I agree, that yes, many in this country are becoming bigger pussies every day. The shit people cry about these days just makes me angry. However, our generation is not perfect, and probably only marginally more "masculine" than these kids you see today-- I think that we are all pussies compared to our grandparents-- those people lived through some tough times, and never had anything to bitch about. Now everyone bitches about everything.
I also believe that war doesn't solve anything-- and any loss of innocent life is too much... I don't think you can put a number on it-- "It's only 3,000." If one person was lost in this war, and it was your brother, it wouldn't matter if it was one, or a million lost in the war, believe me, it would affect you.
While I don't believe in war, I don't believe in being pushed around, either. I think you gotta punish those who are directly responsible for fuckin with you, and it should be done swiftly, and immediately-- unlike our delayed response in dealing with terrorists in Afghanistan. Iraq should have never been-- but it is. I for one don't know how to fix that situation, but I'd love for it to be over... I also think that the people responsible for putting us there in the first place should be checked CONSTANTLY in any decisions they make based on their history of terrible decision making.
There are a million things in this country that people are making a huge fuss over right now, and in my eyes, a lot of them are just bullshit-- like political correctness (to an extent). People have to stop crying about shit like this and MAN UP a little. This war though, is worth the attention, and the emotion over the loss of people. My beef is with the media making a circus out of it. They get lost in the hype and the $--the sensationalism-- they don't actually care, on either side of the issue.
You have to think that we've lost 3,000 of our brothers and our sisters, but how many more innocent people in Iraq for every soldier of our own... They're people too.
Case in point: Everybody Loves Raymond, The Simpsons, Family Guy, and most family sitcoms. The dad is a goddamn barbarian numbskull who needs his wife to direct everything in his life or else he will live in a barn. He always has to say "I'm sorry." For what? Being what he was born to be?
You are using Family Guy and The Simpsons to gauge how society views the roles of men and women.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Hey, I'm not surprised I'm getting so much flak for this is in a Pearl Jam message board."
If you have no confidence in the validity of the responses you will receive on a Pearl Jam message board, then why post here? Why should you care what we think? If you are really serious about your opinions, and ours don't count, why not go sprout this stuff somewhere where you'll get the opinions you are looking for?
Nonetheless, over-generalizations are silly. Though, men do generally gravitate toward certain behavior (some don't, admittedly). I'm just saying that we shouldn't put men down all the time when they act like men. Boys should not be discouraged from exhibiting certain masculine behavior. When a boy acts out in class or gets in a fight at school, you discipline him. You don't put him on drugs. He needs a father to discipline him sufficiently. Fathers should be given the opportunity to run their families as they see fit, with the natural and equal influence of mothers in their respective roles. Men and women are different and are good at different things."
Good parenting is hard work. Children should be allowed to exhibit the behaviour, and encouraged to I might add, that makes them unique. I do agree that there seems to be an overabundance of drug treatments levelled at children these days, this is the world we live in and the responsibility of the parents to decide if it is the correct course of action for their child.
Seems to me that we would all love for fathers to take an active role in raising their children. Unfortunately, more seem ready to cut and run when it comes time to participate! AND YES I KNOW that there are many fathers that don't, there has been a marked improvement in the participation of fathers in the raising of children in this generation. THOSE that can be bothered getting started and hanging around in the first place. BUT the fact is that it takes more than just mothers and fathers to raise children. There are extended family, friends, communities all involved in this task. THIS is what children need for a well rounded start to life. NOT ridiculous, outdated gender roles! PARENTS should, together, "run" their families as their partnership and circumstance dictate."[/quote]
Case in point: Everybody Loves Raymond, The Simpsons, Family Guy, and most family sitcoms. The dad is a goddamn barbarian numbskull who needs his wife to direct everything in his life or else he will live in a barn. He always has to say "I'm sorry." For what? Being what he was born to be?
You are seriously using these television programs as your point of reference? This is why I am unimpressed with your points so far and I find it fairly telling as to why you hold the views you do. IT'S TELEVISION!!! IT'S NOT REAL!!! HELLOOOO????
I think, if society is guilty of anything, it's failing to be "understanding" of the male role. Everyone is expected to be understanding of women, but women are not forced to understand the male role because he is the barbarian and cannot be understood.
I will leave you with a quote from Sigmund Freud: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Look CorporateWhore, why can't you just accept "people" are all different, with different behaviours, hopes, dreams and problems? PEOPLE need to understand each other, seperate from gender and ridiculously assigned gender roles! Take people as you find them. Some men should never be encouraged to be more "male" just as some women should never be encouraged to be more "female" People should be encouraged to be the best they can be as an individual. The rest will then fall into place.
Do not even get me started on your quote!! Sigmund Freud? HA!! HA!!!
Mummy's boy!!! That's all I have to say!!!!
Seems we have some middle ground and points of agreement. That's got to be a good thing!
Both the male and female stereotypes are totally ridiculous.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Why is it that people are forcing American boys to be so sensitive. So "understanding." So...feminine.
What's wrong with men being men? I notice that boys are given ADD medicine if they start acting up in class, and then they become little asexual zombies. Boys are doing worse in school because of it.
Boys should be encouraged, within limits, to be honest about their masculinity. They shouldn't be medicated to the point of lunacy. They should be encouraged to fall within a male role, as opposed to a female role.
I see this being translated into all aspects of American life. Even the war in Iraq. Americans get disgusted by 3,000 dead soldiers. That's no small number, but past wars have been significantly higher! We need to assess wars on their principles and not troop death counts. Worrying about troop deaths is inconsequential if the cause is just. If the cause is unjust, troops deaths are just as inconsequential. They are doing what they signed up to do either way, and we elect presidents to make decisions.
oh man....where to start...
first off, the whole masculinity thing is way overblown. i think its more of teaching people that they shoudl be themsleves, not what popular culture tells us a man should be.
medicating kids is a totally separarte issue. its wrong altogether. we need to look more at why so many more kids are acting out these days than in the past. medicine is NOT the answer.
now the war....
if you only look at the 3000 dead american soldiers, you are missing the point. look at the dead civilians, the wounded soldiers, the long term consequence of this war, and many other things.
its not JUST the 3000 dead americans that have people riled up.
Leave it to Miller and Corpwhore to make our dear Ahnimus sound like a liberal thinker!
It all makes sense now!
I meant in reference to the gender roles we assume because of the stereotypes. The only reason women are arguably more sensitive and men arguably more aggressive is our society. It's not consistent cross-culture.
Statistically speaking, in terms of Domestic Violence, women are more aggressive in North America. So that debunks the whole feminist ideology right there.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I meant in reference to the gender roles we assume because of the stereotypes. The only reason women are arguably more sensitive and men arguably more aggressive is our society. It's not consistent cross-culture.
Statistically speaking, in terms of Domestic Violence, women are more aggressive in North America. So that debunks the whole feminist ideology right there.
that would be an honor to be called. look at the definition of liberal. sounds like something we should all strive for.
It is.
It's important to have liberal thoughts, but also to deliberate to a rational conclusion. It's also possible to establish a working theory and continue to practice liberal thought. So you have a system in place, but you revisit it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's important to have liberal thoughts, but also to deliberate to a rational conclusion. It's also possible to establish a working theory and continue to practice liberal thought. So you have a system in place, but you revisit it.
spot on my friend.
george clooney said it best.
"when was the last time a liberal stood on the wrong side of a social issue?"
so, what did daddy do wrong if daughter seeks out girls?
Im no shrink. Just a father trying to do best for his daughter. But I'd think that many girls who "seek out girls" are doing the same thing that girls who seek out "bad guys" are doing. Trying desparately to get some kind of attention from Dad. Even negative attention is attention. If fathers could balance being strong men with being compassionate men, and had the time needed to show daughters/sons what being a man is, our children wouldnt need to go to such drastic measures just to get some kind of rise from their parents.
kinda like how, i imagine, traditionally machismo men affect their sons/daughters.....and how boys behave, and girls choose partners. having 'too strong'...or 'too weak'...is never wise. balance, balance, balance. like goldilocks...it's mportant to find what's 'just right'.......grat for fathers, and mothers, to be excelletn role models for their children of both genders. so they may grow up with healthy modeling, and know rigidity in roles is unhealthy, just to be who they want to be, encourage them to grow and develop, push/challenge themselves...and also model desired behavior so sons/daughters will have healthy guides for choosing future mates.
Couldnt agree more. The idea isnt to be an uber macho man as a role model or a guide for your children. The idea is to balance it, and not "hide" your "manly side". Any more than a weak father who never stands up nor enforces his belief system, or one who preaches, yet never actually does what he says. Neither extreme is good. But many parts of society today ARE indeed trying to "feminise" men. Look around.
Im no shrink. Just a father trying to do best for his daughter. But I'd think that many girls who "seek out girls" are doing the same thing that girls who seek out "bad guys" are doing. Trying desparately to get some kind of attention from Dad. Even negative attention is attention. If fathers could balance being strong men with being compassionate men, and had the time needed to show daughters/sons what being a man is, our children wouldnt need to go to such drastic measures just to get some kind of rise from their parents.
what is "being a man"? Canned hunts, having your woman cleaning and cooking, drinking beer and watching football?
"when was the last time a liberal stood on the wrong side of a social issue?"
I started out a Christian, became an agnostic, then an atheist, and now finally I'm an atheist that believes in destiny theory.
It's not so much that I have to "believe" in destiny either, to me it's just that if you look at the natural cause-effect chain of all things real, it's only natural to assume that humans function in the same way. Assuming anything else, would require a stretch of "belief".
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I started out a Christian, became an agnostic, then an atheist, and now finally I'm an atheist that believes in destiny theory.
It's not so much that I have to "believe" in destiny either, to me it's just that if you look at the natural cause-effect chain of all things real, it's only natural to assume that humans function in the same way. Assuming anything else, would require a stretch of "belief".
wow, its been some time since i have been on this site. I gotta tell ya, there is really nothing more important for the human mind than to be open-minded. I dont think anyone is saying do this or else, and if they are then they need be dealt with individually. But really, the truth is, alot of women appreciate the less manly man. There is something to be said about being a well rounded individual. dont sell yourself short by polluting your mind with some obsurd way of thinking or taking things out of context. Life is too short.
"We as individuals are art...Our minds are the beauty!"
My destiny right now is to work my regular shift, because I need money, because I need food and shelter, because I need them to survive, because surviving and reproduction is the only meaning to life.
I speculate that I will become a pro-poker player if I can overcome some minor patience problems I have. I may even be destined to play with in the big time. I'm not sure yet, it could just be a dead end.
I'm relatively certain I'm going to die pretty young though, and I'll probably be alone when I do. I don't see me getting into a serious relationship any time in the near future. But there may be some determinents I'm overlooking.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Im no shrink. Just a father trying to do best for his daughter. But I'd think that many girls who "seek out girls" are doing the same thing that girls who seek out "bad guys" are doing. Trying desparately to get some kind of attention from Dad. Even negative attention is attention. If fathers could balance being strong men with being compassionate men, and had the time needed to show daughters/sons what being a man is, our children wouldnt need to go to such drastic measures just to get some kind of rise from their parents.
What about fathers who are just plain uninterested? And they are out there. Clearly you aren't one of them but plenty of men father children and then just distance them selves both physically and emotionally. Both male and female children are suffering from this little torture everyday. Sometimes Dads can even be in the house and be completely cut off from their kids.
I started out a Christian, became an agnostic, then an atheist, and now finally I'm an atheist that believes in destiny theory.
It's not so much that I have to "believe" in destiny either, to me it's just that if you look at the natural cause-effect chain of all things real, it's only natural to assume that humans function in the same way. Assuming anything else, would require a stretch of "belief".
and the other side would argue that belief, or faith, is all you need. there is something both inspirational and ignorant at the same time about that approach.
life, and the universe, are so complex that i couldn;t begin to comprehend a theory on any of it. i think its just as likely we're some other planet's ant farm as any other theory really.
but to start with the presumption that our lives are meaningless is not what people want to hear.
so for me, peace and love are about the best gift i can give to this planet.
My destiny right now is to work my regular shift, because I need money, because I need food and shelter, because I need them to survive, because surviving and reproduction is the only meaning to life.
I speculate that I will become a pro-poker player if I can overcome some minor patience problems I have. I may even be destined to play with in the big time. I'm not sure yet, it could just be a dead end.
I'm relatively certain I'm going to die pretty young though, and I'll probably be alone when I do. I don't see me getting into a serious relationship any time in the near future. But there may be some determinents I'm overlooking.
I would have to say, I admire your goals not to mention ethics. Remember, you dont need money to live, only to survive. Destiny is a whole different entity. I can tell, karma, is a truth to life. Karma is not only what comes around goes around. Its the satisfaction of knowing that what you are doing is right, or helpful etc. Trust me on this one. Its ok to be young, but learn along the way. As for love, that is truly unpredictable. That is the most beautiful mystery to life.
"We as individuals are art...Our minds are the beauty!"
Comments
I also believe that war doesn't solve anything-- and any loss of innocent life is too much... I don't think you can put a number on it-- "It's only 3,000." If one person was lost in this war, and it was your brother, it wouldn't matter if it was one, or a million lost in the war, believe me, it would affect you.
While I don't believe in war, I don't believe in being pushed around, either. I think you gotta punish those who are directly responsible for fuckin with you, and it should be done swiftly, and immediately-- unlike our delayed response in dealing with terrorists in Afghanistan. Iraq should have never been-- but it is. I for one don't know how to fix that situation, but I'd love for it to be over... I also think that the people responsible for putting us there in the first place should be checked CONSTANTLY in any decisions they make based on their history of terrible decision making.
There are a million things in this country that people are making a huge fuss over right now, and in my eyes, a lot of them are just bullshit-- like political correctness (to an extent). People have to stop crying about shit like this and MAN UP a little. This war though, is worth the attention, and the emotion over the loss of people. My beef is with the media making a circus out of it. They get lost in the hype and the $--the sensationalism-- they don't actually care, on either side of the issue.
You have to think that we've lost 3,000 of our brothers and our sisters, but how many more innocent people in Iraq for every soldier of our own... They're people too.
Arright, rant over.
You are using Family Guy and The Simpsons to gauge how society views the roles of men and women.
If you have no confidence in the validity of the responses you will receive on a Pearl Jam message board, then why post here? Why should you care what we think? If you are really serious about your opinions, and ours don't count, why not go sprout this stuff somewhere where you'll get the opinions you are looking for?
Good parenting is hard work. Children should be allowed to exhibit the behaviour, and encouraged to I might add, that makes them unique. I do agree that there seems to be an overabundance of drug treatments levelled at children these days, this is the world we live in and the responsibility of the parents to decide if it is the correct course of action for their child.
Seems to me that we would all love for fathers to take an active role in raising their children. Unfortunately, more seem ready to cut and run when it comes time to participate! AND YES I KNOW that there are many fathers that don't, there has been a marked improvement in the participation of fathers in the raising of children in this generation. THOSE that can be bothered getting started and hanging around in the first place. BUT the fact is that it takes more than just mothers and fathers to raise children. There are extended family, friends, communities all involved in this task. THIS is what children need for a well rounded start to life. NOT ridiculous, outdated gender roles! PARENTS should, together, "run" their families as their partnership and circumstance dictate."[/quote]
You are seriously using these television programs as your point of reference? This is why I am unimpressed with your points so far and I find it fairly telling as to why you hold the views you do. IT'S TELEVISION!!! IT'S NOT REAL!!! HELLOOOO????
Look CorporateWhore, why can't you just accept "people" are all different, with different behaviours, hopes, dreams and problems? PEOPLE need to understand each other, seperate from gender and ridiculously assigned gender roles! Take people as you find them. Some men should never be encouraged to be more "male" just as some women should never be encouraged to be more "female" People should be encouraged to be the best they can be as an individual. The rest will then fall into place.
Do not even get me started on your quote!! Sigmund Freud? HA!! HA!!!
Mummy's boy!!! That's all I have to say!!!!
Seems we have some middle ground and points of agreement. That's got to be a good thing!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
This is a stupid thread by the way (just judging by the first post).
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
say that to his wife
Ronald Reagan
-Enoch Powell
at least his cholesterol wasn't through the roof like michael moore.
oh man....where to start...
first off, the whole masculinity thing is way overblown. i think its more of teaching people that they shoudl be themsleves, not what popular culture tells us a man should be.
medicating kids is a totally separarte issue. its wrong altogether. we need to look more at why so many more kids are acting out these days than in the past. medicine is NOT the answer.
now the war....
if you only look at the 3000 dead american soldiers, you are missing the point. look at the dead civilians, the wounded soldiers, the long term consequence of this war, and many other things.
its not JUST the 3000 dead americans that have people riled up.
i'm more of an al bundy guy. now THAT was a man!
Leave it to Miller and Corpwhore to make our dear Ahnimus sound like a liberal thinker!
It all makes sense now!
I meant in reference to the gender roles we assume because of the stereotypes. The only reason women are arguably more sensitive and men arguably more aggressive is our society. It's not consistent cross-culture.
Statistically speaking, in terms of Domestic Violence, women are more aggressive in North America. So that debunks the whole feminist ideology right there.
I take back that I called you a liberal thinker!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
that would be an honor to be called. look at the definition of liberal. sounds like something we should all strive for.
It lasted 13 minutes....... (insert your own innuendo here)
It is.
It's important to have liberal thoughts, but also to deliberate to a rational conclusion. It's also possible to establish a working theory and continue to practice liberal thought. So you have a system in place, but you revisit it.
spot on my friend.
george clooney said it best.
"when was the last time a liberal stood on the wrong side of a social issue?"
Im no shrink. Just a father trying to do best for his daughter. But I'd think that many girls who "seek out girls" are doing the same thing that girls who seek out "bad guys" are doing. Trying desparately to get some kind of attention from Dad. Even negative attention is attention. If fathers could balance being strong men with being compassionate men, and had the time needed to show daughters/sons what being a man is, our children wouldnt need to go to such drastic measures just to get some kind of rise from their parents.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Couldnt agree more. The idea isnt to be an uber macho man as a role model or a guide for your children. The idea is to balance it, and not "hide" your "manly side". Any more than a weak father who never stands up nor enforces his belief system, or one who preaches, yet never actually does what he says. Neither extreme is good. But many parts of society today ARE indeed trying to "feminise" men. Look around.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
what is "being a man"? Canned hunts, having your woman cleaning and cooking, drinking beer and watching football?
http://www.liquorwits.com/code.html
see number 17
I started out a Christian, became an agnostic, then an atheist, and now finally I'm an atheist that believes in destiny theory.
It's not so much that I have to "believe" in destiny either, to me it's just that if you look at the natural cause-effect chain of all things real, it's only natural to assume that humans function in the same way. Assuming anything else, would require a stretch of "belief".
then tell us, what is your destiny?
My destiny right now is to work my regular shift, because I need money, because I need food and shelter, because I need them to survive, because surviving and reproduction is the only meaning to life.
I speculate that I will become a pro-poker player if I can overcome some minor patience problems I have. I may even be destined to play with in the big time. I'm not sure yet, it could just be a dead end.
I'm relatively certain I'm going to die pretty young though, and I'll probably be alone when I do. I don't see me getting into a serious relationship any time in the near future. But there may be some determinents I'm overlooking.
What about fathers who are just plain uninterested? And they are out there. Clearly you aren't one of them but plenty of men father children and then just distance them selves both physically and emotionally. Both male and female children are suffering from this little torture everyday. Sometimes Dads can even be in the house and be completely cut off from their kids.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
and the other side would argue that belief, or faith, is all you need. there is something both inspirational and ignorant at the same time about that approach.
life, and the universe, are so complex that i couldn;t begin to comprehend a theory on any of it. i think its just as likely we're some other planet's ant farm as any other theory really.
but to start with the presumption that our lives are meaningless is not what people want to hear.
so for me, peace and love are about the best gift i can give to this planet.
I would have to say, I admire your goals not to mention ethics. Remember, you dont need money to live, only to survive. Destiny is a whole different entity. I can tell, karma, is a truth to life. Karma is not only what comes around goes around. Its the satisfaction of knowing that what you are doing is right, or helpful etc. Trust me on this one. Its ok to be young, but learn along the way. As for love, that is truly unpredictable. That is the most beautiful mystery to life.