Obama's Birth Certificate thing...

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

so you see one view. is it okay for you that someone else sees differently, and would like to explore their perspective?

A perspective as to what's been documented as his place of birth? Give it rest.
Oh, right, I know you're next answer, "I don't expect the vast majority to agree with me." You are quite the contrarian and free thinker. You go girl.

aNiMaL

angelica wrote:

so you see one view. is it okay for you that someone else sees differently, and would like to explore their perspective?

Not when it is based off of complete fabrication of fear tactics that Obama is a Muslim terrorist and was never born in the US. No, I cannot lend anything to that being it has been proven otherwise.

Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That's all good, but It's the only outstanding claim. I disagree that providing proof in this case will not satisfy or shut down the lawsuit cold. That is what the lawsuit is all about. Some picture on a webpage is never going to be considered proof of anything. I think it's foolish for BO to even think it could be in the first place.

No, that is why the Hawaii Department of Health, who issues and maintains those records have said that it is in fact legit. Why would the HI Department of Health lie for Obama? A certified copy from the state of birth is just as valid of a birth certificate as the original one printed.

I love how you think just because someone brought a lawsuit, that means there is merit to it.

angelica

Sweet Emotion wrote:

A perspective as to what's been documented as his place of birth? Give it rest.
Oh, right, I know you're next answer, "I don't expect the vast majority to agree with me." You are quite the contrarian and free thinker. You go girl.

I know:
you are right and others are wrong, because you are colourful enough to portray things that way....

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

Not when it is based off of complete fabrication of fear tactics that Obama is a Muslim terrorist and was never born in the US. No, I cannot lend anything to that being it has been proven otherwise.

Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.

Can you point out where Berg said BO was a Muslim terrorist?

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Can you point out where Berg said BO was a Muslim terrorist?

No, but I can only assume those are his motives for bringing this up.

Can you provide some of the things I have asked for:

Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?

What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?

angelica

aNiMaL wrote:

Not when it is based off of complete fabrication of fear tactics that Obama is a Muslim terrorist and was never born in the US. No, I cannot lend anything to that being it has been proven otherwise.

Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.

It's fair to disagree. It's fair to present your case. I definitely understand if people adamantly see another perspective, and want to assert that.

what is interesting to me is when others get so adamant and go way beyond reasoned debate. it becomes no longer about politics, discussion, debate, or the effective use of logic, but about the interpersonal skill of the person 'discussing'.

unifiedscene

aNiMaL wrote:

Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?

What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?

Important point here... the American justice system requires that the ACCUSER present proof of his or her claims. Obama doesn't have to do or say a damn thing in response to this nonsense, it's up to the guy suing him to provide some proof that there is foul play. Obama satisfied the election committee and the Hawaii Dept of Health. Until this guy can provide some evidence on his side, he's got nothing.

Personally, I want Obama to provide DNA evidence, because I suspect he's an imposter and not the real Barack Obama!

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

No, that is why the Hawaii Department of Health, who issues and maintains those records have said that it is in fact legit. Why would the HI Department of Health lie for Obama? A certified copy from the state of birth is just as valid of a birth certificate as the original one printed.

I love how you think just because someone brought a lawsuit, that means there is merit to it.

BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.

But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.

RainDog

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That's all good, but It's the only outstanding claim. I disagree that providing proof in this case will not satisfy or shut down the lawsuit cold. That is what the lawsuit is all about. Some picture on a webpage is never going to be considered proof of anything. I think it's foolish for BO to even think it could be in the first place.

The lawsuit will be shut down cold when it's thrown out by the courts. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in Hawaii. As for the birth certificate itself, it will always only be a picture on a website, no matter what copy is released. The real one has been viewed by those in the know. Unless the next step is to pass the original long form birth certificate around the country for each and every citizen to view and analyze, then the case is dead.

That will never stop the conspiracy theorists, though. There will always, always be another lawsuit. Obama might as well start ignoring them now.

unifiedscene

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.

But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.

They also have the obligation to present evidence in support of their claims. That means more than just "I don't believe what you gave, I want more!"

RolandTD20Kdrummer

unifiedscene wrote:

They also have the obligation to present evidence in support of their claims. That means more than just "I don't believe what you gave, I want more!"

Berg is willing, and has provided evidence and criteria for consideration, all of it hinges on producing the original document. It's in the PDF link I posted posts above.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

RainDog wrote:

The lawsuit will be shut down cold when it's thrown out by the courts. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in Hawaii. As for the birth certificate itself, it will always only be a picture on a website, no matter what copy is released. The real one has been viewed by those in the know. Unless the next step is to pass the original long form birth certificate around the country for each and every citizen to view and analyze, then the case is dead.

That will never stop the conspiracy theorists, though. There will always, always be another lawsuit. Obama might as well start ignoring them now.

If people trusted the legal system absolute, this would be the case. It's more about good/bad PR than the lawsuit itself at this point.

Not passed around the country, just be seen officially by a judge according to the questions raised, which is what Berg is trying to do.

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

I know:
you are right and others are wrong, because you are colourful enough to portray things that way....

Invoke common sense from time to time. It simplifies a lot of life's questions.
If one were to look at the world from a more practical, pragmatic vantage,
that world might appear in form closer to it's actuality. Elevated potential can only exist when the skirmishes are done away with and energy can be focused
more directly on the problems at hand.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.

But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.

Not if they are deemed frivolous by logical thinking Americans.

I do not want my president to have to answer to these frivolous claims when I am sure you can agree, there are much bigger fish to fry.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Berg is willing, and has provided evidence and criteria for consideration, all of it hinges on producing the original document. It's in the PDF link I posted posts above.

The copy provided from the HI department of health satisfies this request.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

If people trusted the legal system absolute, this would be the case. It's more about good/bad PR than the lawsuit itself at this point.

Not passed around the country, just be seen officially by a judge according to the questions raised, which is what Berg is trying to do.

Berg is trying to waist the courts and Obama's time with this frivolous bullshit that he has absolutely no proof or reasoning to back up his ridiculous claim.

angelica

Sweet Emotion wrote:

Invoke common sense from time to time. It simplifies a lot of life's questions.
If one were to look at the world from a more practical, pragmatic vantage,
that world might appear in form closer to it's actuality. Elevated potential can only exist when the skirmishes are done away with and energy can be focused
more directly on the problems at hand.

Interesting how you are attempting to tell someone else how to think.

When you understand that others just think the way they do, then talk to me about being pragmatic and practical. Until then, you are undermining your own argument.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

aNiMaL wrote:

Not if they are deemed frivolous by logical thinking Americans.

I do not want my president to have to answer to these frivolous claims when I am sure you can agree, there are much bigger fish to fry.

Not so sure about that when the constitution is involved. It's a pretty serious claim with some grey areas attached.

It's not a "he has no time thing" by any means. I think that's an excuse flat out.

aNiMaL

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Not so sure about that when the constitution is involved. It's a pretty serious claim with some grey areas attached.

It's not a "he has no time thing" by any means. I think that's an excuse flat out.

Anyone of us can claim something against anyone else that violates the US Constitution. But unless I bring proof to back my claim up, it is deemed frivolous!! Berg has failed to do so.