I seem to remember the campaign (and ESPECIALLY the liberal loud mouths on this board) ranting AT LENGTH about his "positions" on the War in Iraq, about how he was "different", how he "spoke out against the war from the beginning", and on and on and on ... as this lady says, "blah, blah, blah", for MONTHS ...
and now all you fuckers are saying,
"show me where Obama ever said anything about being different. He's just more of the same shit, and you knew it from day one."
bullshit.
The guy tried to fool people in to thinking his stance on the War in Iraq was FUNDAMENTALY different from the ruling regime, and the military industrial complex.
Again,
do you really believe that he wasn't misrepresented in the primaries as something he clearly no longer is?
or what?
WHAT?
Well, there's so much there I don't know where to begin. Let's start with the second article first, which is long on huff-and-puff anger and little on facts. Upon scanning the article, I found that despite their claims of Obama's moving towards the center in the general, there was no evidence there to state he had done so. Look at his Illinois State Senate record and U.S. Senate record if you don't believe me. If the author of this piece had done so, he would have saved himself quite a bit of time. He brings up Obama's support of "faith-based organizations" as evidence that Obama has "moved to the center" in regards to religion, without offering any evidence to support the claim, because it seems that there is none. Even as a state senator, Obama allocated funds and support for faith-based organizations consistently, including 225,000 dollars for a community center run by the Catholic Church to keep kids off the streets. As far back as 2002, Obama is supportive of the death penalty in very limited circumstances (a position, by the way, I disagree with) but doubtful about it's ability to deter crime. Why am I supposed to take this article seriously if he doesn't bother to do the research that it just took me two minutes to find? Both this article and the people in the Times article base their arguments on a singular thesis (Obama is a far-left politician who completely sold out his positions when campaigning the general) that, for the most part, THEY NEVER EVEN BOTHER TO SUPPORT WITH EVIDENCE. The only claim that seems to hold any water is the warrantless-wiretapping. Considering the hell you guys are raising, with just one questionable vote it is odd to see such grandstanding.
You mention that you listened to the "liberal loud mouths" on the board who claimed that "Obama's position on the war was different from everyone else's in the race." Well, two points to make; one, in many ways it was, considering that he opposed the war at its' onset when everyone else supported it. He also opposed the surge when everyone else opposed it. But when has he been for an immediate pullout? When did he claim that he would pull out all the troops after immediately taking office? My second point is why are you taking faceless posts on message boards as gospel truth? Why don't you take some initative of your own and do your own research? 30 seconds on Obama's website shows you that he's not for nationalized health care. 30 seconds later, you'll see he opposes an immediate pullout of Iraq. You call everyone else close-minded, but according to this you seem to have based your understanding of Obama's policy positions based on the political wing of a Pearl Jam message board rather than analyzing the candidate's own policy positions that were easily accessible.
I also wonder; did you read all of the NY Times article? The author raises many of the same points I'm making now. Even the progressive at the end of the article concludes that Obama's policies are moderate and in the mainstream, whereas her policies are not.
But it's fair to say he equivocated on the wiretapping vote. I don't claim that Obama has not equivocated on any issue, or come dangerously close to lying. Take public financing for example; McCain's camp was exactly right to say he went back on his word. However, I'm also not single-minded about any particular cause or candidate to believe that my support for a candidate means I must automatically defend or believe in every word he or she has said, policy position he or she holds and every vote he or she has ever cast. You seem to have that opinion about me, and I'm not quite sure why that is; my point is that people have offered no evidence that Obama campaigned as a far-left progressive and then flip-flopped on his policies as the season wore on. He changed slightly, but this whole-hog idea that he went from Nader to Clinton is ludicrous. His policies have always been moderate, and if a far-left voter, who believes in nationalized health care and an immediate withdrawl from Iraq, voted for Obama without taking two minutes to do their own research and realize that Obama does not advocate those positions, Obama is now to be held accountable for those "promises?" That's absolutely ridiculous logic.
I still am waiting to hear what policy position, proposal, or speech made people think that Obama was a far-left politician, and not a moderate one working to end the special interest stranglehold on Washington and encourage bi-partisan work. I still haven't heard it. You're telling me the far left has an exclusive right to inspiring orators? I don't buy that, personally.
Which is why it's foolish for you to buy hook, line, and sinker into any rhetoric posted on a website called "obamacrimes" by irrelevant bloggers without ever once bothering to look into the actual law. It's also why neither Obama nor the courts really gives a flying fuck what Berg thinks he's proving... they all know he's wasting their time.
Hook line and sinker.... never did. Wow...just wow.
All I did was pose questions. This thread started out as a ruse for those with limited memory, Raindog is the only one that has interjected any sort of intelligent discourse from the Obama side.
The rest is really just mindless partisanship based on following the crowd. It really knocks home my signature.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Hook line and sinker.... never did. Wow...just wow.
All I did was pose questions. This thread started out as a ruse for those with limited memory, Raindog is the only one that has interjected any sort of intelligent discourse from the Obama side.
The rest is really just mindless partisanship based on following the crowd. It really knocks home my signature.
Nice recovery. "I was just posing questions... YOU guys are the partisan ones!" Very well played. I think what you meant is that Raindog was the only one that took the time to dig up the links to show that you've been blowing nothing but smoke with every post you made in here.
I have logically proven your fears are unfounded and unsubstantiated. You keep bouncing from one unsubstantiated anti-American claim against Obama to the next, making you look quite foolish.
It makes perfect sense dude. You don't think even think for yourself. You hop up on a borrowed horse without knowing the details of how and when, and ride it like you own it, and with attitude.
On top of it you have the nerve to continuously call me out on crap you haven't even looked into personally. Just ridiculous.
If there's a definition of foolish you just made it in your likeness all by yourself.
It's amazing you can't see it.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Nice recovery. "I was just posing questions... YOU guys are the partisan ones!" Very well played. I think what you meant is that Raindog was the only one that took the time to dig up the links to show that you've been blowing nothing but smoke with every post you made in here.
Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.
This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.
This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .
Your backpedaling is transparent.
As to partisanship, I have no party allegiances. There are plenty of reasons to complain about Obama, McCain, Nader, or any other politician under the sun. This isn't one of them. Keep scouring the web, you'll find another link to become outraged about. You manage it 3-4 times a day as it is.
It makes perfect sense dude. You don't think even think for yourself. You hop up on a borrowed horse without knowing the details of how and when, and ride it like you own it, and with attitude.
On top of it you have the nerve to continuously call me out on crap you haven't even looked into personally. Just ridiculous.
If there's a definition of foolish you just made it in your likeness all by yourself.
It's amazing you can't see it.
I don't have to read obamacrimes.com to keep up with you. Logic takes care of that. Logic has escaped every single one of your anti-American unsubstantiated claims against Obama.
Tell me that I didn't quickly read about the Indonesia claim and reasonably come to the conclusion that it is a moot point and not worth any more of my time? Yeah, that's right, I came up with that all on my own.
Considering you are the one bringing these claims from a slanted website like obamacrimes.com and touting them a fact, admitting that you are arguing from angled points, shows exactly how much you are thinking and deciding for yourself. Very little I would suspect.
Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.
This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .
Laughs, now that you have been proven wrong on this entire subject, not to mention the Indonesian claim; now it's all a ruse.
Laughs dude, you are a fucking joke. And you make me laugh!! That was a good one. I actually thought you believed that Obama had a forged birth certificate from Hawaii.
I am glad we are on the same page now. You know how ridiculous that claim is.
Laughs, now that you have been proven wrong on this entire subject, not to mention the Indonesian claim; now it's all a ruse.
Laughs dude, you are a fucking joke. And you make me laugh!! That was a good one. I actually thought you believed that Obama had a forged birth certificate from Hawaii.
I am glad we are on the same page now. You know how ridiculous that claim is.
Wow...is all I can say...just wow.
my crime is what exactly?
what am I guilty of here exactly?
spell it out for me
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Back peddling. If that was a crime, they would lock you up.
Good thing for you it is not.
I have not changed my position, but you have now claimed that this thread was a ruse. laughs dude, you are some piece or work. Good on you, you fooled me into believing that you believed what you argued in this thread. Boy, was I duped.
Back peddling. If that was a crime, they would lock you up.
Good thing for you it is not.
When did I ever say I bought this Berg thing outright? In fact, in another thread prior to this I openly admitted it was borderline.
Seeing as you can't legitimately come up with what my crime is here, I'll take that as an open admission to your blind partisanship, and overall high and mighty-ness factor.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
When did I ever say I bought this Berg thing outright? In fact, in another thread prior to this I openly admitted it was borderline.
Seeing as you can't legitimately come up with what my crime is here, I'll take that as an open admission to your blind partisanship, and overall high and mighty-ness factor.
I love that just because I disagreed and proved your every point wrong, that you try to pigeon hole me as being blind partisan.
That reminds me of people who come on this board (not this forum, but the other music related ones about Pearl Jam) and state something negative about Pearl Jam, and if someone disagrees with them (oddly enough this being a Pearl Jam message board) they are called ass kissers because they didn't agree with the OP.
Le6t me see if I have this straight:
I disagree with your anti-American, unsubstantiated claims against Obama. You think I don't form my own opinions because they differ from yours. You back all of your claims up with obamacrimes.com. I tell you in my own words why i think they are meaningless. I admit when I was less versed on the Indonesia subject, quickly read about it and formed my own opinion, which differs from yours. You try to use that to make the claim that none of my opinions are legit or valid, again siting something from obamacrimes.com. You then claim this entire thread was a ruse.
I love that just because I disagreed and proved your every point wrong, that you try to pigeon hole me as being blind partisan.
That reminds me of people who come on this board (not this forum, but the other music related ones about Pearl Jam) and state something negative about Pearl Jam, and if someone disagrees with them (oddly enough this being a Pearl Jam message board) they are called ass kissers because they didn't agree with the OP.
Le6t me see if I have this straight:
I disagree with your anti-American, unsubstantiated claims against Obama. You think I don't form my own opinions because they differ from yours. You back all of your claims up with obamacrimes.com. I tell you in my own words why i think they are meaningless. I admit when I was less versed on the Indonesia subject, quickly read about it and formed my own opinion, which differs from yours. You try to use that to make the claim that none of my opinions are legit or valid, again siting something from obamacrimes.com. You then claim this entire thread was a ruse.
Let me see if I got this straight. You don't know the details of something but you somehow take exalted vindication in pretending you know what you're talking about, and for those that try to bring it up in discussion...you shit all over them, and call them a slew of names and pose endless insinuations towards them.
yeap...
Yes, I understand that perfectly as you have most strikingly illustrated here today.
well done.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Let me see if I got this straight. You don't know the details of something but you somehow take exalted vindication in pretending you know what you're talking about, and for those that try to bring it up in discussion...you shit all over them, and call them a slew of names and pose endless insinuations towards them.
yeap...
Yes, I understand that perfectly as you have most strikingly illustrated here today.
well done.
You keep reading obamacrimes.com buddy. Get back to me when you have anything more worth wild to say other than blatantly trying to further your "Obama is an Anti-American" angle/argument.
You keep reading obamacrimes.com buddy. Get back to me when you have anything more worth wild to say other than blatantly trying to further your "Obama is an Anti-American" angle/argument.
It's a citizenship issue based on an outstanding legal case at the supreme court level.
Anti american?!?! Where the hell is this coming from now?
Dude, honestly what the fuck is wrong with you?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's a citizenship issue based on an outstanding legal case at the supreme court level.
Anti american?!?! Where the hell is this coming from now?
Dude, honestly what the fuck is wrong with you?
You keep flip-flopping on either he was born in Kenya or is became an Indonesia citizen and therefore dropped his US citizenship. Those are pretty anti-American campaigns towards our president-elect. Our president-elect who was born in the United States and has always retained his US citizenship.
Just because a case is taken to court, doesn't mean it has any merit. Maybe things are different in your country.
You keep flip-flopping on either he was born in Kenya or is became an Indonesia citizen and therefore dropped his US citizenship. Those are pretty anti-American campaigns towards our president-elect. Our president-elect who was born in the United States and has always retained his US citizenship.
Just because a case is taken to court, doesn't mean it has any merit. Maybe things are different in your country.
I never brought up Kenya at any point in this thread, or anywhere really, so I have no idea where, or why, you're saying I keep flip flopping over it. The only thing I have done here is try to open up a discussion on something that seems to be a grey for a lot of people based on the amount of internet coverage it is receiving.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
And I think why this matter hasn't been cleared up from the top just as surprising.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I never brought up Kenya at any point in this thread, or anywhere really, so I have no idea where, or why, you're saying I keep flip flopping over it. The only thing I have done here is try to open up a discussion on something that seems to be a grey for a lot of people based on the amount of internet coverage it is receiving.
By you bringing up this thread as a serious topic for discussion you gave credit to the notion that his birth certificate was possibly forged from Hawaii department of health and that he was born on Kenya, not in the US as his birth certificate states. And you got your thread topic and opinion from obamacrimes.com.
And I think why this matter hasn't been cleared up from the top just as surprising.
do you even read the links you put up?
did you read thisone? if so please hilight exactly your concerns from that article... please cut and paste them directly and tell me your problem with it
And I think why this matter hasn't been cleared up from the top just as surprising.
Because it is not an issue at all. That is funny that you posted that link because that is what I read hours ago when we started this.
And again, so you don;t worry and panic:
"Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen."
So again, what's the problem or what are your fears as a Canadian about our president-elect at one time having duel citizenship when he was around 5 years old?
So again, what's the problem or what are your fears as a Canadian about our president-elect at one time having duel citizenship when he was around 5 years old?
Because it is not an issue at all. That is funny that you posted that link because that is what I read hours ago when we started this.
And again, so you don;t worry and panic:
"Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen."
So again, what's the problem or what are your fears as a Canadian about our president-elect at one time having duel citizenship when he was around 5 years old?
You put words in my mouth at every turn, honestly it's getting pathetic.
I asked you for clarification on Indonesia...I guess you have amnesia if you read that article hours before the conversation started and went off on the obamcrimes.com tangent despite knowing better (apparently). It just further proves my point.
The entire issue revolves around the constitution and citizenship.
What part are you still not able to understand about that?
I'm really beginning to wonder at this point.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You put words in my mouth at every turn, honestly it's getting pathetic.
I asked you for clarification on Indonesia...I guess you have amnesia if you read that article hours before the conversation started and went off on the obamcrimes.com tangent despite knowing better (apparently). It just further proves my point.
The entire issue revolves around the constitution and citizenship.
What part are you still not able to understand about that?
I'm really beginning to wonder at this point.
You never asked me for clarification on Indonesian. You said:
"Did you even know the Indonesia angle until a few moments ago?"
I never said I read the article hours before our conversation started. i read that when you told me to Google "Obama Indonesia citizen" or something like that....which was hours ago.
And what exactly is your point because i have asked you several questions that you never seem to be able to answer, yet you continue to spew the same crap over and over again. Go back and answer some of my questions.
you cant even answer simple questions... you just spin around and around and listen to your own echo chamber
again, the link you posted in response to me... click and paste it, then hilight the areas of concern
and quite frankly, being an american citizen, i think i have a grasp on the United States Of America's constitution... speaking of which, why would you, a candian citizen, post a picture of MY countries constitution? pretty lame
OMG EVERYONE>>> OBAMA WAS DUAL CITIZEN WHEN HE WAS 5 YEARS OLD AND LIVING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!! OMG THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END
what a joke
i see now why it has gone 12 pages... roland is full of shit, everyone calls him on it, and he continues to listen only to his own echo chamber and post WEAK responses and one liners
you cant even answer simple questions... you just spin around and around and listen to your own echo chamber
again, the link you posted in response to me... click and paste it, then hilight the areas of concern
and quite frankly, being an american citizen, i think i have a grasp on the United States Of America's constitution... speaking of which, why would you, a candian citizen, post a picture of MY countries constitution? pretty lame
OMG EVERYONE>>> OBAMA WAS DUAL CITIZEN WHEN HE WAS 5 YEARS OLD AND LIVING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!! OMG THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END
what a joke
i see now why it has gone 12 pages... roland is full of shit, everyone calls him on it, and he continues to listen only to his own echo chamber and post WEAK responses and one liners
He has yet to answer a single direct question I have asked him. Not a single one.
You never asked me for clarification on Indonesian. You said:
"Did you even know the Indonesia angle until a few moments ago?"
I never said I read the article hours before our conversation started. i read that when you told me to Google "Obama Indonesia citizen" or something like that....which was hours ago.
And what exactly is your point because i have asked you several questions that you never seem to be able to answer, yet you continue to spew the same crap over and over again. Go back and answer some of my questions.
Ok so then you do admit to not knowing about Indonesia but following along with the status quo based on what you believe to be true (that's blind partisanship by default which I've pointed out twice now). Your only valid argument with me is that I did not know all the details of the case...either did you, but it's my fault for not knowing and understanding everything from top to bottom to begin with.
Man...it's like pulling teeth just to get you to see the simple reality of your actions, and why I said what I said at the time (blind partisanship...which it is). You on the other hand have had a rather colorful array of derogatory terms to say about me to the point of putting words in my mouth over and over again, and even making stuff up (Kenya).
your mind is so far removed from the logistical and factual aspects of this discussion, that it's pointless to continue.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
Well, there's so much there I don't know where to begin. Let's start with the second article first, which is long on huff-and-puff anger and little on facts. Upon scanning the article, I found that despite their claims of Obama's moving towards the center in the general, there was no evidence there to state he had done so. Look at his Illinois State Senate record and U.S. Senate record if you don't believe me. If the author of this piece had done so, he would have saved himself quite a bit of time. He brings up Obama's support of "faith-based organizations" as evidence that Obama has "moved to the center" in regards to religion, without offering any evidence to support the claim, because it seems that there is none. Even as a state senator, Obama allocated funds and support for faith-based organizations consistently, including 225,000 dollars for a community center run by the Catholic Church to keep kids off the streets. As far back as 2002, Obama is supportive of the death penalty in very limited circumstances (a position, by the way, I disagree with) but doubtful about it's ability to deter crime. Why am I supposed to take this article seriously if he doesn't bother to do the research that it just took me two minutes to find? Both this article and the people in the Times article base their arguments on a singular thesis (Obama is a far-left politician who completely sold out his positions when campaigning the general) that, for the most part, THEY NEVER EVEN BOTHER TO SUPPORT WITH EVIDENCE. The only claim that seems to hold any water is the warrantless-wiretapping. Considering the hell you guys are raising, with just one questionable vote it is odd to see such grandstanding.
You mention that you listened to the "liberal loud mouths" on the board who claimed that "Obama's position on the war was different from everyone else's in the race." Well, two points to make; one, in many ways it was, considering that he opposed the war at its' onset when everyone else supported it. He also opposed the surge when everyone else opposed it. But when has he been for an immediate pullout? When did he claim that he would pull out all the troops after immediately taking office? My second point is why are you taking faceless posts on message boards as gospel truth? Why don't you take some initative of your own and do your own research? 30 seconds on Obama's website shows you that he's not for nationalized health care. 30 seconds later, you'll see he opposes an immediate pullout of Iraq. You call everyone else close-minded, but according to this you seem to have based your understanding of Obama's policy positions based on the political wing of a Pearl Jam message board rather than analyzing the candidate's own policy positions that were easily accessible.
I also wonder; did you read all of the NY Times article? The author raises many of the same points I'm making now. Even the progressive at the end of the article concludes that Obama's policies are moderate and in the mainstream, whereas her policies are not.
But it's fair to say he equivocated on the wiretapping vote. I don't claim that Obama has not equivocated on any issue, or come dangerously close to lying. Take public financing for example; McCain's camp was exactly right to say he went back on his word. However, I'm also not single-minded about any particular cause or candidate to believe that my support for a candidate means I must automatically defend or believe in every word he or she has said, policy position he or she holds and every vote he or she has ever cast. You seem to have that opinion about me, and I'm not quite sure why that is; my point is that people have offered no evidence that Obama campaigned as a far-left progressive and then flip-flopped on his policies as the season wore on. He changed slightly, but this whole-hog idea that he went from Nader to Clinton is ludicrous. His policies have always been moderate, and if a far-left voter, who believes in nationalized health care and an immediate withdrawl from Iraq, voted for Obama without taking two minutes to do their own research and realize that Obama does not advocate those positions, Obama is now to be held accountable for those "promises?" That's absolutely ridiculous logic.
I still am waiting to hear what policy position, proposal, or speech made people think that Obama was a far-left politician, and not a moderate one working to end the special interest stranglehold on Washington and encourage bi-partisan work. I still haven't heard it. You're telling me the far left has an exclusive right to inspiring orators? I don't buy that, personally.
Hook line and sinker.... never did. Wow...just wow.
All I did was pose questions. This thread started out as a ruse for those with limited memory, Raindog is the only one that has interjected any sort of intelligent discourse from the Obama side.
The rest is really just mindless partisanship based on following the crowd. It really knocks home my signature.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Nice recovery. "I was just posing questions... YOU guys are the partisan ones!" Very well played. I think what you meant is that Raindog was the only one that took the time to dig up the links to show that you've been blowing nothing but smoke with every post you made in here.
It makes perfect sense dude. You don't think even think for yourself. You hop up on a borrowed horse without knowing the details of how and when, and ride it like you own it, and with attitude.
On top of it you have the nerve to continuously call me out on crap you haven't even looked into personally. Just ridiculous.
If there's a definition of foolish you just made it in your likeness all by yourself.
It's amazing you can't see it.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Uhm check the first post...you're fishing without a hook bro.
This whole thread was a ruse. Amazing how the partisan hatred surfaces .
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Your backpedaling is transparent.
As to partisanship, I have no party allegiances. There are plenty of reasons to complain about Obama, McCain, Nader, or any other politician under the sun. This isn't one of them. Keep scouring the web, you'll find another link to become outraged about. You manage it 3-4 times a day as it is.
Tell me that I didn't quickly read about the Indonesia claim and reasonably come to the conclusion that it is a moot point and not worth any more of my time? Yeah, that's right, I came up with that all on my own.
Considering you are the one bringing these claims from a slanted website like obamacrimes.com and touting them a fact, admitting that you are arguing from angled points, shows exactly how much you are thinking and deciding for yourself. Very little I would suspect.
Laughs dude, you are a fucking joke. And you make me laugh!! That was a good one. I actually thought you believed that Obama had a forged birth certificate from Hawaii.
I am glad we are on the same page now. You know how ridiculous that claim is.
Wow...is all I can say...just wow.
my crime is what exactly?
what am I guilty of here exactly?
spell it out for me
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Good thing for you it is not.
I have not changed my position, but you have now claimed that this thread was a ruse. laughs dude, you are some piece or work. Good on you, you fooled me into believing that you believed what you argued in this thread. Boy, was I duped.
When did I ever say I bought this Berg thing outright? In fact, in another thread prior to this I openly admitted it was borderline.
Seeing as you can't legitimately come up with what my crime is here, I'll take that as an open admission to your blind partisanship, and overall high and mighty-ness factor.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
That reminds me of people who come on this board (not this forum, but the other music related ones about Pearl Jam) and state something negative about Pearl Jam, and if someone disagrees with them (oddly enough this being a Pearl Jam message board) they are called ass kissers because they didn't agree with the OP.
Le6t me see if I have this straight:
I disagree with your anti-American, unsubstantiated claims against Obama. You think I don't form my own opinions because they differ from yours. You back all of your claims up with obamacrimes.com. I tell you in my own words why i think they are meaningless. I admit when I was less versed on the Indonesia subject, quickly read about it and formed my own opinion, which differs from yours. You try to use that to make the claim that none of my opinions are legit or valid, again siting something from obamacrimes.com. You then claim this entire thread was a ruse.
Let me see if I got this straight. You don't know the details of something but you somehow take exalted vindication in pretending you know what you're talking about, and for those that try to bring it up in discussion...you shit all over them, and call them a slew of names and pose endless insinuations towards them.
yeap...
Yes, I understand that perfectly as you have most strikingly illustrated here today.
well done.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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It's a citizenship issue based on an outstanding legal case at the supreme court level.
Anti american?!?! Where the hell is this coming from now?
Dude, honestly what the fuck is wrong with you?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Just because a case is taken to court, doesn't mean it has any merit. Maybe things are different in your country.
I never brought up Kenya at any point in this thread, or anywhere really, so I have no idea where, or why, you're saying I keep flip flopping over it. The only thing I have done here is try to open up a discussion on something that seems to be a grey for a lot of people based on the amount of internet coverage it is receiving.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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this trash went 12 pages?
this place has gone down hill big time
Yeah man...you're telling me.
Then I see articles like this http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656
And I think why this matter hasn't been cleared up from the top just as surprising.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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do you even read the links you put up?
did you read thisone? if so please hilight exactly your concerns from that article... please cut and paste them directly and tell me your problem with it
thanks, i cant wait to see this garbage
And again, so you don;t worry and panic:
"Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen."
So again, what's the problem or what are your fears as a Canadian about our president-elect at one time having duel citizenship when he was around 5 years old?
:cool:
You put words in my mouth at every turn, honestly it's getting pathetic.
I asked you for clarification on Indonesia...I guess you have amnesia if you read that article hours before the conversation started and went off on the obamcrimes.com tangent despite knowing better (apparently). It just further proves my point.
The entire issue revolves around the constitution and citizenship.
What part are you still not able to understand about that?
I'm really beginning to wonder at this point.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Constitution_Pg1of4_AC.jpg
:cool:
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
"Did you even know the Indonesia angle until a few moments ago?"
I never said I read the article hours before our conversation started. i read that when you told me to Google "Obama Indonesia citizen" or something like that....which was hours ago.
And what exactly is your point because i have asked you several questions that you never seem to be able to answer, yet you continue to spew the same crap over and over again. Go back and answer some of my questions.
what a joke
you cant even answer simple questions... you just spin around and around and listen to your own echo chamber
again, the link you posted in response to me... click and paste it, then hilight the areas of concern
and quite frankly, being an american citizen, i think i have a grasp on the United States Of America's constitution... speaking of which, why would you, a candian citizen, post a picture of MY countries constitution? pretty lame
OMG EVERYONE>>> OBAMA WAS DUAL CITIZEN WHEN HE WAS 5 YEARS OLD AND LIVING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!! OMG THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END
what a joke
i see now why it has gone 12 pages... roland is full of shit, everyone calls him on it, and he continues to listen only to his own echo chamber and post WEAK responses and one liners
Ok so then you do admit to not knowing about Indonesia but following along with the status quo based on what you believe to be true (that's blind partisanship by default which I've pointed out twice now). Your only valid argument with me is that I did not know all the details of the case...either did you, but it's my fault for not knowing and understanding everything from top to bottom to begin with.
Man...it's like pulling teeth just to get you to see the simple reality of your actions, and why I said what I said at the time (blind partisanship...which it is). You on the other hand have had a rather colorful array of derogatory terms to say about me to the point of putting words in my mouth over and over again, and even making stuff up (Kenya).
That's just sad.
btw...
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=6037941&postcount=123
your mind is so far removed from the logistical and factual aspects of this discussion, that it's pointless to continue.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")