World War II was unnecessary

FiveB247x

Once again, all you've stated is one side is innocent and the other is guilty. Applying blame (which is arbitrary and based on your opinion) is more important than finding a solution.

JordyWordy

Outlaw, your passion about your chosen topic is commendable. However, you're not willing to consider opinions that disagree with yours. Inability to question or consider conflicting opinions other than your own undermines your credibility. Rigid and unyielding rhetoric is making you just sound like an anti-israel extremist. Extremism simply does not create a peaceful solution like your claiming it would.

If you want to vent steam / feel big and force us into your line of thinking then join a real debating team, or public speaking forum. if you dont like our reactions i can only imagine the response you would get when you take your voice to reasonable public forums.

Exert your ego somewhere you cant hide behind a keyboard, and see how far your Nazi comparisons get you then

Sorry if you feel this post in some way "ignores your points" or "fails to provide a solution"....

RolandTD20Kdrummer

FiveB247x wrote:

Is this the generic life of the everyday, average Palestinian? Seriously, why must you state such over the top things. It completely takes away from any legitimate point you could potentially make.

As for you comments about genocide, please post a specific number of casualties in which Israel fully and knowingly tried to kill Palestinians with the intent of extermination. You can't such things because they're simply untrue. You take the facts and make a leap into some greater notion, where it doesn't belong.

You just don't get it do you?

more of a statement rather than a question

FiveB247x

It's got nothing to do with "getting it". I understand every word you've claimed, but disagree with your opinions and assumptions on this matter.

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You just don't get it do you?

more of a statement rather than a question

fuck

FiveB247x wrote:

Once again, all you've stated is one side is innocent and the other is guilty. Applying blame (which is arbitrary and based on your opinion) is more important than finding a solution.

No. I'm saying one side has the upper hand and is clearly the more powerful one. Which is why that side is occupying the other side. It is not so balanced as you claim it to be. In order for there to be peace, the stronger side must back down first.

fuck

JordyWordy wrote:

Outlaw, your passion about your chosen topic is commendable. However, you're not willing to consider opinions that disagree with yours. Inability to question or consider conflicting opinions other than your own undermines your credibility. Rigid and unyielding rhetoric is making you just sound like an anti-israel extremist. Extremism simply does not create a peaceful solution like your claiming it would.

extremist? so calling Israel out all of a sudden makes me an extremist? Nice. Thanks for the "constructive criticism." But the problem is, no one here really is presenting an opinion. In fact... I really don't even know what anyone is presenting. so far, you guys have criticized me and said "both people are at fault" and "this is not genocide." sure, those CAN be opinions, but the fact of the matter is that history and the present both have facts that present otherwise. just cause both people are at fault does not mean one is more than the other.

and this isn't "he stole my cookie so I took his lollipop," so no weak analogies, please. this is an occupation taking place, and the fact that you guys choose to focus on whether or not it is a genocide rather than whether or not Israel should withdraw from the occupied territories says a lot about yourselves.

If you want to vent steam / feel big and force us into your line of thinking then join a real debating team, or public speaking forum. if you dont like our reactions i can only imagine the response you would get when you take your voice to reasonable public forums.

Exert your ego somewhere you cant hide behind a keyboard, and see how far your Nazi comparisons get you then

Lol. do you even know me?? who's to say I'm not already involved in things outside of the internet? :rolleyes:

Sorry if you feel this post in some way "ignores your points" or "fails to provide a solution"....

apology accepted.

angelica

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You just don't get it do you?

more of a statement rather than a question

They have a different perspective than you...

and...no...they don't get yours or outlaw's perspective.

When they understand, they'll show it with understanding. Until we have understanding, the conflict goes on and on...

inmytree

angelica wrote:

They have a different perspective than you...

and...no...they don't get yours or outlaw's perspective.

When they understand, they'll show it with understanding. Until we have understanding, the conflict goes on and on...

it goes both ways...

you know that, right...?

angelica

inmytree wrote:

it goes both ways...

you know that, right...?

I refer to when Roland and outlaw have clearly expressed that they are not being heard and in some cases are being misunderstood and misconstrued. I can clearly see how this is happening in their cases, when those who are not understanding and are misconstruing do not seem to see this. I think it's important to recognize that this is about the lack of being able to bridge differences into understanding. It's not merely about differences of opinion being present.

When others are not being heard, and are being misunderstood or misconstrued, yes, of course it totally applies.

FiveB247x

That is your opinion, not a fact. If two sides want peace, both need to work towards it..

_outlaw wrote:

No. I'm saying one side has the upper hand and is clearly the more powerful one. Which is why that side is occupying the other side. It is not so balanced as you claim it to be. In order for there to be peace, the stronger side must back down first.

fuck

FiveB247x wrote:

That is your opinion, not a fact. If two sides want peace, both need to work towards it..

Yes, and it must START with the occupier and the more powerful one.

JordyWordy

_outlaw wrote:

so far, you guys have criticized me and said "both people are at fault" and "this is not genocide." sure, those CAN be opinions, but the fact of the matter is that history and the present both have facts that present otherwise. just cause both people are at fault does not mean one is more than the other.

and this isn't "he stole my cookie so I took his lollipop," so no weak analogies, please. this is an occupation taking place, and the fact that you guys choose to focus on whether or not it is a genocide rather than whether or not Israel should withdraw from the occupied territories says a lot about yourselves.

Riiiiiiight. You seem to be lumping my posts in with other peoples.

I contested your use of Genocide. You clearly disagree. Fine.
Ive said also that Ireland is a good example of how to achieve peace in these situations....you didnt seem to like that....fine.
Mostly i have not contested most of your responses cos i mostly agree with your stance on israel shitting all over palestine. I already told you to stop filling your responses to me with anti-Israel shit, yet you keep doing it. im not arguing those points with you cos i think theyre right.

Fucks sake, why are u arguing with EVERY single point thats being made?

Yet you keep demanding an answer from me , for a "Solution".
I dont have a coherent, 10-step solution to the problem. I never suggested i did.
Im glad you think yours is great.
If you can get it to work ill be even more impressed

JordyWordy

_outlaw wrote:

Yes, and it must START with the occupier and the more powerful one.

Circular arguing gets boring. You've already stated thats your opinion. Re-typing it doesnt make it gospel.

I agree with it mostly, but try calming down.

Also, i said i cud imagine the response you'd get if you spoke publicly in a MODERATE environment. Obviously you'll fit in at a pro-palestine lobbying or whatever. The point was that if this conversation was taking place with us present with each other, you'd be the guy that shouts everyone down and skews their points.

You dont want people to suggest peace, you just want to berate us with your opinion that yours is the best

I hadnt referred to the issue of withdrawal because by saying im pro-palestine, i thought it was pretty much understood that thats what i want to see. Withdrawal from pre 67 areas though, not all of Israel. They have right to be there too. do i have to spell that out in every single fucking post i make?

fuck

JordyWordy wrote:

Ive said also that Ireland is a good example of how to achieve peace in these situations....you didnt seem to like that....fine.

I didn't seem to like it?

_outlaw wrote:

if you'd like to elaborate on your comparison to Ireland's conflict, i'd be happy to listen.

You never responded to that (Post #45), which is fine.

I dont have a coherent, 10-step solution to the problem. I never suggested i did.
Im glad you think yours is great.
If you can get it to work ill be even more impressed

thanks.

angelica

FiveB247x wrote:

That is your opinion, not a fact. If two sides want peace, both need to work towards it..

Are you saying one side cannot work towards peace independant of the other side? Even if the other side is bent on destruction?

fuck

JordyWordy wrote:

Circular arguing gets boring. You've already stated thats your opinion. Re-typing it doesnt make it gospel.

Sorry if you're bored, I'll try to be more entertaining next time.

I agree with it mostly, but try calming down.

who said I'm not calm? Is it because some words are in capitalized letters (to emphasize on them) that it means I'm not calm?

Also, i said i cud imagine the response you'd get if you spoke publicly in a MODERATE environment. Obviously you'll fit in at a pro-palestine lobbying or whatever. The point was that if this conversation was taking place with us present with each other, you'd be the guy that shouts everyone down and skews their points.

Again, you clearly know nothing about me, what I do, where I speak at, or... well, anything at all. meaningless insults really "undermine your credibility." :rolleyes:

You dont want people to suggest peace, you just want to berate us with your opinion that yours is the best

I'm sure you'd know what I want. clearly, you really want peace because you've been addressing it in your posts... oh wait, all I've seen so far is wild accusations and insults flying directly at me.

I hadnt referred to the issue of withdrawal because by saying im pro-palestine, i thought it was pretty much understood that thats what i want to see. Withdrawal from pre 67 areas though, not all of Israel. They have right to be there too. do i have to spell that out in every single fucking post i make?

am I even talking to you when I say that? I'm talking to Five.

you need to calm down.

edit: oh, and I never said withdrawal from all of Israel. In fact, no one did. I said '67 borders.

FiveB247x

Says who... you because you find a it be the necessary step? You may feel it is justified and many may agree.. but in reality, just because something is just, doesn't mean that is what will occur. In fantasy land where everyone person and nation did as they should (within law, etc) it would be the proper step, but we live in the real world, where what should be doesn't mean anything but a wish. And as the old saying goes, you can crap in one hand and wish in the other.... which do you think will fill your hand first?

_outlaw wrote:

Yes, and it must START with the occupier and the more powerful one.

JordyWordy

_outlaw wrote:

And the key point here is NOT genocide. The key point here is:
1) a comparison to how the Jews were treated in WWII. Not only genocide, but living in ghettos, imprisonment, starvation, torture, etc.
2) finding out actual solutions

none of which you have done. you've not offered a single solution. you ignore the fact that Israel has been doing MANY other things IN ADDITION to genocide. i'm not saying it's because you support Israel, but you still have been ignoring all other facts and focusing on one thing that fits whatever it is you're trying to prove.

by the way, this is the post that makes me think youre not getting me at all.
I havnt ignored what israel have done in addition to the "genocide". I didnt refer to outright, but there are reasons im pro-palestine, like i said in one of my very first posts.

Im not trying to prove shit. Im throwing out possibilities for discussion on an internet board.

Youre the one trying to prove something

fuck

FiveB247x wrote:

Says who... you because you find a it be the necessary step?

Yeah, me.

And every country in the world except for the U.S. and Israel.

JordyWordy

_outlaw wrote:

I'm sure you'd know what I want. clearly, you really want peace because you've been addressing it in your posts... oh wait, all I've seen so far is wild accusations and insults flying directly at me..

right, so i havent mentioned peace then?

_outlaw wrote:

am I even talking to you when I say that? I'm talking to Five.
you need to calm down. .

So your post which quoted me was directed at Five? ....fair enough, if you say so

_outlaw wrote:

edit: oh, and I never said withdrawal from all of Israel. In fact, no one did. I said '67 borders.

i know no one did. then again, i never said Israel didnt commit attrocities against palestinian people....so i thought spelling things out clearly might help avoid confusion from now on