long as that's the prevailing point of view, you're only looking at symptoms. Not the cause of the problem.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

From a certain point of view. But as long as that's the prevailing point of view, you're only looking at symptoms. Not the cause of the problem.

The cause of the problem could be the radical view of Islam many take. I don't see Arab Christians blowing themselves up.

El_Kabong

swallowedwords wrote:

Also, why the fuck can't Jewish kids just suck it up and live with the fact that when they step on their school bus in the morning, there's a chance some Jihadist will blow them all up into ground meat? C'mon Jews, it isn't that bad having mortars launched into your homes from Gaza and southern Lebanon. Get a freaking backbone!

a bit over dramatic, aren't ya??

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Suicide+and+Other+Bombing+Attacks+in+Israel+Since.htm
Suicide and Other Bombing Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles (Sept 1993)

10 in 2005 - 24 dead, 3 killed no one
3 in 2006 - 15 dead
1 in 2007 - 3 dead
2 this year - 9 dead


that doesn't add up to very many dead Israeli's in the past 4 years, especially compared to just these TWO articles:

From the Independent in 2006:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-triples-this-year-430218.html

Palestinian death toll triples this year
The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip tripled this year, according to an Israeli human rights organisation. B'Tselem said 660 Palestinians had been killed during 2006, including 141 minors. The report claimed that at least 322 of those killed were not fighters.

Israel eclipsed Palestine's 4 year death toll in a single year!

From Amnesty International this year:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/children-and-civilian-bystanders-gaza-death-toll-20080303


Children and civilian bystanders in Gaza death toll

Israeli military air strikes and artillery attacks on the Gaza Strip during the last few days have killed over 100 Palestinians, including dozens of children and other civilian bystanders. Three Israelis – a civilian killed by a rocket fired by a Palestinian armed group on 27 February and two soldiers – were also killed.

Many of the Palestinians killed were militants involved in attacks on Israel, but others were unarmed civilians taking no part in the hostilities, including some 25 children. The precise number of civilians killed is unclear and difficult to establish.

The Israeli chief of staff is reported to have claimed that 90 percent of those killed were militants, but the UN and other sources, including those in Gaza, suggest that as many as half of the dead were civilians. More than 250 other people, including scores of unarmed civilians, have been injured.

Israeli forces also destroyed houses and property across the Gaza Strip, including at least two medical facilities, before withdrawing on 3 March.


israel eclipsed the 4 year toll in just a few days!!

El_Kabong

swallowedwords wrote:

I have a hard time sympathizing with people who hang posters of suicide bombers on their streets. It's difficult for me to sympathize with people who consider all Jews as swine. I have a hard time feeling compassion for people who teach their kids from the earliest of ages that all non-muslims are not worthy of life, and to martyr yourself while killing innocents is an honorable goal.

and there's plenty of ppl and even school who teach their kids to hate muslims. like the school that had kids write letters to the idf like 'kill a thousand arabs for me!' 'the only good arab is a dead arab!'

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

The cause of the problem could be the radical view of Islam many take. I don't see Arab Christians blowing themselves up.

Why do you automatically assume it's down to radical Islam? If you lived in a country occupied by a government and military who refuse to acknowledge your basic human rights, you'd probably be driven to drastic measures yourself. Entirely separate from any sort of religious conflict, desperation can make a man do horrible things.

So the smart thing to do would be to see what makes those men desperate, and solve that.

swallowedwords

El_Kabong wrote:

a bit over dramatic, aren't ya??

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Suicide+and+Other+Bombing+Attacks+in+Israel+Since.htm
Suicide and Other Bombing Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles (Sept 1993)

10 in 2005 - 24 dead, 3 killed no one
3 in 2006 - 15 dead
1 in 2007 - 3 dead
2 this year - 9 dead


that doesn't add up to very many dead Israeli's in the past 4 years, especially compared to just these TWO articles:

From the Independent in 2006:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-triples-this-year-430218.html

Palestinian death toll triples this year
The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip tripled this year, according to an Israeli human rights organisation. B'Tselem said 660 Palestinians had been killed during 2006, including 141 minors. The report claimed that at least 322 of those killed were not fighters.

Israel eclipsed Palestine's 4 year death toll in a single year!

From Amnesty International this year:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/children-and-civilian-bystanders-gaza-death-toll-20080303


Children and civilian bystanders in Gaza death toll

Israeli military air strikes and artillery attacks on the Gaza Strip during the last few days have killed over 100 Palestinians, including dozens of children and other civilian bystanders. Three Israelis – a civilian killed by a rocket fired by a Palestinian armed group on 27 February and two soldiers – were also killed.

Many of the Palestinians killed were militants involved in attacks on Israel, but others were unarmed civilians taking no part in the hostilities, including some 25 children. The precise number of civilians killed is unclear and difficult to establish.

The Israeli chief of staff is reported to have claimed that 90 percent of those killed were militants, but the UN and other sources, including those in Gaza, suggest that as many as half of the dead were civilians. More than 250 other people, including scores of unarmed civilians, have been injured.

Israeli forces also destroyed houses and property across the Gaza Strip, including at least two medical facilities, before withdrawing on 3 March.

Retaliation is a bitch, isn't it? Again, all of this would end if the Arabs truly wanted peace with Israel. Like I said before, unfortunately, many won't rest until every Jew is pushed into the sea. There was a great chance to attain a peaceful settlement in the late 90s, but good old Yasser Arafat wasn't interested in peace.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

You want to see people stop blowing themselves up?

Give them billions in military aid.

I can guarantee you suicide bombing will stop overnight.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Why do you automatically assume it's down to radical Islam? If you lived in a country occupied by a government and military who refuse to acknowledge your basic human rights, you'd probably be driven to drastic measures yourself. Entirely separate from any sort of religious conflict, desperation can make a man do horrible things.

So the smart thing to do would be to see what makes those men desperate, and solve that.

The sad thing is, the lives of many Arabs in occupied territories would be greatly improved if their so-called leaders wanted a true and lasting peace with their Jewish neighbors. Again, when Muslim children are taught from infancy to despise Jews/Christians, there's not much chance for peace in the future.

I do see radical Islam as the problem.

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

The sad thing is, the lives of many Arabs in occupied territories would be greatly improved if their so-called leaders wanted a true and lasting peace with their Jewish neighbors. Again, when Muslim children are taught from infancy to despise Jews/Christians, there's not much chance for peace in the future.

I do see radical Islam as the problem.

Until you, and America at large, start to see Israel's part in this carnage, the cycle will just keep repeating.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

swallowedwords wrote:

Retaliation is a bitch, isn't it? Again, all of this would end if the Jews truly wanted peace with Palestinians. Like I said before, unfortunately, many won't rest until every Palestinian is pushed into the sea. There was a great chance to attain a peaceful settlement in the late 90s, but good old Netanyahu wasn't interested in peace.

I fixed your post...

swallowedwords

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I fixed your post...

Netanyahu is a smart man. He realizes that trying to attain peace with those who are bent on your destruction, is an act of futility. Ehud Barak and others certainly tried, but we all know what happened.

Rhinocerous Surprise

SwallowedWords, let me ask you a question. When Ireland was fighting the English occupation, was it because Catholics wanted to kill all Protestants? Or was it because the Irish people wanted, deserved and were entitled to a state of their own?

Open

swallowedwords wrote:

Retaliation is a bitch, isn't it? Again, all of this would end if the Arabs truly wanted peace with Israel. Like I said before, unfortunately, many won't rest until every Jew is pushed into the sea. There was a great chance to attain a peaceful settlement in the late 90s, but good old Yasser Arafat wasn't interested in peace.

hahha..retalition is a bitch? Im sure that's what the suicide bombers say too. Unless you open your mind; you will always be part of the problem. Look in the f'n mirror.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

swallowedwords wrote:

Netanyahu is a smart man. He realizes that trying to attain peace with those who are bent on your destruction, is an act of futility. Ehud Barak and others certainly tried, but we all know what happened.

So it went in the media...

Ahh... the media.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

SwallowedWords, let me ask you a question. When Ireland was fighting the English occupation, was it because Catholics wanted to kill all Protestants? Or was it because the Irish people wanted, deserved and were entitled to a state of their own?

As I mentioned previously, my mother is from Ireland and Catholic, so I definitely have an interest in this topic. I think it was perfectly justifiable for Irish Catholics to fight against English occupation, but I denounce the terror that the IRA took part in. Part of my mother's family was beaten and killed by the Black and Tans, yet my mom has always denounced the IRA's tactics as counter-productive and cruel.

swallowedwords

Open wrote:

hahha..retalition is a bitch? Im sure that's what the suicide bombers say too. Unless you open your mind; you will always be part of the problem. Look in the f'n mirror.

How does the vicious cycle of violence end? What's your solution?