I dunno, again the blue collar comedy people get a ton of press. Certainly recent comments by Bill Cosby criticizing black culture have gotten a fair amount of press, as did that recent effort to ban the word n*gger, an effort that I perceived to be inspired by blacks who didn't like hearing it in rap music. I've heard both Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson criticize gangsta rap, they both get a ton of press.
Oh ok now I know who I'm dealing with. You think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are strong leaders for the black community. That's funny.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Yes, why DOES the media always point out that black on black crime is so high but they don't point out black on white crime??? Why is that?
They certainly acknowledge the presence of race as a factor in black on black crime.
that's what I'm asking...why does it matter...? why do we, which here means we, care some much about the color or race of someone who committed a crime...?
So 8.8% of all homicides are black on white... alert the media... how dare they minimize it compared to the 42.2% of black on black homicides...
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
The messenger should not matter, only the validity of the message. When facts are presented it's pointless to argue the validity of the messenger, sorry but that's a little baby's game. What you can argue is if the facts being presented are releveant to the discussion. In this case you argue that the skin color facts just show correlation and not causation, and that causation is primarily due to socie-economic factors. I think you'd be a lot farther ahead sticking to this than attackig the messenger.
I agree the facts should speak for themselves, but if the messenger is a racist website, much of the credibility goes out the door.
Corpwhore may be good at presenting "just the facts", but they always seem to have racist overtones.
Why does he not ever present any facts about racism towards black people in the 1950s?
Presenting negative facts about various groups is just a back-door way of bashing those groups, which is what CW loves to do. How does someone in their 20s get so wrapped up in hatred?
Oh ok now I know who I'm dealing with. You think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are strong leaders for the black community. That's funny.
Show me anywhere in my post that I said that they were strong black leaders. I said that they criticized gangsta rap, and were covered by the media. Honestly I think they're both well intentioned but are pretty ineffective because they create as many supporters of their causes as they do detractors. How about you read what a person says before inferring your own biases?
he made perfect sense, that every black in the ghetto glorifies gang violence and that the all speak Ebonics...she was spot on calling it a "redneck culture for blacks", since we all know that blacks and rednecks can't be one in the same....
I have to admit that I'm behind on the whole "redneck culture" thing...I wonder what that truly entails...
He never said they all are like that. His point is that Ebonics and Gang/Thug culture have been and continues to be a dominating presence, there.
He never said they all are like that. His point is that Ebonics and Gang/Thug culture have been and continues to be a dominating presence, there.
I'm curious, why, in your opinion is that black thug culture embraced by many whites (ie sales of rap, ghetto clothes, white people speaking in ebonics, etc.)?
Why are these facts not being reported? Political correctness. You will never cease to hear about Black on Black crime and how awful it is. Yet, the Black on White crime rate is higher than Black on Black crime.
The color of crime is statistically dark-skinned. Perhaps the media should report that instead of sweeping it under the rug.
A. Yes, it is true black on white crime is higher than black on black. However, If you look at the percentage of blacks in this population vs. white, it is easy to see that black on black crime is a severe issue, and even more so than black on white crime.
B. Perhaps we should do something about poverty in this country, instead of ignoring it. You know, the reason these problems exist is because our way of life can't sustain itself without the destitute.
C. Less than 60 years ago, segregation still existed. You really believe racism is dead in America? It has simply become institutionalized.
D. A big reason black crime exists is because of the drug trade. We claim to have a war on drugs, where we demonize drug use by giving heavy sentences to people found guilty of it's use or trade. It is funny then that we also are the largest contributors to the governments which supply us these drugs. Even more disturbing, there have been discoveries of clear links between the C.I.A. and the cocaine that broke up heavily organized black communities in the past.
E. However, I agree with the idea that we should put to death, Political Correctness!
What don't I get? I hear about Black on White crime all the time. From the media. You want to talk about the Washington Post specifically, fine. Fuck the Washington Post. I don't read it anyway.
So. Why do you think these statisics exist? Even if you don't agree with me, I've given my opinion. What's yours?
I'm curious, why, in your opinion is that black thug culture embraced by many whites (ie sales of rap, ghetto clothes, white people speaking in ebonics, etc.)?
You know that's a good question.
I suppose I really don't know. Does anyone really know?
But I can speculate.
I'm guessing because the black thug culture presents a tough, hard-nosed, sexually-charged, physically strong ( ignoring intellectuality ), rebelious image and lifestyle; so teenage kids think that's cool. Regardless of color or race. It's really just pop culture.
Much like the Heavy Metal bands of the late 70s and 80s. Long-haired, leather-clad, rebelious tough-guys, with hard-nosed strong music and a high appreciation of the female form. Teenagers thought that was cool, so they ate that image up and tried to live it, too. There certainly were a lot of black kids (and teenagers of different races) who picked up on that, too. But certainly not to the extent of this Rap/Hip Hop culture.
The term impressionable comes to mind. A good percentage of teenagers are highly impressionable.
Yeah, I would definitely agree with this. Its interesting that despite years of racism Blacks have had enormous influence on our popular culture from Jazz to Rock and now Rap.
I suppose I really don't know. Does anyone really know?
But I can speculate.
I'm guessing because the black thug culture presents a tough, hard-nosed, sexually-charged, physically strong ( ignoring intellectuality ), rebelious image and lifestyle; so teenage kids think that's cool. Regardless of color or race. It's really just pop culture.
Much like the Heavy Metal bands of the late 70s and 80s. Long-haired, leather-clad, rebelious tough-guys, with hard-nosed strong music and a high appreciation of the female form. Teenagers thought that was cool, so they ate that image up and tried to live it, too. There certainly were a lot of black kids (and teenagers of different races) who picked up on that, too. But certainly not to the extent of this Rap/Hip Hop culture.
The term impressionable comes to mind. A good percentage of teenagers are highly impressionable.
What about the White on Black crimes...slavery, denial of civil rights, denial of riding in the front of the bus, denial of moving into a white neighborhood, denial of attending "white schools"?
Perhaps those past crimes begat the current situation!
What about the White on Black crimes...slavery, denial of civil rights, denial of riding in the front of the bus, denial of moving into a white neighborhood, denial of attending "white schools"?
Perhaps those past crimes begat the current situation!
See, all of that doesn't matter because Black people do bad things too. Any marginalized group that does anything wrong isn't really marginalized. Also the only racism thats important is perpetrated by non-whites against whites.
if you say so...It's been awhile since I've been to the ghetto to assess things...
I wonder when the last time you or CW hung out in the inner city and got a taste of the culture there...
I have a friend of my ex, who lives in an area like that. I have visted her on occasion. Been about three to five months the last time I was there.
Not a good neighborhood and not a good place for a wandering white boy.
But because I'm friends with her and they know me now, I'm okay.
I don't live in a similar neighborhood. My neighborhood is probably more middle class, or lower middle class. Nice neighborhood and some nice neighbors.
My house is actuallly bookended by the homes of two black families and one black family across the street. We have a nice mixture of blacks, whites, a few hispanics and one middle eastern family; on my street.
So it's not like I live in a completely white neighborhood and am never exposed to people of other races or cultures.
Yeah, I would definitely agree with this. Its interesting that despite years of racism Blacks have had enormous influence on our popular culture from Jazz to Rock and now Rap.
Yeah, that always amazed me, too.
I simply love a lot of jazz, blues, funk and soul music. I can't even count how many CDs and vinyl records I have of Roy Brown , Grant Green, John Coltrane, Jimmy Smith, Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Mcgriff, Dizzy Gillespie, Art Blakey, Ella Fitzgerald, War, The Ohio Players...I mean the list goes on and on.
Yet, I have met guys who love this music and are still racists. Very odd.
Although, I do not like Rap and Hip Hop. I think it sucks barwire.
See, all of that doesn't matter because Black people do bad things too. Any marginalized group that does anything wrong isn't really marginalized. Also the only racism thats important is perpetrated by non-whites against whites.
The execution-style murder of three African-American college students in Newark, N.J., forced to kneel and shot in the head -- allegedly by an illegal alien from Peru who was out on bail for the serial rape of a 5-year-old -- has the makings of a Willie Horton issue in 2008.
Newark, like New York, is a "sanctuary city," where cops are not to ask criminal suspects if they are in the country legally. Mitt Romney has been hammering Rudy Giuliani on the issue, trashing his tough-cop resume by painting the mayor as den mother of the Big Apple's playpen for illegal aliens.
The arrest of Jose Carranza in that Newark massacre, amid reports he had Hispanic accomplices and the murders may have been part of a gang initiation, has also elevated the issue of the black-brown war raging in U.S. big cities.
In the Aug. 10 Washington Post story that covered the Carranza arrest, the same page had two related articles. One was headlined, "Study: Almost Half of Murder Victims Black," the other, "Slaying of Popular Editor Stuns Blacks in Oakland."
The second headline reveals an ideological slant. One would assume that everyone in Oakland was stunned by the daylight execution of African-American editor Chauncey Bailey, allegedly by a teenage foot soldier at Your Black Muslim Bakery, which Bailey was investigating.
At Bailey's funeral, a mourner held up a sign reading, "Stop Black on Black Violence." That was the subject of the second Post story.
"Nearly half the people murdered in the United States are black," declared the opening paragraph, "part of a persistent pattern in which African Americans are disproportionately victimized by violent crime, according to a new Justice Department study."
Among other conclusions reported by the Post:
-- Blacks are more likely than whites or Hispanics to be victims of crime.
-- Blacks are more likely than any other group to be victims of "serious violent crime," such as rape, assault and robbery.
-- Blacks were more than twice as likely as whites to be confronted with a firearm during a crime.
"Overall, the new Justice findings jibe with previous studies," said the Post. "For example, a review of FBI data from 2004 by the Violence Policy Center, a liberal-leaning group that campaigns for stricter gun control laws, found that blacks accounted for about half of the nation's murder victims that year."
"Black victimization is a real problem, and it's often black on black," said David Harris, a law professor at the University of Toledo who studies crime statistics.
"Often"? Correction, Harris. As the Post reports and Justice concedes, in more than nine out of 10 cases, black victims are murdered by fellow blacks.
Utterly absent from the Post story and Justice Department stats is anything about white victims of crime. Not a word. Do white folks not count, though they are two-thirds of the population?
Yet, in "The Color of Crime: Race, Crime and Justice in America," produced by the "right-leaning" New Century Foundation in 2005, using the same FBI and Justice surveys, startling facts emerge:
-- "Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against other blacks." Forty-five percent of the victims of violent crime by blacks are white folks, 43 percent are black, 10 percent are Hispanic.
-- Blacks are seven times as likely as people of other races to commit murder, eight times more likely to commit robbery and three times more likely to use a gun in a crime.
-- "Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit violent crime against a white person than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery." (If decent black folks have trouble hailing a cab, and they do, these numbers may help explain it.)
-- Black-on-white rape is 115 times more common than the reverse.
Even the two most famous sexual assaults by white men on black women in the last two decades -- the Tawana Brawley and Duke rape cases -- turned out to be hoaxes.
What do these statistics tell us? A message the Post will not report. The real repository of racism in America -- manifest in violent interracial assault, rape and murder -- is to be found not in the white community, but the African-American community. In almost all interracial attacks, whites are the victims, not the victimizers.
Why does the Post not report such statistics? My guess: Because the stats would shatter the Post's cultivated image of America as a land where white racism is the great lurking malevolent monster. Stories that conform to the image get play. Stories that contradict it are buried.
But, if the Bush Justice Department is doing in-depth studies on black victims of crime and who is responsible, why not one on the victimization of Americans of all colors and who is responsible?
Or is that information we ought not know, and news not fit to print?
Why are these facts not being reported? Political correctness. You will never cease to hear about Black on Black crime and how awful it is. Yet, the Black on White crime rate is higher than Black on Black crime.
The color of crime is statistically dark-skinned. Perhaps the media should report that instead of sweeping it under the rug.
if the percentage of victims is 45 white and 43 black..
the ratio of white to black in the us is not 45/43... so the blacks are suffering a disproportunately high percentage of violence. which is contrary to this pathetic accertion.
What about the White on Black crimes...slavery, denial of civil rights, denial of riding in the front of the bus, denial of moving into a white neighborhood, denial of attending "white schools"?
Perhaps those past crimes begat the current situation!
i doublt you'll get many replies, jjj. valid point, tho!
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
I wanted to mention this earlier, my finger may be off the pulse here but I haven't heard many stories about black on anyone crime making the news lately, at least on TV. I often surf MSNBC, CNN and some local news and its mostly about the war, stupid celebrities, the utah mine thing, michael vick and the 2008 campaign. When you guys refer to the media are you referring to past instances, magazines, newspapers or what?
true. the only time we hear about it now is when the bushies are trying to slip another one past us and they need a red herring to distract us from the further rape and pillage of our constitution.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
whahhh whahhh whahhh!!! >stomps foot and throws all-day-sucker to the ground<
really? you mean the fact that white people basically run the world isn't enough, they have to be the biggest victims as well?
Maybe if you started viewing people as individuals and not as sterotypes you'd see that there are currenlty millions of marginalized/disenfranchised white people. The color of their skin shouldn't matter (but it seems to) but only their situation.
From my perspective, I don't care what side of the arguement you are on as soon as you start stereotyping, refering to skin color rather than the individual you are part of the problem. No matter how well intentioned you are, yo are part of the problem
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Oh goody! Another race thread. These are always illuminating.
For what it's worth, FBI statistics are pretty useless in measuring actual victimization. The FBI only collects statistics on *arrests*. And it's pretty well-established that police departments are best at arresting black people who victimize white people, but not so good at arresting those who victimize black people or Latino people or anyone who isn't white.
I hate to interrupt these lovely conversations with research done by professionals.
"Things will just get better and better even though it
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
Maybe if you started viewing people as individuals and not as sterotypes you'd see that there are currenlty millions of marginalized/disenfranchised white people. The color of their skin shouldn't matter (but it seems to) but only their situation.
From my perspective, I don't care what side of the arguement you are on as soon as you start stereotyping, refering to skin color rather than the individual you are part of the problem. No matter how well intentioned you are, yo are part of the problem
The color of their skin shouldn't matter, but would you agree that these white people have a built-in advantage when it comes to securing housing/jobs?
Its very convenient to ask that others view people as individuals when it pertains to white people. If only the color of a black person's skin wasn't the controlling factor in how he was treated in the 1960s, we'd have more racial harmony today.
The color of their skin shouldn't matter, but would you agree that these white people have a built-in advantage when it comes to securing housing/jobs?
In most situations no. My skin color is going to work against me in becoming a rapper or NBA player or sprinter or federal government jobs in Canada. I've been places in the US and elsewhere where being white just makes me a target. The stereotype you want to perpetuate is not valid, you have to look at the individual and the situation.
Its very convenient to ask that others view people as individuals when it pertains to white people. If only the color of a black person's skin wasn't the controlling factor in how he was treated in the 1960s, we'd have more racial harmony today.
I can't go back 40, 50 or 100 years and ask people to do the right thing. But we should be at the point as a society where we all do the right thing regardless of history. You think it's convenient to do the right thing????? Yet here you are questioning me for doing trying to do the right thing.
We are all the same. I don't give a fuck why the person is in the muck, I'm going to do the humane thing and give a hand and help him up.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Comments
Oh ok now I know who I'm dealing with. You think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are strong leaders for the black community. That's funny.
-Enoch Powell
that's what I'm asking...why does it matter...? why do we, which here means we, care some much about the color or race of someone who committed a crime...?
Here are some stats to chew on...
All are % of homicides based on race of victims and offenders:
White on White: 44.6%
Black on White: 8.8%
White on Black:3.2 %
Black on Black: 42.2%
Source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/ovracetab.htm
So 8.8% of all homicides are black on white... alert the media... how dare they minimize it compared to the 42.2% of black on black homicides...
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I agree the facts should speak for themselves, but if the messenger is a racist website, much of the credibility goes out the door.
Corpwhore may be good at presenting "just the facts", but they always seem to have racist overtones.
Why does he not ever present any facts about racism towards black people in the 1950s?
Presenting negative facts about various groups is just a back-door way of bashing those groups, which is what CW loves to do. How does someone in their 20s get so wrapped up in hatred?
so, what's the purpose of the statistics...? crime is crime, right...?
LOL!
Sheesh.....you are funny.
And still you don't get it.....LOL!
Show me anywhere in my post that I said that they were strong black leaders. I said that they criticized gangsta rap, and were covered by the media. Honestly I think they're both well intentioned but are pretty ineffective because they create as many supporters of their causes as they do detractors. How about you read what a person says before inferring your own biases?
I wonder if this is the "redneck culture" I've been hearing about...
He never said they all are like that. His point is that Ebonics and Gang/Thug culture have been and continues to be a dominating presence, there.
There's no denying that.
Simple, that doesn't account for "violent crime" but "homicides."
lol
-Enoch Powell
I'm curious, why, in your opinion is that black thug culture embraced by many whites (ie sales of rap, ghetto clothes, white people speaking in ebonics, etc.)?
if you say so...It's been awhile since I've been to the ghetto to assess things...
I wonder when the last time you or CW hung out in the inner city and got a taste of the culture there...
A. Yes, it is true black on white crime is higher than black on black. However, If you look at the percentage of blacks in this population vs. white, it is easy to see that black on black crime is a severe issue, and even more so than black on white crime.
B. Perhaps we should do something about poverty in this country, instead of ignoring it. You know, the reason these problems exist is because our way of life can't sustain itself without the destitute.
C. Less than 60 years ago, segregation still existed. You really believe racism is dead in America? It has simply become institutionalized.
D. A big reason black crime exists is because of the drug trade. We claim to have a war on drugs, where we demonize drug use by giving heavy sentences to people found guilty of it's use or trade. It is funny then that we also are the largest contributors to the governments which supply us these drugs. Even more disturbing, there have been discoveries of clear links between the C.I.A. and the cocaine that broke up heavily organized black communities in the past.
E. However, I agree with the idea that we should put to death, Political Correctness!
So. Why do you think these statisics exist? Even if you don't agree with me, I've given my opinion. What's yours?
You know that's a good question.
I suppose I really don't know. Does anyone really know?
But I can speculate.
I'm guessing because the black thug culture presents a tough, hard-nosed, sexually-charged, physically strong ( ignoring intellectuality ), rebelious image and lifestyle; so teenage kids think that's cool. Regardless of color or race. It's really just pop culture.
Much like the Heavy Metal bands of the late 70s and 80s. Long-haired, leather-clad, rebelious tough-guys, with hard-nosed strong music and a high appreciation of the female form. Teenagers thought that was cool, so they ate that image up and tried to live it, too. There certainly were a lot of black kids (and teenagers of different races) who picked up on that, too. But certainly not to the extent of this Rap/Hip Hop culture.
The term impressionable comes to mind. A good percentage of teenagers are highly impressionable.
Perhaps those past crimes begat the current situation!
See, all of that doesn't matter because Black people do bad things too. Any marginalized group that does anything wrong isn't really marginalized. Also the only racism thats important is perpetrated by non-whites against whites.
I have a friend of my ex, who lives in an area like that. I have visted her on occasion. Been about three to five months the last time I was there.
Not a good neighborhood and not a good place for a wandering white boy.
But because I'm friends with her and they know me now, I'm okay.
I don't live in a similar neighborhood. My neighborhood is probably more middle class, or lower middle class. Nice neighborhood and some nice neighbors.
My house is actuallly bookended by the homes of two black families and one black family across the street. We have a nice mixture of blacks, whites, a few hispanics and one middle eastern family; on my street.
So it's not like I live in a completely white neighborhood and am never exposed to people of other races or cultures.
Yeah, that always amazed me, too.
I simply love a lot of jazz, blues, funk and soul music. I can't even count how many CDs and vinyl records I have of Roy Brown , Grant Green, John Coltrane, Jimmy Smith, Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Mcgriff, Dizzy Gillespie, Art Blakey, Ella Fitzgerald, War, The Ohio Players...I mean the list goes on and on.
Yet, I have met guys who love this music and are still racists. Very odd.
Although, I do not like Rap and Hip Hop. I think it sucks barwire.
That's a big 'ole load of crap.
In fact, it's probably more in vica-versa.
if the percentage of victims is 45 white and 43 black..
the ratio of white to black in the us is not 45/43... so the blacks are suffering a disproportunately high percentage of violence. which is contrary to this pathetic accertion.
whahhh whahhh whahhh!!! >stomps foot and throws all-day-sucker to the ground<
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
i doublt you'll get many replies, jjj. valid point, tho!
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
I will get the normal replies "Stop living in the past", or "they have to move-on". Easier said then done!
true. the only time we hear about it now is when the bushies are trying to slip another one past us and they need a red herring to distract us from the further rape and pillage of our constitution.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
From my perspective, I don't care what side of the arguement you are on as soon as you start stereotyping, refering to skin color rather than the individual you are part of the problem. No matter how well intentioned you are, yo are part of the problem
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
For what it's worth, FBI statistics are pretty useless in measuring actual victimization. The FBI only collects statistics on *arrests*. And it's pretty well-established that police departments are best at arresting black people who victimize white people, but not so good at arresting those who victimize black people or Latino people or anyone who isn't white.
I hate to interrupt these lovely conversations with research done by professionals.
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
-- EV, Live at the Showbox
The color of their skin shouldn't matter, but would you agree that these white people have a built-in advantage when it comes to securing housing/jobs?
Its very convenient to ask that others view people as individuals when it pertains to white people. If only the color of a black person's skin wasn't the controlling factor in how he was treated in the 1960s, we'd have more racial harmony today.
I can't go back 40, 50 or 100 years and ask people to do the right thing. But we should be at the point as a society where we all do the right thing regardless of history. You think it's convenient to do the right thing????? Yet here you are questioning me for doing trying to do the right thing.
We are all the same. I don't give a fuck why the person is in the muck, I'm going to do the humane thing and give a hand and help him up.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley