Obama's Birth Certificate thing...

RolandTD20Kdrummer

RainDog wrote:

What information do you mean? That the U.S. recognizes is own citizenship laws? That pre-pubescent children do not have the legal standing to renounce their U.S. citizenship? I just figured this was all pretty common stuff.

Yes legal intricacies on citizenship is common knowledge, ask around at the corner store next time you're there, I'm sure you'll see this reality quite readily.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

Just because Indonesia didn't recognize his US citizenship, doesn't mean the US doesn't. Nice try though... he never lost his US citizenship in the United States.

Next.

Did you even know the Indonesia angle until a few moments ago?

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Did you even know the Indonesia angle until a few moments ago?

First off, stop admitting you have angles. If you cannot come at this straight ahead and have to rely on coming at things with angles, then you admit you are fighting an uphill battle where there doesn't need to be one.

"Did you even know the Indonesia angle" - come on man, are you trying to damn your own case?

Yes, I have known little about this, but know a lot more now and, again, using logic, I have realized this is all a moot point and it has absolutely zero bearing on anything related to issues today. Being if it is true, he still never gave up his US citizenship as far as the United States was or in concerned, now did he?

Again, it all is stemming from anti-Obama folks who spend, like you, most of their day i assume thinking of ways to damn Barack Obama and shadow him as an un-American who doesn't have the best interest of our country at heart. When there is nothing at all to seriously back that claim up.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

First off, stop admitting you have angles. If you cannot come at this straight ahead and have to rely on coming at things with angles, then you admit you are fighting an uphill battle where there doesn't need to be one.

"Did you even know the Indonesia angle" - come on man, are you trying to damn your own case?

Yes, I have known little about this, but know a lot more now and, again, using logic, I have realized this is all a moot point and it has absolutely zero bearing on anything related to issues today. Being if it is true, he still never gave up his US citizenship as far as the United States was or in concerned, now did he?

I find it telling that you come as high and mighty on an issue calling me all kinds of terms, and don't even know the details in the first place.

Blind partisanship if I've ever seen it. It's ridiculous.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I find it telling that you come as high and mighty on an issue calling me all kinds of terms, and don't even know the details in the first place.

Blind partisanship if I've ever seen it. It's ridiculous.

You are coming at me with "angles" about shit that makes no difference at all and has no relevance at all from web sites like obamacrimes.com.

I focus on the important issues, you focus on this trivial, frivolous shit.

So far you have had zero success in making anything that could be related to a point other than the fact that you are jumping from one anti-American frivolous claim against Obama, to another. Make up your mind, was he born in Kenya, or did he renounce his US citizenship at the age of 5? Either way, both claims are an absolute joke to the logical thinkers of the world.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

You are coming at me with "angles" about shit that makes no difference at all and has no relevance at all from web sites like obamacrimes.com.

I focus on the important issues, you focus on this trivial, frivolous shit.

So far you have had zero success in making anything that could be related to a point other than the fact that you are jumping from one anti-American frivolous claim against Obama, to another. Make up your mind, was he born in Kenya, or did he renounce his US citizenship at the age of 5? Either way, both claims are an absolute joke to the logical thinkers of the world.

Point in case your mouth speaks louder than your mind in this thread. I can't help you there.

RainDog

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Yes legal intricacies on citizenship is common knowledge, ask around at the corner store next time you're there, I'm sure you'll see this reality quite readily.

Most people would probably say that "natural born citizen parent = natural born citizen child." Most would also say that "5 - 10 year old children are too young to make life altering legal decisions." Then, I'll bet they have a general grasp of the idea that Indonesian laws hold no sway over U.S. courts.

Look, I know. You don't like the next U.S. President. You also think that it would be totally Hollywood if it turned out that he had to be thrown out of office for being a foreign national. Perhaps even imprisoned for fraud. Will Smith could play Obama and Harvey Keitel would make a wicked Berg. Hey, I'd pay to see it.

But that is simply not going to happen. These people - Berg, Keyes, Martin, Dinofrio, et. al. - are all in this for their own ends. Right now, they're only asking for donations. Next, you'll see the conspiracy books start coming out. After that, perhaps guest spots on Michael Savage. Their career opportunities are many - provided they make a "publically" convicing case now. Nevermind the statutes. Just make it sound convincing, and people will eat it up. And it just sounds so much more convincing when the target is a half-black, Indonesian schooled, former Muslim named Iraq Hussein Osama.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Point in case your mouth speaks louder than your mind in this thread. I can't help you there.

That doesn't even make any sense.

I have logically proven your fears are unfounded and unsubstantiated. You keep bouncing from one unsubstantiated anti-American claim against Obama to the next, making you look quite foolish.

RainDog

Too bad Saddam Hussein wasn't just a little smarter. Back in 2002, he could have declared George Bush to be a citizen of Iraq, and that Iraq doesn't recognize dual citizenship. The Supreme Court would then be forced, forced I say, to rule Bush ineligible to hold office, and would throw him out before he had a chance to declare war.

I never realized how easy it would be for a foreign government to bring down the White House.

unifiedscene

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Yes legal intricacies on citizenship is common knowledge, ask around at the corner store next time you're there, I'm sure you'll see this reality quite readily.

Which is why it's foolish for you to buy hook, line, and sinker into any rhetoric posted on a website called "obamacrimes" by irrelevant bloggers without ever once bothering to look into the actual law. It's also why neither Obama nor the courts really gives a flying fuck what Berg thinks he's proving... they all know he's wasting their time.

digster

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Do you feel any of these criticisms from the "far left" are false? As reported by the New York Times, not Alex Jones, FYI

I seem to remember the campaign (and ESPECIALLY the liberal loud mouths on this board) ranting AT LENGTH about his "positions" on the War in Iraq, about how he was "different", how he "spoke out against the war from the beginning", and on and on and on ... as this lady says, "blah, blah, blah", for MONTHS ...

and now all you fuckers are saying,
"show me where Obama ever said anything about being different. He's just more of the same shit, and you knew it from day one."

bullshit.
The guy tried to fool people in to thinking his stance on the War in Iraq was FUNDAMENTALY different from the ruling regime, and the military industrial complex.

Here is more of the same criticism from a "lesser" source -- Obama' Flip-Flops Anger the Liberal Base

Again,
do you really believe that he wasn't misrepresented in the primaries as something he clearly no longer is?
or what?

WHAT?

Well, there's so much there I don't know where to begin. Let's start with the second article first, which is long on huff-and-puff anger and little on facts. Upon scanning the article, I found that despite their claims of Obama's moving towards the center in the general, there was no evidence there to state he had done so. Look at his Illinois State Senate record and U.S. Senate record if you don't believe me. If the author of this piece had done so, he would have saved himself quite a bit of time. He brings up Obama's support of "faith-based organizations" as evidence that Obama has "moved to the center" in regards to religion, without offering any evidence to support the claim, because it seems that there is none. Even as a state senator, Obama allocated funds and support for faith-based organizations consistently, including 225,000 dollars for a community center run by the Catholic Church to keep kids off the streets. As far back as 2002, Obama is supportive of the death penalty in very limited circumstances (a position, by the way, I disagree with) but doubtful about it's ability to deter crime. Why am I supposed to take this article seriously if he doesn't bother to do the research that it just took me two minutes to find? Both this article and the people in the Times article base their arguments on a singular thesis (Obama is a far-left politician who completely sold out his positions when campaigning the general) that, for the most part, THEY NEVER EVEN BOTHER TO SUPPORT WITH EVIDENCE. The only claim that seems to hold any water is the warrantless-wiretapping. Considering the hell you guys are raising, with just one questionable vote it is odd to see such grandstanding.

You mention that you listened to the "liberal loud mouths" on the board who claimed that "Obama's position on the war was different from everyone else's in the race." Well, two points to make; one, in many ways it was, considering that he opposed the war at its' onset when everyone else supported it. He also opposed the surge when everyone else opposed it. But when has he been for an immediate pullout? When did he claim that he would pull out all the troops after immediately taking office? My second point is why are you taking faceless posts on message boards as gospel truth? Why don't you take some initative of your own and do your own research? 30 seconds on Obama's website shows you that he's not for nationalized health care. 30 seconds later, you'll see he opposes an immediate pullout of Iraq. You call everyone else close-minded, but according to this you seem to have based your understanding of Obama's policy positions based on the political wing of a Pearl Jam message board rather than analyzing the candidate's own policy positions that were easily accessible.

I also wonder; did you read all of the NY Times article? The author raises many of the same points I'm making now. Even the progressive at the end of the article concludes that Obama's policies are moderate and in the mainstream, whereas her policies are not.

But it's fair to say he equivocated on the wiretapping vote. I don't claim that Obama has not equivocated on any issue, or come dangerously close to lying. Take public financing for example; McCain's camp was exactly right to say he went back on his word. However, I'm also not single-minded about any particular cause or candidate to believe that my support for a candidate means I must automatically defend or believe in every word he or she has said, policy position he or she holds and every vote he or she has ever cast. You seem to have that opinion about me, and I'm not quite sure why that is; my point is that people have offered no evidence that Obama campaigned as a far-left progressive and then flip-flopped on his policies as the season wore on. He changed slightly, but this whole-hog idea that he went from Nader to Clinton is ludicrous. His policies have always been moderate, and if a far-left voter, who believes in nationalized health care and an immediate withdrawl from Iraq, voted for Obama without taking two minutes to do their own research and realize that Obama does not advocate those positions, Obama is now to be held accountable for those "promises?" That's absolutely ridiculous logic.

I still am waiting to hear what policy position, proposal, or speech made people think that Obama was a far-left politician, and not a moderate one working to end the special interest stranglehold on Washington and encourage bi-partisan work. I still haven't heard it. You're telling me the far left has an exclusive right to inspiring orators? I don't buy that, personally.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

unifiedscene wrote:

Which is why it's foolish for you to buy hook, line, and sinker into any rhetoric posted on a website called "obamacrimes" by irrelevant bloggers without ever once bothering to look into the actual law. It's also why neither Obama nor the courts really gives a flying fuck what Berg thinks he's proving... they all know he's wasting their time.

Hook line and sinker.... never did. Wow...just wow.

All I did was pose questions. This thread started out as a ruse for those with limited memory, Raindog is the only one that has interjected any sort of intelligent discourse from the Obama side.

The rest is really just mindless partisanship based on following the crowd. It really knocks home my signature.

unifiedscene

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Hook line and sinker.... never did. Wow...just wow.

All I did was pose questions. This thread started out as a ruse for those with limited memory, Raindog is the only one that has interjected any sort of intelligent discourse from the Obama side.

The rest is really just mindless partisanship based on following the crowd. It really knocks home my signature.

Nice recovery. "I was just posing questions... YOU guys are the partisan ones!" Very well played. I think what you meant is that Raindog was the only one that took the time to dig up the links to show that you've been blowing nothing but smoke with every post you made in here.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

That doesn't even make any sense.

I have logically proven your fears are unfounded and unsubstantiated. You keep bouncing from one unsubstantiated anti-American claim against Obama to the next, making you look quite foolish.

It makes perfect sense dude. You don't think even think for yourself. You hop up on a borrowed horse without knowing the details of how and when, and ride it like you own it, and with attitude.

On top of it you have the nerve to continuously call me out on crap you haven't even looked into personally. Just ridiculous.

If there's a definition of foolish you just made it in your likeness all by yourself.

It's amazing you can't see it.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

unifiedscene wrote:

Nice recovery. "I was just posing questions... YOU guys are the partisan ones!" Very well played. I think what you meant is that Raindog was the only one that took the time to dig up the links to show that you've been blowing nothing but smoke with every post you made in here.

Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.

This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .

unifiedscene

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.

This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .

Your backpedaling is transparent.

As to partisanship, I have no party allegiances. There are plenty of reasons to complain about Obama, McCain, Nader, or any other politician under the sun. This isn't one of them. Keep scouring the web, you'll find another link to become outraged about. You manage it 3-4 times a day as it is.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

It makes perfect sense dude. You don't think even think for yourself. You hop up on a borrowed horse without knowing the details of how and when, and ride it like you own it, and with attitude.

On top of it you have the nerve to continuously call me out on crap you haven't even looked into personally. Just ridiculous.

If there's a definition of foolish you just made it in your likeness all by yourself.

It's amazing you can't see it.

I don't have to read obamacrimes.com to keep up with you. Logic takes care of that. Logic has escaped every single one of your anti-American unsubstantiated claims against Obama.

Tell me that I didn't quickly read about the Indonesia claim and reasonably come to the conclusion that it is a moot point and not worth any more of my time? Yeah, that's right, I came up with that all on my own.

Considering you are the one bringing these claims from a slanted website like obamacrimes.com and touting them a fact, admitting that you are arguing from angled points, shows exactly how much you are thinking and deciding for yourself. Very little I would suspect.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.

This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .

Laughs, now that you have been proven wrong on this entire subject, not to mention the Indonesian claim; now it's all a ruse.

Laughs dude, you are a fucking joke. And you make me laugh!! That was a good one. I actually thought you believed that Obama had a forged birth certificate from Hawaii.

I am glad we are on the same page now. You know how ridiculous that claim is.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

Laughs, now that you have been proven wrong on this entire subject, not to mention the Indonesian claim; now it's all a ruse.

Laughs dude, you are a fucking joke. And you make me laugh!! That was a good one. I actually thought you believed that Obama had a forged birth certificate from Hawaii.

I am glad we are on the same page now. You know how ridiculous that claim is.

Wow...is all I can say...just wow.

my crime is what exactly?

what am I guilty of here exactly?

spell it out for me

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Wow...is all I can say...just wow.

my crime is what exactly?

what am I guilty of here exactly?

spell it out for me

Back peddling. If that was a crime, they would lock you up.

Good thing for you it is not.

I have not changed my position, but you have now claimed that this thread was a ruse. laughs dude, you are some piece or work. Good on you, you fooled me into believing that you believed what you argued in this thread. Boy, was I duped.